For all the 'brave troops'...

[prole art threat]

..who have served or are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, I jus wanted to say...
You are nothing but Nazi stormtrooping footsoldiers furthering the Neocon agenda.

You are nothing but child killers in uniform.

Have a lovely christmas.

[Hazzard]

You are ignorant and impertinant.

Do you even realise what you are saying? You have just roled every single service man and woman into one single roll. This is reactionary, knee-jerk nonsence without even a hint of consideration or compassion for those who believe they are serving a good cause.

I wont go as far as saying that under such immense pressure, that some dont reveal themselves to be who they really are, cold blooded killers. However the real man inside of you is revealed when one us put under the constant threat of being blown to smitherines every 5 minutes of the day. Day in day out for 5 years.

Have you ever been near a car bomb? Have you ever been surounded by forign speaking people who all hate you, and half may just be the person to kill you, day in day out? Have you ever experienced gut wrenching fear for your life for extended periods of up to 4 months without a break?

Have you ever been in a situation where you thought you were doing someing for the good of someone, only to realise you had been lied to, and left picking up the peices?

Incredible ignorance being displayed on your part sir. Please reconsider.

[telecasterisation]

Hazzard wrote;

[spiv]

I go along with elements of the sentiments of Prole Art Threat and Telecaterisation here. Our troops, very brave and professional though they may be, are both in the forces by choice, and are also there for our nation's defence

As far as I am aware, not one Afghan or Iraqi person has threatened these shores, so there is no question of defence here.

Our troops are just doing their jobs, no more, no less. The trouble is, their job is not that of invading foreign countries which have never attacked our own country.

So the realities are that it is Bliar and his war mongering Government Cronies who are the war criminals here, not least because there is no legal basis for any occupation of Afghanistan or Iraq. It is Blair who is, in my own opinion, the "Nazi stormtrooping footsoldier", except that he hasn't even got the guts to pick up a gun and fight himself, he would rather send others to do his dirty work!!

[Thermate]

Many of our forces know full well they are being used and abused, even the top brass, both here and in the US. How much they will stand for is another question. Military men tend to like war, but guerilla warfare and wanton murder of civilians isn't quite so popular methinks.

[Hazzard]

FFS guys he called them ALL nazi child killers. Im not debating him im telling him hes wrong!

If he is right than we all pay our taxes to support nazi child killers.

"Yes but we have to or we go to prison"

Ok so fight it and die trying for something you believe in.

"No becuase im scared. Id rather live with the knowledge that it isnt affecting me"

So shut up then and stop judging others. Many servicemen and women thought they were joining up for a good cuase as many people dont have the ability to screen out propaganda like those who subscribe to this forum. FFS compassion IS the word I was looking for. Compassion isnt something you target specific people with. If you are a compassionate person, you understand the pressures and pains that effect both the middle eastern peoples and the soldiers who for the most part believed they were there for them but were lied to and left to pick up the pieces.

[prole art threat]

These 'brave men and women' drop bombs on innocent civillians. They never question the motives of their superiors. In my book, killing innocent children is an evil and wicked act. These are not 'wars', they are nazi stormtrooping imperialist invasions.

I will stick by my comments because I have 100% conviction in them. Anyone who supports these acts is an accessory to 'child murder' too.

[telecasterisation]

[prole art threat]

[prole art threat]

By the way I think the people voting 'Other' is a bit of a 'cop out' unless you stand up and give your reasons.

[prole art threat]

Remember, without the help of these dunderhead troopers, the Neocons would have never got as far as they have in enslaving our planet. These soldiers, sailors and pilots are a menace to humanity.

[Hazzard]

THEN GO TO PRISON FOR NOT PAYING YOUR TAXES AND NOT SUPPORTING THEIR CHILD KILLING THEN!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

[prole art threat]

[Hazzard]

Gibberish? Im simply saying that you are just as morally responsible. How about speaking to ex-servicemen and women? How about talking to those on leave and trying to voice your opion in a resonable way?

Instead of posting murmurings on forums about baby killing and child murdering.

I wont say these things happen becuase they do and there are many troops who do have a screw loose and are corrupt idiots with guns that just love the thrill of killing people who cant stand up against them, they should be imprisoned and left to rot in my opinion. BUT YOU CANNOT ROLL EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM UP INTO ONE BALL. Its just crazy.

[TimmyG]

you can't blame the troops! fukcin hell

like it or not, we need an army.. unfortunately when you sign up you don't get the choice of which countries wars you'd like to fight and which you'd rather not.

the iraq war is unjustified. the troops are just doing their job. not a very nice job. most of them aren't aware of the real issues

[telecasterisation]

[TimmyG]

we need an army because we are a state.
i wish we didn't need one

i don't think we need an army to protect ourselves from iraq

[Hazzard]

Telecast are you an anarchist? Or a utopian?

We need an army becuase we need to defend ourselves from the threat of others countries who require power or resources.

We luckily arnt in that situation, however we have many enemies no thanks to the manipulations of the NWO to gear us towards hatred of eachother in order to justify control.

Its a catch 22. They make people hate us, we need an army to defend ourselves against the people they make our enemies. But without their intervention we would still require an army lest someone decide to invade ot attack on their own back.

Come on man your just being contrary now.

[flamesong]

As an ex-serviceman myself - 10 years in the Fleet Air Arm - I thought I would wait to see what other people had to say before adding my own comments. After all, that is quite a damning opening post.

First of all, and perhaps surprisingly, I have to agree with the poster, prole art threat, when s/he expresses dismay at the members who voted, 'Other'. After all, the question is quite unambiguous, 'The troops are nothing more than 'child killers in uniform'. I'd say the answers to that question are fairly well covered with a simple yes or no option. After all, if they are anything more than 'child killers in uniform' the answer has to be no.

But apart from that, the questioner exhibits unparalleled ignorance on so many levels, I hardly know where to begin.

Perhaps by saying that some of the bravest and most active anti-war campaigners around the world are ex-servicemen. I made a post yesterday about S. Brian Wilson who lost both his legs under the wheels of a train which was shipping weapons destined for Central America. I also consider it a privilege to count Dennis Kyne amongst my friends - as a serving Drill Sergeant he took to the streets, in uniform, and protested against the war in Iraq. Please take a few seconds to watch this short clip:

http://www.flamesong.fsworld.co.uk/images/movies/WITEdennis.mov

During the Falklands War, I lost several friends including my best friend, Mark Henderson, who was blown to pieces by a direct hit by an Exocet missile on board HMS Glamorgan. Anybody who remembers the Falklands War will remember that there was no shortage of the odd multitude to wave them off with red white and blue bunting when it came to sending the boys off to do their patriotic duty. But before it began people were looking for the Falklands in their atlases off the coast of Scotland - nobody seemed to even know where they were.

Another ex-serving friend harboured the notorious Gulf War deserter, Vic Williams, when the army, the police and the press scoured the country looking for him.

prole art threat also seems to forget that leaving the forces isn't as simple as handing in ones notice. Each service is different but engagements are typically for twelve years from the age of 17.5. Sixteen year old recruits were, and probably still are, targeted by numerous vendors offering credit and insurance - often in the mess halls - so even though they could not sign up until they were 17.5, they were already financially committed. Debt was a major factor in my difficulty in getting out.

Recruitment in the US is now reminiscent of the old tales of press gangs. Recruiting officers, normally NCO's, troll shopping malls using all kinds of intimidating tactics in an attempt to humiliate young people into signing up. And if that doesn't work, just the prospect of having a bit of money, being able to pay for college and even, believe it or not, cosmetic surgery are effective inducements.

I will not pretend that I do not believe that there are many in the armed forces who have the mentality portrayed in the question - training is designed to remove ones questioning and implant discipline and obedience. I know I was a small cog in an enormous machine which was designed to kill.

But the machine is far greater than the armed forces. I know of a devout Christian woman who works with homeless people whose husband, also a Christian works for British Aerospace. Take another step back and ask yourself where your bank invests [i]your[/] money.

And if make statements like the one to preface your question and you continue to pay taxes - you too are nothing but a child killer without a uniform. It's about time you realised that you don't have the guts to do anything about it!

[Ally]

If it weren't for plonkers queing up to join the army we'd have no wars. I don't see bush or blair getting their hands bloody.

[flamesong]

[Hazzard]

Exactly! MY GOD!

How insanely niaeve do you have to be to actualy believe that if they had a recruitment shortage they wouldnt begin knocking on 18-30's all across the country!

Man, I am just speachless. The teenager mentality is just appalling!

[Patrick Brown]

I don't know what to say about all this! Here's an interesting translation of a couple of sections from the Tao Te Ching:

[Bicnarok]

This is a very ill informed and provoking thread.

Theres various reasons why people join the army

#No job,they want to learn a trade.
#family tradtition.
#The armys life apeals to the individual.
#To Protect thier country.
#on the spur of the moment

No one joins the forces so they can kill people, go to war never mind hurting kids. Only when you´ve been in the situation can you even begin to understand the confusion young people get in when in these stress situations.

I was in the first Gulf war, so I have a vague idea of what its like.

[conspiracy analyst]

which are occupying Iraq aren't directly involved in child killing. The fact that they are there implicates them. But their presence is more psychological to instill the message that resistance is futile.

That there are elements within the occupation armies that are involved in rape and pillage and killing innocent civilians also is true.

Death squads modelled on what the US did in Central America
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1433353,00.html

has probably more to do with a section of the occupation armies.

Calling everyone a child killer which is an obvious sentiment does not aid in influencing either ex-soldiers or the mothers of dead soldiers.

A soldier is not a general or a politician in the same way as a cleaner of a bank isn't the bank manager.

[telecasterisation]

[flamesong]

And, by extension, if we had no cops we'd have no crime, eh?

I cannot honestly believe that you just posted that!

If we had no professional football teams we would have no football?

Like Bill Hicks said about pornography, 'I'll tell you what causes sexual thought...

...drum roll...

...having a dick! That's what causes sexual thought!'

If we had no children we would have no wars!

Tribes were fighting territorial wars millennia before the MIC privatised it!

[mason-free party]

thou shalt not kill...even if its your worst enemy ...soldiers must grasp this fact or they are nothing but hired murderers...fact

[Bicnarok]

[prole art threat]