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bratcat808 Minor Poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Tiny rock in big water
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: Need Help and Suggestions PLEASE??? |
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Aloha
How do you deal with the frustration of enormous apathy and complacency? I know I am OK at writing but not the best public speaker... but I have found myself frustrated by the lack of interest and the excuses people give for not even looking into this, much less taking action.
With the draft of the New Patriot Act in motion, and the subsequent bill regarding the defiance of the Geneva Codes on conduct also on the table, I am actually very concerned. Combine this with the congressional recess for a month+ starting next week until after the “elections”, and the need for the republicans to remain in control, and I find it more than a little disturbing… Rove's comment about October does not ease my concern >_>
I have set up a forum, passed out materials, and talked to many... yet… the bottom line is that people turn away from the facts in favor of the more “comfortable” official lines. They are “too busy” and feel they are not personally affected by the events (as they do not see the correlations) and many flatly reject making any effort to learn or act on these very important issues.
How do you reconcile your own feelings about the apathetic attitude that seems prevalent? As well, have you found any methods to reach these people that will break down the walls of denial and complacency?
I came across 4 firefighters who were sitting in a local Starbucks, and approached them. Two were mildly receptive, one complacent, and one refusing to even consider the possibility of alternative explanations. I would have thought that ALL would have been more receptive, given that they are in public service and could have been the ones put in harms way by events like 9/11.
Although I know that I am in no way an expert on any of the issues, I also feel that given the level of complacency I am finding, that the current administration will continue to be able to manipulate this country into a police state that is already becoming even more hated by much of the rest of the world for it’s arrogance and aggression.
Some argue that it “cannot happen” as the Constitution protects us. Others claim that the checks and balances built into our political process will prevent the progression of power to exclusive levels. Others claim that Bush has only two more years in office, so how much can he really do? Unfortunately, much more than they can apparently imagine… (albeit, he is an idiot puppet of others >_> )
It is frightening to me to know that the very things the apathetic say cannot happen, ARE happening and they do not seem to be aware or interested enough to care. Of course, they WILL care when it is so apparent they can no longer ignore it, but by then, they will have fewer resources and outlets in which to contest it.
I have a teen daughter and noted the new Patriot Act includes the re-integration of the draft, and to include females as well this time. Though aware and concerned, she is also a teen who is naturally more focused on “teen issues” such as the dance next week and the social plights of her friends. Her boyfriend is equally but differently aligned, in that he claims all politicians are idiots and is in the camp of “this cannot happen because our Constitution says it cannot.” Unlike my generation, teens today do not seem to be very interested in politics or the bigger picture of the effects of policies on their futures.
So, can you help me filter all of this and remain sane and stable to hopefully reach more people with this issue? I do not want to see further deterioration of our rights and freedoms that so many take for granted. I do not want my daughter subjected to the draft (I grew up in the era of Vietnam) and I do not want the people of other nations to believe that Bush is the representative of our values or of what most feel is a different form of “democracy” than what he tries to impose on them.
Help?
Thank you very much
Lani
PS: I have written to about a dozen other sites inquiring about link exchange.. none have responded.. _________________ 9/11 Truth
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." T. Jefferson |
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telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Need Help and Suggestions PLEASE??? |
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bratcat808 wrote: | Aloha
How do you deal with the frustration of enormous apathy ......blah, blah, blah.....of our values or of what most feel is a different form of “democracy” than what he tries to impose on them.....
.....none have responded.. |
Can you precis what you have written above into one simple paragraph saying what the problem is and what you want to do about it? _________________ I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Need Help and Suggestions PLEASE??? |
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[quote="telecasterisation"] bratcat808 wrote: | Aloha
How do you deal with the frustration of enormous apathy ......blah, blah, blah.....of our values or of what most feel is a different form of “democracy” than what he tries to impose on them.....
.....none have responded.. |
Okay, you want suggestions - precis what you have written above into one simple paragraph saying what the problem is and what you want to do about it? _________________ I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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bratcat808 Minor Poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Tiny rock in big water
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Need Help and Suggestions PLEASE??? |
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[quote="telecasterisation"] telecasterisation wrote: | bratcat808 wrote: | Aloha
How do you deal with the frustration of enormous apathy ......blah, blah, blah.....of our values or of what most feel is a different form of “democracy” than what he tries to impose on them.....
.....none have responded.. |
Okay, you want suggestions - precis what you have written above into one simple paragraph saying what the problem is and what you want to do about it? |
Not meant to offend, but I believe I made my concerns clear. I do not see how re-defining them to your specifications would increase the odds of you offering insight.
The request to encapsulate and re-define in specified format suggests that, rather than offering advice on the issues I brought up, that a challenge of sorts is proposed as to the legitimacy of the concerns.
Despite the need for cool logic, careful examination of facts, and yes, challenge of the issues and conclusions is essential in the issues concerning 9/11 and resulting effects, emotional responses are normal and human, and also need to be addressed and given consideration.
These are the issues I am asking about... emotional reactions, apathy, complacency, and my own frustrations in dealing with these reactions. In reality, if we actually could reduce all of this down to sound logic and careful analysis, then we would have no debate, as the issues would not exist. The evidence would logically be entered and conclusions and explanations succinct. They are not...
Emotional responses are the basis in the manipulations of the masses, and key in influencing change. Failure to incorporate this into the strategy to raise awareness and inspire others to take notice would be a major error in our efforts to effect policy or reach those who are already heavily sedated by such tactics by "official" news and explanations. _________________ 9/11 Truth
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." T. Jefferson |
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Bufordt06 Minor Poster
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 29
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Most people don't care becuase they think if its true then it would have been headline news, most people don't understand how the media blackout big issues. Thats the biggest barrier. _________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing |
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bratcat808 Minor Poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Tiny rock in big water
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Bufordt06 wrote: | Most people don't care becuase they think if its true then it would have been headline news, most people don't understand how the media blackout big issues. Thats the biggest barrier. |
Then my question would be how to overcome that barrier? If the propaganda of the far right is so strong, then how best to counter that? It cannot be an insurmountable task, but tactics are crucial in delivering a message.. so...
What is it that "they" do to convince the masses the sky is pink and grass is purple? What can we do, personally and collectively, to re-insert reality to the view?
Catch phrase? Cool logo? A 'motto' that is memorable or theme song that sticks on the brain? I know that the things I just suggested are trite and commercial and right out of marketing spins, but... despite logical and intellectual examinations and evidence that is extremely compelling, people still are not motivated to pay attention.
Perhaps some middle ground of incorporation of some of the techniques used to sell the "official line" might be useful to to 'sell' the truth? Can't say I know what those specific techniques might be, but as I do know that majority of the people I have encountered respond much more emotionally than logically, then some consideration of this might prove helpful?
I was just thinking, and yes, it hurts a bit sometimes! _________________ 9/11 Truth
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." T. Jefferson |
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suspecta Minor Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 87
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I find the sentence '9-11 was an inside job' said with completely calm certainty usually causes a double-take or a good 'spluttering into the coffee' moment. They may not believe you at first but they'll go away and think about it whether they intended to or not, or whether they're prepared to admit it. Give it a couple of weeks to settle, then lend them a dvd.
Suspecta |
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telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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suspecta wrote: | I find the sentence '9-11 was an inside job' said with completely calm certainty usually causes a double-take or a good 'spluttering into the coffee' moment. They may not believe you at first but they'll go away and think about it whether they intended to or not, or whether they're prepared to admit it. Give it a couple of weeks to settle, then lend them a dvd.
Suspecta |
I believe we have surpassed such revelationary moments, to suggest that 9/11 was an inside job to the majority of people in the western world is now old news. I haven't met anyone in the past six months where, having broached the subject, they have not at least been exposed to it in some form.
The way the world and society has evolved as a culture, plus the use of CGI in movies, means we have lost any sense of 'wonder' and it is extremely difficult to 'surprise' or even shock the average person. There aren't many scenarios you can concoct that haven't been slapped together in some previous form before.
Although I am not a christian, I believe that as we no longer have any real cohesive bonds, society has become far more fragmented, there is no coming together at weekends, there is no unity or bonding like there used to be. Religion as I knew it as a child going to Sunday school, has gone. We tend to live a more isolated family existence but I don't view our uncaring persona as apathy or complacency as such, it is a lack of the fear we once had.
The question I struggle to satisfy when asked, is what do people do once they have accepted 9/11 was an inside job? There will come a point where all the receptive have assimilated and decided - but this means nothing without a plan - to simply say that we hold another investigation means what?
The Truth Movement doesn't appear to have a plan as such, it is just pump out information = but to what end? I acknowledge the sentiment, but not the goals. I have been there from the beginning, but we appear aimless, the entire nation gets to believe we were duped, okay, then what - we write letters to our MP? People need to know we have a structured path - we don't. _________________ I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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bratcat808 Minor Poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Tiny rock in big water
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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telecasterisation wrote: | suspecta wrote: | I find the sentence '9-11 was an inside job' said with completely calm certainty usually causes a double-take or a good 'spluttering into the coffee' moment. They may not believe you at first but they'll go away and think about it whether they intended to or not, or whether they're prepared to admit it. Give it a couple of weeks to settle, then lend them a dvd.
Suspecta |
I believe we have surpassed such revelationary moments, to suggest that 9/11 was an inside job to the majority of people in the western world is now old news. I haven't met anyone in the past six months where, having broached the subject, they have not at least been exposed to it in some form.
The way the world and society has evolved as a culture, plus the use of CGI in movies, means we have lost any sense of 'wonder' and it is extremely difficult to 'surprise' or even shock the average person. There aren't many scenarios you can concoct that haven't been slapped together in some previous form before.
Although I am not a christian, I believe that as we no longer have any real cohesive bonds, society has become far more fragmented, there is no coming together at weekends, there is no unity or bonding like there used to be. Religion as I knew it as a child going to Sunday school, has gone. We tend to live a more isolated family existence but I don't view our uncaring persona as apathy or complacency as such, it is a lack of the fear we once had.
The question I struggle to satisfy when asked, is what do people do once they have accepted 9/11 was an inside job? There will come a point where all the receptive have assimilated and decided - but this means nothing without a plan - to simply say that we hold another investigation means what?
The Truth Movement doesn't appear to have a plan as such, it is just pump out information = but to what end? I acknowledge the sentiment, but not the goals. I have been there from the beginning, but we appear aimless, the entire nation gets to believe we were duped, okay, then what - we write letters to our MP? People need to know we have a structured path - we don't. |
I totally agree with this. There is one aspect not mentioned here though, about the outright rejection of the possibility by those who cannot grasp such a horrible notion as to believe they were duped by their own government. To admit that it could be possible, let alone true, is to allow the very foundation of much of their world to be jackhammered. (Figuratively) they would rather cover their eyes and run away yelling lalalala so as not to hear what you might say, than to allow the potential to shake up their personal sense of security.
Yes, we do need a plan for action that is comprehensive. This is essential for appeal of the truth to be accepted, but also to focus on how to we plan to deal with results of that acceptance and hold accountable those who have committed these crimes.
Assuming we do eventually make the difference, and the truth is exposed, this will shake up many institutions and government systems across the globe. What plan is there to deal with this potential? The entrenched forces that were able to facilitate this will not go away or willingly 'surrender' simply because they have been exposed. Factions will develop and political and social circles will be divided, at the least with no small amount of civil conflict, at the worst, actual civil war.
So... not only do we need to address the plan for revealing the truth, but consider strategies to deal with the results of the efforts. _________________ 9/11 Truth
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." T. Jefferson |
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alkmyst Moderate Poster
Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: Structured Path |
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Telecaster' wrote:
Quote: | People need to know we have a structured path - we don't. |
Precisely ... and, for the time being, this is one of the most significant strengths of the 9/11 Truth Campaign.
Meanwhile, we all need to get off your asses and get away from our keyboards to put more of our energy in spreading the word.
How many screenings of Loose Change II or similar have you organised?
How many public meetings have you arranged to draw attention to the issue?
Did you attend the recent Truth Gathering in Brixton?
If the answer to any of the above is 'None' or 'No', WTF are you doing banging on about structure?
Al K Myst |
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telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Structured Path |
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Quote: | Precisely ... and, for the time being, this is one of the most significant strengths of the 9/11 Truth Campaign.
Meanwhile, we all need to get off your asses and get away from our keyboards to put more of our energy in spreading the word.
How many screenings of Loose Change II or similar have you organised?
How many public meetings have you arranged to draw attention to the issue?
Did you attend the recent Truth Gathering in Brixton?
If the answer to any of the above is 'None' or 'No', WTF are you doing banging on about structure? |
Thanks for responding, however, having stated that;
..this is one of the most significant strengths of the 9/11 Truth Campaign.
...you simply avoid saying why? This could be for many reasons, but my immediate thought is that it is a kneejerk reaction with no basis in fact. So much in these type of forums is said but not backed up and this is a shining example. If you have a counter argument, then supply detail.
You then ask a question and conclude the response, knocking the nail home with abbreviated bad language.
I have personally spent in excess of £300 on blank DVD's onto which I copied 'Loose Change 2', 'Painful Deceptions' and '911 in Plane Sight', that I then distributed in central Bristol. I have attended three 'awareness' type gatherings, two were absolutely awful. I have five daughters and am under strict instructions not to spend another penny on 'that crazy nonsense'.
As for Brixton, my wife's father died unexpectedly in the week preceding the event and she took it very badly. To simply leave her alone was not prudent.
Besides which, this a 9/11 forum and we can 'bang on' about anything associated with 9/11, there are no provisos or conditions regarding our actions away from the keyboard.
I repeat my point again and perhaps this time you could attempt to supply a more coherent answer;
In the UK, The Truth Movement is attempting the spread the word that 9/11 was an inside-job. What is the ultimate goal, what is the culmination of that - what happens when everyone believes it was a setup - what do we all do then??
It is not a criticism, I simply don't have an answer when I am asked. Detail it for me. _________________ I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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Bicnarok Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 334 Location: Cydonia
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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The fact is most people are to pre-occupied and hide themselves behind walls.
Most humans are lazy creatures, why listen to something which may lead you to worry, or even take action. when you can ignore it and relax under the blanket of illusion.
The sad fact is its the famous "Blue/Red pill" (Matrix) dillemma, and lets face it the majority of people would take the blue pill, and in fact are doing.
A while back on TV they staged some women getting assaulted by some nasty looking bloke in broad daylight. How many people do you think tried to help the woman?
1 Person in the whole week, the majority looked away and ignored it.
The world is full of Ostriches, free thinkers are rare and lonely. _________________ "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind..." Bod Marley |
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