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scubadiver Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1850 Location: Currently Andover
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: lets get to the point: So what is debunking? |
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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread231285/pg2
Interesting comment on the above link:
Revelmonk: I am for one tired of hearing people say that the 9/11 theories have been debunked when all that has been offered is an alternative opinion that has serious flaws in the facts.
I think I would agree with this. |
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Jay Ref Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 511
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: lets get to the point: So what is debunking? |
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scubadiver wrote: | http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread231285/pg2
Interesting comment on the above link:
Revelmonk: I am for one tired of hearing people say that the 9/11 theories have been debunked when all that has been offered is an alternative opinion that has serious flaws in the facts.
I think I would agree with this. |
Here's the definition:
Quote: | de·bunk (d-bngk) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "debunking" [P]
tr.v. de·bunked, de·bunk·ing, de·bunks
To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of: debunk a supposed miracle drug.
de·bunker n.
Word History: One can readily see that debunk is constructed from the prefix de-, meaning “to remove,” and the word bunk. But what is the origin of the word bunk, denoting the nonsense that is to be removed? Bunk came from a place where much bunk has originated, the United States Congress. During the 16th Congress (1819-1821) Felix Walker, a representative from western North Carolina whose district included Buncombe County, carried on with a dull speech in the face of protests by his colleagues. Walker later explained he had felt obligated “to make a speech for Buncombe.” Such a masterful symbol for empty talk could not be ignored by the speakers of the language, and Buncombe, spelled Bunkum in its first recorded appearance in 1828 and later shortened to bunk, became synonymous with claptrap. The response to all this bunk seems to have been delayed, for debunk is not recorded until 1923. |
Empty talk is the founding principle of "9/11 Truth". This "bunk" is exemplified by JohnDoeX in his recent postings where he asserts that the flight data recorder (FDR) from AA77 shows that the plane missed the Pentagon by at least 200 feet. Yet while arguing the minutae of the parameters recorded on the FDR he fails to grasp the simplest fact that this recorder was pulled from the wreckage of the Pentagon.
Therefore JDX is essentially arguing that evidence pulled from the wreckage of this airplane shows that this airplane did not crash.
Empty words....aka "bunk". Felix Walker would be so proud...
-z _________________ "Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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Mr-Bridger Validated Poster
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 186
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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scubadiver wrote:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread231285/pg2
Interesting comment on the above link:
Revelmonk: I am for one tired of hearing people say that the 9/11 theories have been debunked when all that has been offered is an alternative opinion that has serious flaws in the facts.
I think I would agree with this.
Yes i agree it too, its nothing more than theory against theory _________________ www.infodvds.co.uk
www.cornwall911truth.info |
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chipmunk stew Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 833
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Mr-Bridger wrote: | scubadiver wrote:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread231285/pg2
Interesting comment on the above link:
Revelmonk: I am for one tired of hearing people say that the 9/11 theories have been debunked when all that has been offered is an alternative opinion that has serious flaws in the facts.
I think I would agree with this.
Yes i agree it too, its nothing more than theory against theory |
Actually, it's theory backed by a mountain of evidence and a painstakingly thorough investigation against JAQ*ing off.
* Just Asking Questions _________________ "They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown |
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Jay Ref Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 511
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mr-Bridger wrote: | scubadiver wrote:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread231285/pg2
Interesting comment on the above link:
Revelmonk: I am for one tired of hearing people say that the 9/11 theories have been debunked when all that has been offered is an alternative opinion that has serious flaws in the facts.
I think I would agree with this.
Yes i agree it too, its nothing more than theory against theory |
Gravity is also "just a theory".
Some theories are superior to others. Not a theory...a fact.
-z _________________ "Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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debunked should surely mean something has been proven wrong with evidence and no matter how much you pick at it, it still stands up. anything other than that isnt debunked however i see the word used in a way that is as simple as, i answered your question there you go its debunked move on, regardless of anything that can be picked apart. while ever there are doubts over something it isnt debunked. but when it comes to a debate like 9/11 its all a matter of what you believe, if your on the critics side you will firmly believe that something is debunked because thats what you believe from what you know, and the same for truther's thinking that something isnt debunked. ive asked loads of questions before to try to get a clearer picture as to whats what but still aint able to be sure on anything 100% one way or the other regardless of what i think. which is why i have'nt posted much recently. so i think that in each others minds(critics/truthers)we will never agree on anything or come to the same conclusions, even on issues like losing our civil liberties and becoming more like slaves rather than citizens. the only thing im certain on is we aint being told the whole truth about stuff and that dosnt mean 9/11 on its own i mean the wider picture. i cannot believe critics have'nt picked up on some of the issues today that need answers presuming we still live in a democratic society with freedoms ect, again i dont just mean 9/11. it just seems like at times that anything a truther says will be strongly oppossed regardless of the signs or evidence because they have convinced themselves people are just out to start theory's and cause trouble. when infact its just millions of people growing concerned and trying to find the answers. think ive gone of track so ill end this post. |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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marky 54 wrote: | debunked should surely mean something has been proven wrong with evidence and no matter how much you pick at it, it still stands up. anything other than that isnt debunked however i see the word used in a way that is as simple as, i answered your question there you go its debunked move on, regardless of anything that can be picked apart. while ever there are doubts over something it isnt debunked. but when it comes to a debate like 9/11 its all a matter of what you believe, if your on the critics side you will firmly believe that something is debunked because thats what you believe from what you know, and the same for truther's thinking that something isnt debunked. ive asked loads of questions before to try to get a clearer picture as to whats what but still aint able to be sure on anything 100% one way or the other regardless of what i think. which is why i have'nt posted much recently. so i think that in each others minds(critics/truthers)we will never agree on anything or come to the same conclusions, even on issues like losing our civil liberties and becoming more like slaves rather than citizens. the only thing im certain on is we aint being told the whole truth about stuff and that dosnt mean 9/11 on its own i mean the wider picture. i cannot believe critics have'nt picked up on some of the issues today that need answers presuming we still live in a democratic society with freedoms ect, again i dont just mean 9/11. it just seems like at times that anything a truther says will be strongly oppossed regardless of the signs or evidence because they have convinced themselves people are just out to start theory's and cause trouble. when infact its just millions of people growing concerned and trying to find the answers. think ive gone of track so ill end this post. |
marky, I think when you go off track you actually put your finger on something very important. Many "truthers" think Bush and his administration are dangerous men who have pursuaded disastrous foreign policies, have gone a long way towards undermining the checks and balances of the US constitution and are a threat to Americans' freedom. They therefore very much want to believe that they were implicated in 9/11, and seize on anything that can possibly support that view, however flawed it may be, and brush aside any counter arguments. I have exactly the same opinion of Bush, but I try to look objectively at the evidence and I can find nothing that even gives me a suspicion that 9/11 was an inside job. I am sure many other critics are the same, we are in no way Bush supporters, and think he is guilty of many things, but not 9/11. |
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aggle-rithm Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 557
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Mr-Bridger wrote: |
Yes i agree it too, its nothing more than theory against theory |
So the troofers have a theory now? Last I heard they didn't even have a hypothesis, just a bunch of wild allegations.
Just to make clear -- a theory is not a guess, it is a tool for explaining a fact. The theory of evolution explains the FACT of evolution, the theory of gravity explains the FACT of gravity, the theory of 9/11 explains the FACT of a terrorist attack on that day.
The tangled tapestry of accusations and pseudoscience that is the "truth" movement doesn't explain anything. |
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chek Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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And here again -we have the situation nicely laid out in just a few posts.
In September 2001, the Bush Theory of Perpetual War, justified by the evil attack on 911 comes along.
The 911Truth movement says wait a minute, there is so much that is wrong/ incorrect/ unscientific and politically dumb here - everything from Able Danger to Global Pancakes to Natural Dusty Blast Furnace Theory to WMD - how could they expect anyone with half a brain believe ANY of it?
And the 'critics' say. No no no. All these things are 'explainable'.
And boy, do they 'explain'.
They can drown you in their 'explanations'.
But the funny thing is, that for all their science talk, and no matter with how much detail they 'explain' about photon reflection and absorption, refraction and dispersion, black refuses to become white.
Until you believe it does.
Oh, and yes, yes you're right - Bush is a bad man.
But really, not that bad.
And probably too stupid to front for some murderous cabal.
Really the very idea!
And after all he is a War President, so don't rock any boats.
Just put your fingers in your ears and repeat after me: la la la la la la la.
And everthing will be fine.
There's a good serf. |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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chek wrote: | And here again -we have the situation nicely laid out in just a few posts.
Oh, and yes, yes you're right - Bush is a bad man.
But really, not that bad.
And probably too stupid to front for some murderous cabal.
Really the very idea!
And after all he is a War President, so don't rock any boats.
Just put your fingers in your ears and repeat after me: la la la la la la la.
And everthing will be fine.
There's a good serf. |
Perhaps you will be able to point out, Master of Distortion, exactly where I say anything like Bush is really not that bad, and probably too stupid to front for some murderous cabal and after all he is a War President, so don't rock any boats.
You are the one who never listens, never reads, you are so convinced of your own righteousness that you don't really need to. Rather like Bush, in fact. |
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chek Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Aw, don't take it personally BW, but you're only one ickle biddy cog in a much larger strategy. |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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chek wrote: | Aw, don't take it personally BW, but you're only one ickle biddy cog in a much larger strategy. |
And you are one of the gullible mass who have rushed to try to prove Bush guilty of something he is certainly innocent of, so that you have to resort to faking up evidence that does not exist and thereby discredit your cause. Meanwhile Bush can point to your futile efforts as the depths to which his critics have to stoop in their attempts to undermine him, and get away with more of his evil. Your absurd distortions only help Bush every time you resort to them. |
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chek Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Bushwacker wrote: | chek wrote: | Aw, don't take it personally BW, but you're only one ickle biddy cog in a much larger strategy. |
And you are one of the gullible mass who have rushed to try to prove Bush guilty of something he is certainly innocent of, so that you have to resort to faking up evidence that does not exist and thereby discredit your cause. Meanwhile Bush can point to your futile efforts as the depths to which his critics have to stoop in their attempts to undermine him, and get away with more of his evil. Your absurd distortions only help Bush every time you resort to them. |
Oh, I'm fairly sure everyone and his dog is already aware of Bush's fake evidence, fake past, fake ranch, fake politics, fake elections, fake action over Katrina, fake EPA health all-clears in NYC, ... pretty much fake everything, without needing any help or hundrance from me.
Last time I looked 84% of Americans thought 911 was faked too.
But huff and puff away if it makes you feel like you're 'doing something'. |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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chek wrote: |
Last time I looked 84% of Americans thought 911 was faked too.
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You really can't help distorting everything you look at, can you? You must know perfectly well that is quite untrue, but off you go, faking, twisting, distorting and, let us be blunt, lying. Calling this a truth movement really is richly ironic! |
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chek Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bushwacker wrote: | chek wrote: |
Last time I looked 84% of Americans thought 911 was faked too.
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You really can't help distorting everything you look at, can you? You must know perfectly well that is quite untrue, but off you go, faking, twisting, distorting and, let us be blunt, lying. Calling this a truth movement really is richly ironic! |
That was a month or so ago. It's probably more by now. |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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chek wrote: | Bushwacker wrote: | chek wrote: |
Last time I looked 84% of Americans thought 911 was faked too.
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You really can't help distorting everything you look at, can you? You must know perfectly well that is quite untrue, but off you go, faking, twisting, distorting and, let us be blunt, lying. Calling this a truth movement really is richly ironic! |
That was a month or so ago. It's probably more by now. |
Why stop there? Go further, you know you want to - tell us 150% of Americans believe Bush personally pressed the button and blew up all the WTC buildings. |
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SHERITON HOTEL Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 988
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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The critics are in trouble when they start contradicting each other, there is this resident arch 9/11 inside job denyer on the Channel4 news forum who rationalised the apparent (impossible) vapour trail, photographed from whatever hit the Pentagon as shutter speed blur, then, out came this official looking video of the "757 engine" swallowing one of the lamp poles lamps and then giving off a trail of thick white smoke.
has anyone ever followed the money and really found out where the critics are coming from? |
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chek Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | has anyone ever followed the money and really found out where the critics are coming from? |
The losing side |
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John White Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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bushwacker wrote: | And you are one of the gullible mass ... |
He he he. We're a mass! _________________ Free your Self and Free the World |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | The critics are in trouble when they start contradicting each other, there is this resident arch 9/11 inside job denyer on the Channel4 news forum who rationalised the apparent (impossible) vapour trail, photographed from whatever hit the Pentagon as shutter speed blur, then, out came this official looking video of the "757 engine" swallowing one of the lamp poles lamps and then giving off a trail of thick white smoke.
has anyone ever followed the money and really found out where the critics are coming from? |
Why should that be, when the truthshirkers contradict each other the whole time? Those seem like two perfectly plausible theories on the Pentagon photos to me, since no one can be sure what they show.
If there is money involved why aren't I getting any? Where do I apply? |
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Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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John White wrote: | bushwacker wrote: | And you are one of the gullible mass ... |
He he he. We're a mass! |
No John, you're a mess! |
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John White Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Bushwacker wrote: | John White wrote: | bushwacker wrote: | And you are one of the gullible mass ... |
He he he. We're a mass! |
No John, you're a mess! |
mass or mess, you admitted 9/11 truth is now widespread, and the rise of true scepticism (as opposed to the faux "what problem?" kind) is looking strong: not before time
Not to worry mate, best to have a sense of humour about these things _________________ Free your Self and Free the World |
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chipmunk stew Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 833
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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John White wrote: | Bushwacker wrote: | John White wrote: | bushwacker wrote: | And you are one of the gullible mass ... |
He he he. We're a mass! |
No John, you're a mess! |
mass or mess, you admitted 9/11 truth is now widespread, and the rise of true scepticism (as opposed to the faux "what problem?" kind) is looking strong: not before time
Not to worry mate, best to have a sense of humour about these things |
Indeed. It is rather hilarious that you lot believe despite all evidence to the contrary that you are a majority movement that is building a head of steam rather than a fringe movement that has already peaked.
I'll not be participating here much in the next week. I'm going to be diverting more of my energy towards ensuring that Bush has some congressional opposition and accountability, restoring the checks and balances in my federal gov't.
Have fun in your Land of Make Believe while I'm gone!
Cheers. _________________ "They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown |
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John White Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I'll not be participating here much in the next week. I'm going to be diverting more of my energy towards ensuring that Bush has some congressional opposition and accountability, restoring the checks and balances in my federal gov't.
Have fun in your Land of Make Believe while I'm gone!
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Wishing you good luck of your own on that quest, though I quite understand you trying _________________ Free your Self and Free the World |
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catfish Validated Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 430
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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from http://www.tfd.com/debunk
Word History: One can readily see that debunk is constructed from the prefix de-, meaning "to remove," and the word bunk. But what is the origin of the word bunk, denoting the nonsense that is to be removed? Bunk came from a place where much bunk has originated, the United States Congress. During the 16th Congress (1819-1821) Felix Walker, a representative from western North Carolina whose district included Buncombe County, carried on with a dull speech in the face of protests by his colleagues. Walker later explained he had felt obligated "to make a speech for Buncombe." Such a masterful symbol for empty talk could not be ignored by the speakers of the language, and Buncombe, spelled Bunkum in its first recorded appearance in 1828 and later shortened to bunk, became synonymous with claptrap. The response to all this bunk seems to have been delayed, for debunk is not recorded until 1923. _________________ Govern : To control
Ment : The mind |
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