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xmasdale Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1959 Location: South London
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:07 am Post subject: Jean Charles Menezes memorial Friday 29th July |
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Jean Charles de Menezes Family Campaign
WE REMEMBER
Jean Charles de Menezes:
Murdered by the police at Stockwell station, Friday 22 July 2005
The Menezes family call upon the people of London to join them in remembering Jean Charles
Friday 29 July
Family vigil at Parliament Square 5.30pm
Please bring Brazilian and Peace Flags
Inter-faith memorial service
Westminster Cathedral 7pm
42 Francis Street, London SW1P 1QW
- includes live link to Jean Charles' funeral in Brazil
Tube: Victoria/St James Park
Buses 11, 24, 148, 507, 211.
ALL WELCOME
Jean Charles de Menezes Family Campaign
PO Box 273, London E7 07956 210332 / 07931 337890
Justice4jean@hotmail.com |
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Linda Validated Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Romford Essex
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: Brazilian's family claim police altered their story |
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1711303,00.html
London bombs
July 28, 2005
Brazilian's family claim police altered their story
By Daniel McGrory
THE family of the Brazilian man shot dead by marksmen who mistook him for a suicide bomber revealed last night how police have changed their account of the incident.
As the body of Jean Charles de Menezes was flown home to Brazil for his funeral later today, his cousin said that senior officers at Scotland Yard have retracted claims that the 27-year-old electrician was acting suspiciously, so officers had no option but to open fire.
Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said police told her that he was wearing a lightweight denim jacket and not some bulky coat that could have hidden an explosive belt underneath. Detectives also claimed immediately after the shooting that Mr Menezes had refused to heed shouted warnings by armed police and vaulted the ticket barriers at Stockwell Tube station.
Now police say that he used his travelcard to gain access to the station. Ms Figueiredo said: “They are saying he did absolutely nothing wrong when he was killed, so why don’t they say all this publicly.”
Police shot the electrician seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at point-blank range.
The family claim that Mr Menezes’s death forced Scotland Yard to change its shoot-to-kill orders. In yesterday’s arrest in Birmingham, the family point out that police used a Taser stun gun. They want to know why a similar weapon was not used last Friday.
Ms Figueiredo also expressed anger at reports that one of the officers involved in the fatal shooting had gone on holiday with his family, paid for by the Metropolitan Police.
She said: “It is not right that this person should now be enjoying his holiday when we are suffering.”
Alex Pereira, 27, another cousin accompanying the coffin on the flight home, said: “The officer must be brought back and show the world he did something wrong”. Senior officers emphasised that the independent investigation into the incident was continuing. |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: Leak disputes Menezes death story |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4157892.stm
Leak disputes Menezes death story
An image leaked to ITV News shows Mr de Menezes lying dead
Leaked documents appear to contradict the official account of how police mistook a Brazilian man for a suicide bomber and shot him.
The papers, from the probe into Jean Charles de Menezes' death, and leaked to ITV, suggest he was restrained before being shot eight times.
Mr de Menezes was killed at Stockwell Tube station on 22 July.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has said it will not comment on its investigation.
Public inquiry
The documents, including witness statements, also suggest Mr de Menezes did not hurdle the barrier at Stockwell tube station, as first reports previously suggested, and was not wearing a padded jacket that could have concealed a bomb.
The family of Mr de Menezes has called for a public inquiry into his death.
The leak suggests the electrician was restrained before shot
His cousin Allessandro Pereira said: "My family deserve the full truth about his murder. The truth cannot be hidden any longer. It has to be made public."
In a statement, the IPCC said it does not know where the documents came from and that its priority was to keep Mr de Menezes family informed.
'Acting suspiciously'
The shooting occurred the day after the failed bomb attacks of 21 July.
The latest documents suggest Mr de Menezes had walked into Stockwell Tube station, picked up a free newspaper, walked through ticket barriers, had started to run when he saw a train arriving and was sitting down in a train when he was shot.
In the immediate aftermath of the incident, police said Mr de Menezes had been acting suspiciously and suggested he had vaulted the ticket barriers.
The IPCC made it clear that we would not speculate or release partial information about the investigation, and that others should not do so
IPCC statement
Police also said the Brazilian electrician had worn a large winter-style coat - but the leaked version suggested he had in fact worn a denim jacket.
The leaked version said Mr de Menezes was being restrained by a community officer when he was shot by armed police.
'High security'
The IPCC would not comment on the details of the leak.
What sort of society are we living in where we can execute suspects?
Harriet Wistrich
The commission said the family "will clearly be distressed that they have received information on television concerning his death".
Its statement added: "The IPCC made it clear that we would not speculate or release partial information about the investigation, and that others should not do so. That remains the case."
The commission said it operated a "very high degree of security" on all of its investigations.
'Great embarrassment'
Harriet Wistrich, solicitor for the family of Mr de Menezes, said the information the leaked documents contained was "terrifying".
She urged the government and police to review the shoot-to-kill policy.
"What sort of society are we living in where we can execute suspects?" she said.
"First of all it tells us that the information that was first put out, which was first reported in the news, is almost entirely wrong and misleading.
"There was no suggestion that this person was a suspect in any way, that he was running from the police".
She said it also suggested the information given to the pathologist who carried out the post-mortem examination on Mr de Menezes was incorrect.
Former Flying Squad commander John O'Connor told the BBC the leaked report would cause "great embarrassment" to Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair, adding he would be under pressure to "go".
He also said it was "very difficult" to blame individuals for the death of Mr de Menezes.
"Simply because it would appear that they were acting on information that this was a positive identification of Osman [Hussain], one of the suspect bombers.
"But had the normal procedures taken place in which a warning is given and officers wear specially marked clothing then this young man may not have been killed."
Scotland Yard and the Home Office have so far said it would be inappropriate to comment. _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Wokeman Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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"Suspect (Jean Charles de Menezes) was acting suspiciously"
"He was wearing a large winter-style coat" (which could have concealed a bomb).
These are not statements taken from a witness who is mistaken, like one who gives the wrong colour of an escaping car. These are deliberately placed lies, to suggest guilt where there was none. "He must be prevented from . . ".There was an imperative at work here. He had to be taken out. Why? He was a contract electrician, was it something he had seen, or something he knew? |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Would be interesting to know if Menezes knew about the 17th May Power Surge.... _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Jim Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 294 Location: London
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject: No padded jacket |
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http://www.itn.co.uk/news/312121.html
The BBC image has been cropped and does not show fully the denim jacket worn by Jean Charles. |
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mason-free party Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 765 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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ad.johnson wrote: | Would be interesting to know if Menezes knew about the 17th May Power Surge.... |
Yes..i believe he was an electician..does anyone know who he worked for?..did he work in the Underground maybe...noticed this report said track had to be replaced so did explosion occur underneath carriage?
http://www.tubelines.com/docs/03_aug_05.pdf |
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frydays Minor Poster
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Gloucestershire
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.warmwell.com/05aug18craigmurray.html
Quote: | The killing of Jean Charles de Menezes Craig Murray reacts to the latest revelations about the probable murder of Jean Charles de Menezes
".... it would still be murder even if Mr Menezes was indeed a terrorist. That was unequivocally established by the Death on the Rock case, where the European Court ruled that it was illegal to assassinate IRA terrorists in cold blood in Gibraltar, whether or not they were engaged in a bombing operation.
The government are acutely aware of that precedent. That is why the lies about his bizarre behaviour were so quickly concocted, and assiduously spread. They did so with the help of a compliant media establishment that repeated these lies ad nauseam to an excited public. .." |
Is this why the shooting of two men at Canary Wharf by the police on 7/7 was kept secret? |
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Sinclair Moderate Poster
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 395 Location: La piscina de vivo
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: Comments on de Menezes Death.......... |
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This is from the comments section at Rigorous Intuition http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/08/liminal-state-of-nation. html#comments
The London tube execution of Mr De Menezes is deeply disturbing.
The police / SAS let him on the tube because it was there they wanted the execution to be public. I do not know why? Maybe to send a message to someone.
It now raises serious doubts in my mind rearding the 7/7 bombings.
Why if there are 3000+ cameras on the tube system have we only seen one image of the bombers?
Why did not one of them leave a suicide note or give any indication whatsoever to their familes that that day was their last alive.
The UK police have now proven they are horrendous liars and cannot be trusted. No big news to readers of this blog but it comes as a shock to me.
It seems likely the 7/7 bombers were conned into carrying explosives thinking they were on some other mission. God knows what but I no longer buy the story that they new what they were really doing.
Also the cops went to Brazil during the period when their lies were unchallenged and tried to buy the family off on the cheap!
They now deny this but it is obvious they did it. Why would the family lie?
The SAS had a golden reputation post Iranian embassy siege.
I am glad they have been revealed for what they are - cold blooded killers who are typically in no danger themselves and with overwhelming firepower. Heros my arse.
See also http://www.xymphora.blogspot.com/ for other comments on the subject................ |
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solly New Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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The point about the murdered *contract* electrician should be followed up. Could it be a deliberate assassination rather than random brutality?
Not only did he know about the power surge, but did he know about cctv's on the no 30? Where was he working late June early July?
Does anybody know how this question could be put to his friends, family or legal team. Possibly a long shot, but as it has been said, "when people die, problems go away". _________________ solly |
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frydays Minor Poster
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Gloucestershire
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: |
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1745084_2,00.html
KILLING INQUIRY
Friday, July 22
10am: Jean Charles de Menezes shot by police on Tube at Stockwell
10.30am: Witnesses report a man being chased into the station wearing a padded jacket and leaping barrier
11.50am: Scotland Yard confirms shooting. Says man “was challenged by officers and subsequently shot”. Complaints department alerted
12.00pm: Sir Ian Blair asks to delay the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation to safeguard the hunt for terrorists
3.45am: The Yard issues pictures of four men wanted for the failed attacks on July 21. Sir Ian says: “The information I have available is that this shooting is directly linked to the ongoing and expanding anti-terrorist operation”
Yard statement says “clothing and behaviour” at station added to suspicions. Investigations are to be conducted under IPCC supervision. Later amended to say that IPCC will conduct inquiry
Gesio de Avila, a friend of Mr de Menezes, whom he was meant to meet, says he contacted Mr de Menezes’s mobile phone.
Saturday, July 23
Early hours: Mr de Avila is rung by police because he phoned the dead man. Police question him for two hours at his north London home. They show him pictures of Mr de Menezes and say that he may be dead
9.40am: Sir Ian says that the operation to find the failed bombers from July 21 is “fantastic” and that developments have been “very encouraging”
“The level of public response to the appeals has been extremely good, we’re very happy with what’s happening,” he said. “I actually believe the Metropolitan Police is playing out of its socks. I think it’s a fantastic investigation and a fantastic response”
10.30am: Sir Ian told that the dead man could be innocent. “Somebody came in and said the equivilent of ‘Houston we have a problem’,” he said. “I thought ‘That’s dreadful. What are we going to do?’ ”
5pm: Yard confirms that the dead man is not linked to terror attacks.
9.45pm: Mr de Menezes is named. |
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Alan Firminger Minor Poster
Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 54 Location: South London, UK
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Several facts non South Londoners should know.
Five years ago Stockwell Underground was Muggings Central of London Underground. Cameras were installed to make it safe, successfully. LU respect the importance of the cameras and it is unthinkable that three were faulty.
Also five years ago the Stockwell area was the murder capital of the UK, guns were the normal weapon. Led by Brian Paddick the police fought back hard. There must have been a standby firearms team at the Brixton Nick, did they finish their tea before rushing out to action ?
The area around Stockwell Underground Station is always quiet. If an arrest of a suspected bomber had to be made it could have been made there with reasonable safety.
But halfway along the bus from Tulse Hill is Brixton, with its underground station. If JCdeM had got off the bus and entered the tube at Brixton he would have been able to touch about fifteen people all the way from the bus to the tube. It thins out through the barrier. So if the purpose was to stop him entering the tube what was the plan if he had got off the bus at Brixton ?
The only sensible understanding is that a vanload of police firearms officers tailed the bus. So the big question is why were they too slow to get off and intercept on open ground ? |
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Wokeman Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: More lies from the British police on the de Menezes Murder |
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More Lies From The British Police On The de Menezes Murder
Chris Talbot | August 25 2005
More evidence has emerged relating to the July 22 police killing of the young Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes in London, providing further proof that the police systematically lied about the subway shooting and have been conducting a cover-up, with the aid of the Labour government of Prime Minister Tony Blair and a largely compliant media.
Claims that there were no closed-circuit television tapes of the underground tube station where de Menezes was shot dead by eight bullets fired at close range have been refuted by the staff working at the station. According to Monday’s London Evening Standard, the staff were “amazed and furious” when told by police that tapes from the cameras were blank.
An official with the rail workers’ union said that at least three of the four cameras were working. “It is most unusual to say the least,” he said of the police claims. Normal procedure is that tapes are replaced every 24 hours and kept for 28 days, and it is inconceivable that station staff would not keep to this procedure shortly after the July 7 bombings of the capital’s transport network that killed 56 people and a failed attempt to detonate devices on July 21.
Police have claimed that the stories that were circulated in the aftermath of the event— and used to excuse the killing—did not come from them, although they did nothing to contradict them. Until exposed as lies by ITV News, the public had been told that de Menezes had vaulted the ticket barrier at the station, had run away from the police and was wearing a heavy coat or jacket that could be concealing bombs. Witnesses were widely quoted in the press backing up this story, describing de Menezes as an Asian and even with electric wires poking out of his clothes. In fact, none of this was true. De Menezes wore a light jacket, used his pass for the ticket barrier, and moved leisurely into the station.
But ITV News has now pointed out in a follow-up report that the pathologist’s report on de Menezes’s death, five days after the shooting, referred to him having “vaulted over the ticket barriers” and run down the stairs of the tube station. Harriet Wistrich, the de Menezes family lawyer, has alleged that this false information in an official document could only have come from the police.
After ITV news revealed leaked evidence from the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) showing the extent of the lies and cover-up, de Menezes’s family and their lawyers demanded the resignation of Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair. Much of the media speculated that the revelations could lead to his resignation.
Not only had the lies been allowed to circulate in the media, but it also emerged that Commissioner Blair had attempted to delay the IPCC investigation, so that it only began taking evidence several days after the killing. Even more damning was the revelation that the Metropolitan Police, in a visit by Deputy Assistant Commissioner John Yates to Brazil, had offered the de Menezes family a £15,000 “ex gratia” payment.
According to the Mail on Sunday, the family had been pressured into meeting Yates without a lawyer present. De Menezes’s brother, Giovani, said, “They thought we were poor people, stupid people. We may be poor but we are not that stupid. We will not exchange money for my brother’s life—but we will punish them.”
The British government has come to Sir Ian Blair’s aid and insisted that he has its backing. This reinforces the political fact that de Menezes was shot in a cold-blooded manner to instill fear in the population and implement a shoot-to-kill policy that had been secretly decided on by Prime Minister Tony Blair and top officials two years previously. The state execution of de Menezes marks a watershed in the drive of the British ruling elite, under cover of the struggle against terrorism, to destroy the democratic rights of the people and establish the framework for a police state.
Tony Blair is on holiday, but his press secretary issued statements for two successive days declaring his complete confidence in Sir Ian. Home Secretary Charles Clarke and Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott have both made statements giving full support to the commissioner.
The entire spectrum of official politics in Britain has lined up behind Commissioner Blair and the government. The Tory opposition spokesperson on homeland security, Patrick Mercer, gave full support to the police, and no criticism of the police has emerged from officials in the Labour Party or the Liberal Democrats.
London’s Labour Party mayor, Ken Livingstone, could hardly have showered more praise on Ian Blair, suggesting that the demand for his resignation came from disgruntled police officers. “Here is a radical and reforming commissioner who is making major changes in the police. He has many enemies in there who really don’t want to see these changes, who want to hold on to the old ways...and I am sure many of them are taking every chance here to undermine him,” Livingstone told BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme.
The British establishment is also closing ranks to make sure that no further exposures relating to the de Menezes murder get into the public domain. Following the pattern of recent government inquiries, the IPCC investigation will be dragged for months and will attempt to bury the issue. Richard Latham QC, on behalf of the IPCC, said that there was only “an intention” to report by Christmas. He added, “There is no intention on the part of the IPCC of providing what might be described as a running commentary on the progress of the investigation.”
Using the justification that there may be criminal proceedings or internal Metropolitan Police disciplinary proceedings arising out of the IPCC’s investigation, and that the inquest will not be held for another six months, Latham said that “nothing should be disclosed or published which could prejudice this inquest or any potential criminal or disciplinary proceedings.”
Similar tactics were used in the Hutton inquiry—the investigation into the death of weapons inspector and whistleblower Dr. David Kelly, who exposed lies used by Prime Minister Tony Blair to drag the country into the war against Iraq. (See: “Britain: Lessons of the Hutton Inquiry”.)
Nor has the delegation from the Brazilian government that has travelled to Britain to investigate the circumstances of de Menezes’s killing done anything to challenge the British police’s or the Blair government’s role. According to BBC reports, Brazilian Ambassador Manoel Gomes Pereira said he did not believe there was a Scotland Yard cover-up and that he “completely” trusted the IPCC.
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Linda Validated Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Romford Essex
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Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: Watchdog: Police have footage of Tube death |
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http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article307982.ece
Watchdog: Police have footage of Tube death
By Ben Russell, Political Correspondent
Published: 25 August 2005
The head of the police complaints watchdog has insisted that investigators have obtained "crucial" CCTV evidence about the death of Jean Charles de Menezes.
Nick Hardwick, chairman of the Independent Police Complaints Commission, rejected claims of a cover-up, declaring that "I have all the information that I need" to investigate the events leading to the shooting of the electrician by anti-terrorist police a month ago.
Speaking after a meeting with a Brazilian delegation in Britain to investigate the shooting, Mr Hardwick insisted that the CCTV footage from the scene of the shooting at Stockwell Underground station was "very helpful".
He refused to clarify whether cameras in the station and the train were working and caught the final moments of Mr de Menezes' life.
However, members of the Brazilian delegation revealed that some of the CCTV cameras that would have filmed Mr de Menezes being shot may have been out of order. "Apparently there are parts of the film which do not exist," said Ambassador Manoel Gomes Pereira.
Ken Livingstone yesterday attacked the "many enemies" of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair for attempting to undermine him.
Speaking on BBC Radio 4, Mr Livingstone, the Mayor of London, heaped praise on Sir Ian, insisting that the Commissioner's reforms would help thwart any future terror strike on the capital."There are few people I have had to deal with in 30 years in public life I trust as totally as I do him," he said.
The head of the police complaints watchdog has insisted that investigators have obtained "crucial" CCTV evidence about the death of Jean Charles de Menezes.
Nick Hardwick, chairman of the Independent Police Complaints Commission, rejected claims of a cover-up, declaring that "I have all the information that I need" to investigate the events leading to the shooting of the electrician by anti-terrorist police a month ago.
Speaking after a meeting with a Brazilian delegation in Britain to investigate the shooting, Mr Hardwick insisted that the CCTV footage from the scene of the shooting at Stockwell Underground station was "very helpful".
He refused to clarify whether cameras in the station and the train were working and caught the final moments of Mr de Menezes' life.
However, members of the Brazilian delegation revealed that some of the CCTV cameras that would have filmed Mr de Menezes being shot may have been out of order. "Apparently there are parts of the film which do not exist," said Ambassador Manoel Gomes Pereira.
Ken Livingstone yesterday attacked the "many enemies" of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair for attempting to undermine him.
Speaking on BBC Radio 4, Mr Livingstone, the Mayor of London, heaped praise on Sir Ian, insisting that the Commissioner's reforms would help thwart any future terror strike on the capital."There are few people I have had to deal with in 30 years in public life I trust as totally as I do him," he said.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article307981.ece
Bus bomber stopped for a Big Mac before killing started
By Jason Bennetto and Kim Sengupta
Published: 25 August 2005
Suicide bomber Hasib Hussain ate a last meal at McDonald's before blowing up the No. 30 bus on 7 July, killing 13 people.
Hussain also made a number of telephone calls, at least one of which was to one of his fellow bombers, before carrying out his attack on the bus which exploded in Tavistock Square in central London. There were reports last night he may also have spoken to the other two bombers.
The final minutes of the 18-year-old from Holbeck in Leeds are believed to have been captured by a CCTV camera as he entered the fast food outlet after coming out of King's Cross station. Detectives have been attempting to piece together Hussain's "missing hour" between the moment he split up from his fellow bombers at King's Cross and got on the bus. The bus bomb exploded almost an hour after the three Tube bombs.
In particular they have been trying to ascertain whether Hussain may have met up with any "fixers" who helped in the multiple bombings which led to the deaths of 52 people.
There appears to be no evidence Hussain met anyone else during his visit to McDonald's and it is, as yet, unclear which route he took to his target.
However, investigators have ruled out the theory that he was forced to change his plan of action because part of the underground line was closed.
It has been claimed that his original plan to board a northbound Northern line train at King's Cross was thwarted after the line was suspended.
However, the particular section was, in fact, open and he could also have used alternative northbound Tube routes from the same station had that not been the case.
Hussain boarded the bus carrying 80 passengers, many of them evacuated from the Tube, at Tavistock Square and detonated his device at 9.47am - 57 minutes after the three other suicide bombers.
All four bombs were triggered by the bombers pressing a button and not through mobile telephones. The disclosure contradicted theories that the four may have been duped into becoming suicide bombers.
Scotland Yard has spent seven weeks looking at hours of CCTV footage, telephone records and witness statements.
As The Independent revealed almost two weeks ago they now confirm that the bombers were not being guided by a so-called mastermind and were not part of a larger organised group.
There appears to be no evidence, as yet, that people came into the country from abroad to help with the planning or execution of the attacks.
Police sources also confirmed that there did not appear to be any links between the July 7 and July 21 bombing teams. Instead it appears the second set were carrying out a "copycat" attack - contradicting the Home Secretary, Charles Clarke, who said there may be links.
Suicide bomber Hasib Hussain ate a last meal at McDonald's before blowing up the No. 30 bus on 7 July, killing 13 people.
Hussain also made a number of telephone calls, at least one of which was to one of his fellow bombers, before carrying out his attack on the bus which exploded in Tavistock Square in central London. There were reports last night he may also have spoken to the other two bombers.
The final minutes of the 18-year-old from Holbeck in Leeds are believed to have been captured by a CCTV camera as he entered the fast food outlet after coming out of King's Cross station. Detectives have been attempting to piece together Hussain's "missing hour" between the moment he split up from his fellow bombers at King's Cross and got on the bus. The bus bomb exploded almost an hour after the three Tube bombs.
In particular they have been trying to ascertain whether Hussain may have met up with any "fixers" who helped in the multiple bombings which led to the deaths of 52 people.
There appears to be no evidence Hussain met anyone else during his visit to McDonald's and it is, as yet, unclear which route he took to his target.
However, investigators have ruled out the theory that he was forced to change his plan of action because part of the underground line was closed.
It has been claimed that his original plan to board a northbound Northern line train at King's Cross was thwarted after the line was suspended.
However, the particular section was, in fact, open and he could also have used alternative northbound Tube routes from the same station had that not been the case.
Hussain boarded the bus carrying 80 passengers, many of them evacuated from the Tube, at Tavistock Square and detonated his device at 9.47am - 57 minutes after the three other suicide bombers.
All four bombs were triggered by the bombers pressing a button and not through mobile telephones. The disclosure contradicted theories that the four may have been duped into becoming suicide bombers.
Scotland Yard has spent seven weeks looking at hours of CCTV footage, telephone records and witness statements.
As The Independent revealed almost two weeks ago they now confirm that the bombers were not being guided by a so-called mastermind and were not part of a larger organised group.
There appears to be no evidence, as yet, that people came into the country from abroad to help with the planning or execution of the attacks.
Police sources also confirmed that there did not appear to be any links between the July 7 and July 21 bombing teams. Instead it appears the second set were carrying out a "copycat" attack - contradicting the Home Secretary, Charles Clarke, who said there may be links. |
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Wokeman Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: DE Menezes shooting: All the facts point to a cover-up |
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De Menezes Shooting: All the facts point to a cover up
Steve Watson/Infowars | August 27 2005
The London Metropolitan Police force is desperately scrambling around trying to cover up the botch job assassination they perpetrated on Jean Charles De Menezes on the London Underground almost five weeks ago. More and more facts are being leaked every day, faster than the Police force can cover them up.
The latest leak came yesterday in the London Guardian. It has emerged that an eyewitness statement made to the investigators, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, immediately after the shooting states that armed police officers fired eleven shots at Jean Charles de Menezes, evenly spaced for over 30 seconds. At the time only the eyewitness reports that were made public stated five or six shots were fired, this then changed up to eight a few days later, now it's eleven.
The account from Sue Thomason, a freelance journalist from south London, gives new detail of the shooting and of the terror witnesses endured. "I recall hearing gunshots... The shooting was coming from the carriage to the left of me. When I heard the gunshots I thought it was terrorists firing into the crowd. I thought about getting behind a seat... After the initial first shots... I left the carriage."
She also says the key detail she gave of the number of shots and the interval between them was missed from her final statement until she insisted it be included. This indicates that the cover up has extended into the IPCC investigation itself.
This is further evidenced by the fact that the IPCC director John Wadham last week spoke of the Metropolitan police's "resistance" to the IPCC running the inquiry. Furthermore it has been announced today also that an inquiry into the leak of IPCC findings about the death of the Brazilian has been demanded by both the Metropolitan Police Federation and the Police Federation.
The two federations last week sent letters to the Home Office calling for a person independent of both the police service and the IPCC to investigate the "unauthorized disclosure" of the documents.
The leaks are continually bringing out facts that directly contradict EVERYTHING the public has been told about the murder of an apparently innocent man. Is it any wonder then that the police want to find out the source of these leaks and cut it off. These leaks may be the only chance to ever discover the truth about what really happened on the 22nd July.
The inquest into 27-year-old De Menezes' death has been adjourned until 23 February to allow the investigators to collate all the evidence and complete their inquiry. As we have seen in the past with the Hutton and Butler inquires, and with the 9/11 commission, these so called independent inquiries are always overseen by the Government and used as a way of ironing out any glaring inconsistencies that have arisen since the event.
CCTV
Reports earlier this week suggested that Police officers and station managers were at odds over the existence of CCTV-footage of the shooting. Police documents submitted to the IPCC stated that "None of the cameras at the scene of the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Tube station on 22 July were working"
Firstly, if that is the case then how can they explain this?:
(Pic of male lying on floor of Tube carriage)
The police stated that there was no CCTV because disks had been removed to aid the police investigation into suspects in the failed 21 July attacks. But in addition to this they stated that:
"It has also been established that there has been a technical problem with the CCTV equipment on the relevant platform and no footage exists."
How could all four cameras around the platform have failed at the same time? Also, if the cameras had failed, why did the station log book contain no details of the fault? In a statement to The Mail on Sunday, Tube Lines said: "We are not aware of any faults on CCTV cameras at that station on that day. Nothing of that nature has been reported to us."
There is absolutely no doubt that the police are lying in this instance unless the above picture is a fake. There have been no denials of the authenticity of the above picture. Furthermore, the original leaked document describes CCTV footage, which shows Mr de Menezes entering Stockwell station at a "normal walking pace" and descended slowly on an escalator.
The document said: "At some point near the bottom he is seen to run across the concourse and enter the carriage before sitting in an available seat. This suggests that cameras ALL OVER the station were working.
Two days ago an IPPC spokesman said "There is CCTV footage in existence. It is interesting and it will be shown in court one day. I am not speculating about the content."
First it was mysteriously missing and now it's turned up again after public furor. However, parts are still erased from the tape. Would those parts happen to show the brutal murder of an innocent man who the police KNEW was not a suicide bomber? And would those parts further push the real question that no one seems to be asking, if they knew he wasn't a terrorist then why did they kill him?
Members of the Brazilian delegation that has wound up it's flying investigative visit, revealed that some of the CCTV cameras that would have filmed Mr de Menezes being shot may have been out of order. "Apparently there are parts of the film which do not exist," said Ambassador Manoel Gomes Pereira. Also despite being "perplexed" by leaks from the inquiry that contradicted early police and eyewitness reports, the delegation has decided in four days that there is no cover up and has gone home. It seems that the visit was nothing more than a publicity stunt to appease the thousands of angry protesters in Brazil.
Still there's no cover up, just shut up and believe whatever they tell you the latest is. Isn't it cute when the overwhelming benefits of CCTV is rammed down our throats whenever they catch a bad guy but whenever the police get caught covering up their own criminal activities the fantastic cameras mysteriously malfunction! It's just one big coincidence, just like all the cameras strangely malfunctioning right as Diana's Mercedes entered a Pont D'alma tunnel crawling with MI6 agents!
Lies Lies So Many Lies
Sir Ian Blair has lied so many times he has contradicted himself over the issue of the shooting. Blair gave an interview on August 21st in which he admitted he did not know his officers had killed an innocent man until a day after Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead at Stockwell Tube station. Yet THREE DAYS EARLIER on August 18th, it emerged that Blair himself "tried to halt an independent inquiry into the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes just hours after the innocent Brazilian's death".
Why would he do this if he knew nothing about it? Sir Ian rejected claims that his attempted blocking of the IPCC was part of a cover-up by saying: "It is important that Londoners hear this: if you were going to define how to do a cover-up you would not write a letter to the permanent secretary of the Home Office, copying it to the chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority and the chairman of the IPCC."
That's precisely what you would do to cover your tracks! Then when the truth surfaced you would use those previous actions to defend yourself, just as Sir Blair has done. He has been unrelenting over the defence of himself and his officers, saying that "Tragic as the death of Mr Menezes is, and we have apologised for it and we take responsibility for it, it is one death out of 57." Yes it is, one unnecessary death.
We Also know that the officers who shot De Menezes KNEW he wasn't a threat at the time they accosted him:
A police source said: 'There is no way those three guys would have been on the train carriage with him [de Menezes] if they believed he was carrying a bomb. Nothing he did gave the surveillance team the impression that he was carrying a device.''
Ian Blair gave a press briefing just after 3.30pm on the day Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead, on the morning of July 22 at Stockwell station, south London. Separate sources told the London Guardian that by the afternoon of the shooting, senior officers had strong suspicions that the man killed was not a terrorist or connected to attempted attacks on London the previous day.
So why wasn't the Chief of Police immediately told that the man his officers had shot had not been a threat? Why was it over 24 hours before the man in charge of London's entire Police Force was informed of De Menezes' identity?
Now it has emerged that De Menezes' parents were offered £15,000 in compensation for the loss of their son, pointing towards an attempt to buy them off. Initial press reports suggested the figure was much higher, possibly close to half a million pounds. Why would that amount of compensation be offered BEFORE an inquiry has even been completed? Police have denied such offers were made.
The Main discrepancies and false information
If we go back over the main evidence and consider the facts, every indication suggests that a cover up has been perpetrated.
The BBC compiled a comparison of the details made public in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, on 22 July, at Stockwell Tube station in south London, with those that have emerged from the leaked documents. Here it is again to clarify the discrepancies and false information.
IDENTIFICATION
Sir Ian Blair said on the day of the shooting that it had been "directly linked to the ongoing and expanding anti-terrorist operation".
The man was under observation because he emerged from a block of flats in Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, where police believed a man connected with the four attempted bombings on the London Tube and bus network on 21 July was staying.
They followed him during his bus journey to Stockwell Tube station, where a Scotland Yard spokesman said his "clothing and behaviour" added to their suspicions.
Police staking out the flats, where Mr Menezes lived, decided he matched the description of one of the suspects they were seeking, according to the documents.
One officer reportedly said he "checked the photographs" and "thought it would be worth someone else having a look". However, he was unable to video the man for subsequent confirmation because he was "relieving" himself at the time.
By the time Mr Menezes reached Stockwell station, armed police received "positive identification" that the man they were following was one of the suspects.
CLOTHING
One eyewitness, Mark Whitby, said Mr Menezes was wearing a thick padded jacket, despite the warm weather, which could have been used to conceal something underneath.
Another witness said he had a black baseball cap and blue fleece.
Scotland Yard had said on the day that his clothing had added to suspicions but had not elaborated further.
Some of the leaked documents and accompanying CCTV footage suggest Mr Menezes was wearing a blue denim jacket.
This is also referred to by a member of the police surveillance team who observed him on board a Tube train.
PURSUIT
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said after the shooting: "As I understand the situation the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."
One eyewitness said at the time that Mr Menezes had vaulted over the ticket barriers just inside the entrance to Stockwell station as he was being pursued.
CCTV footage is said to show the man walking at normal pace into the station, picking up a copy of a free newspaper and apparently passing through the barriers before descending the escalator to the platform and running to a train.
He boarded a Tube train, paused, looking left and right, and sat in a seat facing the platform.
THE SHOOTING
Although police would not give details of the incident because of the independent investigation, they did say shortly after it happened that officers had shot a man dead in Stockwell station.
The following day Scotland Yard admitted Mr Menezes had been shot by mistake and apologised to his family for the "tragedy".
Met chief Sir Ian Blair said his officers had tried to get Mr Menezes under control before shooting him.
A witness spoke of a man jumping on to the stationary train and grabbing a man sitting opposite. As the witness ran off the train he heard four "dull bangs", which he realised were shots.
Another said he saw Mr Menezes run on to the train, "hotly pursued" by what he took to be three plain-clothes police officers. He said they pushed him to the floor and shot him five times.
At the opening of the inquest into his death, police told the coroner Mr Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.
In one of the leaked documents, said to be a statement from one of the police surveillance team, the witness describes hearing shouting - including the word "police".
The statement says Mr Menezes stood up and advanced towards the witness and armed police.
He adds: "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side."
He said he pushed the man back into his seat.
It was only after he had restrained him that he heard a gun shot.
The documents say that a post-mortem examination showed Mr Menezes had been shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but that three other bullets had missed him.
Of course the main evidence came from the leaked documents of August 17th. Yet there were rumblings of contradictions to the official version of events weeks before this.
As Green authority member Jenny Jones has pointed out, the police did nothing to stop the circulation of false information. In fact they were the ones putting it out.
As The De Menezes family solicitor, Harriet Wistrich has asserted "The police must have been partly responsible for that because it was the information that was given to the pathologist who performed the postmortem examination."
One witness in the carriage, Mark Whitby, 47, said shortly after the shooting that he saw a man who looked Pakistani "hotly pursued by what I knew to be three plain-clothes police officers" and wearing "a coat like you would wear in winter, a sort of padded jacket". How could this witness have thought a denim jacket was a heavy winter coat? And does Jean Charles De Menezes really look like a Pakistani man?
Whitby said the man "looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox" and "absolutely petrified" when he got on the train. These are clearly lies, as it has been revealed that De Menezes walked calmly onto the train and sat down. This witness must have been either very wrong or he was an intelligence plant, deliberately putting out false information.
I can clearly remember Mr Whitby's account as it was one of the only ones recorded and played and replayed over and over on all the news channels all day long. He also made it very clear that there were five shots fired, again this is not true, there were at least eleven. Mr Whitby has since refused to comment on the latest disclosures.
Incompetence? Not likely
Whilst everyone is distracted by the "cover up", questions still need to be asked concerning the identity of Jean Charles De Menezes.
As we know, the police who followed him were a separate group to the SO19 officers who executed him. The apparent reason he was followed was that he was living in the same block as one of the suspected 21/7 failed bombers. Why would the police Surveil the building for 24 hours without investigating the flat where the bomb suspect lived..
Why would they let a suspect leave? On many other occasions after the bombings we saw how police raided and evacuated areas they believed were home to suspects. In one bizarre raid a man was forced into a "clean suit" on the street. If they thought suspects were in De Menezes' block, why not go in and get them?
Furthermore, why would police allow a bus/tube suicide bombing "suspect" to leave the area, board a bus, then board the tube before confronting him?
At his press conference Sir Ian told reporters: "This operation was directly linked to the ongoing terrorist investigation." This may not have been untrue. On top of all the other supposed "botch ups" concerning De Menezes, are we really to believe over and over that the police and special forces are this incompetent?
Did De Menezes know or see something he was not supposed to? On 7/7 there was contradiction between the statements of the Transport Police, Metronet and the National Grid. The former two declared there WAS a power surge which "caused the explosions". The latter - the National Grid, DENIED there was ever a power surge. Menezes was a contract electrician. Could he have been involved in some sort of work on the London underground?
With the reports of the the bombs UNDER the trains or ON the rails, is it possible that they were detonated by a calculated & engineered power surge? That would explain reports of a power surge along with survivors' reports of an "electrical like discharge" before the explosions themselves.
We may never know the real facts, but one thing is clear, Special forces do not go around in public killing people considered not to be an immediate threat without a good reason. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: WHERE & HOW WAS MENEZES KILLED? |
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Any answers to the following questions...
1. Originally Menezes was chased and shot for jumping over a barrier at Stockwell station.
2. Or was it because he had a ticket, picked up a copy of the Metro and looked too foreign in a London station?
3. Was he followed from his house and allowed to go into a tube station as he was an alleged suicide bomber wearing a t-shirt?
4. Maybe he was a shoe bomber?
5. He was then shot for 7 or was it 8 times?
6. The cameras at Stockwell tube weren't functioning that day, like the bus bombing cameras or were they functioning and no video evidence is released?
7. Or was it handed over to the police and then destroyed? Or did the Anti-Terrorist Police have priority over the Police?
8. A body is shown on the floor in what appears to be shot to the head? is that Menezes?
9. What evidence exists that Menezes was shot in Stockwell if he was followed from his house but the video evidence at the station has not been shown or on the platform?
10. If the story has changed so many times about the way he was shot which story is the real one? |
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Alan Firminger Minor Poster
Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 54 Location: South London, UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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When it happened the announcement was quote : a man has been shot by police. That is code for an innocent man ... . If Jean Paul had been a bomber he would have been described as that.
That is why Sir Ian Blair claiming not to know is a fraud and Ken Livingstone supporting him is now the gauleiter for London. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: Reckless strategy of shoot to kill |
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Interseting piece by ex-metropolitan police commander
Reckless strategy of shoot to kill
Wednesday October 5, 2005
The Guardian
The debate on "shoot to kill" and operation Kratos has missed the point (Brazil warns of climate of fear, September 30). The police have always had a "shoot to stop" policy. In the days of the Webley and Smith & Wesson handguns, with low-velocity ammunition, there was a 40% survival rate of persons who were shot in the torso. Shoot to stop became shoot to kill with the introduction of the Ruger pistol with high-velocity ammunition. The chances of surviving a double shot in the torso became nil. Shoot to stop now means shoot to kill.
Article continues
The introduction of tactics derived from the Israeli security forces has further confused the issue. Operation Kratos directs armed police to make a double headshot when dealing with a known suicide bomber. The Israeli experience is that they are often confronted with a suicide bomber approaching a military checkpoint. If he fails to stop and comply with directions, he is shot dead through the head. I cannot imagine any scenario in the UK where a suicide bomber who is known to be carrying a bomb confronts armed police officers. In reality the only way this could happen is if there is a witness who informs police that a suspect is carrying a bomb; the chances of this happening are remote. I find it astonishing that the police service would adopt tactics to deal with a remote possibility rather than with reality.
Talking tough about shoot to kill and the "shot of excellence" through the mouth has tended to lower the caution level normally exercised by armed police. The tragic shooting of Mr De Menezes is the direct result of a reckless strategy and those responsible for its introduction and implementation must take as much share of the blame as those who fired the shots.
John O'Connor
Former commander, Metropolitan police |
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paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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There is, is there not?, some connection between the Menezes assassination and those SAS-employed mercenaries caught shooting up Iraqi police and with a car full of explosives
The taking-a-piss watcher on the Menezes household and the Basra potential bombers are all part of the same outfit, are they not?
Possibly the shooters are more part of these rather than armed Met officers |
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Wokeman Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: Met. police suppress files that tell full shooting story |
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Sunday, March 5th, 2006
Police hold back dossier that could reveal Sir Ian Blair’s role after Tube killing fiasco.
The Metropolitan police have blocked attempts by independent investigators to obtain sensitive files about the role that Sir Ian Blair, the commissioner, played after the shooting of an innocent Brazilian man on the London Underground.
Well-placed sources say the Met has declined repeated requests by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) to disclose hundreds of pages of internal papers. The documents give the Met’s private assessment of the botched counter-terrorist operation that led to Jean Charles de Menezes mistakenly being killed by Yard marksmen at Stockwell Underground station last July.
The IPCC wants the Yard files handed over before it reviews Blair’s response to claims by the de Menezes family that he made false or misleading statements after the shooting.
The fresh legal tussle has reignited claims by the de Menezes family that the Yard is attempting to cover up its true culpability for the shooting.
This weekend Harriet Wistrich, the family’s solicitor, said: “Every time the police attempt to resist providing information in relation to the shooting it creates the impression they have something to hide. If they’ve nothing to hide, why not come forward with it?”
The papers include discussions about how much compensation the Met thinks it should pay to the de Menezes family; the risk that individual officers might face murder or manslaughter charges; the vulnerability of Blair and the Met to an action for civil damages; and whether Special Branch officers altered surveillance logs to cover up the mistaken identification.
De Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician, was shot eight times by two Scotland Yard marksmen on a train at Stockwell. The shooting happened on July 22, the day after four suspected Islamist suicide bombers tried to detonate bombs on three Tube trains and a bus.
At the inquest into de Menezes’s death 10 days ago, John Cummins, the senior IPCC investigator, said publicly he had experienced no obstruction from the Met in his inquiry.
But behind the scenes, the IPCC has pressed for the Met files at two meetings in the past three weeks. The commission has told Blair it is entitled to them under section 17 of the 2002 Police Reform Act, which gives it the power to demand “all such information and documents” it judges necessary to conduct its inquiries.
The Met has declined to surrender the files. Scotland Yard bosses insist the papers are “legally privileged” and they are under no legal obligation to disclose them.
One senior source said the discussions had been “cordial” and did not amount to a dispute. He said: “Quite properly, if you are under suspicion and you take legal advice you expect those conversations to be privileged.
“But the IPCC thinks section 17 trumps everything. They think they are entitled to everything they want. We’re saying as a point of principle here, no, they are not.”
Behind the scenes, the tension between the Met and the IPCC has been simmering since the day of the shooting.
Part of the IPCC’s own file on the killing of de Menezes, showing police blunders, was leaked last September.
The file showed how an undercover officer who was supposed to be watching for a suspected terrorist to emerge from a house in Tulse Hill, south London, was relieving himself at the time de Menezes appeared.The disclosures infuriated Blair and led to renewed calls for his resignation.
The Crown Prosecution Service has said it hopes to decide by Easter whether any officers will be charged with murder or manslaughter.
Last December the IPCC began a second inquiry after the de Menezes family complained that Blair had misled the public over the shooting. Senior Yard insiders fear this new inquiry could potentially force Blair to resign.
It is focusing on comments Blair made at a press conference a few hours after the shooting at which he said: “I understand the man was challenged and refused to obey.” That statement turned out to be false. In a separate statement, cleared by at least three senior officers, the Yard’s press bureau said of de Menezes that “his clothing and his behaviour at the station added to suspicions”.
The Met now accepts that there was nothing suspicious about his clothes or behaviour.
A spokeswoman for the IPCC said: “Our investigation is progressing and we are working with the Metropolitan police to ensure we have access to all the necessary material.”
Lula da Silva, the Brazilian president, is expected to raise the case when he visits Britain this week. |
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Prole Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: Panorama Wed 8th march |
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Hot on the heels of the resounding success of Panorama's July 7th documentary, The Day The Bombs Came, the British Brainwashing Corporation follow up with 'Stockwell: Countdown to killing':
Stockwell: Countdown to killing
Peter Taylor gives the definitive account of the hugely controversial alleged "shoot-to-kill" policy, Operation Kratos, that led to the tragic killing of a Brazilian man at Stockwell tube station last July.
Jean Charles De Menezes
Wednesday 8 March 2006
21:00 GMT, BBC One
Online at bbc.co.uk/panorama
Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead by members of the Metropolitan Police's elite CO19 firearms team.
Panorama investigates how Kratos evolved and how the operation went so dramatically wrong.
The programme endeavours to explain what really happened that day.
Featuring exclusive interviews with senior Met officers involved in the evolution and implementation of Kratos and filming of CO19's training, the programme explores the wider issues raised by Stockwell and follows the de Menezes family from Brazil to London in their quest for justice.
Production team:
Reporter: Peter Taylor
Producer: Howard Bradburn
Editor: Mike Robinson
This special edition of Panorama will be broadcast on Wednesday 8 March 2006 at 21:00 GMT on BBC One.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4779602.stm _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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Wokeman Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Rain On Their Parade - Jean Charles Menezes |
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We are still not being told the truth about what happened to Jean Charles Menezes? The Evening Standard carries the story again today and tells us that "Police admit a whole series of blunders". I wonder what kind of blunders they are talking about? The information given us that the reason for concern that Jean Charles was a possible suicide bomber was that he was wearing "a heavy woollen jacket" (which could obviously have concealed a suicide bomber's belt of bombs). That wasn't a blunder, that was a lie. And that lie was told, IMO, not because someone had made a blunder but because along with other activities attributed to the Brazilian electrician, he ran to escape officers (he did not), he vaulted the barrier (again, he did not, he even stopped to pick up a free newspaper) it gave a justification for shooting him. Had that story held up, as far as the police were concerned, all would have been well. A young man, acting suspiciously had been shot by police to prevent his carrying out what they believed was a terrorist attack. But someone rained on their parade. Someone leaked confidential information ie, a picture showing Jean Charles laying dead on the floor of the Tube train, and probably the news that he was not wearing a "heavy woollen jacket". So once the Met. police's tale had been shown to be not true, where was the justification to employ lethal force. It simply wasn't there. When Jean Charles died, he wore nothing that could have aroused suspicions of his being a suicide bomber. But eleven bullets were pumped into him, at 3 second intervals. There was a reason to kill him? But what was it. Was it because of what he knew, or what he had seen? |
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insidejob Validated Poster
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 475 Location: North London
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: De Menezes - planned MI5 execution, not 'tragic mistake' |
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It looks clear that De Menezes death was no 'tragic mistake'. It looks likely that MI5 killed De Menezes and the speculation that they wanted to shut him up over his possible involvement as an electrician in the 7/7 set up is probably true. The Met Police has nothing to do with his killing and the role of Commissioner Sir Ian Blair is to take the flak for MI5. Nothing will happen to Sir Ian Blair. It is the Police commander, Cresida Dick who will take the blame.
The Panorama programme skated over:
- what order Cresida Dick gave to firearm officers and other officers
- who incorrectly identified De Menezes
The key clues are:
- the unbelievable claim that the Special Reconnaissance Regiment could not identify De Menezes when he first left the block of flats
- the involvement of Special Branch, who changed log records
- allowing De Menezes to take two buses without the police reconnaissance Regiment identifying him
- the delay of the tube train in which De Menezes was sitting
We can surmise that what actually happened was that:
- SAS officers were seconded to the Met Police’s Anti-Terrorist firearms officers
- the apparently newly created Special Reconnaissance Regiment is made up of SAS officers
- there were two chains of command – the official one under Cresida Dick and the unofficial one under MI5
- Cresida Dick gave orders to apprehend De Menezes
- MI5 had already given orders to the SAS to kill him
- SAS used their own training (not Operation Kratos) to kill De Menezes, which is through use of multiple shots
- MI5 and SAS knew De Menezes would make his way to Stockwell, Cresida Dick did not
- the train was deliberately delayed, wittingly or unwittingly, in order to allow the SAS to move in to kill him
- Ian Blair delayed the involvement of the Independent Police Complaints Commission because their powers only related to the police, i.e. the police would get the blame
- Ian Blair had no idea as to why MI5 wanted De Menezes dead (although, he may have his suspicions now)
- there is a secret row going on between the police officer and Sir Ian Blair and the police and MI5/Ministry of Defence – the police officers on the ground have no intention of taking the blame.
Panorama did not explain why the Special Reconnaissance Regiment was involved. It did not attempt to explain why Special Branch was involved. Special Branch is under the control of MI5 and police chief constables have no power over them. It did not attempt to explain what orders Cresida Dick gave her officers, although it suggested the police positively identified De Menezes as one of the 21/7 bombers. It did not explain why the train hung around in time for the ‘firearm officers’ to get to it. Was it by accident that the train hung around for what was at least two minutes? I don’t believe it. Panorama did not positively identify the gym card that supposedly led them to De Menezes flat as belonging to one of the 21/7 bombers. It did not say whether one of the bombers lived in the block of flats – this means he didn’t.
Operation Kratos is an irrelevant diversion. Radio communication between officers in the tube is an irrelevant diversion. Special Branch changed logs to blame the police not the Special Reconnaissance Regiment. They were probably two Regiment officers and not one and they would not have switched off the video surveillance – as the programme stated which is totally ridiculous. It may be that some SO19 Anti-Terrorist officers were among SAS officers. It is likely that the police reconnaissance following De Menezes were told by the Regiment that he was a 21/7 bomber but they did not believe him. This would explain why they allowed him to go all the way to Stockwell. The police probably identified him as someone not carrying weapons and this was communicated to Cresida Dick. Dick therefore though apprehension was what should happen. It is likely that the disinformation campaign against De Menezes came from MI5 and Sir Ian Blair.
Wikipedia states:
“Several commentators suggested that special forces may have been involved in the shooting. Professor Michael Clarke, Professor of Defence Studies at King's College London, went as far as to say that unless there had been a major change in policy it was likely that it was not the police who had carried out the shooting, but special forces:
"To have bullets pumped into him like this suggests quite a lot about him and what the authorities, whoever they are, assumed about him. The fact that he was shot in this way strongly suggests that it was someone the authorities knew and suspected he was carrying explosives on him. […] You don't shoot somebody five times if you think you might have made a mistake and may be able to arrest him. […] Even Special Branch and SO19 are not trained to do this sort of thing. It's plausible that they were special forces or elements of special forces." [44]
We can conclude that it is not credible that the police would have judged De Menezes as carrying weapons.
http://www.sundayherald.com/51372
A COVER-UP? AND IF SO … WHY?
By James Cusick
21 August 2005
“However, the day before the admission that there was no anti-terrorism link, Sir Ian wrote to John Gieve, the permanent secretary at the Home Office, arguing that an internal inquiry into the killing should take precedence over an independent investigation. But why was Ian Blair worried that an IPCC investigation could impact on security and intelligence? Was he concerned that it was not just his force’s officers, but also the personnel of the new special forces regiment, the SRR, who would be exposed? He told Gieve that he feared the IPCC would have to inform the family of everything that was found – and “this investigation involves secret intelligence”. It was also believed that any outside investigation could damage the morale of SO19.”
We need to find out where De Menezes was work in the lead up to 7/7. |
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