Blunt Republican
Minor Poster
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one, often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. 'The CIA killed Hendrix', 'The Pope had John Lennon murdered', 'Hitler was half Werewolf', 'Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone' etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it. |
Isn't stupid bull * like that the purpose of this website??
| Quote: | | So its hardly surprising that the events of September 11th, 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis. |
Yes, and you are one of those loons.
| Quote: | | One of the wilder stories circulating about September 11th - and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs - is that it was carried out by nineteen fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, |
Actually, it's normal people, and people who don't give a flying * who know the truth about September 11th.
| Quote: | | with no apparent motivation other than that they 'hate our freedoms.' |
There are several motivations, that he outlined in his declaration of Jihad. They include...
-The US support of Israel
-The Occupation of the Arabian Peninsula
-Agression Towards the Iraqi People
-Dictationg Policies to Muslim nations
-Supporting Abusive Regimes and Monarchies in the Middle-East, aiding the opression of their people.
| Quote: | | Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. |
Actually, all rational people know this truth, no Charlie Sheen is NOT rational, or a person.
| Quote: | | Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories. |
Believing in the existance of terrorists is not paranoid, they exist, denying it is stupid. Claiming that the whole world has conspired against you, is paranoid.
| Quote: |
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organising them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, |
They were caught unaware, they ignored some warnings, but lets face it, the Clinton administration didn't do anything about them in eight years, why should they care?
Lets also not forgot NORAD wasn't responsible for operations inside the US pre-9/11.
| Quote: | | the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA - |
Do you have proof of CIA links? American Airlines stock had been falling for a long time, and were reporting they'd lose even more money then usual, it peaked a couple times over the course of the year actually. (The insider trading that is.)
| Quote: | | the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, |
What a b******, instead of scaring the living * out of a bunch of 7 year olds, and flying off to the whitehouse which would likely be a target as well, he stayed calm, made a brief statement, talked to his advisors in his fully equipped presidential office on air force one, and made sure he wasn't a target. What a selfish b******.
| Quote: | | the controlled demolition of the WTC, |
No evidence to support this, the squibs were caused by pressure on the wall by the tower collapsing, and thats why they blew out.
From Debunking911.com
| Quote: | | They say this anomaly is an explosive charge going off and a sure sign of Controlled Demolition. It's often followed by more video of charges going off in real Controlled Demolitions. But if we examine the anomaly closely, we see these [would be] explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They tend to spurt out and then increase with time. An explosive works in reverse to this. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time. |
http://debunking911.com/overp.htm
Not to mention, their were resturaunts there, there would have been an explosion every time the fire hit a gas burner.
The temperature of burning jet fuel is interesting, lets remember Jet fuel burns at 825 degrees fahrenheit, and steel loses half its strength at 650 degrees, not to mention the paper, and furniture that added to the temperature of the burning. The steel beams buckled, and eventually gave. To the accusations of "melted steel"... well, most people can't tell the difference between melted steel, and heated steel, it was probably melted furniture.
Again, no structural engineer in the world believes 9/11 was an inside job.
| Quote: | | the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, |
No evidence of a missile hitting the Pentagon, you can't pass this sort of thing off as an established fact, that's just not right.
Here is a link that debunks all the Pentagon missile bull *.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.ht ml
| Quote: | | the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about nineteen Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. |
As if anyone had any clue that sort of thing would happen. It really wasn't all that hard, before 9/11, boxcutters were aloud on planes, so they could've easily taken over the planes with the boxcutters, airport security still sucks.
They were in a state of panic, 22 planes were off course, and there were 21 available fighter jets. Every hijacking up until then was for money, the first one weren't dealt with because they were so soon together, no one assumed it'd be crashed, they even told them they'd met their demands, and they were landing.
| Quote: | | The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions. |
Which is more preposturous, 19 Arab men took control of planes, and crashed them, or the United States government in 8 months (the time they were in office) used military precision, and secret explosives, that would've had to be put in the building over the course of several months, spent billions of dollars to kill 3000 people to get oil, that they could've just bought with that money, so they could get that much more money, even though they're already elderly rich men, and it wouldn't be worth the risk.
| Quote: | | It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as 'the fruit loop' and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)ogical conclusions. |
You know how many times I've told that to actual conspiracy theorists? I've never changed my story, and neither has the official story.You're a moron for even noting that.
| Quote: | | According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, nineteen Arabs took over four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets. |
I've never heard of them having guns, gas, or electronic guidance. You moron.
| Quote: | | The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID - but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities - they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. |
Again, * air port security, and you're reading the victim list, not the flight manifest.
And no, they weren't videotaped at all, were they...
| Quote: | "Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get." |
So wait, we have the CIA, FBI, the Bush administration, the Jews, Fire fighters, the police, NIST, Larry Silverstein, every structural engineer in the world, the people on the planes, and now the baggage handlers??? Are you sure you're not just on the next episode of Punk'd?
| Quote: |
"Very strange", thinks the security officer, "that's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask...and why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..." |
So why would all the terrorists on each plane need all that equipment? Lets not forget half that stuff they didn't have, and they WERE on the secuirty tapes... how can you argue with somebody that doesn't even know what they're trying to debunking???
| Quote: | | Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time , the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity. |
Well, a credit card trail, the flight manifest, the luggage they grabbed from Mohammed Atta, and the security pictures, like the one I have already showed, but, well, if you're trying to make a point, I guess it's ok for you to lie.
| Quote: | | Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?" "You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on... |
See, nobody did say that their fake ID and their passport said different things. When people smuggle into the country, they get all sorts of fake bull * with the same name. But of course, now he's going to call me a fruit loop, even though you're the one who made up things from the official story.
| Quote: |
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story.
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Well, as stupid as the pile of evidence given to us by the FBI, CIA, and US government makes the story sound...
| Quote: | | "Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen. |
One passport survived, and not all of that plane was insinerated, a section of the widnows were found ontop of tower five.
The passport was in the luggage compartment, at the back of the plane, part of that probably flew out when it was no longer attatched to the engine.
| Quote: |
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The 'improbability drive', in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens - just about all the time in their world. There is a principle called 'Occam's razor' which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor. |
Using Occams razor, it makes most sense that what we are told is true, and there is no huge government cover up. You're a moron for bringing up something that hurts your story. I hope you get hit by a bus.
| Quote: | | Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the nineteen invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes. |
One time, I thought it would be funny, for the sake of amusement, to put all the conspiracy nuts into doorless buildings, and take that down with controlled demolition...
| Quote: | | Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that September 11th, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas - after they had attached their masks, obviously - but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code.Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive. |
Again, using the gas thing, that wasn't true. What they did was they stood up, stabbed the flight attendants, and went into the cockpit, and stabbed the pilots. You know, if I'm being stabbed, my first insinct is to get the guy the * away from me, then I'll punch in a security code.
| Quote: | | So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of 'our freedoms', it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar - really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5 o'clock the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. |
You talk alot without really saying anything, um...there is no evidence in what you've just said.
| Quote: | It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. |
It took you that long to say anything, and the plane wasn't totally vapourized, as I've already pointed out.
I'll finnish this bull * later, I'm gonna go watch the Simpsons.
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I'll make a signateur later you stupid democrats! |
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