New Anti 911 Truth Website

[andyb]

From our friends at NFB, quite funny how they accuse us of theorising and speculating when that is all it seems they do!

http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/

[andyb]

Oh and if you do want to write to Mr Stott, don't go in all aggressive as this will only provide them with more ammo!

[kbo234]

The more we are attacked the happier we should feel about the situation.
Attacks will be unfair, of course (for example, we will not be challenged in the public domain about the evidence for controlled demolitions of WTC 1, 2 and 7 because such attacks would only serve to further expose the evidence) but they always show that there are criminals out there desperate to contain the situation.

The power elite and their media shills face an ever-more-hopeless task. When only 16% of Americans now believe that the Bush government has told the truth about 9/11, the writing is on the wall in capital letters.

[physicist]

[scar]

Minutes from Sept NFB meeting:

A: Right people we really need to focus our efforts on the real issues!
B: Thats right the real issues are all that are important in these troubled times
A: Correct B, with so many distractions in life it would be easy to get sidetracked.
C: So, errrrm, what are these issues we should stick to, you mean the evils of capitalism right?
A: WHAT?
B: Oh you mean the war?
A: ...
B: Attacks on our liberties then?
A: NO NO NO! we must attack the British 9/11 Truth Campaign!
B: Genius! but what then?
A: Next we go after all those other distracting bas*ards
B: Capitalists?
A: Soon B soon...
C: Hang on a minute, wont exposing the truth of 911 go a long way to helping our cause?
A: Conspiraloon alert! Tinfoil! Get him B! Hes one of them cultist nutters!

[ian neal]

FYI............. Please read a bit of back ground before diving in

Mark Thomas forum thread on which I last posted on page 19

Urban 75 forum thread

Paul Stott's profile and posts on this forum

Paul's website

This forum's thread discussing the original article

Now they have put their piss poor article online I will post a response when I find the time to write one. Needless to say I wholly 100% reject the charge that this campaign/forum/network/the 9/11 truth movement in this country is a cult in way, shape or form and unlike Paul and Heidi I would know since I know our origins and how we came to be here. What is more the people involved along the way can confirm what I say.

In engaging with team NFB, it would be nice to see if anyone can extract their position on 9/11 truth and what evidence they would put forward in making the case for a new inquiry. I don't know Heidi and Larry's position on this, but Paul supports the need for a further inquiry

Finally it should be fairly obvious to everyone that (despite NFB's concerns) there is no cult leader or leadership to tell anyone else how to respond to this article and website: no one to tell you what to say or how to say (kind of the antithesis of a cult I would have thought).

However, can I just urge everyone that if they choose to engage in this debate to do so with the utmost politeness and to say and type only what you would be happy to have quoted back at you, (because it probably will).

[PaulStott]

[Mark Gobell]

Hi Paul

Perhaps now would be a good time to explain what it is exactly that you and NFB want to achieve vis a vis the UK & Ireland 9/11 Truth Movement and the issue of 9/11 in general.

I for one availed myself of the entire NFB "package" on David Shayler & Annie Machon including the DVD of David Shayler and Larry O'Hara at Conway Hall. I have also visited the new website and apart from continually bashing David & Annie, I cannot find anything of substance anywhere.

Am I missing something ?

[Dogsmilk]

I can see where that site, along with Chomsky, Schnews and others are coming from, I really can. I really appreciate they worry that campaigning is being diverted from other causes.

But so what?

How many causes are there?

Who is best?

911?
anarchist action?
radical environmentalism?
animal rights?
anti-war?
anti-arms trade?
tireless lobbying of politicians?
support for Palestine?
anti-capitalism?

etc etc etc

We pick what's important, what resonates. The guiding factor is:


We all know things are getting very bad and we want a better world[b]

I'm sure I'm not alone in watching 'radical movements' bitch, whine and hissy fit endlessly over the years - often with 'radical anarchist' groups of about 10 people. I.e. not about to bring about a revolution any time soon.

I see a lot of stuff on this forum about a wide range of political topics. The same ones Schnews etc are also concerned about.
I see a lot of stuff I disagree with - e.g. I don't buy all that David Icke lizard stuff (though I freely admit I've never properly researched it - argument from conclusion - berate me anti-sophist & co). But you know what? I reckon I've more in common with the average Icke fan than Daily Mail reader.

Jesus, can't all those concerned about the rising tide of grim authoritarian bullsh!t support each other in their differing goals?!

People who don't buy 911 truth aren't automatically shills, sheeple and disinfo agents and those who do aren't automatically wasting their time on a fruitless 'conspiracy theory'

If the segment of the population that wants a world with less greed, lies, corruption, control and violent authoritarianism and more understanding, mutual support, fairness and compassion endeavoured to actually unite and back each others different ways of going about this, well...

...they all might actually get somewhere.

[heart-earth]

the commen factor is everything we got, so we gotta use it with sence.

[Dogsmilk]

ooh, just wanted to finish my little rant (sorry folks, please indulge me) -

I mean, looking at that website - well who's wasting valuable time and effort bothering to put that together??!!

If 911 is such a 'distraction', why bother?
What's wrong with this picture?

The irony is, I can't remember any political movement uniting people from different political outlooks and metaphysical perspectives quite as much as the 'truth movement' has managed.

Jeez, another irony is, I'm still not convinced myself of this 'inside job' stuff myself, but I'm getting really exasperated at the way the truth movement is coming to be seen as some 'enemy within' in some quarters.

Blimey; "Can't we all just get along?!"

[paul wright]

These Notes from the Borderland people must bother you, Wobbler, surely and push you over to 'our side' as they would have it
They are such obvious peddlars of the pernicious emotional plague as you indicate anyone would take a stand with us in protection against this onslaught

[Dogsmilk]

[ian neal]

[ian neal]

[Mark Gobell]

Enjoyed your thoughts there wobbler, your position speaks volumes, well said.

I smile at this one thing and trust that those that see the brilliant irony can smile at it too.

The opening post on this thread was made to publicise a new web site that has been specifically created to watch the 9/11 cult.

So what does this sinister cult do? Why, we make everyone aware of it publicly proclaiming it's presence of course.

How lovely.

[andyb]

Wise words Wobbler!

This new site seems to be mostly in part to NFB's vendetta against Annie and David. It is funny to see us accused of dogmatism and then read their article on A + D. They at least do see there are questions to be asked so that's at least one thing I suppose. It also brings up the point that that if we stick to facts and aren't rude then we can't be attacked.

[Patrick Brown]

[Mark Gobell]

For those that may be interested to read a critique of the "official" reports into the WTC crime, Kevin Ryan's presentation "A New Standard of Deception", provides a good resource here in writing and here in video

[Patrick Brown]

Thanx Mark I was going to add that but it slipped my mind.

[Belinda]

Copy to 9/11 Forum of BM's missive to Larry O'Hara, King of the Anarchists and creator of the 911 Cult website, o yea!!!

Hi Larry

I was at the Anarchist Bookfair in 2005 with David and Annie and met you there. I'd like to inform you and any other mudslingers (whom we have encountered on our rounds and I have to say instantly lumped in with you!!) that these two mind-blowingly brave people have been living with me under my roof (+ their two cats and one fish) for several months now, they being penniless and I being in a position to help them (at least in the short-term – we’re all 3 now penniless!!)

So of all people in the UK I'm probably nearest to knowing the reality of David and Annie’s financial situation and also that of the UK 9/11 Truth movement (since I do its books).

I challenge you or anyone therefore to PROVE that we, David & Annie or anyone in this movement are making money out of our efforts to bring accountability back into US/UK public life (if it was ever there). Come and check my own books and those of the movement, it won’t take more than 10 minutes to put you straight (since there’s so little in any of our accounts) and I can arrange an accountant and a solicitor (and my irritated bank manager at the end of a phone-line, as he is most days of the week! "Mrs McK you've gone overdrawn AGAIN today!") to be on hand to verify the facts to you. Might make great TV: “Leading UK anarchist investigates leading UK whistleblowers”!!

We can then have a cup of tea and chat about old times, the Troubles, Bloody Sunday etc.

Seriously though, haven't you got better things to do? Certainly we have; this 9/11 truth movement which you call a cult (like anarchism perhaps?) is mushrooming almost overnight into a vast worldwide network comprising millions of concerned ordinary people in the US and a string of other countries including the UK, as well as a growing list of academics, scientists, engineers and historians all busy analysing and interpreting the events of 9/11. Not to mention the hundreds of websites, films and books focussed on this issue and likewise questioning the whole system and historical sequence that led to such a horrendous act of terror being perpetrated by a government against its own population – Bloody Sunday hundreds of times over, hundreds of thousands times actually if you factor in the 3 wars initiated as a result, with more we’re told in the pipeline.

Whole countries are coming on board to 9/11 truth (eg Malaysia where 84% of the population polled this summer have rejected the official story and believe it was a cover-up) while President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela backed by other Latin American leaders is proposing to set up a new independent international tribunal to investigate 9/11 and call the criminal gang in power in America to account for their terrorism and war-crimes.

The state terrorists/psychopaths who could carry out an atrocity such as 9/11 in order to perpetrate this ‘War Of Terror’ against Muslims must never be confused or conflated with the ordinary people in the USA or any of the countries suspected of complicity, which includes Israel, although questions should certainly also be asked as a matter of priority of the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad which clearly worked closely with the CIA, MI6, ISI (Pakistan) and probably a string of other intelligence agencies in planning this operation. One of the key reasons for the dangerous pickle the world has gotten into is that the intelligence services are unaccountable even to governments let alone the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting. This was precisely the reason why David and Annie cut short their career in MI5 in order to blow the whistle/stop the rot.

In fact we, the people of ALL countries should be united against the corruption and abuse meted down to us from on high from governments/quasi-governmental agencies of which we, the people are always the victims while those who cynically conspire to murder us on our streets and trains and buses and herd us into senseless wars laugh all the way to the bank. And since you seem to be confused, the PEOPLE of any country includes all/any of those sacrificing their own security and comfort and even in some cases their lives to defend their fellow-citizens: the whistleblowers, protestors and activists of all stripes who often end up getting flung into prison. The best and bravest are instantly identifiable by their police history. But check out their bank-accounts too, Larry – money is the key to motive as you rightly identify, but in this case you’ve made the mistake of omitting to verify the finances of the objects of your hate and suspicion before slandering them publicly which is not very clever of you frankly and I’m afraid you are going to end up with a lot of egg on your face.

In fact why are you, supposedly yourself a defender of people versus government/the establishment pursuing this personal witch-hunt against some of the best people's champions of all time?? You’re of roughly the same age as them I suppose, moreover you’ve been a political activist for many years by all accounts so why can’t you recognise your own kind – or is that because YOU lead a double life you suspect they are doing so too, according to the “takes one to know one” principle.

I have to say that observing you ranting against David that afternoon at the Anarchist Book Fair I drew the instant conclusion that either you are mentally unstable or that you yourself must be in the employ of MI5 or MI6, in fact I actually asked you if you remember "are YOU working for M16??!!" Are you Larry? It wouldn’t be surprising – all political groups and organisations have embedded moles, plants and gatekeepers often deliberately installed by the intelligence services, we’ve had infiltrators trying to worm in and throw us off course, I’d like to think they haven’t got very far – one of the common features of 9/11 truthers as well as poverty! is high IQ coupled with equally well-developed intuitive faculties, in fact a lot of us are psychic.

Your new website rather confirms this scenario of your being an agent I have to say but if you’re NOT working for the other side, are still in your right mind but have made a misjudgement – which any of us could do – I urge you to drop this wearisome and ill-judged vendetta against two of the bravest defenders of truth, justice and human rights this country has known and apologise to them. Your apology would be accepted in good part, particularly if backed up by support amongst your fellow-anarchists for what the 9/11 truth movement is trying to achieve which is immeasurably important for everybody at this juncture in history as well as for future generations.

Rather than fighting your own side, join this global people's fight for justice, governmental accountability and truth, and against lies, deception, fudging of the basic laws of science and horrendous cruelty. Above all, please stop trying to personally destroy David and Annie. It only makes YOU look like an agent of the intelligence services and that YOU have been put in by Them for this purpose and that YOU could be the one who is raking it in!!!

On a lighter note the writing on your new website is not bad, someone here has a good line in satire and the cartoon is good too so well done for that. We could use your and your colleagues’ talents!

So there it is Larry – no one in the 9/11 truth movement is making any money out of it, least of all David and Annie. And the only one still working for British Intelligence in THIS household anyway is a cat called Eddy.

Belinda

[iro]

absolutely brilliant article belinda.

[Pikey]

I'll second that iro.

Belinda is an absolute outstanding and remarkable lady and a tremendous asset and rock in the 911 truth team in the UK.

In fact when you get involved in the 911 campaigning and activism and actually meet all these people who care you realise what a wonderful world it could be if we could unlock the chains on the consciousness of the people who have not yet awoken.

[Pikey]

[Pikey]

Its a challenging task to maintain calmness and collective thought when we get attacked individually or as a movement as a whole.

Its absolutely essential though for us to do this and remain focused on our mission statement.

This is one of my favourite poems, hope that it helps everyone of you and the global 911 truth campaign:-

[iro]

[Annie]

Hi all

Thank you so much for all your support in response to the Cultwatch development. NFB have been stalking Dave and me for years - in fact I seem to remember that Larry O'Hara's first kind thoughts were sent in a letter to Dave when he was imprisoned in Paris during the failed extradition attempt in 1998. While Dave was sitting in his solitary cell, banned from seeing his friends and family for months, O'Hara sent him a charming missive accusing him of all sorts of horrendous crimes, and telling him in a hectoring tone that he knew this spell in prison was a cunning plan to build up his "cover". This obviously had nothing to do with trying to increase the circulation of O'Hara's fledging publication....

Well obviously. as soon as Dave was released from prison in November 1998 he immediately resumed his lucrative career in MI5. Er, well, not quite. He spent the next two years living a hand-to-mouth existence in Paris, fighting for the truth to come out about the Gadaffi plot, the IRA Bishopsgate attack, the wrongful conviction of the Israeli Embassy Two, etc etc ad nauseam. He then voluntarily returned to the UK in 2000 to face trial, knowing he faced a prison sentence, but hoping that these disclosures would be fully investigated as a result of his trial.

And what has dear Larry done in all this time? Well.... he continues to produce his NFB rag. And now he's taken the brave step of setting up Cultwatch. I presume the name is supposed to be ironic - he's not proposing an echo of Redwatch? This is a notorious publication in left-wing circles organised by far-right extremists with, it is generally assumed, the help and backing of the security forces.

Redwatch monitored left-wing activists, and published their names and addresses, and places of work. It then encouraged members of extreme right groups to take "appropriate action" against these acitivists. In some cases this involved stalking, harrassment and violence.

A couple of years ago, when Dave and I were touring the country drumming up support for the STWC (before we were booted off their platforms for speaking about 911) we did a talk in Leeds. We were put up for the night by a lovely woman who had long been involved in left-wing activism and STWC. She told me how her name had appeared in Redwatch in 2004, and her car had been firebombed and dog poo pushed through her letter box. She was of course scared, but her primary concern was for her 6 year old daughter.

Of course, I'm sure that the name "Cultwatch" is just an unfortunate echo....

[Ally]

O'Hara is a real sleaze, he went after Stewart Home who subsequently made mince meat outta him.

AS THE THIN VENEER OF SANITY STARTS TO FADE
Larry O'Hara's latest smears show he's lost his grip on reality

I first met Larry O'Hara when he and John Murray of Open Eye manipulated a third party into arranging to meet me in a pub, and then turned up to 'confront' me about a satirical piece I'd written on conspiracy theorists in the first and only issue of Non Obedio. O'Hara attempted to play the 'tough cop,' Murray was more successful in fulfilling the role of the 'soft cop.' This incident left me with a rather low opinion of O'Hara, a self-styled spook buster and 'independent anti-fascist investigator.' Some months later, I ran into Brian Mosley of Phoenix Press who'd just published O'Hara's book Turning Up The Heat. I told Brian Mosley the book was silly because O'Hara offered no proof that the journalists he implied were spooks, did in fact work for the security services. I mentioned that I knew Jon Harlow of the Sunday Times (who I was friendly with in the early eighties but who I've only seen once, and then by accident, in the past seven years), and that it was absurd to imply that the transport correspondent of a national newspaper would simultaneously work for Special Branch (particularly on the sole basis of one article he'd written).

Sometime later, a highly distorted version of this conversation was run as part of the editorial to Green Anarchist 37, where it was reported as something I'd said to the Independent newspaper. I have, in fact, only ever had one conversation with anyone at the Independent, when Helen Birch phoned me to commission a piece about anarchism after she'd obtained my number from a third party. I have never been inside the Independent offices and I don't know anyone who is on their staff. Since Larry O'Hara was close to Green Anarchist and is published by Brian Mosley, I presumed he'd been the conduit for the tiny amount of genuine information used in a smear that implied I was simultaneously working for Special Branch and Searchlight, and had sado-masochistic sex with the Nazi bonehead Ian Stuart (who I am very glad I never had any contact with).* When I spoke to Brian Mosley about this, he offered to circulate a letter clarifying the fact that the conversation I was alleged to have had with the Independent was actually a highly distorted account of something I'd said to him. Although, as far as I am aware, he never actually did this. Brian Mosley later told me he'd spoken to O'Hara, who I was told was 'only passing on information' and was in no way responsible for the Green Anarchist smear.

It is strange indeed, then, that in Green Anarchist 38 under the headline Encounters With The Insignificant, there is an article by-lined to Larry O'Hara which talks about my '(presumably good friends) John (sic) Harlow (Sunday Times) and David Rose (Observer).' I do not know David Rose and I have never had any contact with him. This is clearly a continuation of the smear run in the Green Anarchist editorial which Mosley informed me O'Hara denied was anything to do with him (I was linked to both Rose and Harlow in this editorial). O'Hara also states in Green Anarchist 38 that my 'written work seems to consist of nothing more than the advocacy of violence,' another smear albeit one made with a qualification that would be unusual in the many unsigned pieces run by Green Anarchist.

I am known as a satirist and my fiction clearly uses humour to deconstruct various forms of discourse, including the very complex set of associations built up around the term violence. A theoretical precedent for this type of prose fiction can be found in Hegel's Aesthetics. Likewise, most of my 'non-fiction' is also satirical or at least humorous. O'Hara is not noted for his sense of humour and I assume that it is his inability to understand that my writing is satirical that leads him to smear me by suggesting I advocate violence. My own views on social transformation are not dissimilar to those of the Situationist Alexander Trocchi, who wrote in his manifesto Invisible Insurrection Of A Million Minds: 'We are concerned not with the coup-d'état of Trotsky and Lenin, but with the coup-du-mond, a transition of necessity more complex, more diffuse than the other, and so more gradual, less spectacular.'

However, it is not O'Hara's smears but the story that is constructed around them which indicate their author has lost touch with reality. I am supposed to have drawn my myself to the attention of O'Hara in a bookshop, and then run away from him; an unlikely scenario, since if I had done one of these things, I would not have done the other. O'Hara wants people to believe that he was not threatening me, but I was nevertheless scared out of my wits by him; another unlikely scenario since human beings are not subject to fright when they are not being threatened. I did accidentally meet O'Hara in a London bookshop in May, but quickly decided he wasn't worth talking to, particularly as he was mumbling something incomprehensible about the secret state. The only threats he made were that he was going to write about me in a pamphlet and that he would see me in a police station.

The building where we accidentally met contains two separate bookshops, and I went down to the basement to talk to one of my former employers after O'Hara had been told to stop following me around the shop by a member of staff. O'Hara, I am told by the assistant working in the bookshop upstairs, spent some time standing outside the door, but he wasn't there when I left the basement. Writing in Green Anarchist, O'Hara claims to have been hiding in a pub doorway, and to have taken a short cut so that he could cut me off before I reached the nearby British Rail station. Since I wandered in the opposite direction, it is hardly surprising that in O'Hara's words I had 'disappeared from the face of the Earth.' The assistant in the upstairs bookshop told me a few weeks later that O'Hara followed him into a local bar after he left work, all the while whispering in his ear that he had something important he wanted to tell him. Upon realising that the said shop assistant was being greeted by some of the more colourful 'low-life' characters who reside in the area, I am told O'Hara turned on his heels and fled.

O'Hara has been accused of being a spook, and while I do not think there is any truth in this accusation, I can see why his behaviour might lead some people to such a conclusion, despite the fact that there is clearly no evidence for it. After all, what is one to make of a grown man who writes accounts of concealing himself in pub doorways? To me, O'Hara appears to be acting out childish counter-espionage fantasies. There is a long tradition of accepting the simplest explanation for any given phenomena as being the true one, in O'Hara's case, this must simply be that he is mad.

*Among other things, the Green Anarchist 37 editorial claimed my article Organised Chaos in The Independent of 25/10/94 insinuated that they were still associated with Richard Hunt, when I actually stressed the desire of the current membership to distance themselves from their founder and ideological architect. For more details about the Green Anarchist smear see the letters from Richard Essex and Luther Blissett in Freedom of 10/6/95 and the undated Open Letter To Student Outlook issued as a leaflet by the London Psychogeographical Association.

Stewart Home. First published as a leaflet August 1995, shortly afterwards reprinted in documents section of Green Apocalypse.
http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/sanity.htm

[Belinda]

Thanks to Pikey & Iro for the vote of confidence and to Ally for fleshing out this weird character who as you show is more on the M.I. (mental instability) side than on the MI side.

He sent me back a rather weak little email today saying “I’ll reply to you in due course, in a manner of my choosing” and signing himself Dr Larry O’Hara.

Well that says it all.

My Achilles’ heel is that I always end up feeling sorry for people and I’m now feeling sorry for this poor muddled guy with his wounded ego who probably had a s**t start in life and is still a bedwetter cos his Mum didn’t love him. He can only deal with his hurt feelings by being ultra-smart and cool and frightening other people.

Poor guy, let’s not waste any more time either on 911cultwatch or on Mr or Dr O’Hara, on the other hand in case any of his nonsense has stuck, as it seems to on various young minds NB young minds (our recent heckler in Manchester who grabbed the mike from Dave and hollered to the crowd about Dave making megabucks out of 911 Truth can’t have been more than 18…), it’s good to have put it out there that David & Annie are NOT rich, still less still working for MI5 and that anyone can come and check this out for themselves.

If I see LoH again on my rounds I’ll probably give him a hug! What people like him need is to join our happy Truth family. I know Jesus/ St Paul may not be flavour of the month in some quarters but it reminds me of the story of Saul the Jew (later Paul) who went about breathing fire and threats against Jesus then had the Damascene conversion and ended up being the backbone of the early church.

We’re a bit like the early church but without the Jesus figure. (Do we still qualify for cult status?!)

Belinda

[iro]

i really dont see how anyone could think you two were making money out of this annie ... where is your predictable book on 9/11...your alex jones style library of DVDs and your sell out arena tours? (for example)

its awful mud slinging aimed at the pre-school level of intelligence.

When i came to the DRG event and chatted afterwards with the folk at belinda's house i saw a very dedicated community of people giving their lives and time over for precious little except the pursuit of getting the truth out. In our own ways we all here do our bit - some are campaigners on a mass public scale - some are not.

but we all end up poorer financially for our efforts.