Holocaust or Holohoax..?

[blackbear]

Video: David Cole at Auschwitz Now directly linked, a must see video. Watch as a young Jew demolishes the standard notion of the Holocaust, highlighting its contradictions and flaws with logic and clarity. An hour long video of absolutely essential viewing More ...

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/link.asp?ID=5249&URL=http://vho.org/dl  /ENG/DavidColeatAuschwitz.wmv

You decide....

Don't forget the pipeline...!

[telecasterisation]

[suspecta]

This is a 9-11 site, not a Holocaust denial site! Maybe some details of the Holocaust have been exaggerated but for heavens sake millions of Jews and others died - you only have to look at the Yad Vashem site to see the numbers.

For the record I looked up my own family members (Slovakians and Viennese) and found dozens of them, all the names accurate. My mother knew most of them and they all disappeared some time after 1938. Would any Holocaust-deniers here like to explain what might happened to them? They certainly didn't top themselves.

Oh OK they died of natural causes in the camps, 'as you do'. No gassings - they just died because they were systematically starved, or they caught terrible diseases that nobody bothered to treat them for. So that kind of makes it OK? Why were they there in the first place? You got it in one - they were forcibly dragged from their homes and shipped off there because of their race.

And hang on a minute, what about the survivors who remember the selections? Oh OK they're all liars! Even the few survivors I've met who told me personally - all liars. OK, if you say so. Or not as the case may be.

Look, please get this into your heads - Holocaust deniers are at heart anti-Semites who don't want to know that Jews may have ever suffered en masse - they'd rather see Jews as aggressors because it fits better with their mindset. There really is no place for Holocaust denial on a 9-11 site - it just gives us a bad name and tars us with the far right. And we wonder why Jon Ronson gives this place a wide berth.

As it happens I think it may well be time for Jews to stop focussing so all-encompassingly on the Holocaust and realise that they too, or at least Israelis, can be the perpetrators of terrible war, as in the occupied territories and in Lebanon. I personally feel ashamed of what's gone on and am a signatory to 'Jews for Justice for Palestinians' as it happens. I've fallen out with many fellow-Jews on thsi subject, or we have to agree to differ. I'm also quite sure that Mossad have been up to no good for a long time. But none of this means it's OK to turn round and start denying the Holocaust - it's a gross insult to those who were there and to those who lost countless family members at the hands of the Nazis.

Quite frankly I would have loved to have had a large extended family in Vienna, in Bratislava and in Banska Bystrica but unfortunately they were all shipped off to Theresienstadt and Auschwitz.

Suspecta

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

Have just watched this in full.

Clearly the Holocaust is as big a lie as 911.

On the basis of this can we believe anything in the history books?

If you still believe there was a holocaust - you won't if you watch this

[suspecta]

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

[James C]

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

[wepmob2000]

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

I watched the video

The forensic tests on the alleged gas chamber at Auschwitz showed negligible amounts of the gas. However the delousing chambers showed large amounts of gas.

The official explanation for this was that the alleged extermination chambers were only used for 20 minutes a day.

The problem with this is that the gas chambers would need to be used around the clock 24/7 to kill the numbers they say were murdered.

[suspecta]

Look, whatever may or may or not have happened, vast numbers of Jews were forcibly removed from their homes and subsequently died horrible deaths. However you look at it, it was ethnic cheansing on a huge scale. My mother was forcibly removed from her home and my cousin brutally beaten by the Nazis for no other crime than being Jewish.

This is a site for the debate of issues around 9-11. If it starts descending into Holcaust denial we will lose large numbers of potential supporters. If you want to discuss the Holocaust by all means go and do it, but please - not here because you'll only tar us with a far-right anti-semitic brush. Not very helpful.

Suspecta

[Bushwacker]

[brian]

This subject like 911 brings emotional rather than rational responses.

To question what is meant by "The Holocaust" is not, as many perceive it, Holocaust denial.

The documentary, as does other bodies of evidence, certainly lends credence to the claim that the Holocaust as we have been led to believe it to mean is more propoganda than fact.

That IS NOT to say the Jewish people did not suffer under the Nazi regime or that they did not die in large numbers because of it. They did, as did millions of non Jews, but the claim it was a systematic and deliberate genocide of Jews is contentious.

This Red Cross report below appears to an example which I have not seen discredited -

A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust'
By The Red Cross

The Jews And The Concentration Camps:
No Evidence Of Genocide

http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm

[wepmob2000]

[kbo234]

deleted

[adam1]

Message to Moderators:
With respect to the persons posting and debating on this subject, I really suggest that some clear guidelines are established as to the relevance of each thread.
This is not a chatroom - this is a site dedicated to exposing the truth about 9/11.
There are 1000s of conspiracy theories out there, and they may all be true. However, I have signed up because I believe in the potential of the 9/11 movement.
As much as the Holocaust may be an important subject, unless we remain focussed, then our goals are unlikely to be achieved, and unless the moderators concur, then I will be withdrawing my energy from this website.
Thanks.

[suspecta]

Oh right, now you're suggesting Anne Frank didn'twrite the diary. Get your facts straight for heavens sake:

[Ally]

[suspecta]

And now we have a poster, Adam, threatening to leave.

As in the search for truth re 9-11, who gains?

Who gains from people leaving this site in disgust? Not 9-11 Truth, that's for sure.

Suspecta

[zappasearcher]

I have just watched the video in full and saw another one like it on google a few weeks ago.

In my opinion this presenter offers no SOLID evidence to say that the'holocaust' was untrue.

It is at least admitted that 5% of the Zyklon B was used for homicidal purposes (and I'm damn sure they had quite a stash of it) so people were gassed in concentration camps - FACT!

Due to rumours, post-war chaos, propaganda from all areas it is impossible to say how many died and in which way. No doubt many were lined up at trenches and shot rather than gassing. If the soviets cocked or made up the figures as is portrayed then how do we know the revisionists are correct, years after the fact?

The word holocaust is itself erroneous though. holo comes from greek - whole and the whole jewish race didn't die, you could say it was an 'attempted holocaust'.

Regarding the soap bit, the presenter mentions investigations after the war that found them to be rumours. why didn't he mention the name of these investigations? Again, no solid evidence.

I doubt what we are told about the nazis are true 100%. we aren't told about who backed hitler are we?

The idea that the nazis used all that zyklon-b just for the health of the prisoners and even built them a swimming pool is just plain sick too. I think this is propaganda.

[iro]

the holocaust was taken advantage of to ensure Israel was set up. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but the figures and the myths were no doubt exaggerated. The 6 million thing is completely admitted openly as being wrong.

still, holocaust denial is madness

[James C]

[xmasdale]

Why are we discussing holocaust denial on a 9/11 truth site?

This is both off topic and likely to damage the reputation of this site.

Noel

[iro]

[John White]

We do allow discussion of this topic at Illusions

Other than this peice of information, I will not feed discussion here, its unnessacary

[kbo234]

Yes you're all right. This stuff shouldn't be here. Just deleted previous post.

[Ignatz]

[Ally]

[brian]

The responses are illuminating.

The Reichstag fire is tossed around as if it shows Sept 11 was an inside job yet when someone raises the idea that The Holocaust, as we have been led to believe it, is a lie and offers evidence to support it all hell breaks loose and shock and horror is declared or feigned.

We know Sept 11 is a lie, we know many other examples of received wisdom are lies and constantly invoke them yet when one of the most powerful and influential aspects of recent history is questioned it is taboo.

History never started on Sept 11 and lies are what we are up against. To think such a subject as the Holocaust is unconnected to Sept 11 is naive and disingenuous.

The Zionist connection to Sept 11 is glaring yet it if raised is often attacked on the grounds of being anti semitic which is underpinned these days by the Holocaust which in turn makes certain questions or thoughts unnaceptable.

This was clearly seen in the attack on Professor Jones on the flimsiest of pretexts -

"After interviewing Jones for a brief 20 minutes, Fabrizio said goodbye to Jones and turned the remainder of the hour over to a discussion of conspiracy theories with two Jewish professors, a Robert Goldberg from the University of Utah and Gary Fine from Northwestern.

The first caller was a William Tumpowsky, chairman of the Jewish Community Relations Council and board member of the local Israeli-fund raising organization, the United Jewish Federation. Tumpowsky charged that Jones' was using code language to make anti-Semitic allegations. Goldberg supported this accusation."
http://www.rense.com/general73/ZZIBN.HTM

I agree this may not be the best place to discuss it but lets not condemn what may be honest endevour.

THETRUTHWILLSETU3 did not start the thread and his question - what can we believe in history books is valid.

This eloquent plea puts Holocaust denial in perspective -

http://www.australiafreepress.org/articles/ursula_haverbeck.htm

[Andrew Johnson]

This thread has been locked because it is so contentious. Posters can PM each other or start a group to discuss it at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/

It may be reopened again - not sure. Please consider taking 9/11 Truth issues out to the wider world rather than arguing the toss over this here.

Some things you could do instead

e-mail some journalists or academics about WTC Destruction
Print out 3 or 4 leaflets (see campaigning thread) and leave them in a pub or give them to a stranger