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aggle-rithm
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Questions about the petition |
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I was just looking at the petition, and I had a few questions:
To: UK Government and Media
We, the undersigned, believe that the 9-11 Commission has ‘failed’ in its mandate to provide an independent, impartial, “full and complete accounting” of the attacks of September 11, 2001. We believe the Commission is wrong in crucial respects and the available evidence indicates that US officials authored or facilitated the attacks and their cover-up. We demand full disclosure and accountability through a further independent investigation. We demand answers to the questions. We seek the truth.
Sincerely,
1. Is the 9-11 Commission's investigation the only one that has been carried out? The makers of all the documentaries have done NO investigating?
2. If what you want is an OFFICIAL investigation, then why ask for an independant one? Do you have any organization in mind that would conduct this investigation?
3. If this new investigation uncovers nothing out of the ordinary, will the truth movement accept it, or will they keep calling for ANOTHER investigation until they get the result they want?
4. If you wouldn't accept anything other than a conclusion that US officials were involved, then why? If the involvement of US officials has already been confirmed, then why do you need an investigation?
Just asking questions. |
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marky 54
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| blah blah blah. well you dont seem to think theres a reason for another investigastion. so why do you need to know. just keep on spouting your nonsense and dont worry about it. or would it damage you if you were wrong on any points and this is what your scared of? |
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aggle-rithm
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: | | blah blah blah. well you dont seem to think theres a reason for another investigastion. so why do you need to know. just keep on spouting your nonsense and dont worry about it. or would it damage you if you were wrong on any points and this is what your scared of? |
It would not damage me at all. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. However, the chances of me being wrong are very, very slim.
I assume you have no answers to these questions? Have you ever considered any of them, or do you consider it pointless to carefully examine the demands you are making? |
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marky 54
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| if it wouldnt hurt you whats the problem with a reinvestigation to prove all us CT'ers wrong? and yes i consider those questions however, regardless of what you think, i think as do others that the whole truth hasnt been told. and i consider the answers to put the whole matter to rest to be more important. and i dont care who right and whos wrong. i just want the things im thinking or seeing when seeing stuff to be proved right or wrong. and not by a critic who would gladly kick the nonsense out of anyone for thinking the offical story is wrong. |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: | | if it wouldnt hurt you whats the problem with a reinvestigation to prove all us CT'ers wrong? and yes i consider those questions however, regardless of what you think, i think as do others that the whole truth hasnt been told. and i consider the answers to put the whole matter to rest to be more important. and i dont care who right and whos wrong. i just want the things im thinking or seeing when seeing stuff to be proved right or wrong. and not by a critic who would gladly kick the nonsense out of anyone for thinking the offical story is wrong. |
...but you didn't address any of my questions...!
You say I have a problem with reinvestigation, but you have no idea what kind of investigation you want, or who would perform it, or anything you would need to consider before anyone would take you seriously in making such a demand. |
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marky 54
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| but thats not for me as an individual to choose who, fact is i dont care who as long as they are neutral to the bush administration,the critics ie: popualr mechanics, and the truth movement. who ever investigated should be given freedom to reasearch any document , evidence and access to any witness they need. just a fair investigastion. it would have to be an american investigastion obviously, as im not from america i carnt say which type of organisation could do this, or the pratices involved to set it up. maybe a panel of respected people could do it, ie: judges,professors,experts in certain fields like demolition experts,fire chief,construction expert ect. ect all putting there points together. but not people that could of be implemented in 9/11(if a conspiracy had took place) or in anyway had anything to do with 9/11 research to have been influanced into a decission before hand. |
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John White
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. Is the 9-11 Commission's investigation the only one that has been carried out? The makers of all the documentaries have done NO investigating? |
Hmmm from "questions arn't evidance" to "asking questions equals an investigation". No that doesnt make sense. The 911 Commision is the only attempt at a credible enquirey that has happened so far: and it failed
Answers are what are needed: and answers require the use of Law to get the facts vested interests do not want to share
| Quote: | | 2. If what you want is an OFFICIAL investigation, then why ask for an independant one? Do you have any organization in mind that would conduct this investigation? |
Thats easy enough: to prevent another whitewash and expose the Truth. An international commission seems rather likely, possibly coming from Europe, possible the UN: my preference would be a US commission operating with an unrestricted remit, with the power to seize documents, force officials to etstify under oath, and with the whole thing live online. If wishes were horses, eh?
| Quote: | | 3. If this new investigation uncovers nothing out of the ordinary, will the truth movement accept it, or will they keep calling for ANOTHER investigation until they get the result they want? |
How can one specualte ahead of the findings of the commision? If it was another whitewash, then the job of getting the truth wouldnt be done: should we all then go home? I dont know the answer to that, and nobody honest does I suspect. the point is, that the questions must be answered credibly
| Quote: | 4. If you wouldn't accept anything other than a conclusion that US officials were involved, then why? If the involvement of US officials has already been confirmed, then why do you need an investigation?
Just asking questions. |
For your first part, well lets see if the new commission can get credible answers for what happened with NORAD, with prior knowledge, and with all the mountain of questions about the funding and protection of the terrorists, the links to the ISI and all the other connections, and see if no US Officials come out the other end facing criminal charges.
Do you accept the involvement of US officials has been confirmed already Aggle-Rythm?
Obviously not (from your stance on site).
Well then, now you know why a commision is required: to establish if that is fact. To penetrate this bubble of denial. And to return some sanity and dignity to American society, and through extension, all the world
(I would say place a bet at Ladbrooks, but in the new police state britian that can get your collar felt, and I'd hate to encourage you to commit a crime. regardless, you know where my fiver's going)
Why is that important?
Justice for the dead: And preventing the deaths to come of thousands upon thousands of others if we dont nip this nightmare in the bud before WW III
Out of interest, and as a little aside, would you like to apologise to the people of Iraq for the massacre of the people, (including the horrendous use of DU and white phosperous) and the destruction of the infrastructure of the country in an illegal war with no basis in any fact whatsoever?
Or is all that OK by you?
'cos Bush couldnt have done it without 911
And he knew 911 was coming: The Jersey Girls have already shown that very clearly, outside of the blanket denial of the credulous and the culpable
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aggle-rithm
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: |
Hmmm from "questions arn't evidance" to "asking questions equals an investigation". No that doesnt make sense. The 911 Commision is the only attempt at a credible enquirey that has happened so far: and it failed
Answers are what are needed: and answers require the use of Law to get the facts vested interests do not want to share
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This is why I consider most conspiracy theorists to be intellectual cowards. They are researching, they are compiling evidence, they are building theoritical models, they are conducting experiments, but they are not investigating? Poppycock. They are simply trying to avoid having to defend their indefensibly weak position by saying that it's up to "someone else" to do the real investigation.
| Quote: | Thats easy enough: to prevent another whitewash and expose the Truth.
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So you already know that the truth is being witheld? More on this later.
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How can one specualte ahead of the findings of the commision?
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You seem pretty sure that there is an ongoing coverup. That's why I ask, what would be your reaction if a new commission finds no evidence of this?
| Quote: | | If it was another whitewash, then the job of getting the truth wouldnt be done: should we all then go home? I dont know the answer to that, and nobody honest does I suspect. the point is, that the questions must be answered credibly |
You're begging the question, assuming that there IS a whitewash in the first place. I thought the new investigation was supposed to determine whether or not there was a coverup, not determine the nature of an assumed coverup?
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For your first part, well lets see if the new commission can get credible answers for what happened with NORAD, with prior knowledge, and with all the mountain of questions about the funding and protection of the terrorists, the links to the ISI and all the other connections, and see if no US Officials come out the other end facing criminal charges.
Do you accept the involvement of US officials has been confirmed already Aggle-Rythm?
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This depends on what you mean by "involvement". If you mean KNOWING involvement, rather than being duped by al Qaeda operatives such as Ali Mohammed, then I say no, I see no evidence of this.
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Well then, now you know why a commision is required: to establish if that is fact. To penetrate this bubble of denial.
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What is there to deny, if the fact of internal involvement hasn't been determined?
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Out of interest, and as a little aside, would you like to apologise to the people of Iraq for the massacre of the people, (including the horrendous use of DU and white phosperous) and the destruction of the infrastructure of the country in an illegal war with no basis in any fact whatsoever?
Or is all that OK by you?
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False dilemma. Either I'm personally responsible for the war in Iraq or I fully support it. I don't think so.
Also, do you really believe that what the US troops are doing in Iraq right now is to destroy the infrastructure? Do you think they were better off with Saddam Hussein?
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And he knew 911 was coming: The Jersey Girls have already shown that very clearly, outside of the blanket denial of the credulous and the culpable |
He knew when the attacks would be, and where they would be? Or did he have intelligence that something MIGHT happen sometime in the nebulous future?
Do you think if Bush had taken IMMEDIATE action when he was briefed in August, that change would have come quickly enough to prevent 9/11 from happening? |
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Andrew Johnson
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wepmob2000
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Like it or not folks, the sad fact of the matter is the truth movement has missed its boat. The fifth anniversary of the attack was the last opportunity upon which it could reasonably make an impact.
Next major anniversary is the 10th one, by which time the attacks will hardly register in the public consciousness, they may get a couple of pages in papers with no real news that day. Every day that passes is another nail in the coffin for the truth movement, as its relevance lessens.
Its a shame for the thoughtful people out there (and on this board) who do genuinely want to discover the truth whatever it is. But for those for whom its only another opportunity to jump on the anti-Western-power bandwagon, I won't be losing any sleep...... |
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John White
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Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thats more than a little premature WebMop. Iran is the nexus point
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wepmob2000
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | Thats more than a little premature WebMop. Iran is the nexus point |
Hi John
I do in all honesty now think thats debatable, maybe its in the Bush administrations wishlist, but with the Iraq debacle and the slowly increasing confidence in Russia, I believe we may see no further adventures on the part of Mr Bush.
Valiant though they may be, the truth campaigns efforts until now have barely registered as a blip in the public consciousness. I do admire people such as yourself who do seem genuinely committed to the truth (even though I may disagree with some of what you say), but I can't see any way this movement will take the step forward it needs unless it undergoes a major overhaul in most respects....
I stopped posting here for a while as the arguments seem merely circular, with a new generation of posters every few weeks to maintain the ceaseless arguing over the same things. The question does need to be asked and addressed, what is needed to take the campaign to the next level? |
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Well I'll explain a little more... if Iran doesnt happen,the Bush admin will be neutered politically and the PNAC will stall, perhaps permanently... that may or may not be good news, plenty more sharks in the international sea. The USA,in its bid for Emprie, is only doing what any other nation would at least have a good lust over the prospect of: Its just that it has the power to try. Many great Nations have broken their own spines reaching too far... Germany, France...Rome of course
However,if Iran does spark off, thats where we will see if 9/11 truth has done enough at creating permission to question in the general population... if it has, then popular pressure may be enough to scupper the War effort... becuase the people will not believe the Lie .No war has ever been possible in such circumstances: the people have to believe or they will not bleed for the state. Of course this depends on the levels of domestic fear. Another False Flag may tip people back over the edge of patriotic paranoia
If Iran goes ahead and the popular pressure isnt enough to halt the War, then thats China and Russia drawn in and 9/11 will, I am very sorry to say, be the least of our problems....
So if we are still pushing for a new commision in 5 years time,it will only be becuase a "compromise" amongst the Elite stopped the expansion of the War of Terror to give us the luxury of being able to do so...
Right now it all depends on what the NeoCons are prepared to risk (and what others are prepared to try and force)
Events this year will have generated some stained underwear IMO: "they" do read the newspapers and poll results...
And all people of good conscience can but do there best to obtain justice for everyone
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Aggle-rithm: being as the thread has bumped back up, I will do a detailed reply to your last post: pushed for time right now, apologies and regards
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TimmyG
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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aggle.. what the * are you talking about?
yes we all do our own investigations. BUT THAT INVESTIGATION GOES AS FAR AS VIEWING INFORMATION IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN and possibly writing/emailing people.
we need an independent investigation which has access to classified information on things like able danger. an independent investigation where people are rigorously questioned in a court of law. an independent investigation where government officials can't simply dismiss or ignore our questions by saying 'shut up. we are protecting you against terrorists'
and it needs to be an investigation which is recognized by the mainstream media as such. anything that is in opposition to the establishment view is usually automatically dismissed
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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" |
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aggle-rithm
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: | aggle.. what the * are you talking about?
yes we all do our own investigations. BUT THAT INVESTIGATION GOES AS FAR AS VIEWING INFORMATION IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN and possibly writing/emailing people.
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Truth-seekers in the US could use the freedom of information act to get access to additional information -- but they don't. They could consult with experts in the fields of structural engineering, aviation, etc. -- but they don't. In fact, any information that is at odds with their pre-conceived beliefs is rejected out of hand.
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we need an independent investigation which has access to classified information on things like able danger. an independent investigation where people are rigorously questioned in a court of law.
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But then it wouldn't be independent! A court of law would mean involvement of the evil government.
| Quote: | an independent investigation where government officials can't simply dismiss or ignore our questions by saying 'shut up. we are protecting you against terrorists'
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So all classified information should be de-classified, not just within the confines of the investigation, but made public? I doubt the truth movement would be satisfied with anything less. And I don't think it would be a very good idea, creating a situation where al Qaeda operatives could simply turn on C-SPAN and find out what secret moves the US is making against them.
But I forget -- you ASSUME that al Qaeda is not a threat. This brings up a question once again: If you already know, why do you need an investigation?
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and it needs to be an investigation which is recognized by the mainstream media as such. anything that is in opposition to the establishment view is usually automatically dismissed
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That is not why it is dismissed. It is dismissed because journalists have a smidge of integrity, and they do not report stories that are unlikely to be true.
When was the last time you saw a news report that said the Earth was hollow and George Bush was a reptile in disguise? Do you really think this information was suppressed because it is "in opposition to the establishment view"? No. It's because it's stupid, and they would look foolish if they reported it.
What you really want in an affirmation of your own views. You want someone in authority to take you seriously, even though most CT'ers I talk to think everyone in authority, including the news media, is in on the plot. This "independent investigation" is a fantasy. It's never going to happen, and you know it's not. It CAN'T happen, because when it confirms all the major points of the 911 Commission (and it will), the truth movement will simply say it's conclusions are flawed and ANOTHER investigation is needed. |
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TimmyG
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Truth-seekers in the US could use the freedom of information act to get access to additional information -- but they don't. They could consult with experts in the fields of structural engineering, aviation, etc. -- but they don't. In fact, any information that is at odds with their pre-conceived beliefs is rejected out of hand.
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they don't do they?
from 911blogger.com
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Osama bin Laden “confession video” unplugged
"...On July 18, 2006 the United States Department of Defense received an amended Freedom of Information Act request made to it by the Muckraker Report. In this Muckraker Report FOIA request, the Department of Defense was asked to provide documents “related to the discovery of the December 13, 2001 Osama bin Laden video”; “that demonstrate chain of custody of the December 13, 2001 Osama bin Laden video from the time it was discovered in Afghanistan until it was released for media consumption”; “that reflect the purchase order and contract made by the U.S. government with George Michael, Diplomatic Language Services, and Dr. Kassem M. Wahba, Arabic language program coordinator, School of Advanced International Studies, John Hopkins University”; that demonstrate the authenticity process that the U.S. government undertook to authenticate the December 13, 2001 Osama bin Laden video”; and “that demonstrate the outcome of the U.S. government’s authenticity process.”
On Wednesday, September 13, 2006 the Muckraker Report received a response from the Department of Defense. Remember, the Department of Defense issued the press release that accompanied the release of this videotape. It also is the Department in the direct chain of command of the U.S. forces that allegedly obtained the videotape in Jalalabad, Afghanistan in late November 2001. This is the official response from the Department of Defense:
The Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs conducted a search of its files and located no records responsive to your request.
Please note that the Department of Defense is now on record as saying that it conducted a search of its files and located no records responsive to the Muckraker Report’s FOIA request to document the circumstances, logistics and dates surrounding the discovery of the videotape, nor has the Department of Defense located records demonstrating the authenticity process and authenticity of the December 13, 2001 Osama bin Laden “confession video” – a video that the U.S. government used to fully solidify already strong American support for the invasion of Afghanistan that began 68 days prior to the video’s release..."
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others have done the same thing. , i think its a very good idea .
infact, if you had being paying attention to us crackpot truthseekers you'd have noticed that quite recently someone from this forum was successful in obtaining the black box of flight 77 data, which co-incidently shows a flight path which is very different from what cctv frames shows us.
when did i say alkaeda is not a threat? i think their murderous intentions are real. i just don't think they could pull something as huge as this without inside help. there is evidence to suggest this is the case.
i certainly don't think everyone in the media and the establishment is in on the plot! most probably only the people at the very top will be. Bill Crystal at fox news is a PNAC member for gods sake. there really are no grounds for dismissing the notion of the existance of a government controlled media as lunacy. it doesn't mean that reporters are 'in on it'
mainstream journalists in this country have spoken to members of the truth movement privately to say that they think 9/11 is probably an inside job but to give the movement crediblity in their publication would be 'journalistic suicide'
how would the earth being hollow or george bush being a reptile be beneficial to PNAC and the american elite? you are comparing these ideas to the fact that 9/11 was very beneficial to these people. this is clearly documented in the pnac 'rebuilding americas defences' paper. false flag terror events are part of history. why wouldn't the current administration be involved in any? are they too nice to ever do such a thing?
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DaveyJ
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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"mainstream journalists in this country have spoken to members of the truth movement privately to say that they think 9/11 is probably an inside job but to give the movement crediblity in their publication would be 'journalistic suicide' "
but of course you cant prove this, beacuse it would end there career
conicidentally god just spoke to me and told me he is the one true god, id love to show you the tape of it, but you'know he dosnt want to end all the other religons careers.
Saying that printing evidence detailing the 9/11 concspiracy would be "journalistic suicide" is the biggest load of nonsense ive heard on this forum, and belive me, thats some title. To print the details behind the 9/11 inside job, would be single handedly the BIGGEST STORY OF ALL TIME, they would have the best scoop in media history, nay, all human history as we know it. they wouldnt be commiting career suicide, they would be making their career immortal.
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chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveyJ wrote: | "mainstream journalists in this country have spoken to members of the truth movement privately to say that they think 9/11 is probably an inside job but to give the movement crediblity in their publication would be 'journalistic suicide' "
but of course you cant prove this, beacuse it would end there career
conicidentally god just spoke to me and told me he is the one true god, id love to show you the tape of it, but you'know he dosnt want to end all the other religons careers.
Saying that printing evidence detailing the 9/11 concspiracy would be "journalistic suicide" is the biggest load of nonsense ive heard on this forum, and belive me, thats some title. To print the details behind the 9/11 inside job, would be single handedly the BIGGEST STORY OF ALL TIME, they would have the best scoop in media history, nay, all human history as we know it. they wouldnt be commiting career suicide, they would be making their career immortal. |
This is a great point.
It will fly over these people's heads, though, because they don't recognize the difference between printing evidence detailing the 9/11 conspiracy and printing baseless accusations stemming from insinuations, false inferences, and mangled half-truths. |
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TimmyG
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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yes it would be a massive story wouldn't it.
what do you think about the bush rape case of 2002.. and Margie Schoedinger's alleged suicide (not that i'm saying it wasn't suicide). do you not think that would have sold a few newspapers?
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DaveyJ
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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thats it, thats best you can do. The reason that the articals printed about this didnt win any nobel prizes for Journlism is beacuse the whole case was a joke, she was her own legal representivatve. See had no evidence, nothing to support her claims, so in that respect i can see the comparison 
but if someone had proof/evidence then maybe we could of seen an article of a life time
its funny thats your refrence, for people intrested in the novelty of the case please visit
- http://www.counterpunch.org/carter1220.html
remember they were trying to sue him for 50mil beacse the President and his men are accused of repeatedly kidnapping, drugging and raping Mrs. Schoedinger and possibly her husband.
seriously you guys, try googleing your own sources before using them
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Toyota SZ engine specifications
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TimmyG
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Posts: 489
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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she was most probably a nutter. but i still think it should have made bigger news than it did
i'm really tired of debating this with you guys. there's no doubt that governements have a significant control of the media. look at what happened to charlie sheen when he spoke out about 9/11.. GAY PEDOPHILE SHEEN FREQUENtS STRIP BARS AND LOOKS AT PORN WHAT A SICKO appearing all over the msm network.. no mention of 9/11 in most of the articles.
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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" |
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chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TimmyG wrote: | | she was most probably a nutter. but i still think it should have made bigger news than it did |
You think unfounded libel should make big news? Why? To encourage everyone with a grudge to start making up horrible things about their enemies in the hopes of it becoming big news?
Is that what the 9/11 Truthiness Movement is all about? Smearing the Bushies? |
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