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tunneller
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: Political Ponerology |
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Hi all,
Just wanted to add to the background of 9/11 and why it ever got to this stage. I think this information is vital for understanding the wider context beyond 9/11 and why it is imperative that we grasp the psychology that carries such attacks.
There's a new book out by Red pill press called Political Ponerology: The Scientific Study of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes. by Andrew M. Lobaczewski.
Here's the blurb from the site: http://www.redpillpress.com/retail/product_info.php?products_id=45
| Quote: | "The first manuscript of this book went into the fire five minutes before the arrival of the secret police in Communist Poland. The second copy, reassembled painfully by scientists working under impossible conditions of repression, was sent via a courier to the Vatican. Its receipt was never acknowledged, no word was ever heard from the courier - the manuscript and all the valuable data was lost. The third copy was produced after one of the scientists working on the project escaped to America in the 1980s. Zbigniew Brzezinski suppressed it.
Political Ponerology: The scientific study of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes was forged in the crucible of the very subject it studies. Scientists living under an oppressive regime decide to study it clinically, to study the founders and supporters of an evil regime to determine what common factor is at play in the rise and propagation of man's inhumanity to man.
Shocking in its clinically spare descriptions of the true nature of evil, poignant in the more literary passages where the author reveals the suffering experienced by the researchers who were contaminated or destroyed by the disease they were studying, this is a book that should be required reading by every citizen of every country that claims a moral or humanistic foundation. For it is a certainty that morality and humanism cannot long withstand the predations of Evil. Knowledge of its nature, how it creates its networks and spreads, how insidious is its guileful approach, is the only antidote." |
And here is a passage from the intro to get a flavour:
| Quote: | "Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.
And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.
In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.
You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.
How will you live your life?
What will you do with your huge and secret advantage, and with the corresponding handicap of other people (conscience)?
The answer will depend largely on just what your desires happen to be, because people are not all the same. Even the profoundly unscrupulous are not all the same. Some people - whether they have a conscience or not - favor the ease of inertia, while others are filled with dreams and wild ambitions. Some human beings are brilliant and talented, some are dull-witted, and most, conscience or not, are somewhere in between. There are violent people and nonviolent ones, individuals who are motivated by blood lust and those who have no such appetites. [...]
Provided you are not forcibly stopped, you can do anything at all.
If you are born at the right time, with some access to family fortune, and you have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred and sense of deprivation, you can arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people. With enough money, you can accomplish this from far away, and you can sit back safely and watch in satisfaction. [...]
Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population....
The prevalence rate for anorexic eating disorders is estimated a 3.43 percent, deemed to be nearly epidemic, and yet this figure is a fraction lower than the rate for antisocial personality. The high-profile disorders classed as schizophrenia occur in only about 1 percent of [the population] - a mere quarter of the rate of antisocial personality - and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that the rate of colon cancer in the United States, considered "alarmingly high," is about 40 per 100,000 - one hundred times lower than the rate of antisocial personality.
The high incidence of sociopathy in human society has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth.
Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this disorder, or if they do, they think only in terms of violent psychopathy - murderers, serial killers, mass murderers - people who have conspicuously broken the law many times over, and who, if caught, will be imprisoned, maybe even put to death by our legal system.
We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense.
Most of us would not imagine any correspondence between conceiving an ethnic genocide and, say, guiltlessly lying to one's boss about a coworker. But the psychological correspondence is not only there; it is chilling. Simple and profound, the link is the absence of the inner mechanism that beats up on us, emotionally speaking, when we make a choice we view as immoral, unethical, neglectful, or selfish.
Most of us feel mildly guilty if we eat the last piece of cake in the kitchen, let alone what we would feel if we intentionally and methodically set about to hurt another person.
Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves, whether they be homicidal tyrants or merely ruthless social snipers.
The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.
What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores, or from one who is a contemporary robber baron - or what makes the difference betwen an ordinary bully and a sociopathic murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust, or simple opportunity.
What distinguishes all of these people from the rest of us is an utterly empty hole in the psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions." |
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Sounds like Bush and most of the Administration to me along with a bigger percentage of folks in society at large. Throw in the Zionists, Christian fundies and all kinds of factions who are busy stirring up false-flag operations then we can begin to get an understanding that we have a full blown pathocracy molding humanity into mimcking an essentially psychopathological foundation, the seeds of which were sown a long, long time ago.
I think this material certainly made a lot of sense as to why we never learn from history where such power and control has been allowed to operate at the socio-cultural level as well as the geo-political level. For me, this book is absolutely vital to read in order to grasp the reality of the situation and thus how we can - IF we can - find different ways to break free.
T. |
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Mark Gobell
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Tunneller.
I've read some of that book and it is very interesting stuff.
I did make a post about it sometime ago but - no takers.
Welcome aboard anyway.
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The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
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tunneller
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Mark, and thanks for the welcome.
Yes, it's certainly a shocking read. I've still been trying to get my head around the implications.
It does make the whole disgusting deception of 911 and other related daily events in the political and intelligence spheres much more understandable. It makes it a problem of psychopathology rather than a belief system. This is why it is so important. Ideologies and political parties are all used to protect the psychopaths and characteropaths against the "normal" people who are already so ponerized that we think we are living in a more or less democratic system, where in fact it is merely a mirror of the military-industrial complex which is psychopathic. The world made INSIDE the Devil so to speak.
Yet to extricate ourselves from our beliefs and misconceptions inculcated from childhoood is a very difficult thing indeed. We live in a wholly narcissistic society borne from this psychopathic pyramid. We only have to look at most social systems based around insane economics, extreme capitalism etc. and it is clear that we live with a daily pathology sourced from our inability to step outside the media drivell and socio-cultural beliefs fed into us from the moment we walk...
Part of this is the normalisation of evil. A word with religious connotations and makes me uncomfortable as I'm not religious at all, but it is very apt I think. The science of evil - something we really need to get up to speed on.
9/11 and the fascism of the US as a pathogenic virus of evil seems to be very compelling idea indeed. It gives us the means to address this problem in a non-flaky way. In a way that everyone - I would hope - can understand. Not because its a purely "psychological" take on our world but that it can be applied as a discipline to recreate society - not as a utopia but to finally address a secret that simply hasn't been grasped perhaps since the dawn of man.
There are two types of human. One that has no conscience and that is a minority and one that has a conscience and is unaware that is being historiaclly manipulated by individuals and agencies of the former type.
What's more these various types of psychopaths recognise each other.
This explains why they are so successful in creating their world and forcing us into their way of looking at reality.
T. |
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Mark Gobell
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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The trick has been so masterfully spun, the tools so powerful and persuasive, yet, I often conclude, from the evidence of arrogance and belligerence that the self same power that is wielded will eventually prove to be the source of their decline.
History has proved this over and over.
Practically I asked the guy who introduce me to this tome, what next after they have achieved thier aims ?
However you characterise it, it will only be a passing blip in time that will eventually unravel, as history again tells us.
If I ruled the world, I would only do so temporarily. My children would then inherit the world, but again only temporarily. In such a utopian world, with abundant slaves and riches a plenty, what would be next ?
What ultimately drives this evil ? A short term view of tenure of power ?
Even consideration for the myopic vision of a dynastic goal doesn't seem to offer any more than they have already ?
How much land and power does one need to be the biggest and the best ?
I am inclined to believe that the end game hasn't really been thought through sufficiently to extend beyond their own life expectations or that of their short term legacy.
People are people. Even in utopia, people will need to live and have purpose, long after the evil deeds of the forebears have passed into distant history. So, what is the point ? There are only so many grapes to be eaten and wine to be drunk.
What is their point, ultimately ?
I see it no more than a grown up version of sci-fi heroes who want to rule the world, like tiny scared children in bigger bodies.
That's the place where my thinking goes.
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The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What ultimately drives this evil? |
Whilst I in no way condone 9/11, we are all victims of conditioning, good and evil are surely just 'labels', conceptual shifts in perspective.
I recently broached the question here of Christmas and why non-Christians invest time and money in a religious festival? This is perpetuated in our children who then accept that it is the thing to do – the same must be true of those being indoctrinated into the ways of the New World Order. This is the way of things, the way it has always been and it will continue until the cycle is broken. They do not see it as wrong or evil, there is nothing immoral in it for them.
As a vegan I am totally opposed to the taking of animal life to satisfy the feelings of hunger, yet the omnivores here who eat meat without a second thought, do not consider the suffering and misery inflicted in slaughterhouses around the world. It is purely natural for them despite having a choice.
For me, perspective is the meaning of life. In other words, life is how you perceive it and it is impossible to see things through the eyes of another human being, let alone shift your outlook and conceive the world as others do.
There are as many realities as there are people, no two ever having identical views of what 'is'. Did the German guard in Auschwitz perceive himself as ‘evil’ or as someone serving the greater good?
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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tunneller
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Gobell wrote: | The trick has been so masterfully spun, the tools so powerful and persuasive, yet, I often conclude, from the evidence of arrogance and belligerence that the self same power that is wielded will eventually prove to be the source of their decline.
History has proved this over and over. |
History certainly does show the rise and fall of civillisations and cultures which is also natural. But I think we are obviously concerned about how psychopathology or evil expresses itself right now. Sure, we can learn from the lessons of the past and this is necessary - even essential. But psychopathic Elite or Pathocrats also learn from the past and do not see decline in the same light as we do. Sure, like pathogens that attack their host they do not see that they too will die if the host dies. We will all go down the plug-hole with them if they continue on their present course.
However, the the severity of that "natural" decline is also much more pronounced in this the 21st century for several reasons. Firstly, there are several ideological, political, occult and fundamentalist groups or factions embedded in the "Clash of Civillisations" nonsense all of whom are actively pursuing conflict as part of their plans. We have the propensity for nuclear war, global battles for natural resources, and endless covert manipulations for control. Earth and climate changes which may eclipse all geo-political concerns.
The unfortunate thing is, probably the only thing that will stop such people ARE environmental changes which, although they have prepared for with their billion dollar bunkers, they may have underestimated. So, the "change" that we are after, or those that begin to get the bigger picture may be rather different than we think. Utopia is not the answer as that is impossible. But from the ashes as it were, a more level footing may be acquired where knowledge of human nature and evil is instilled from the beginning so that measures can be taken to prevent the likelihood of psychopathic power clusters forming and spreading across the world as they have done - certainly with full force and with a particular agenda - since the beginning of the last century.[/quote]
| Mark Gobell wrote: | Practically I asked the guy who introduce me to this tome, what next after they have achieved thier aims ?
However you characterise it, it will only be a passing blip in time that will eventually unravel, as history again tells us. |
Well, that depends on how you define a "passing blip." If all variables coalesce at the same time then it could mean a whole lot more. If so, what we do now - even if we go down the plughole with the Pathocrats may well dictate whether future generations draw the short straw again via a chosen ignorance or begin to apply past knowledge and avert the same repeating patterns of dramatic decline.
| Mark Gobell wrote: | | If I ruled the world, I would only do so temporarily. My children would then inherit the world, but again only temporarily. In such a utopian world, with abundant slaves and riches a plenty, what would be next ? |
Conscience and limitation are not part of a Pathocracy. Again, "temporarily" may mean 100 years or two thousand. Who knows? And Utopian for a psychopath is where everything is controlled down to the finest detail and serving the apex of the pyramid. Of course, this is entropy and cannot last. But how much suffering is preventable? I think it depends entirely on our state of mind. The future is not set in stone. While we cannot prevent certain outcomes as it stands now, there is always opportunities for mitigation.
| Mark Gobell wrote: | What ultimately drives this evil ? A short term view of tenure of power ?
Even consideration for the myopic vision of a dynastic goal doesn't seem to offer any more than they have already ?
How much land and power does one need to be the biggest and the best ? |
There is NO limitation. For now, they want global totalitarian world - a Pathocracy with Psychopaths permenantly at the top. Even after the destruction that has been wrought they hope to emerge as the ones that survive and restart it all again.
| Mark Gobell wrote: | | I am inclined to believe that the end game hasn't really been thought through sufficiently to extend beyond their own life expectations or that of their short term legacy. |
From the evidence so far, this agenda is rather old and thus generational. They are clearly wishfully thinking to the extent that they think they have covered every eventuality. This is the hallmark of all psychopaths, narcissists and characteropaths - this refusal to see past their own super-selfish choices.
| Mark Gobell wrote: | People are people. Even in utopia, people will need to live and have purpose, long after the evil deeds of the forebears have passed into distant history. So, what is the point ? There are only so many grapes to be eaten and wine to be drunk.
What is their point, ultimately ? |
Spoken from someone who has a conscience and does not perhaps have a voracious need to control and consume. That is the point I think. They seek a Utopia for the Psychopath that is "locked-in." They intend to eat all the grapes and all the wine and produce more from our ignorance and acquiescence.
| Mark Gobell wrote: | | I see it no more than a grown up version of sci-fi heroes who want to rule the world, like tiny scared children in bigger bodies. |
If you apply this to the average narcissist and crime boss in society. But primary psychopathy is something different I think.
T. |
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tunneller
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | | Whilst I in no way condone 9/11, we are all victims of conditioning, good and evil are surely just 'labels', conceptual shifts in perspective. |
This is true up to a point but I think there are objective differences that are not based around perspective but tangible results which in turn, are sourced from an essential nature. "Labels" maybe, however, a habitual action of a predator as oppose to its prey defines the parameters by which we can give meaning to that label. Evil has a face. Just as Goodness does. On/off, yin/yang, black/white, creativity/entropy. As to how we can recognise one from the other depends on the mid-point between those two poles; what awareness and discernment we have accumulated in order to see objectively or subjectively the reality before us. How can we make judgements and evaluations as to what is good or evil if we have not learnt the language of the latter? This applies just as much to our inner life as it does to external events. This is perhaps why psychopaths can so easily "snake charm" their victims into believing anything - government or next door neighbour.
There are certain instrinsic values which exist in nature that can also be applied to humanity. Yes, we are all victims of conditioning. Our recognition that we need not be a victim any longer than is necessary depends on how much we are prepared to take responsibility for our lives and the actions that must follow this knowledge if we are to do it justice.
So, the recognition of psychopathy 911 and other negative events in our world is really reflecting our own denials rather than any external encroachment. At least that's how I see it. If that made sense!
T. |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, it made perfect sense. You phrased it so clearly.
However, if objective conventionalism isn't prepared to recognise the intrinsic hypothetical values laid down by generations of those apoplexic in their approach, then what judgement can be made?
This opens the question for debate if the diminished value of entropy in its true form is subjectively only experienced by the believers in such outmoded ideals as relativism and higher forms of human evolution.
Using those here as examples of external projectivism, if teachers such as Gurdjieff lived in the ‘now’, then self-hypnosis using accessible tools as the auditory response will benefit. I am sure you can see this.
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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tunneller
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Political Ponerology |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | Of course, it made perfect sense. You phrased it so clearly.
However, if objective conventionalism isn't prepared to recognise the intrinsic hypothetical values laid down by generations of those apoplexic in their approach, then what judgement can be made? |
Objectivism conventionally known is not what I'm talking about here. The apoplexy of value judgements based on forced choices and a chronic lack of data can only lead to what we THINK is objective and is in fact entirely formed from our own wishes and desires as to what we assume is the correct way forward i.e. the pathological one. That is all we have - all we have known. In order to find something truly objective - i.e. reality AS IT IS thus being open to creative solutions by discerning the truth of a given situation - requires super human efforts, which curiously may lend themselves to the theory of networking.
| telecasterisation wrote: | | This opens the question for debate if the diminished value of entropy in its true form is subjectively only experienced by the believers in such outmoded ideals as relativism and higher forms of human evolution. |
I think most of us are following entropic paths just by existing. Perhaps it is only when we truly recognise that fact that we are pawns, dupes, "machines" dumbed down or whatever we may wish to call it - that we may then have the opportunity to choose something different.
| telecasterisation wrote: | | Using those here as examples of external projectivism, if teachers such as Gurdjieff lived in the ‘now’, then self-hypnosis using accessible tools as the auditory response will benefit. I am sure you can see this. |
No doubt. What form of self-hypnosis did you have in mind?
(will respond further when I am back in a few days)
T. |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I can't wait. Please hurry.
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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