Jon Ronson 9/11 Truth hatchet job

[suspecta]

Hear hear to Ian Neal - a veritable voice of sanity; Andrew Johnson too. Nobody's suggesting censorship - just a place where racism isn't tolerated and people like Jon Ronson can come and discuss without encountering a barrage of insults. If some people feel this is tantamount to censorship then so be it.

This is far too important to risk alienating the very sorts of people we should be looking to attract.

Incidentally the Ronson Guardian article was quite even-handed in its own way - I notice that he hinted at finding Richard Dawkins a bit extreme in his rationalism, another clue that he may have been more open-minded when he came here than some of us gave him credit for.

Suspecta

[mason-free party]

Personally i think Ronson is taking us all for mugs...he comes on here wanting to debate 911 like some novice who has just stumbled across 911 conspiracy theories yet has set foot in Bohemian grove with Alex Jones researching human fake? sacrifices...pull the other one Jon.
Your programme was made to make conspiracy theorists seem like nutters and now you want to lump 911 truthers into that catagory...Alex said either your lot or the BBC lot were like a giggling bunch of school kids when he went to be interviewed and walked out early because of their pathetic,ignorant attitude towards him.
You only have to find out who are behind the Ronson conspiracy programme to find out who is pulling his strings...come on Jon,who put you up to it?

[kbo234]

[mason-free party]

Its no coincidence that Ronsons programme 'Secret rulers of the world' appeared on TV shortly before 911....lets get the agenda of conspiracy nutters in place first before the big 911 event...lets ridicule the main players who will be the ones spouting out 911 truth when it happens and afterwards...well hard luck Jon,ya zionist leaders plan has back fired bigtime..

The ‘Son of God’ & the ‘Secret Rulers of the World’
Rixon Stewart

Ten years ago David Icke came out, so to speak, and declared himself the “Son of God” on a popular TV talk show. A decade later and he’s dropped the “Son of God” claim; now he’s speaking to packed audiences across the globe and telling them about the world’s secret rulers: about the Trilateral Commision, the Bilderbergers and the Illuminati. Names which you don’t normally hear in the main-stream media; ideas and research that Icke has largely taken from others and which his audiences are lapping up.

On Sunday May 6 2001 David Icke was the feature of an hour-long documentary on prime time British TV, entitled ‘The Secret Rulers of the World’. And from start to finish it was an object lesson in disinformation.

The program itself portrayed Icke in a sympathetic light; as a genuine, personable but deeply misunderstood figure and, most importantly, not once during its entire sixty minutes did it refer to his views on Christianity. Even more significant was the fact that Icke was ‘set up’ to be hit with custard pies at a book signing in Toronto at the programs end. This was done with the full knowledge of the shows presenter Jon Ronsson, who divulged not a word of it to Icke, presumably to enhance its effect. Which prompts one to ask: what else did Ronsson omit to mention for the sake of effect?

By the look of things a whole lot more. For example Team Satan, the alleged crop circle-makers, host a web site that until recently featured recruitment adverts for no less than MI5, MI6, GCHQ and the Security Intelligence Services. Now however those adverts have been replaced by a link promoting Jon Ronson, his web site and the book that accompanied ‘The Secret Rulers of the World.’ And while the TV series itself was no great revelation the episode devoted to David Icke was a real eye opener, not because it said anything new, but rather because of what it omitted to say.




Recruitment advert for GCHQ on Team Satan's website


As mentioned Icke has built up a sizable audience presenting material that is largely based on other people’s research. Much of which is quite credible, it’s just that things get a little dubious when Icke starts adding his own ideas. However ‘The Secret Rulers of the World’ specifically looked at Icke’s contention that we are ruled by a mutant race of shape shifting Reptiods. In itself the idea is ridiculous enough but Ronson muddied the waters still further by continually asking: “Was this a coded reference to Jews?”

Of course the answer is no, but it certainly caught Ronson’s attention. So much so that you’d almost think that he was trying to obscure the other ideas Icke presents by continually focusing on the Reptiod’s and their alleged anti-Semitic symbolism. For the duration of the entire program he persisted on this one idea as if everything else Icke said was too ludicrous to consider.

But then in the words of Dave Starbuck, yet another who’s given Icke research material and seen him use it without any acknowledgement, Icke is simply a “presenter.” That’s what the former sports reporter used to do and that’s what he does today, except that instead of presenting sports reports David Icke now presents other people’s conspiracy research. And instead of examining that, Ronson spent nearly an hour looking at Icke’s allegedly “anti-Semitic Reptiods.”

Stranger still was the fact that the most powerful episode in the whole series simply disappeared without trace. The program in question was devoted to microwaves and their potential as a weapon and tool of oppression. In it scientist Tim Rifat showed how a microwave oven could be cut in two and how a horn antennae could then be placed on the wave guide, turning it into weapon with an effective distance of hundreds of feet and how at close range it could literally fry human flesh. The Billion dollar question, Tim asked was: how do we know that the authorities are not already using this as a weapon?




The advert for Ronson's website that replaced the recruitment advert for GCHQ.


Maybe Channel 4 thought the program was too hot to handle for judging from what we’ve been told it could have had serious repercussions. So perhaps they decided not to screen it, assuming that they even saw it, for throughout the filming Ronson kept asking Tim: “How do you know that I’m not working for the other side?”

Which simply underlines the contention that Jon Ronson is as bent as a nine pound note.

[mason-free party]

more proof that Ronson and his 'circle maker' chums are in with higher dark forces....

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=149
And there you have it Baron if you're looking in...blasted circle makers exposed!

"By the look of things a whole lot more. For example Team Satan, the alleged crop circle-makers, host a web site that until recently featured recruitment adverts for no less than MI5, MI6, GCHQ and the Security Intelligence Services. Now however those adverts have been replaced by a link promoting Jon Ronson, his web site and the book that accompanied ‘The Secret Rulers of the World.’ And while the TV series itself was no great revelation the episode devoted to David Icke was a real eye opener, not because it said anything new, but rather because of what it omitted to say. "
_________________
NO more Disinformation - NO more Deceit - NO more Greed - NO more Corruption
NO more MASONIC GOVERNMENT bs!
LONG LIVE TRUTH & FREEDOM!
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-freedom.co.uk/part_6.html

[chek]

Having read through his thread, I have to come down on the side of Ian and Suspecta.

While other ideas expressed have some validity - particularly the PNAC US Right Wing/Israeli Right Wing link, expressing these without the utmost care will be used as an easy excuse to brand us with the anti-semitic label which is patently absurd, but is how these things work.

I appreciate some may also take a 'damn the torpedoes' approach, but we have to do two things ourselves:
present our campaign in the real world in such a way as we do not make it easy to dismiss by side stepping the main issues,
and
realise that none of us are perfect either and just as prone to our own brand of prejudices and shortcut thinking modes.

In the words of a famous man, "be the change you wish to see in the world"

[TimmyG]

debate over ronsons standard of journalism is besides the point.

the fact is a popular and well known journalist/writer came to this forum to engage in debate and the majority of people on here blatantly attacked him.
Perhaps he's never going to consider the evidence, but i would have liked to have held a rational discussion with him first to find out.

what a wasted opportunity. completely senseless.

[ian neal]

[Abandoned Ego]

I really am at a loss exactly where to start with this piece. But with respect suspecta, for you to suggest that this piece is balanced, is in my opinion bending credibility to the very limits.

Let us start at the very beggining shall we ?

[ian neal]

Having read Them and seen some of Jon's programme I need little convincing that he has a hidden agenda. I just suggest that we (collectively) shot ourselves in the foot by straight away calling him a shill and bringing up zionism. If his intention was to do a 'hit job' on us, 'we' played straight in to his hands

[Abandoned Ego]

[Andrew Johnson]

[paul wright]

[andyb]

One can look at this under the old 'there's no such thing as bad publicity' or as a 'hit piece'. The campaign has now been read about by thousands of Guardian readers but not in the best light. I think those who actually come here and see the original thread will see it wasn't everyone who was attacking. To those who call him a shill, I would like to see your examples of other mainstream journalists bringing up these issues.

For the sake of the campaign as a whole please, do not write anything to him in a derogatry manner as this will only harm the cause as the next article will appear about people abusing him even further and those who did will moan and say he deserved it. If you don't agree with someone that is no reason to abuse them, spend your energy elsewhere!

[mason-free party]

[jomper]

[ian neal]

[ian neal]

[TimmyG]

[Stefan]

[suspecta]

[outsider]

'Que Bono?'(hope I got that right, my latin is non-existant; I've even forgotten the altar-boy responses from my childhood). The only ones rubbing their hands with glee when Holocaust Deniers (or 'Questioners') get loose on our forum are Zionists, Neo-Cons, Masons and anyone with malice aforethought against the 911 Truth movement. I personally regard them as contemptible. I also agree with suspecta re 'Jon-Boy'; I immediately decoded it as 'Jew-Boy' and would be very hard to convince that it was not meant like that. I think I can speak for Jon that he would have interpreted it thus also. That Israel has committed, and continues to commit terrible crimes I would be the first to accept. I recently demonstrated opposite the Israeli Embassy, with a placard accusing Israel of War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity and Crimes Against Peace in Gaza and Lebanon; sad to say I didn't recognise any other 911 Truthers there. A few of their other crimes include training the Sri Lankan forces in 'interogation techniques', supplying Sabre jets and Galil assault rifles to Indonesia to use in their subjugation of East Timor, and when Carter stopped US arms sales to Guatemala because of their appalling human rights abuses(but continued to supply counter-insurgency aircraft which were used to devastating effect in E. Timor), Israel stepped in and built a machine-gun factory in Guatemala. I'm sure the 'Deniers' would find a warm welcome in the BNP, but even they would keep them a million miles away from their forum. They are not welcome here. 'Free Speechers' should read the not-so-small print on rules for posting on this forum.

[brian]

I find the notion that had J Ronson been treated with respect we would not have been given the treatment by him fanciful.

The man is a blatant fraud and could, no doubt would, have used snippets from various threads to portray us in the light that suited his quite obvious agenda.

Well said kbo234 and abandoned ego, dont let the small minded and apologists shut you up. The "great masters of lies" are old hands at the game but the playing field is getting much more even these days.

[kbo234]

[suspecta]

[brian]

suspecta, on what basis do you make the assumption that Ronson would have written a "gently mocking article" that would have led to Guardian readers ....? What insane raving do you refer to?

I repeat - the man is a blatant fraud with an obvious agenda and I for one see no good reason to pretend otherwise.

Here below is an example from my local press letters page of what we are witnessing here.

The first letter -

Cardinal is naive to blame Muslims for 9/11


Sir,—I am afraid Cardinal Keith O’Brien (October 23) jumps to a potentially disastrous rush to judgment on 9/11.

Despite popular belief, we still do not know who was behind that atrocity so it is wrong to be demanding an apology from Muslims.

We know that suspicious stock exchange deals, as yet uninvestigated, were taking place in the run-up to 9/11.

We know that untold billions of gold bullion went missing from a basement in the World Trade Center.

We know that Israeli agents were spotted dancing for joy as they trained their binoculars on the Twin Towers. We know only two groups of people who were allowed to leave the USA that day. The Bin Laden family and a group of Israeli secret agents.

These are not rumours. They are checkable facts.

We know that Bush and company were just waiting for an excuse to activate their long-laid plans to invade Iraq.

Cardinal O’Brien says we shouldn’t have to live in fear of attack from Muslims.

Muslim countries are being bombed, invaded and occupied by forces whose leaders, Bush and Blair, declare themselves Christians. Who is living in fear of attack from whom?

I think it’s time Cardinal O’Brien and his ilk used their undoubted intellects to work out what’s really going on.

It’s not rocket science— unless you’re making massive profits from providing the rockets to kill all these





The response -

Pushing their own agendas


Sir,—The Courier should be advised that in printing Colin Cameron’s letter of October 25 they have given publicity to every insane conspiracy theory going and have contributed to the pernicious anti-semitism that is now developing in this country.

Given that we now have video of bin Laden meeting with the hijackers it is absurd to suggest that anyone but a small group of Muslim fundamentalists were responsible for 9/11.

Furthermore, the so-called “checkable facts” Mr Cameron presents are nothing more than half-truths or downright lies concocted by those with a visceral hatred of the US and Israel and who seek to lay all the world’s ills on their shoulders.

No, we shouldn’t blame Muslims as a group for 9/11, but Mr Cameron seems to think that it is right to blame the Jewish people and The Courier seems to feel it is alright to give him publicity for what are outlandish delusions and falsehoods.

What is next, a letter on Holocaust Memorial day proffering so-called “evidence” that it never took place?

The irrationality that saw the ascendancy of Wahabi style Islam and the subjugation of the true classical Islamic culture is now rearing its head in our own back yard.

There is a simple explanation to what happened on 9/11, some may feel the need to make it more complicated to justify their twisted world view and racism, but we should recognise that their motives in doing so are not to find the truth, but to push their own political agendas and prejudices.
---

Not even an attempt to address the validity of the claims but the same old tiresome cry of anti semitism and the favourite linking of holocaust denial.

They protesteth too much.

[suspecta]

[Abandoned Ego]

[Andrew Johnson]

I think again, we can "short circuit" some of this dicsussion by saying he didn't really need to look at or use any of our remarks, just the 9/11 evidence. It stands on its own - the science wins out. That's as simple as I can put it (as has Prof David Ray Griffin etc etc).

So Mark Kermode, Jon Ronson, Marina Hyde and also Audrey Gillan (all Guardian writers) can be put in exactly the same category - Gravity Deniers. It won't be the last time I use this phrase, I don't think....

[brian]

The 'War Against Terror' is a War against the People:



Youssef Aschkar Interviewed By Silvia Cattori



Al-Jazeerah, November 3, 2006



In this interview recorded by Swiss journalist Silvia Cattori in November 2005 - more than six months before the war launched against Lebanon by Israeli army in summer 2006 – Youssef Aschkar was warning that the destabilization of Lebanon, Syria and Iran was under way, and that Lebanon was the country most threatened and most vulnerable to the Israeli menace.--



--What is taking place in Syria and Lebanon is closely linked to what is going on in Iraq. There are two strategies at work in Iraq. There is the official American strategy, which is perhaps an imperial strategy for the domination and control of natural resources. And there is another strategy, which is the strategy of the gang of monsters who are called “neoconservatives”, who dictate their plans to the Pentagon and to the State Department. This “gang” (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, and Douglas J. Feith, among others) have their own plan; they are the ones who have advocated destroying not only the state of Iraq, but the whole of Iraqi society. The entire network that the neocons control circumvents the generals of the Pentagon, and circumvents American military command. It has infiltrated itself into all the high offices of the United States, and has infiltrated itself also into society, into the American media, and into religious organizations. It is a state within a state.---

--Silvia Cattori: An investigation on what, exactly?



Youssef Aschkar: On the neocons who rule the Pentagon and are the cause of so many humanitarian disasters! On what really happened on September 11, 2001! On who is really running the war in Iraq! Is it Mr. Bush, or is it these monsters at the Pentagon who use mercenaries to carry out secret operations in the Middle East? --

-- The new masters are of a different kind: they are connected to the monstrous team of the neocons, who act in all four corners of the globe by means of their networks and their mercenaries. The economic sphere is in full submission to their project --

Full interview below -

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2006%20Opinion%