Shayler Talks 911 on Sky News

[poiuytr]

[kbo234]

Newcomers and guests to this site must be quite puzzled by this thread. Please let me try to explain.

David Shayler and Annie Machon are this country's foremost (but not, by any means, only) propagandists for the 9/11 Truth movement. This movement has grown massively and our message has reached millions of ears over the last 18 months or so.

We, as you will surely understand by now, are accusing the intelligence services of the US/UK/Israel of being responsible for and, together with elements of the US military, carrying out a most astonishing and wicked crime.

These services and their controllers are very alarmed by this rapid dissemination of the evidence against them and the fact that huge numbers of people in the US and, to a lesser degree, here now believe that 9/11 was an 'inside job'.

Evidence of this alarm is that the mainstream media now feel forced to report on 9/11 'conspiracy theories', if only to ridicule them. Of course, their silence on the controversial evidence over the last 5 years is, in itself, evidence of an establishment cover up.

It is not surprising, then, that these well-funded services should try to split and damage our movement. An obvious tactic is to attempt to discredit our most effective activists.

That is what is going on on this thread.

Unfortunately for them, many of us know David and Annie and do not harbour the slightest doubt against their personal integrity. Having spoken to David a few times I know that much of his energy goes into thinking about issues way beyond the 'hard facts' of 9/11. These he takes as read and he finds it difficult to rein himself in when pressed about his views in the public domain. In fact the Sky interview was an improvement on his last interview where he did plainly state his preference towards the 'no planes theory'. This time he did not. David is, in my estimation, utterly honest, right or wrong (nearly always right, by the way).

I must say, in his favour, that in conversation he is the kind of fellow who doesn't hold back and always tends to say exactly what he thinks.

This is not how shills behave...openly, transparently.

Remember also that David has paid and continues to pay a very serious price for his stand against the intelligence services.

He and Annie should feel heartened by the attentions of the likes of Commanderson, Piouytre and Larry O'Hara.

They should think of it as recognition for a job well done.

Guests and newcomers to this site might not understand this yet but the rest of us do.

Hoping to see many of you at the London group Christmas party.

[lifeinthed]

Can I assume that the people replying to insult poiuytr and commanderson fully reject any notion of David and Annie being "shills" or whatever you want to call it? I'm not saying for a second that I'm anywhere near 100% convinced, but jesus, spidey senses should be at least tingling about this stuff. We should all be open to the possibility due to how potentially harmful it would be, and it's nothing like as unquestionable as some people are implying, and seeing as a DEFINITE conclusion on this matter doesn't really seem possible due to the small amounts of evidence available at the moment, an air of skepticism about their actions and words in the future is surely a minimum? If you accept that there are "shills" walking among us then I'm not sure how obvious you're hoping that the signs will be before your suspicions are aroused, but your standards must be set way too high at the moment.

Going back to the NPT issue, how many of you were introduced to the world of "conspiracies" via the evidence for this? I bet it's not many to none at all. That's because it's an issue that certain people have worked their way towards over time, gradually increasing their threshold for believing in such previously unimaginable things. Even if he is a genuine person, why David would CHOOSE to allude to something like it when the majority of viewers are going to be new to the whole thing, and under such time restrictions too, is completely baffling. At the very least it shows him to be an incompetent spokesperson if this is what he's going to talk about (in the loosest sense) given the chance. If he'd had 6 hours with a laptop and projector or something then maybe he could have done it some justice as long as he also pointed out that it is just one of the possibilities, but in the amount of time he had it should have been purely big gun deal-sealers rooted in the reality of the people he was trying to convert i.e. a plane in the sky = a plane in the sky, whether or not air crash investigations were carried out or whatever, and not a hologram or anything other than what it appears to be. It wasn't an essential part of my conversion and I'm guessing hardly anyone else's so why use it to get others on board? David is obviously a smart cookie and no doubt aware of these things, which just makes me all the more suspicious. Combine this with his and Annie's backgrounds and their history of ever-changing public opinions ranging from places at both ends of the conspiracy or no conspiracy spectrum regarding 9/11 with a notable recent complete flip from one side to the other, and if you're not even a little suspecting then... I really do despair.

[poiuytr]

[Patrick Brown]

Yawn...

Gawd can we just lock this thread as I don't care what David said anymore.

[kbo234]

[commanderson]

[alkmyst]

Commanderson wrote:

[Annie]

[quote="commanderson HE was backing up the official storey in last years print of his book![/quote]

Hi Commanderson

I wrote a long reply to you pages ago about why we didn't immediately suss the 911 issue. Please refer back to it.

In it, I clearly stated that I wrote the book in 2003, and then had to wait for permission to publish it until April 2005. So - it's not Dave's book, it was written years ago, and it is down to the forces of darkness that it only came out last year. If the publishers ever decide to put it in paperback, then naturally I would update it - the book is nearly 4 years out of date, and there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then. But the publishers choose not to put it out in paperback, despite the fact that it has sold out at least 3 print runs in hardback.

I agree with some of the other posts. Dave and I spend a lot of time flogging around the country doing meetings gratis to try and spread the word as far an wide as possible. What are you doing, Commanderson, except sitting at a keyboard?

[commanderson]

That we should organise between like minded people localy to get the facts out in our own communities, rather than have us all herded under one national group, reducing individual, and smaller collective responsabilities and volition on activism. And empowering a larger organisation to steer the activities and theories of truthers under representatives like MI5 agents shayler and Machon, look at how the potency of anti-war sentiment was difused by people feeling they had an organisation to do the work for them ie the anti war coalition in which shayler was involved.
If revalations about false flag activities tell us anything its that we should be sceptical of large entities, and call them to account.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

[commanderson]

2003 is plenty time to have seen some research into inside job, but its still the official line being trumpeted.
This showing up a contradictory line to the one David takes in the Alex Jones show where he says;

[commanderson]

[alkmyst]

Commanderson wrote:

[commanderson]

Sure, here's an article I call the melody of malice

How did the world change forever on 11/9/01? Was it really just the destruction rained on N.Y. and D.C. that day? Was it the striking symbolism of the targets? The patriotic rage pricked by hearing the thuds of workers, driven to suicide by a hidden enemy? It was all of these things that made up the terror metered out on the U.S. Capitols that day, but the way the world changed forever was that we were repeatedly told it had. The media orchestration around the events was as contrived and deliberate as the attacks themselves, working in symphony together, they encouraged the desired public reaction of shock and awe, allowing our world's leaders to emphasise its importance as "the pearl harbour for our generation"; "an epoch defining moment."
The media tactic was ready to roll, while the patsies were being put into place, the demolition devices prepared, and the remote controllers practiced. Their composition has been blared at us ever since its opening fanfare that morn, with news media across the airwaves, cables and print acting like fingers on our collective sentimental strings, to inspire fear, anger, trepidation, exhaustion, indifference and hate at the required times, so that we might sign up for their slaughter. But its not the only reason for the cacophony of confusion we've been subjected to since that day, the true perpetrators of this crime had to cover their stumbling lie of how this happened, and having the public jumping from one shock story to another, has kept the focus fixed firmly away from the mechanics of this seminal assault on the remnants of our liberty.
Their tune began with deafening bombast, while the unsubstantiated lie of Arabs with box cutters, a few hours simulator time, and a mastermind in a cave was still being repeated like a mantra, the phantom spectre of anthrax was introduced, propagating the paranoia of murderous Muslims under any bed. Most of us are so well conditioned that even when it is finally reported that the Anthrax was produced by the US. Military’s chemical weapons programme, and the (undetained!) suspect, an ex-defence employee, it did little to erase the notion that the free world was under constant attack by fanatical zealots. And we most certainly are, along with the rest of the worlds population, its just that Islamic terrorists are but a trifling tentacle of the rouge state's global terror apparatus, and the real puppet masters aren't cowering in caves, dodging daisy cutters, but lounging in the seats of world power, financial political and military.
Thinking on the structure of the media's manipulative melody I hear the theme from Star Wars, (which Fox News mimics) with it's blaring opening leading into strong oppressive horns, giving way intermittently to; sinister trumpets of oppression; swooshy strings of solidarity; pounding drums of noble defence, and jubilant verses of victory. Trying to convince us that jus' like Luke and Obe-wan (with a bit of free market Han) our boys are fighting the forces of evil, over there on the dark side. But perhaps they are mixing their metaphors precariously, offering the realization that the senator is really the evil emperor, his subjects slowly awakening to the fact that its not an righteous robe, but a naked dictatorship.
Their score writers/conductors, employ little imagination in their composition, seeing the simple, obvious plot moves, as the most effective for mass control, fooling most of the people all of the time, and leaving the rest of us saying 'I knew that was goanna happen.' Thus after the furore of the attacks, anthrax alert, arbitrary air disasters and afghan aggression it was time to go to the Holy land for Christmas, to celebrate the baby J's designated birthday, with an armed siege, right by the manger in the church of the nativity, bringing back to us the truly religious nature of the conflict.
Able to spin the siege out for close to a month, there was certainly good distraction mileage gained from this event, footage of Israeli tanks crushing Palestinians in their homes still infinitely preferable to the story reported for a day on CNN and Fox (then buried forever), that a 200 strong ring of Mossad agents had been busted (by the F.B.I.) tapping phones, evacuating Jewish schools, getting footage, and generally making sure things went to plan all around the W.T.C's televised demolition derby. Other fundamental facts obscured by the media's diversionary tactics, were that after the Florida recount was finally done, Bush had in fact lost, and thus stolen the election (reported very briefly on the second day of bombing Afghanistan), the media choosing to highlight instead the choking on pretzels, while watching the super bowl Bush story. How American! Every Homer in the land must have empathised with their moron president when they heard that one, receiving some comfort from the idea that bumbling incompetents and not evil geniuses rule the world.
The main story we've been consistently diverted from has been any sort of review over the evidence, that's purported to make the case for the official version of what happened. Maybe coz it would make for such brief reading, as the pieces of evidence' are few, fabricated and farcical, like passports of the terrorists surviving the fire ball to be found a few blocks away along with a hog tied stewardess, when we are told that most of the bodies of the dead were unrecoverable because they were vaporised in the inferno or powdered under the weight of the rubble, (inconsistent with the known mechanics of plane crashes, kerosene explosions and building collapses). Then there is of course the enigma of the sloppy, well trained, frivolous, dedicated hijackers, who conducted synchronised suicide attacks with cold discipline, left Korans and flight manuals for the feds to find, arrived late and "sweating bullets" for their flight, are fanatical Muslims who drink in strip bars, and are clandestine spooks who make a scene by screaming about the infidel in public! These Lee Harvey Chapman Atta Hinckley McViegh’s all seem to be very mixed up cats.
The counter intuition of the official version goes way beyond, just the irrational actions of the hijackers, physics itself had a few impossible glitches that day, with flight 175 [2nd to strike (south tower)] performing a manoeuvre the flight deck could not have managed, as the crew would have been rendered unconscious by the g-force {but could have been executed by remote control!} The South Tower was the first to fall, even though it was last hit, with a more glancing blow than the North tower, we are told it was the jet fuel fire (basically kerosene) that melted the internal structures of the towers right to the bottom to cause such a controlled collapse, although a quick look at the melting temperatures/ times of steel, compared to the burning temperatures of kerosene will show this to be untenable. The magic bullet for generation X

We are told that it was flight 77, a 757, that ploughed into the pentagon that day, despite resident’s reports that the projectile they witnessed was a much smaller craft, more like a missile. This being corroborated by the evidence at the scene where despite having extensive security camera coverage on the U.S military’s headquarters, we're only seen a before and after shot of the target, showing a circular explosion breach with no damage from any wide wingspan. Oh the wings folded in, the whole plane kinda sooked itself into that wee hole, just one of those things, happens like that sometimes. Well it had happened twice that morning already, and the burning wounds in the W.T.C's sides had airplane prints to them like Daffy Duck running through a wall. Again most of the wreckage was destroyed in the inferno, a whole 757, foldable wings and all, no passenger corpses, no indestructible black box, (reported unrecovered from all four planes). Anybody doubting the assertion that these acts were committed solely by disorganized Arabs, centrally controlled from a cave in a third world country, because they hate our freedoms? This is why the world’s monarchy has to wheel out their clown Prince to give out the ultimatum "No ludicrous conspiracy theories will be tolerated concerning 9\11.” Well stop telling us that one about the fumbling fanatics, unbelievable lapses of air security, imaginary physics, a president more interested in goat tales than a national emergency, and the necessity to remotely murder thousands of impoverished Muslims because of this event.

But the show must go on to prevent any sort of critique of previous acts, and like the lie that requires many more untruths to cover up the first, the random terror had to continue right up until the ultimate distraction of another war. The D.C sniper would prove quite an effective vehicle, to propagate the fear of terrorists everywhere, right into the leafy suburbs and shopping malls of America. For close to a month Government and law enforcement had citizens jogging zigzag to their cars from the store, while their marksmen picked off the odd shopper. The ‘culprit’, to be found on the day that Montgomery Police Chief Anderson makes the public statement /trigger command of “You will be caught like a duck in a noose. We understand that hearing us say that is important to you.” With patsy John Allen Muhammad, displaying all the contradictory attributes of his tragic predecessors, a homeless drifter, who takes calls from his travel agent at the shelter, goes on skiing holidays and travels to the Caribbean at the drop of a hat. He is an Islamic fundamentalist who had no qualms about out massacring Muslims in the first Gulf war. His young accomplice Lee Boyd Malvo, an illegal immigrant, inexplicably released by the INS, said to have been dominated by Muhammad, their relationship like that of a “recruit/drill sergeant.” With John wanted for the harassment of his ex-wife and the kidnapping of their children (the charges he was initially booked on) both of these men should have been incarcerated/ deported long before the shootings.
John Allen Williams as he was known until 2001, served a chequered sixteen year military career never distinguishing himself as a skilled shooter, yet he was able to gain head shots from 500 yards away from inside the cramped boot of a 1990 Chevy Caprice. And it seems to be in the car that, that the symbolic fingerprints were to be planted, bought from “Sure Shot Autos” in New Jersey, and formerly used as a police cruiser, the name “Caprice” is defined as meaning “ a sudden impulsive change of thinking or acting," like changing from a jet setting hobo to serial sniper! This pair are Manchurian candidates to the letter, and it is most likely the CIA were bankrolling Williams from the time he left the Army, grooming him for his fall guy role, recruiting Malvo from Antiga, where it’s likely they were subconsciously programmed. The true perpetrators of the killing spree, now seen wielding the power weaned from this event, as government agencies and the Bush Junta consolidate their power over a petrified populous, clamouring for protection. And still 2+2=1 in the public conscious, everyone heard Moose’s “ duck in noose” communicate, resulting in the sleeping suspects being found in their car, but is it the obvious extrapolation that the state controlled these men? Of course not! Paranoia! Anti Americanism! Fear of the future! Well I’ve done my calculations and checked them over, and 2+2=4, paranoia is a heightened sense of awareness, I’ll be anti any murderous dictatorship, and find a future where reason has been bullied into submission by fear and ignorance, quite ominous.
There’s been outrage after scare after alert, as to have the populous placated to ever more draconian dictates, and curtailments of civil liberties, showing the state as beneficiary to these callous acts of terror, able to consolidate power over petrified peoples, under the guise of necessary protection. Bringing us to the next case in point, the Bali Disco Bombing on Kutta beach in Indonesia, Wow!…. we knew these towel heads were fanatics but they’ve gotta be stupid too right? To bomb Australians (the anglo’s least convinced by Dubya’s rationale for war) in the second most populous Muslim nation on earth, yielding multiple set-backs to the jihad; Australia’s endorsement of the war on Terrorism, Prime Minister Megawati’s clampdown on many Islamic groups on the islands, and her further subservience to U.S. military requests. Yup, the fiendish cadre of the cresent really shot themselves in the foot with this one!
But of course this act was little to do with any Holy war waged against the infidel, just bolstering the perception of it, and more an element of the relentless psychological attack the world’s populations have been subjected to by the evermore visable, Global Shadow Government. Should Islamic militants have wished to attack the ‘Great Satan’ America, there was the Peanuts nightclub just down the road, frequented by lots of juicy yanks, whereas the Sari was well known as an Aussie hangout, and why would essentially political terrorists want to consolidate opposition from countries sympathetic to their grievances (if not thier perceived methods). See it makes no sense, unless the deed was under direction of the power looking to shure up it’s support around the world for an open ended War On Terrorism ; the Trojan horse that may sneak in a world wide totalitarian regime.
In the same way as the pentagon attack was to specify the target of the aggression, an explosion at the U.S. consulate on another Island (injuring nobody) acted as a link bomb implying the perpetrators by their perceived targets. The twin towers were the main event, to be showcased incessantly as an example of how much these evil doers hate us, and would like to see all of us Dead. But the unseen strike to the Pentagon (one of the most monitored buildings in the world?), is the link to persuade us 3rd world nationals see western citizens just as calpable as their government and military.

I have more on a blog called armaggedontimes.blogspot.com too[/img]

[ian neal]

Please commanderson,

check out our history with those of us who have been involved from the out set. If it helps I can give you some names. There are various things that we could and maybe should have done differently over the years but one thing we absolutely haven't been is a tightly controlled and centralised. There is no party line. There is no inner cabal plotting the control of the movement in this country.

Local groups and individual activists are encouraged to follow their own path and be autonomous. Check out the history of the national gathering in London Sept 05 and the Blackpool meeting earlier this year at which Annie was selected as secretary. Understand what the 'national committee' does and does not do.

[commanderson]

OK Ian

I was in no way suggesting that the whole organisation is run by spies, but as for David and Annie, I think I have made my mind up though, with their evident flip-floping and avoidance in answering resonable questions about positions taken past and present.
I hope this movement can do good work, and is not hindered by their involvement, and in a way I hope I might be wrong about them here, but I cannot help but just follow the dots, and this is the picture as I see it.

Good luck

[poiuytr]

two remarks :

1. To the members of this site standing by David Shayler and Annie Machon:

I don't doubt your sincerity .
But experience shows that people involved deeply in a mouvement aren't always the best persons to have an impartial view of this mouvement.

Sometimes,people from the outside having a broader view of things are better equipped at spotting inconsistencies,and i believe, in this case,these inconsistencies and the absence of a logical answer are rather obvious.

I would advise you to look at the personalities of other 911 researchers advocating the no plane theory (Jim Hoffman being the most notable) and see how they use their theory to attack other 911 researchers:

The article by Jim Fetzer linked by me on page 10 is a perfect example; Hoffman tries to discredit the work of David Ray Griffin,Steven Jones,Jim Fetzer by using pseudo scientific facts completely made up and picked up as so by fetzer.
See as well how he refutes the signification of the word "PULL" pronounced by Larry Silverstein as meaning demolition,but contends it meant simply "PULLING OUT THE FIREFIGHTERS"

i don't make that up

That's the sort of company David Shayler and others NPT advocates keep.

Note:this doesn't prevent them for being concerned about truth mouvements being INFILTRATED....

2.To agent Annie;

None of your cherry picked answers to commanderson stand up to scrutiny.
There were plenty of clues to non trained eyes that 911 was staged before you started writting your book in the summer of 2003:

june 2001:Alex Jones warns in his texas radio and television show that Osama bin Laden was going to be used by a mysterious group of people that he refers to as the Globalists.

911: Some television news reporters mentioned that the towers and Building 7 collapsed in a manner that resembles the demolition of an old office building.

2001 october:Christopher Bollyn, an investigative reporter for the small weekly newspaper The American Free Press, wrote articles that cast doubts on the official explanation 9-11. His articles appeared on the Internet and in the small, weekly newspaper The American Free Press. He wrote about Van Romero and about eyewitness reports of bombs going off inside the WTC towers

2001 december :Bollyn writes that Andreas von Bulow, a former German parliament official who worked with the German Secret Service, believes the Mossad was behind the September 11 :

[prole art threat]

[poiuytr]

Face the facts,prole
Either they are agents,either everyday high school kids would do a better job to expose 911 than what they are doing;it sounds a little dubious to say the least....

[numeral]

[paul wright]

How long can this go on? People are entitled to wake up, see the light, become illuminated, smell the coffee, at any stage. What does timeline have to do about it?
You either see it or you don't
Once you've seen 9/11, you can see a myriad other falsehoods
Doesn't really matter when you caught on, rather what you do about it
If all you do about it is to try and discredit other campaigners then your motives are rather suspect
This applies around the most prominent of the US campaigners as much as around here
Personally I've held to the NPT and the BW theory since early days, but why would I wish to push it around here. It's clearly divisive
I think most of it is boredom because things are not moving on as fast as they should. Because the movement is under active attack also, and because we can see and understand things, that those who uphold the established order can use to take the piss and undermine us
Best to hold fast, stay reasonable, stay united
We must and will win out - the NWO will be defeated in their attempted takeover of the turn of events
Personal antagonism has no place here

[poiuytr]

[paul wright]

[poiuytr]

Thank you.

For the people not versed in the DUI scandal,the american and british gouvernements to this day deny DUI ammunitions are harmfull to populations or soldiers.

If ever a governement scientific study proves DUI causes radiation poisonning,both governements will face compensation lawsuits from veterans and iraqi that will bankrupt their treasaury in a split second.

Not to say the end of the war.

How's that for a swell of an idea,Annie ??

[utopiated]

Commanderson obviously just got the latest edition of "Conspiracy forums - A 101 Guide" a few weeks back and has decided that flooding the forum with terms like "shill", "disinfo agent" and "this is divides the movement" whilst adding no real content or informed opinion is the way to go.

This idea that we can identify "agents" from behind the simulated matrix of the computer screen is hilarious. It's also a dead end and pointless persuit.

Half the community is loosing it at present. Nico Haupt thinks Peter Dale Scott is an "agent" and Fintan Dunne decided long ago that practically every website you visit is run by the CIA.

Here's a fact: We're all agents of something.

[poiuytr]

utopiated,

Stick to David Ray Griffin,Jim Fetzer,Ray Mac Govern,Christopher Bollyn,Steven Jones,Dave Von Kleist,Barry Zwicker,Michel Chussodowsky,Kevin Barett,David Rodriguez,Doug Rokke,Lauraine Day,Stanley Monteiht

There's quite a few material up there.
Beware of the others.

[commanderson]

[poiuytr]

Happy christmas,commanderson.
You're a good guy.

I hope by the time you come back,we will see our dynamic duo buzy exposing on sky how the world is comitting suicide with DU.
By then,the war would have been stopped and the vets would be at the governement throat for poisonning them.
That's my christmas present wish.

[prole art threat]