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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: 7/7 bombings - lihop or mihop?? |
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andyb
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Well why not post this in the 7/7 section, as opposed to the 9/11 News section, and discuss it there?
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truthseeker john
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: 7/7 section |
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| andyb wrote: | | Well why not post this in the 7/7 section, as opposed to the 9/11 News section, and discuss it there? |
Let me check. Yep this is the '7/7 section'! Anyway, whodunnit? It certainly looks like a reg flag op to me!
See attached PDF
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commanderson
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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MIHOP! Lihop just makes no sense in 9/11 or 7/7, for the sophistication and military precision of these opperations, and the necesity and convenient timing of these events, the powers that be are'nt gonna just leave it up to some ramshakled muslims, who they just happened to hear were gonna stage these attacks, so didn't intervene.
Lihop is just a nonsense position to take, and as soon as its researched and the actions of the authorities are realised it can easily be seen as unteniable.
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
Unless they come up with the evidence, and it looks like they never will, this question is entirely stupid
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
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Apart from going into Luton Station together and their bodies then being found in London, you mean?
You think they were four total innocents who just happened to decide to go to London one day without telling family and friends about it, and all had the bad luck to be next to a bomb when it exploded, do you?
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | dh wrote: | Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
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Apart from going into Luton Station together and their bodies then being found in London, you mean?
You think they were four total innocents who just happened to decide to go to London one day without telling family and friends about it, and all had the bad luck to be next to a bomb when it exploded, do you? |
You believe that blurry photoshopped job? You believed that so-called DNA evidence. Hassib's dad has quite clearly stated that he has never received any evidence that his son was involved
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commanderson
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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they may well have gone to london together, may have been enticed for some other purpose, these things we may never know, just like what might have happened to the planes and passengers on 9/11, so no point in getting riled up about it 
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Bushwacker
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: | | dh wrote: | Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
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Apart from going into Luton Station together and their bodies then being found in London, you mean?
You think they were four total innocents who just happened to decide to go to London one day without telling family and friends about it, and all had the bad luck to be next to a bomb when it exploded, do you? |
You believe that blurry photoshopped job? You believed that so-called DNA evidence. Hassib's dad has quite clearly stated that he has never received any evidence that his son was involved |
Why do you expect a still of a security CCTV image to be sharper than that? Has anyone proved it was photoshopped, and no that is not his arm on the other side of the bar. Hassib's Dad believing his son to be innocent is very nice, but hardly evidence. If they were not there where are they?
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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The "trial run" cctv was certainly a whole lot clearer including from the same camera, supposedly
What kind of taken in fool are you?
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | The "trial run" cctv was certainly a whole lot clearer including from the same camera, supposedly
What kind of taken in fool are you? |
What kind of simple-minded conspiracist are you? Why are you unable to answer any other points? Can you think for yourself at all, or do you look for answers on your websites?
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paul wright
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | dh wrote: | The "trial run" cctv was certainly a whole lot clearer including from the same camera, supposedly
What kind of taken in fool are you? |
What kind of simple-minded conspiracist are you? Why are you unable to answer any other points? Can you think for yourself at all, or do you look for answers on your websites? |
Well let's exchange insults forever
Ludicrous Diversion clarifies the matter
http://westyorkshiretruth.aceboard.com
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: | | Can you think for yourself at all, or do you look for answers on your websites? |
Well let's exchange insults forever
Ludicrous Diversion clarifies the matter
http://westyorkshiretruth.aceboard.com |
I think you have clarified it, thanks.
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paul wright
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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dh
Will you take part in the 911 Truth March
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paul wright
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numeral
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Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 500
Location: South London
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | dh wrote: | Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
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Apart from going into Luton Station together and their bodies then being found in London, you mean?
You think they were four total innocents who just happened to decide to go to London one day without telling family and friends about it, and all had the bad luck to be next to a bomb when it exploded, do you? |
Got any evidence that they were at Luton Station or that their bodies were found on the trains/bus? Got any evidence that they were next to the bombs?
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Bushwacker
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| numeral wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: | | dh wrote: | Gawd - I thought it was amply demonstrated long ago that there is no evidence whatsoever that the 4 so-called bombers were ever in London together, let alone responsible for the events of that day
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Apart from going into Luton Station together and their bodies then being found in London, you mean?
You think they were four total innocents who just happened to decide to go to London one day without telling family and friends about it, and all had the bad luck to be next to a bomb when it exploded, do you? |
Got any evidence that they were at Luton Station or that their bodies were found on the trains/bus? Got any evidence that they were next to the bombs? |
CCTV at Luton, identification documents and DNA identify bodies, bodies were mangled, bodies returned to families who have not disputed who they were.
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numeral
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | numeral wrote: |
Got any evidence that they were at Luton Station or that their bodies were found on the trains/bus? Got any evidence that they were next to the bombs? |
CCTV at Luton, identification documents and DNA identify bodies, bodies were mangled, bodies returned to families who have not disputed who they were. |
The CCTV at Luton is disputed. Lindsay's ID was not found until after his home had been raided. The narrative does claim that "DNA has identified the four at the four separate bombsites. The impact on their bodies suggests that they were close to the bombs". This claim is untested. Khan's family are seeking an independent post-mortem. There is no report of his burial or the burial of Lindsay.
| Quote: | It is completely unclear how the suspects were definitely identified. DNA has been mentioned but it is not stated where the samples were taken from and what they were matched with. What about evidence other than DNA which, once upon a time, would be required in order to secure a conviction for even the most minor offence?
Two of the men, Tanweer and Hussain, have reportedly had family funerals and their remains have been interred in Pakistan and Yorkshire respectively. There has been no account stating the whereabouts of Lindsay’s body, and the family of Khan have asked for a second post-mortem to be carried out on his remains, which are apparently in fifty separate packets.
None of the families of the men have identified their remains. Lindsay’s mother stated:
"I don’t know whether that was my son. Neither I nor his wife have been able to identify him."
The family of Hussain say they have been shown no other evidence than the credit card belonging to him which was found in the bus wreckage. |
http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-2.html
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Bushwacker
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| numeral wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: | | numeral wrote: |
Got any evidence that they were at Luton Station or that their bodies were found on the trains/bus? Got any evidence that they were next to the bombs? |
CCTV at Luton, identification documents and DNA identify bodies, bodies were mangled, bodies returned to families who have not disputed who they were. |
The CCTV at Luton is disputed. Lindsay's ID was not found until after his home had been raided. The narrative does claim that "DNA has identified the four at the four separate bombsites. The impact on their bodies suggests that they were close to the bombs". This claim is untested. Khan's family are seeking an independent post-mortem. There is no report of his burial or the burial of Lindsay.
| Quote: | It is completely unclear how the suspects were definitely identified. DNA has been mentioned but it is not stated where the samples were taken from and what they were matched with. What about evidence other than DNA which, once upon a time, would be required in order to secure a conviction for even the most minor offence?
Two of the men, Tanweer and Hussain, have reportedly had family funerals and their remains have been interred in Pakistan and Yorkshire respectively. There has been no account stating the whereabouts of Lindsay’s body, and the family of Khan have asked for a second post-mortem to be carried out on his remains, which are apparently in fifty separate packets.
None of the families of the men have identified their remains. Lindsay’s mother stated:
"I don’t know whether that was my son. Neither I nor his wife have been able to identify him."
The family of Hussain say they have been shown no other evidence than the credit card belonging to him which was found in the bus wreckage. |
http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-2.html |
The CCTV at Luton may be disputed but attempts to disprove it have failed. The main thing pointed out, the bar through the arm is wrong, the supposed lower arm is in fact the corner of the wall. If Khan's family were seeking a second post-mortem 14 months ago, they should have had it by now and surely would be telling the world if it had established it was not him.
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numeral
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: |
The CCTV at Luton may be disputed but attempts to disprove it have failed. The main thing pointed out, the bar through the arm is wrong, the supposed lower arm is in fact the corner of the wall. If Khan's family were seeking a second post-mortem 14 months ago, they should have had it by now and surely would be telling the world if it had established it was not him. |
The bar through the arm thing was cleared up over a year ago. The main internal problems of the image are: degraded quality, non-recognisable faces, Hasib Hussain's leg reflection. External ones I mentioned earlier in this thread - Tanweer's trousers etc..
We do not know if a second post-mortem has, in fact, been carried out. The Khan family could well be waiting for the inquests in June 2007. They would hardly trust the media.
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Bushwacker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| numeral wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: |
The CCTV at Luton may be disputed but attempts to disprove it have failed. The main thing pointed out, the bar through the arm is wrong, the supposed lower arm is in fact the corner of the wall. If Khan's family were seeking a second post-mortem 14 months ago, they should have had it by now and surely would be telling the world if it had established it was not him. |
The bar through the arm thing was cleared up over a year ago. The main internal problems of the image are: degraded quality, non-recognisable faces, Hasib Hussain's leg reflection. External ones I mentioned earlier in this thread - Tanweer's trousers etc..
We do not know if a second post-mortem has, in fact, been carried out. The Khan family could well be waiting for the inquests in June 2007. They would hardly trust the media. |
Why should the family not trust the media? They would seize any stick to beat Blair with at the moment, and conspiracy theories are no problem to them, the Express runs a Diana story every week. If the Khan family had proof that the body parts they have did not come from their son they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
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numeral
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: | | numeral wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: |
The CCTV at Luton may be disputed but attempts to disprove it have failed. The main thing pointed out, the bar through the arm is wrong, the supposed lower arm is in fact the corner of the wall. If Khan's family were seeking a second post-mortem 14 months ago, they should have had it by now and surely would be telling the world if it had established it was not him. |
The bar through the arm thing was cleared up over a year ago. The main internal problems of the image are: degraded quality, non-recognisable faces, Hasib Hussain's leg reflection. External ones I mentioned earlier in this thread - Tanweer's trousers etc..
We do not know if a second post-mortem has, in fact, been carried out. The Khan family could well be waiting for the inquests in June 2007. They would hardly trust the media. |
Why should the family not trust the media? They would seize any stick to beat Blair with at the moment, and conspiracy theories are no problem to them, the Express runs a Diana story every week. If the Khan family had proof that the body parts they have did not come from their son they would be shouting it from the rooftops. |
It is pointless speculating on what such a report might contain. I would be surprised, to say the least, if it were to say that the remains were not of MSK. Why do you think that would be the only thing of interest in such a report?
"Why should the family not trust the media?" Are you kidding? I would be grateful if you could point to any sign that the MSM will publish anything seriously challenging the official line on 7/7. It is too hot. The Guardian's "Seeing isn't Believing" is as far as they can go. They will not investigate.
www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html
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azrael23
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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At the end of the day, even if we assume these suspects were in London together there is no evidence that any of them manufactured and used explosives to murder 56 people.
If it weren`t for the fact there could be no trial, no jury in the land would actually believe this nonsense. I`m sorry, I don`t mean to disrespect those whose "opinions" differ but it simply doesn`t make sense.
However, most people will never do the research and unfortunately repetition of fallacy has taken its toll.
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Bushwacker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| azrael23 wrote: | At the end of the day, even if we assume these suspects were in London together there is no evidence that any of them manufactured and used explosives to murder 56 people.
If it weren`t for the fact there could be no trial, no jury in the land would actually believe this nonsense. I`m sorry, I don`t mean to disrespect those whose "opinions" differ but it simply doesn`t make sense.
However, most people will never do the research and unfortunately repetition of fallacy has taken its toll. |
As you say, there will be no trial, so there all the evidence available may not be released. The circumstantial evidence is strong, however. They had no reason to be in London, as far as family and friends were aware, they were radical Moslems who had made "martrydom" videos, and they were all near to exploding bombs. Quite a series of coincidences if they were in fact innocent.
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paul wright
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Bushwacker wrote: |
As you say, there will be no trial, so there all the evidence available may not be released. The circumstantial evidence is strong, however. They had no reason to be in London, as far as family and friends were aware, they were radical Moslems who had made "martrydom" videos, and they were all near to exploding bombs. Quite a series of coincidences if they were in fact innocent. |
Ummmm there is no evidence they were in London that day as they had no reason, known, to be.There are a couple of highly suspect videos which make no mention of their supposed intent. There is very little evidence that they were near events other than identifying documents, Kahn's appearing at two places as once. None of this supposed evidence has been even shown.
Anyone who believes these stories is a dunce as much as anyone who believes the tabloids telling him that a cop murderer left the country disguised as a veiled woman is a dunce
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | | Bushwacker wrote: |
As you say, there will be no trial, so there all the evidence available may not be released. The circumstantial evidence is strong, however. They had no reason to be in London, as far as family and friends were aware, they were radical Moslems who had made "martrydom" videos, and they were all near to exploding bombs. Quite a series of coincidences if they were in fact innocent. |
Ummmm there is no evidence they were in London that day as they had no reason, known, to be.There are a couple of highly suspect videos which make no mention of their supposed intent. There is very little evidence that they were near events other than identifying documents, Kahn's appearing at two places as once. None of this supposed evidence has been even shown.
Anyone who believes these stories is a dunce as much as anyone who believes the tabloids telling him that a cop murderer left the country disguised as a veiled woman is a dunce |
Actually there is nothing suspect about the videos, a video would not show their intent unless they were carrying a large round black object with "bomb" on it, even without the videos, they were known to be heading for London in the middle of the night with no known reason, IDs were found andtheir DNA matched. Why should evidence be shown without a trial? Just closing your mind and chanting "It's all a conspiracy" to yourself may satisfy you, but not the more rational among us.
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numeral
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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So you go for LIHOP not MIHOP, Bushwacker?
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So you go for LIHOP not MIHOP, Bushwacker? |
It matters not one jot whether the cctv is 'suspect' or not - only Hussain can be recognised the other three could be anyone. You'd not get very far trying out that still on Crimewatch. What gets me is why we have several shots of the so-called 'dummy run' (very 'dummy' considering AFAIK they didn't do the route they did on the day) - why not the real McCoy?
Why not show us all these pics they say they have? Why just more of Hussain? (inc. the 'inexplicably cropped' one)
Why?
- If people are accused of mass murder (leaving their friends and family with this shocking revelation), I expect the government, as the accuser, to submit all reasonable evidence (there being no trial) to the public domain. I (am forced to) pay these cnuts wages, I want them to demonstrate they've got their facts right by all reasonable means. Call me paranoid if you like; I call it democratic accountability.
Like the government only ever got the right perps in a bombing case, right?
There is no conceivable reason why they should be witheld - the cameras are no secret (no 'national security' risk)and these images are to be used in no court case. So what's the problem? Or do we just trust what we're told now? On the basis of a 36 page 'narrative'. At least the yanks got a F@cking Commission, however nonsense it was.
According to HM Government, stuff linking Khan was found at THREE sites - on 7/7 (Aldgate - personal items, cash, credit cards for him and Tanweer), 8/7 (credit card, Edgeware Road) and 14/7 ("property", Tavistock Square). Now, before you say it, MI5 or whoever would have to be pretty thick to 'plant' incriminating evidence for the same guy in three separate places (though, lets face it, it's not entirely impossible - I for one don't believe in the 'all cunning, infallible and omnipotent NWO'), but you can't tell me it's not weird and it makes you wonder how the hell that happened. Or is it routine for suicide bombers to play top trumps with their bank cards to keep calm before detonation? What does my head in is the way it's just stated without comment - not even a "...and then we thought "how weird was that?""
Not forgetting (and as acknowledged by the very wonderful John 'Himmler' Reid) that the officers of the law conducting this meticulous investigation couldn't work out what train they caught. You'd think that would be key. Apparently not. It was 1-0 for the 'conspiracy theorists' on that factoid at least. Why it wasn't 'news' that the dibble went so arse over tit on such a basic fact escapes me.
As for the weird about turn on remote detonated C4 to manually detonated TATP...
You don't have to be MIHOP or LIHOP to recognise that being fobbed off with a grainy pic or two and a sh!tty half-arsed narrative on such a serious issue (with direct links to many aspects of both domestic and foreign policy) in place of a full and transparent investigation is very dangerous in a 'democracy' (whatever that word means these days)
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, sorry, forgot to say -
The DNAis a moot point - they say they've got it and matched it and that's it. If Steven Jones said he'd found Donald Rumsfeld's fingerprints on a piece of wtc steel, would you simply believe him?(yes I know that's stretching it a bit...)
As for the 'mysterious' trip to London -
Circumstantial.
I don't file a report every time I go somewhere. When I was 'young and wild' me and my mates went all kinds of places for a laugh. In fact, I've even been in London before without any specific reason for being there and without my family knowing about it. Again, I'm stretching it a bit, but the 'fact' they went down to London with 'no good reason' proves nothing.
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