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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Would Lisa Jefferson Even Know If She Was Lying? |
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| chek wrote: | Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe this would help her decide.
Or maybe not.
And hell, by now she's been on Oprah.
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html#coroner_bodies
Pay particular attention to the known authentic 'plane crash' photos and the blowing up old ammo photos.
STOP PRESS: The model of digital camera the alleged and totally unexpected 'smoking plane' photo was taken with (thus showing it looks nothing like a plane crash) has now been found to have IMAGE EDITING SOFTWARE on it, and is therefore not to be trusted.
The fact that the 'image editing software amounts to panning and cropping is entirely unconvenient, but hopefully the implication is enough to mislead any passers by that in 2001 a digital equivalent of Pixar Studios was bundled with the camera.
This aspect of 911 was completely new to me yesterday, yet already on even cursory examination it stinks, and this regime is building 'History' on it.
Ah well, you know what they say about anything built on weak foundations. |
Having spoken to killtown on numerous ocassions (and yes, having visited his site, too), his website is the last place I would go if I wanted accurate and unbiased information about anything. |
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chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Would Lisa Jefferson Even Know If She Was Lying? |
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| aggle-rithm wrote: | | chek wrote: | Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe this would help her decide.
Or maybe not.
And hell, by now she's been on Oprah.
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html#coroner_bodies
Pay particular attention to the known authentic 'plane crash' photos and the blowing up old ammo photos.
STOP PRESS: The model of digital camera the alleged and totally unexpected 'smoking plane' photo was taken with (thus showing it looks nothing like a plane crash) has now been found to have IMAGE EDITING SOFTWARE on it, and is therefore not to be trusted.
The fact that the 'image editing software amounts to panning and cropping is entirely unconvenient, but hopefully the implication is enough to mislead any passers by that in 2001 a digital equivalent of Pixar Studios was bundled with the camera.
This aspect of 911 was completely new to me yesterday, yet already on even cursory examination it stinks, and this regime is building 'History' on it.
Ah well, you know what they say about anything built on weak foundations. |
Having spoken to killtown on numerous ocassions (and yes, having visited his site, too), his website is the last place I would go if I wanted accurate and unbiased information about anything. |
Of course. And by extension all data is therefore suspect and only a fool etc. yada yada yada. We know how it goes. |
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stateofgrace
Moderate Poster
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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 These guys believe killtown Bhahahaha.
Hey to any lurkers out there killtown is also a holocaust denier.
Yes I know killtown he's regular poster over a jref. Why don't read up on his rubbish over there and see how it simply pulled apart.This photograph as nothing whatsoever to do with Lisa jefferson, it is the only photograph taken of the smoke plume from Flight 93 after it had crashed.
Please chek, if killtown is the best you can do, leave this thread now and close the door on the way out.
Now,no more tangents .Answer the question.
Is Lisa Jefferson lying yes/no? |
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SHERITON HOTEL
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I can well understand SOG or any 911Inside job denyer not wanting to answer the question...were the Pentagon telling the truth when they said they had NO CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon, immediately post 9/11? it is a rhetorical question. Like I said you'd have to be a mind reader to answer SOG's question or at least be able to cross examine Lisa Jefferson, the official flight 93 story is, like the whole 911 official story, is shot full of holes. |
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Arkan_Wolfshade
Minor Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 31
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Would Lisa Jefferson Even Know If She Was Lying? |
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| chek wrote: | | Of course. And by extension all data is therefore suspect and only a fool etc. yada yada yada. We know how it goes. |
All of killtown's data, yes. It all amounts to an argument from incredulity. He clearly knows nothing about crash-scene investigation, physics, or anything else he would have to know in order to have an informed opinion about anything he comments upon.
He doesn't understand that when the coroner says there are no bodies, he is not saying there was no one on the plane, he is saying the bodies were destroyed in the crash.
He doesn't understand how a 500+ MPH crash would tend to pulverize anything larger than a breadbox and less sturdy than an anvil.
He doesn't understand that a light object such as a piece of paper or a bandana will not hit the ground with the same force as say, a human body.
He is willfully ignorant, and I have yet to see him write anything that is the slightest bit credible. |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | I can well understand SOG or any 911Inside job denyer not wanting to answer the question...were the Pentagon telling the truth when they said they had NO CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon, immediately post 9/11? it is a rhetorical question. Like I said you'd have to be a mind reader to answer SOG's question or at least be able to cross examine Lisa Jefferson, the official flight 93 story is, like the whole 911 official story, is shot full of holes. |
How about these questions?
Do you have reason to believe that the Pentagon was or was not telling the truth when they said they had no CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon?
Do you have reason to believe that Lisa Jefferson did or did not lie? |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| aggle-rithm wrote: | | SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | I can well understand SOG or any 911Inside job denyer not wanting to answer the question...were the Pentagon telling the truth when they said they had NO CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon, immediately post 9/11? it is a rhetorical question. Like I said you'd have to be a mind reader to answer SOG's question or at least be able to cross examine Lisa Jefferson, the official flight 93 story is, like the whole 911 official story, is shot full of holes. |
How about these questions?
Do you have reason to believe that the Pentagon was or was not telling the truth when they said they had no CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon?
Is this a serious question?
Do you have reason to believe that Lisa Jefferson did or did not lie? |
There are reports that flight 93 was evacuated prior to its alleged downing by the passengers confronting the "hijackers" so its Lisa Jeffersons word against the word of those allege the former. |
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stateofgrace
Moderate Poster
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | aggle-rithm wrote: | | SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | I can well understand SOG or any 911Inside job denyer not wanting to answer the question...were the Pentagon telling the truth when they said they had NO CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon, immediately post 9/11? it is a rhetorical question. Like I said you'd have to be a mind reader to answer SOG's question or at least be able to cross examine Lisa Jefferson, the official flight 93 story is, like the whole 911 official story, is shot full of holes. |
How about these questions?
Do you have reason to believe that the Pentagon was or was not telling the truth when they said they had no CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon?
Is this a serious question?
Do you have reason to believe that Lisa Jefferson did or did not lie? |
There are reports that flight 93 was evacuated prior to its alleged downing by the passengers confronting the "hijackers" so its Lisa Jeffersons word against the word of those allege the former. |
So you do believe that Lisa Jefferson could be lying?
The fact that this was entered in evidence is the Zacarias Moussaoui trial and accepted by the jury as fact is now in question?
Do you beleive that Zacarias Moussaoui may now be behind bars because Lisa Jefferson could have lied?
Should she be prosecuted if she is lying and maybe stand trial herself?
Todd Beamer’s wife accepts and believes Lisa Jefferson 100%, should she be informed that you believe she may have lied?
Can you tell us why Lisa Jefferson may have lied?
Do you believe it is for fame or fortune?
Incidentally you have also failed to address this question.
Are you accusing Lisa Jefferson of being a neocon? |
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Andrew Johnson
Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1919
Location: Derbyshire
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | ........were the Pentagon telling the truth when they said they had NO CCTV security footage of whatever hit the Pentagon, immediately post 9/11? |
Did the Pentagon say that? |
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chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew Johnson wrote: | |
You're right of course Andrew. As an aside - because Shanksville is not an area I ever looked into before - isn't it interesting how nothing - not one single aspect of 911- is how it is meant to appear?
You'd expect that alone to be a wake up call. But like they say, it's impossible to wake up somebody pretending to be asleep.
And yet I don't recall a bunch of conspiracy theories about the Concorde crash, the Herald of Free Enterprise ferry disaster or many others. |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: |
There are reports that flight 93 was evacuated prior to its alleged downing by the passengers confronting the "hijackers" so its Lisa Jeffersons word against the word of those allege the former. |
There are also reports of little green men on Mars. Should we take them at face value? |
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stateofgrace
Moderate Poster
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| chek wrote: |
You're right of course Andrew. As an aside - because Shanksville is not an area I ever looked into before - isn't it interesting how nothing - not one single aspect of 911- is how it is meant to appear?
You'd expect that alone to be a wake up call. But like they say, it's impossible to wake up somebody pretending to be asleep.
And yet I don't recall a bunch of conspiracy theories about the Concorde crash, the Herald of Free Enterprise ferry disaster or many others. |
Of course Andrew is right, Andrew is a super star.
And just maybe you should look at what happened on this flight and exactly what you the deniers are up against. The question was Is Lisa Jefferson lying, not one of you has had the courage to say she is. Not one of you has had the nerve to stand by the outraged theory there was no hijackers on board this plane. You have dismissed Lisa Jefferson like you dismiss all the other calls. For you I will do the research and show you all what you dismiss in favour of idiotic and stupid no hijacker theories.
Deena Burnett was waking up at her home in San Ramon, Calif. She'd gone down to the kitchen to fix breakfast for her three daughters. The phone rang. She recalls it was around 6:20 a.m. -- 9:20 Eastern time.
It was Tom.
"Are you all right?" she asked.
"No. I'm on United Flight 93 from Newark to San Francisco. The plane has been hijacked. We are in the air. They've already knifed a guy. There is a bomb on board. Call the FBI."
Deena Burnett dialed 911.
Jeremy Glick picked up a GTE Airfone just before 9:30 a.m. and called his in-laws in the Catskills. His wife, Lyz, and daughter, Emerson, were visiting
He described the men as Arabic-looking, wearing red headbands, carrying knives. One told passengers he had a bomb. Most passengers had been forced to the rear of the cabin. Glick's mother-in-law went to another phone and dialed 911. As Jeremy and Lyz spoke, New York state police patched in on the call.
Around 9:30, Deena Burnett's phone rang again. It was Tom.
"He didn't sound frightened, but he was speaking faster than he normally would," she said. He told her the hijackers were in the cockpit.
Alice Hoglan was visiting her sister-in-law, Kathy Hoglan, in Saratoga, Calif., when the phone rang. It was 9:42 Eastern time. Kathy's nephew, Mark Bingham was on the line. "Alice, talk to Mark," Kathy said, handing her the phone. "He's been hijacked."
Todd Beamer was near the rear of the plane, trying to use his company's Airfone account. For some reason, he couldn't get authorization for the call. Finally, he was routed to a Verizon customer service center in Oakbrook, Ill.
He told the operator his airliner had been hijacked. He was patched through immediately to Lisa Jefferson, a Verizon supervisor.
Beamer told Jefferson he was sitting next to a flight attendant. He could see three hijackers, armed with knives. One insisted he had a bomb. Twenty-seven of the passengers had been herded to the rear of the plane, where the hijacker with the bomb was guarding them, he said. Two hijackers were in the cockpit. A fourth was in first class.
In Fort Myers, Fla., Lorne Lyles didn't hear the phone ringing. He'd worked the night shift and had lain down to sleep at 7:30. At 9:47 a.m., the answering machine picked up a call from his wife, CeeCee, stranded in the back of the airplane.
When the tape was played back hours later, CeeCee Lyles could be heard praying for her family, for herself, for the souls of the men who had hijacked her plane.
Phil Bradshaw was home in Greensboro, N.C., on the telephone, talking with a friend about the horrors on television. The line clicked. He asked his friend to hold.
It was Sandy Bradshaw, his wife, the flight attendant.
"Have you heard what's going on? My flight has been hijacked. My flight has been hijacked by three guys with knives," she said
Marion Britton, 53, assistant director of the Census Bureau's New York office, phoned a longtime friend, Fred Fiumano. All he can remember is that it was "sometime after 9:30."
Britton was crying. She had been hijacked, she told Fiumano, and two people on the plane already had been killed.
Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas, 38, phoned her husband Jack in San Rafael
"Sweetie," the voice came over the tape, "pick up the phone if you can hear me." There was a brief pause. "OK, I love you. There's a little problem with the plane. I'm fine and comfortable for now." She told Jack she loved him
Honor Elizabeth Wainio, 27, took the phone from Grandcolas and dialed her stepmother, Esther Heymann, in Baltimore.
"Mom, we're being hijacked. I just called to say good bye,"
Sometime shortly before 10 a.m., Tom Burnett called home one last time.
"Pray, just pray, Deena. We're going to do something," Tom Burnett told his wife.
From the back of Flight 93, CeeCee Lyles finally reached her husband, Lorne. "Babe, my plane's been hijacked," she said.
Honor Wainio was still on the line with her stepmother.
"I need to go," she said. "They're getting ready to break into the cockpit. I love you. Goodbye."
"Everyone's running to first class," Sandy Bradshaw told her husband. "I've got to go. Bye."
"They're doing it! They're doing it! They're doing it!" she said. Lorne Lyles heard a scream. Then his wife said something he couldn't understand. Then the line went dead.
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011028flt93mainstoryp7.asp
All this is sworn testimony; all this has been said by those directly involved. All this backs the official version of there being hijacker’s onboard flight 93.Is it all lies? Were there no hijackers onboard flight 93?
So once again is Lisa jefferson lying ? |
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| aggle-rithm wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | stateofgrace can you please explain how we are suppose to know if she was lieing or not? and why its so hard to comprehend that people might simply not know the answer to your question. would you like me to lie and guess? just for the sake of you getting an answer. i have never seen a voting poll that dosnt have a 'unsure','dont know' option before, so your question sucked, especially as you ignored all the people who did answer your question and said they dont know(which means ct'ers didnt ignore or avoid your thread and question). what do you think stateofgrace was she lieing or not or are you unsure? im unsure as i have no way of knowing. now why dont you answer the question, if your gonna accuse people of avoiding it just be nice to know where you stand on the question. |
I believe he already answered that when he said that it was accepted as evidence in a court of law.
Go ahead, say that the justice system was in on it, too. The same justice system that you fantasize will one day sentence Bush and Cheney to hard time for their "crimes". |
mmmm attitude. why tell me he answered it then put in a lot of stuff i havent said and stuff that you pressume i want or think. my aim isnt to get bush locked up, its just to understand what the media and goverment will not investigate, or hope for a reinvestigastion. what ever the outcome of it if there was one, as long as it answered the questions i have or most of them at least, id be happy. but if you wish to go around this forum presuming things whilst having a go at others for presuming things(after that what ct'ers do isnt it?) then fine. i dont see how that post i did deserved such a negative response. i was just intrested in what stateofgrace thought and was confused how he could claim ct'ers avoided it when they clearly gave answers. |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: |
why tell me he answered it then put in a lot of stuff i havent said and stuff that you pressume i want or think. my aim isnt to get bush locked up, its just to understand what the media and goverment will not investigate, or hope for a reinvestigastion.
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The media and the government have each done a LOT of investigating. The problem is that their conclusions are rejected by conspiracy theorists.
Why would a new investigation be any different?
| Quote: | what ever the outcome of it if there was one, as long as it answered the questions i have or most of them at least, id be happy.
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Some of them might be answered here: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm.
It answers a lot of CT-type questions about such things as free-fall collapses, oxygen-deprive fires, etc.
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but if you wish to go around this forum presuming things whilst having a go at others for presuming things(after that what ct'ers do isnt it?) then fine. i dont see how that post i did deserved such a negative response. i was just intrested in what stateofgrace thought and was confused how he could claim ct'ers avoided it when they clearly gave answers. |
Maybe it was a little harsh, I apologize.
I'd like to be able to guarantee that I won't be harsh again in the future, but...well, you know how that goes. |
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stateofgrace
Moderate Poster
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Marky, you could always ask me rather than revering to me as a third person.
I have started this thread for one reason. This reason is to obtain an answer of either yes or no to a very specific question.
I have repeatedly asked this question. To date nobody as answered this specific question but have tried to avoid, offer another answer or try to pretend they don't understand the reason for the quetion.It is easy when trying to obtain certain facts to become side tracked by other issues and the original question is lost. I have not allowed this to happen in this thread, nor will I.
This thread is about whether the claim there were no hijackers onboard Flight 93 can stand up. The only way it can is if those involved are lying. Some have argued maybe they were lied to. If that was the case then not one of them has voiced the opinion that they were lied to and no one has changed their statement.
I have presented fact and information behind this question, none of it has been acknowledged.
This thread is not about the eventual fate of Flight 93, it is a serious attempt to address what happened prior to it going down.
Does the fact that there were hijackers onboard in anyway alter or compromise the theory that Flight 93 was shot down? Possibly but could this theory not work unless there were no hijackers onboard?
So why are people so reluctant to accept this plane was hijacked. If you really and seriously want to find out what happened to this plane, you must have a baseline of facts to work from. Within that baseline there has to be room for the irrefutable statements given by those involved.There as to be a foundation of irrefutable facts and staements from which an alternative theory can be built on. Without this any alternative theory will never stand up.
For the theory that there were no hijackers were onboard Flight 93 then somebody has to be lying. It is no good or useful saying "oh well it's the US government". The official story is comprised of not only physical evidence but witness statements. These statements have been put forward by people that were involved in the day.
ONE of these people is Lisa Jefferson. She has said Todd Beamer spoke to her and told her there was hijackers onboard the plane.
Now this will be the last time I ask.
Is Lisa Jefferson lying yes/no? |
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