Rachel from N.London on Alex Cox's Forum

[ian neal]

[numeral]

[Justin]

Rachel wants and is calling for a public enquiry into 7/7 - I believe we should forget our differences with her and support her on this. But I would also echo what Neil has just said about her not being able to grasp the greater picture.

I've just found we have two more MPs also calling for a public enquiry:


Published: 24th February 2006

7/7 - has the Blair something to hide?

TWO north west MP have demanded an inquiry into the 7/7 London underground terror attacks.

Liberal Democrat Euro-MP Sajjad Karim said that the Government's reluctance to respond to widespread demand for a public enquiry into London's July bombings was likely to raise more serious questions about its approach to the 'War on Terror'.

"This Government has been all too keen to underline the importance of 'leaving no stone unturned' in the so-called 'War on Terror' when justifying the intolerable suspension of civil liberties it has sanctioned in the name of national security," said Mr Karim.

"Whole communities, especially ethnic minorities and, in particular, Muslim Communities, have been subject to unrelenting scrutiny as a result of the Government approach to combating terrorism. However, when it is the systems of state and public services which are under examination, the Government seems reluctant to live by its own rules."

Mr Karim's statement followed the announcement by Prime Minister, Tony Blair, that the Labour Government would oppose a public enquiry in favour of a report generated by parliamentary committees.

Mr Karim added: "The British public would be right to ask, once again, what it is the Labour Government themselves have to hide about the state response to July 7th?"

His call was backed by Liberal Democrat MP for Rochdale, Paul Rowen.
He quizzed Tony Blair at Prime Minister's Question Time over his refusal to hold a public inquiry into the bombings.

Speaking after the debate Mr Rowan said: "We need to know what happened, what went wrong with the intelligence gathering, and what our security services are doing to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

“The Prime Minister has said that he would not call a public inquiry because it would be a waste of resources. It is never a waste of resources to allow those affected and those who have lost loved ones the chance to question those responsible for out safety and security. Ducking and diving on this and other issues by the Prime Minister is not acceptable."



First published by the Asian News

[brian]

Seems some members of the security services might want an inquiry.

The Sunday Times February 26, 2006


MI5 rebels expose Tube bomb cover-up
David Leppard



MI5 is facing an internal revolt by officers alarmed about intelligence failures and the lack of resources to fight Islamic terrorism.
To illustrate their concern, agents have leaked more topsecret documents to The Sunday Times because they want a public inquiry into the “missed intelligence” leading up to the July attacks in London.



They believe ministers have withheld information from the public about what the security services knew about the suspects before the bombing of July 7 and the abortive attacks of July 21 ---

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2059046,00.html

[ian neal]

[alkmyst]

On Monday 27th Feb, Rachel North blogged:

[sonic]

As Alkymst said, "...join the dots".

In this regard then, for those who haven't watched it I recommend that you have a look at Ian Crane's excellent DVD "9/11 - 7/7 Connection" and pay particular attention to Peter Power and his 1000 staff running a "security exercise" simutaneously. This needs more exposure and discussion.

Ian makes a good case for asking questions such as "Who comissioned Peter Power's to undertake such an "EXERCISE" that day and indeed why was such an exercise put in place.

These are deep issues, right at the heart of the event and need to be doggedly pursued to the point of public disclosure of what exactly was going on.

Peace,

Sonic.

[Sinclair]

The Peter Power video can be downloaded here:
http://www.terrorize.dk/misc/london/london.terror.games.wmv

[alkmyst]

Rachel,

some weeks ago, I suggested that you might be interested in watching a DVD called 'The 9/11 - 7/7 Connection'. Earlier today, I learned that Ian Crane, the person responsible for putting this DVD together, will be speaking at The Sols Arms, Hampstead Road, London on Thursday 9th of March.

Ian has posted the following synopsis:

[Rachel]

Oh, I can't be arsed to continue to waste nail polish hitting keyboards in anger.

but here, c/o donna ferrentes/justin on urban 75 is some food for thought. Enjoy....

[alkmyst]

Rachel, I would like ask a question. There has been a lot of debate over the train that the four alleged perpetrators actually took from Luton, on their way to Kings Cross. Now, I know you 'don't care' how they made this particular leg of the journey but there does seem to be a great deal of confusion over this particular aspect of the Official Version.

Initially it was reported that they caught the 7.40 but when it is established (by independent researchers) that the 7.40 didn't run that morning, it is reported that they caught the 7.48. However, it is subsequently confirmed (by independent researchers) that the 7.48 did not arrive at Kings Cross in time for the alleged perpetrators to have got onto their respective Tube Trains and detonated their devices at 8.50.

So it is now left to conjecture that the four alleged perpetrators must have caught the 7.20, which was apparently running a few minutes late. This would perhaps explain how the alleged perpetrators were caught, entering the station, on camera just before 7.22.

Apart from the lack of any other CCTV evidence being made available, where are the eye-witnesses? Apparently, none of the station staff have been able to confirm seeing the alleged perpetrators walking (or running!) through the station, let alone taking a particular train. Even more surprisingly, apparently there are no 'positive I.D's' from passengers on any of the supposed trains.

Let's reflect on that for a moment. Four Asian looking lads carrying back-packs and neither station staff or commuters can confirm a positive I.D.!

Let's speculate that they separated, in an attempt to be less conspicuous, but then surely it is, in theory, four times more likely that a combination of station/train staff and/or commuters would recall seeing one or all of the alleged perpetrators, at some point between entering Luton station and disembarking at Kings Cross?

After all, Ian Blair announced in the immediate aftermath that the Police were launching, "...... the biggest manhunt in UK criminal history."

Of course, it could be that our information is inaccurate and we readily accept that the Police have far greater resources at their disposal but such inconsistencies, coupled with apparent lack of supporting evidence does raise questions with regard to the integrity of the official version of events.

In the absence of corroborating evidence, would you agree that this is exactly the type of issue that should be addressed by an Independent Inquiry?

On behalf of you, the 52 victims who were killed, the 700 who were injured, Jean-Charles de Menezes and all the respective families , we ask for no more than the truth.

Al K Myst

[numeral]

[numeral]

[ian neal]

[Wokeman]

Gosh, do you really, really think that's the last we shall hear of Rachel? Really?

[Techybloke666]

I have just been catching up on here and reading Rachaels posts.

I would like to just say I believe that Rachael was there and is a survivor from what I've read here.

I would like to ask her one question mind and only one if she is still reading these posts.

Rachael wrote
Those of us closest to the bombs describe the yellow light of the explosion, the bang was so powerful that you didn't hear it if you were close to it, it felt like being punched in the ears

Many others who survived also described the explosion in the same way.

Rachael
If you can think back to that day please, did you smell anything at the time of the explosion or just after ?
Anything at all you can remember would be great.

I'm sorry if this upsets you to think about in any way and would totally understand if you did'nt wish to talk about it at all.

cheers

[numeral]

[alkmyst]

Rachel wrote:

[ianrcrane]

The following quote is taken from the London Times, dated July 12.

[Prole]

I had some discussion (um perhaps exchanges would be a more suitable description) with Rachel (aka Badger Kitten) on Urban 75 regarding what she says she remembered smelling.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=143765&page=13&pp=25

[alkmyst]

The posting on the influence of Collective Recall raises some interesting issues:

Badger Kitten a.k.a. Rachel North
08-07-2005, 04:53 PM

[Rachel]

Right. I've already said that i know that i am wasting my time here but sod it, once more for those at the back...


As Bridget has yet again ( predictably) seen fit to quote me uncharitably and out of context: as I have already answered her questions before and yet she has seen fit to censor my answer - I shall explain it once more for you people to satisfy your morbid curiosity.

1. July 7th: Bomb goes off behind me, choking black smoke, carriage dark. Explosion so loud it is not possible to tell position of bomb as total sensory deprivation ( too dark to see, ears deafened by blast). It is not possible at this stage to know where bomb was. We are plunged into total darkness and breathing thick smoke and those still alive and able to leave, leave the carriage. Those who look back as the smoke clears and the emergency light comes on see indescribable scenes. But at this stage, I do not know if the corpses and dying I see are in every single carriage or just my own: because I do not know how big the bomb was. For all I know, everyone else on the train is dead bar the people right next to me. For all I know, Kings Cross Station has been bombed and levelled. I get off the train.


2. July 8th: News reports bomb is where I was standing and also the number of casualties. I am relieved that not every single person on the rest of the train is dead. Disturbed by the report that the bomb was by the 1st set of doors where I was, I call the police to report this is wrong. At the time they are still recovering bodies. I worry they may be entering via the end of the train when it would be much easier to recover bodies by front of carriage one, which is still structurally ok, as we escaped from it. This is all quite clearly on my original account BTW

3. Weekend: police come round and take statement. I show them where I think the bomb was in a diagram. I now know it was on car 1 from the news, and thinking about it, the flash, the loudness of the blast are congruent. I give the statement for several hours, sign it and then ask/ 'Was I right about the bomb?'Afterwards they confirm my diagram is correct and tell me I am 'a bloody lucky girl'. I am in deep shock. I continue to my blog, I want to tell people that the bomb was not where they thought it was: I think if any of the survivors are like me and realise that it was wrong they will start to feel that they are losing a grip on reality> It is bad enough that the bomb was in our carriage but to have it where you were standing!...it NEEDS to be made right, it feels horrific. I feel very strongly about this. I type up my account. I make a typo mistake: I type ''yards'' instead of ''feet''. I wish it had been yards, but it was feet.

4. I remain upset about the BBC diagram with the bomb in the wrong place, especially as I am by now blogging for the BBC ( for free) and my blog account contradicts their diagram. I ask the UK editing team to change it. They confirm with the police who say that yes, it is in the wrong place and the early reports were wrong. The diagram is duly changed, I am pleased because it is very distressing to see the bomb placed where you were when you know that it was not there.Later, other survivors bnear me tell me how wierd they felt when they saw it in the wrong place on the diagrams in the news. And by the way, this is an example of how the news can get details wrong, and nothing is sinister about it - it is corrected as more facts come out. Why don't you read some books on news journalism?

No police procedures were broken during my statement -taking process, don't be so paranoid. After the interview, the police confirmed that my diagram was correct: they have done this for other survivors AFTER the interview has been completed and the statement signed.

I am not an M15 professional or a COINTELPRO or a shall or any of the other offensive insinuations you lot like to smear me with.

I have also explained , several times, about the S. Times piece where I explained that the PHYSICAL re-experiencing of the trauma I REPEAT PHYSICAL RE-EXPERIENCING OF THE TRAUMA - THE SMELL OF THE SMOKE THE BANG etc was triggered by watching a TV programme.

Like a soldier watching a war movie who hears the bang and automatically throws himself to the floor, who physically smells explosives or dead bodies when he is only watching a war movie.PHYSICAL RE-EXPERIENCING. You go back there.
Different to memory. Totally different.

It is PTSD symptoms.

Can you grasp that? Can you try and have some basic human empathy? Can you at least try, instead of rushing to your usual overblown conclusions?

Thank you

Finally, I am aware that memories can be influenced by later events, but I would like you to know why i am aware of this. I was raped & left for dead in 2002, as you know from Rachel's Story to which you refer. The trial at the Central Crown Court in January 2004 required me to reprise the memories that I had spoken of and reviewed many times since the attack. I was spot -on: my original statement and my cross examination exactly matched. He went down for 12 years, sentenced to 15 in total

Some things you remember, clearly, for the rest of your life. The experience of being raped and being bombed come into that category. Being almost-murdered, coming close to death. Please think about that. I lived, many others died. It will always be with me.

Finally, I have some questions for you people. I would like to ask you all

1. whether you accept that there is such a thing as Muslim fundementalism in this UK ( yes/no)

2. and the existence of terror cells in the UK? (yes/no)

3. That there is such a thing as young men inspired to bring atrocity attacks to the UK in revenge for the attacks on the umma in Afghanistan, Chechyna, Iraq etc? (yes/no)


4. That there is a theology-lite/action-heavy jihadist philosophy that is entirely different to the more common barelwi Islam in the UK and that some young men are drawn to it, and some go much further into a political jihadi extremist mindset. (yes/no)

5. Do you accept that groups such as this exist? Yes or no?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3670007.stm

Because if you cannot accept this basic fact then I know for absolute certain how once more,I wasting my time with you people. I was fed up with the usual spiel and selective misquoting and acting as if I had not already covered the point s some of you raise several times already so what the hell, I've popped in once more. But you might do me the courtesy of replying to my question...

Please can you tell me if you believe what you see in the Al-Muhajiroun
Newsnight report of 2004? Do you accept that extremist cells exist? That UK youths are members of them?

(And BTW I don't want a load of accusations thrown back about me being racist: it is not racist to look at the facts of existing extremist groups. The fact that I correspond with Muslims ( see Hassan on my blog) , post on Muslim talkboards, that I attended the Muslim anti-islamophobia rally etc, that there are Muslim survivors in the KCU group should answer that charge before it is even levied.

.

[ian neal]

Hi Rachel

I will accept the answer to all your questions is a very probable YES. However do you accept the following assertion from Michael Meacher based this article ?

"Meacher charges that British and US intelligence agencies have had longstanding relations with Islamic fundamentalists from the time of the Mujahideen war against Soviet forces in Afghanistan through to the wars in Bosnia in the 1990s. He states not only that British intelligence cannot be trusted to investigate the London bombings, but also that the CIA may be protecting key figures involved in 9/11." YES or NO

(You needn't comment on the possibility that the CIA is protecting key figures involved in 9/11 since you have accepted this is not an area you are familiar with)

What is your opinion of John Loftus comments connecting the '7/7 mastermind' to British intelligence?

Are these connections and questions the type you would like to see an inquiry investigate?

[Rachel]

Meachers got it about 40% right.

He's conflated too many things though. I am not going to put what I think up on this board as to do so may be argued as prejudicing a pending trial that is presently sub judice.

I honestly cannot say any more than that: wait for the crevice trial and the 21/7 trial, after the verdicts have come out I will feel more comfortbale about saying more.

[Rachel]

I should like to hear Alkmyst ,prole and the other posters answers to my question about extremist cells beofre continuing with any firther discussion...

[Ally]

So rachel wasn't in the carriage where the bomb went off. Wonder what else she's lying about. I know for certain there ain't a shred of evidence to support her claims Islamofascists blew up the London Underground.

[Sinclair]

Rachel,

I am cognisant of the opening post of this thread:

[Rachel]

[alkmyst]

Rachel wrote:

[Rachel]

I am at work, so it's quite hard to spend hours trawlign round evidence which is frankly, there for you to fidn if you look.

Look here for a start ...
http://www.j-n-v.org/London_Blasts/MEDIA%20REVIEWS/JNV_Media_Review_05 0910.htm

Today's Independent has a breakthrough story about the three Leeds bombers, and quite what they were up to before the 7 July plot. Ian Herbert and Kim Sengupta have done sterling work in uncovering the 7/7 bombers' social work/gang activities.

Mohammad Sidique Khan, the oldest of the four bombers, has been seen as the lead bomber. He seems to have worked closely with Shehzad Tanweer in creating a gang devoted to forcibly getting heroin addicts off drugs, outward bound-type adventuring, and, sometimes, fighting white gangs:

'The link between the two men dates back to the 1980s. In recent years their friendship had developed into membership of a 15-strong group of Asian youths known as "The Mullah Crew".'

'The group's meeting points included a local Iqra Islamic bookshop, which was raided by police after the bombings, and a gym beneath Beeston's Hardy Street mosque. Their radicalism was so blatant that the gym became known as the "al-Qa'ida gym", according to Tanweer's associates. But many were prepared to overlook this because the leaders of the Mullah Crew were known for energising many disenchanted Muslim boys whose heroin abuse was giving the Asian community a bad name.'

'Tanweer seems to have been integral to this process. "He and the Mullah Crew cleared up the area," said a source. "Lads would be taken by the group and put through cold turkey by locking them in a room for five days." '

'The Mullah Crew's emphasis was on strengthening the young Asians physically, often through outdoor activities like paintballing, climbing in the North Yorkshire Moors and canoeing in North Wales. Tanweer was more committed than most and he is particularly remembered for a paintballing trip in which he proved superb with the gun. "He was approaching it like a proper soldier," said the source.'

'Islam was also a part of the Mullah Crew's creed of clean living. "To be invited on one of these outings you had to be a part of their religious set," said another source. "They would not take lads who had become too 'Westernised' for their liking." '

'Another Mullah Crew trip saw an ill-equipped group go half-way up Mont Blanc before they were forced to head back. "Going without the proper equipment made it seem as if they were testing their strength for the jihad; testing their faith," said the source.'

'It appears that Tanweer took every aspect of life seriously, from cricket (he batted for Shaan B in the Quaid E Azam Yorkshire league) to snooker (he rejected the usual, smoke-filled clubs in favour of the Northern Club in Leeds, which has its own coach).'

'When it came to guarding what he perceived to be his territory, his independent spirit sometimes led to violence. The windows of his family's chip shop were smashed after fights broke out between white and Asian youths in Beeston. Tanweer seems to have planned to get his own back. "He was part of a group which planned to go to the white part of Beeston and get some revenge," said a source.'

The Independent has built up a 'a different picture' of Shehzad Tanweer, as more of an equal with Khan:

'a highly focussed, motivated and independent jihadist, who spent time - without Khan - at a terrorist training camp in Pakistan run by a group linked to the kidnap and murder of an American journalist...'

'One of Tanweer's former associates said the bomber had received lessons in handling arms and explosives at the camp in Mansehra, a remote area near the Kashmir border, in December and January. This is corroborated by sources in Pakistan, one of whom claims that he had two stints at the camp.'

One family member has now revealed that there were hints of the 7/7 attacks. She told Herbert and Sengupta:

'[The family] were watching a documentary on Muslims in Britain [in May]. Shahzad was convinced there would be a battle between Muslims and the West. [He said] "You'd better get out of here. Everyone's going to hate you".'

While these hints are now being recognised in retrospect, there is still no evidence that any family member of any of the four bombers knew of their plans in advance. The behaviour of many of them is evidence in the opposite direction: Hasib Hussain's parents reporting him missing to investigators on 7 July, in the belief that he might have been a victim is the most noteworthy example. This report was a crucial clue in the early part of the investigation, accelerating the identification of the Leeds bombers.