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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: Is operation Northwoods Fake |
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Check it out for yourself to see the deliberate mistake
It would appear the document has been faked and then pushed into the spotlight |
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TonyGosling Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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Snowygrouch Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 628 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: What? |
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Errrr What?
Hint:
:HTML<INSERT FACTS HERE PLEASE>HTML: _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
President Eisenhower 1961 |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Check it out for yourself to see the deliberate mistake
It would appear the document has been faked and then pushed into the spotlight | If you are going to post such things, you should point out the fakery, as this is a key piece of evidence (and therefore could have been faked to discredit campaigners).
As far as I am aware, it came to light through James Bamford in his book "body of secrets" in 2001.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html
I believe that Bamford himself was connected with the CIA or military, but I am not sure. I have an audio of him somewhere too.
If you have additional information, post it here....
We shouldn't automatically assume something is nonsense, when so many mind games are being played. We need to continually examine evidence and be wary of fakery all the time. _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Zabooka Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 446
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
On that Wiki Page, you find lots of External Sites listed, ranging from research archives, to news articles, etc, etc... These include Reuters, New York Times, ABCNews, Associated Press, The National Security Archive at the George Washington University Gelman Libraryhttp://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/, it was even published online on November 6, 1998 as part of CNN's Cold War documentary series http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/documents/episode-10/02-01.htm, etc, etc...
So erm... yeah its definitely fake alright. A valid question though. Even though at face value it seems simple. However, its things we take for granted such as Operation Northwoods that will cause difficulty. I have to admit, if it werent for this post, I would not have researched a lil more about it. So before this thread, if I was campaigning, giving out leaflets, if someone said to me "Northwoods is FAKE"... well now I know I am more prepared to face such things.
Thank you very much TRUTH
Last edited by Zabooka on Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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It refers to college students taking a holiday - these are not what an American would say - they would say a vacation
Its a bit like a british document refering to an elevator or the sidewalk - twig it.
Northwoods looks like it was written by the British |
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Snowygrouch Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 628 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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<start program: logic>
HTML:<fact insertion follows>HTML
"Northwoods was uncovered during the Kennedy Assassination investigations afterwhich it was released to and published by the National Security Archives George Washington State University"
<end of facts>
<hint: follows>
<consult facts before posting>
<Fact 2 follows>
<Persons of non-american native dialect have worked for and currently work for the CIA, this is not indicative of the geographic origin of the writer>
<end> _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
President Eisenhower 1961 |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Snowygrouch wrote: | <start program: logic>
HTML:<fact insertion follows>HTML
"Northwoods was uncovered during the Kennedy Assassination investigations afterwhich it was released to and published by the National Security Archives George Washington State University"
<end of facts>
<hint: follows>
<consult facts before posting>
<Fact 2 follows>
<Persons of non-american native dialect have worked for and currently work for the CIA, this is not indicative of the geographic origin of the writer>
<end> |
Before any document would be forwarded for consideration surely it would be checked for errors.
Also the Northwoods document in some places refers to we and other as the USA (with the impression that the writer was not of the USA)
Where is your proof of the time and circumstances that Northwoods was first discovered? |
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Zabooka Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 446
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Truth, have you not read my posts here? Please check those links that I have provided. They clearly answer what you have just asked SnowyGrouch.
In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
The National Security Archive is a non-governmental, non-profit organization founded in 1985 by a group of journalists and scholars who sought a centralized home for formerly secret U.S. government documentation obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The National Security Archive is proud to have had the opportunity to make a substantial contribution to the Cold War series. http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/documents/episode-10/index.html The Cold War Series is from CNN. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/
TRUTH, I hope your questions and queries have been duly answered fully. |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Zabooka wrote: | Truth, have you not read my posts here? Please check those links that I have provided. They clearly answer what you have just asked SnowyGrouch.
In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
The National Security Archive is a non-governmental, non-profit organization founded in 1985 by a group of journalists and scholars who sought a centralized home for formerly secret U.S. government documentation obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The National Security Archive is proud to have had the opportunity to make a substantial contribution to the Cold War series. http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/documents/episode-10/index.html The Cold War Series is from CNN. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/
TRUTH, I hope your questions and queries have been duly answered fully. |
I don't dispute the fact that the document exists (just as The Hitler Diaries existed), I am just expressing some doubt as to their authenticity |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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The National Security Archive has information on 911 and if you look at it you will know that some of that is fake also because it is backing up the official government conspiracy theory
check it out - do you believe this
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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The National Security Archive is an independent non-governmental research institute and library located at The George Washington University in Washington, D.C. The Archive collects and publishes declassified documents acquired through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). A tax-exempt public charity, the Archive receives no U.S. government funding; its budget is supported by publication royalties and donations from foundations and individuals. On March 17, 2000, Long Island University named the National Security Archive as winner of a Special George Polk Award for 1999 for "piercing self-serving veils of government secrecy" and "serving as an essential journalistic resource."
A PRIME SOURCE OF DISINFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Zabooka Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 446
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate your angle on this TRUTH, or perhaps more honestly I am trying to appreciate it, forgive me if I fail in this.
However, I see it a bit of a big statement to say it was all FAKE! It may seem as though you want to put a spanner in the works, as the Northwoods Document and other such things are primary pieces of evidence to fuel our arguments in the search for 'TRUTH'.
However, yes intriguing as it may seem. Again, for me this sort of dialogue for me is the same as the Planes vs No Planes argument. I see it as short-sighted, forgive me for saying so, but thats my opinion.
However, please do enlighten me upon the importance and relevance of this and why you wish to pursue it here, in the manner you choose. |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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My point is than anything requested and received under the freedom of information act will only be what they decide to release.
If they release disinformation to achieve a certain goal then how will you know this? - you won't unless mistakes are made - deliberate or otherwise.
Put it this way - if you had committed some criminal act but no one had been able to nail you (let's assume you are an agent of the British Government) -- and then an individual requested information which if truthfully given would incriminate you and the government --- then what would you do if you were in charge of giving out the information? |
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Dogsmilk Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 1616
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | My point is than anything requested and received under the freedom of information act will only be what they decide to release.
If they release disinformation to achieve a certain goal then how will you know this? - you won't unless mistakes are made - deliberate or otherwise.
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You're right, it is.
And we can't.
However, why would the Northwoods doc be released as disinfo?
To what end?
It's old - one of the great things about 'national security' having documents stored before release is that by the time you can find out about it, few care.
Was its release headline news?
How many people know it even exists? - if you stood outside Tescos showing it to random shoppers, how many of them would give a flying f&ck? It was a long time ago - a lot of people don't care about that or see the relevance. People assume administrations change more than in a superficial way.
Like the Gulf of Tonkin - we now know it was a blag - would be big news then, history now. Which illustrates what a nasty old world it is - if you killed someone forty years ago and got found out, you'd go to prison. Not, however, for escalating a war that killed thousands. Good old 'democratic' justice.
If they'd actually gone through with it, it may have been sensitive enough to kick up a stink and thus witheld. If it turned out that there was some actual documentation proving JFK was whacked by the CIA or whatever, that would only be seen when it was truly ancient history. People might want something done over that.
As it is, they didn't do Northwoods. Outside of 'rabid bleeding heart radicals', dispassionate historians, and 'tin foil hat wearing conspiriloons', it's an obscure footnote to history.
The real mystery is why so few people care about what our noble democratic leaders actually get up to and why it doesn't occur to them that if they'd do it then, they'll do it now. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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You're right, it is.
And we can't.
However, why would the Northwoods doc be released as disinfo?
To what end?
As a stepping stone to bring down the Entire US administration and bring in the one world government |
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Dogsmilk Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 1616
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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If that were the case, wouldn't you think Northwoods would have been transformed into a major news story?
Besides, how could a document from decades ago possibly affect the current administration? _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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Snowygrouch Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 628 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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We've already got a one world government, its called:
1: Those with loads of money
2: Those without enough to influence companies and politicians
Planting it decades before is a bit too clever I`d say. If you wanted to bring down a government it could have been drafted ALOT better than that. Considering the only bloody people who even KNOW about it are us lot of tin-foil-hat brigade its a bit far short of being able to cause a world-wide geo-political apocalypse.
A "bridge too far" for me _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
President Eisenhower 1961 |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Snowygrouch wrote: | We've already got a one world government, its called:
1: Those with loads of money
2: Those without enough to influence companies and politicians
Planting it decades before is a bit too clever I`d say. |
Yes - these are good points. Let's just suppose for a minute the the Northwoods documents are faked - it would mean the government is releasing faked documents!! Eeek!
Let's just suppose for a minute the the Northwoods documents are NOT faked - it would mean the US government is willing to engage in FALSE FLAG TERRORISM.
It's looking bad for the US Government either way! _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Hazzard Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 368
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ Since when? |
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paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Snowygrouch wrote: | We've already got a one world government, its called:
1: Those with loads of money
2: Those without enough to influence companies and politicians
Planting it decades before is a bit too clever I`d say. If you wanted to bring down a government it could have been drafted ALOT better than that. Considering the only bloody people who even KNOW about it are us lot of tin-foil-hat brigade its a bit far short of being able to cause a world-wide geo-political apocalypse.
A "bridge too far" for me |
Snowy sometimes I question your logic
The alleged Northwoods may have been 40 years ago but making up a document could happen anytime if it suits the perps
They could release a 911 document in the future - are you gonna believe what it says if it's released under a freedom of information act?
You see what I don't get is this? How can you ask for the release of a document you do'nt know even exists in the first place?
What did the guy say?
"I say old chaps would it be too much trouble to release a few documents which showed you planned to carry out terrorist attacks against your own people" |
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Snowygrouch Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 628 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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TWSU3,
The NORTHWOODS docs were (as has been stated in this thread at least twice) released during the Kennedy assassination inquiry. They were NOT requested by "some bloke on the net last year".
All a while ago and ergo not really very relavent to some sort of 9/11 DOUBLE conspiracy.
C. _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
President Eisenhower 1961 |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Snowygrouch wrote: | TWSU3,
The NORTHWOODS docs were (as has been stated in this thread at least twice) released during the Kennedy assassination inquiry. They were NOT requested by "some bloke on the net last year".
All a while ago and ergo not really very relavent to some sort of 9/11 DOUBLE conspiracy.
C. |
prove it |
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Snowygrouch Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 628 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: TWSU3 |
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Prove WHAT?
YOU started this ill informed and pointless thread!!!!
If you are so interested go and bloody look at the national security archives yourself.
Quote from YOUR OWN POST:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
Lazy sod. _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
President Eisenhower 1961 |
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3 9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1009
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: TWSU3 |
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Snowygrouch wrote: | Prove WHAT?
YOU started this ill informed and pointless thread!!!!
If you are so interested go and bloody look at the national security archives yourself.
Quote from YOUR OWN POST:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
Lazy sod. |
can't see anything in there proving what you say |
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TimmyG Validated Poster
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 489 Location: Manchester
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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so your saying the establishment has somehow recently faked history by saying that the northwoods docs came out during the kenendy investigation, when really they never came out at all? _________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" |
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Hazzard Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 368
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Actually Truth, considering that you are the one that brought this argument up, you are the ony obligated to prove your hypothesis with a detailed explanation and evidence.
You cant just say something like "LAZER BEAMS BROUGHT DOWN THE TOWERS" without backing it up with evidence that supports your theory.
You contend that Northwoods is possibly disinformation, a strawman document if you will.....so prove it to the best of your ability with evidence that supports your theory.
Toooo-wit. _________________ Since when? |
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Dogsmilk Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 1616
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Since the thrust of the argument presented so far seems to base itself on the use of the word 'holiday' as opposed to 'vacation', I wonder what would be made of this -
Quote: | Executive Order 11582--Observance of holidays by Government agencies
Source: The provisions of Executive Order 11582 of Feb. 11, 1971, appear at 36 FR 2957, 3 CFR, 1971-1975 Comp., p. 539, unless otherwise noted.
By virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Except as provided in section 7, this order shall apply to all executive departments, independent agencies, and Government corporations, including their field services.
Sec. 2. As used in this order:
(a) Holiday means the first day of January, the third Monday of February, the last Monday of May, the fourth day of July, the first Monday of September, the second Monday of October, the fourth Monday of October,1 the fourth Thursday of November, the twenty-fifth day of December, or any other calendar day designated as a holiday by Federal statute or Executive order.2
(b) Workday means those hours which comprise in sequence the employee's regular daily toor of duty within any 24-hour period, whether falling entirely within one calendar day or not.
Sec. 3. (a) Any employee whose basic workweek does not include Sunday and who would ordinarily be excused from work on a holiday falling within his basic workweek shall be excused from work on the next workday of his basic workweek whenever a holiday falls on Sunday.
(b) Any employee whose basic workweek includes Sunday and who would ordinarily be excused from work on a holiday falling within his basic workweek shall be excused from work on the next workday of his basic workweek whenever a holiday falls on a day that has been administratively scheduled as his regular weekly nonworkday in lieu of Sunday.
Sec. 4. The holiday for a full-time employee for whom the head of a department has established the first 40 hours of duty performed within a period of not more than six days of the administrative workweek as his basic workweek because of the impracticability of prescribing a regular schedule of definite hours of duty for each workday, shall be determined as follows:
(a) If a holiday occurs on Sunday, the head of the department shall designate in advance either Sunday or Monday as the employee's holiday and the employee's basic 40-hour tour of duty shall be deemed to include eight hours on the day designated as the employee's holiday.
(b) If a holiday occurs on Saturday, the head of the department shall designate in advance either the Saturday or the preceding Friday as the employee's holiday and the employee's basic 40-hour tour of duty shall be deemed to include eight hours on the day designated as the employee's holiday.
(c) If a holiday occurs on any other day of the week, that day shall be the employee's holiday, and the employee's basic 40-hour tour of duty shall be deemed to include eight hours on that day.
(d) When a holiday is less than a full day, proportionate credit will be given under paragraph (a), (b), or (c) of this section.
Sec. 5. Any employee whose workday covers portions of two calendar days and who would, except for this section, ordinarily be excused from work scheduled for the hours of any calendar day on which a holiday falls, shall instead be excused from work on his entire workday which commences on any such calendar day.
Sec. 6. In administering the provisions of law relating to pay and leave of absence, the workdays referred to in sections 3, 4, and 5 shall be treated as holidays in lieu of the corresponding calendar holidays.
Sec. 7. The provisions of this order shall apply to officers and employees of the Post Office Department and the United States Postal Service (except that sections 3, 4, 5, and 6 shall not apply to the Postal Field Service) until changed by the Postal Service in accordance with the Postal Reorganization Act.
Sec. 8. Executive Order No. 10358 of June 9, 1952, entitled Observance of Holidays by Government Agencies, and amendatory Executive Orders No. 11226 of May 27, 1965, and No. 11272 of February 23, 1966, are revoked.
Sec. 9. This order is effective as of January 1, 1971.
1 Editorial note: The observance of Veterans Day was changed to November 11 by Pub. L. 94-97 (89 Stat. 479, 5 U.S.C. 6103), effective Jan. 1, 1978.
2 Editorial note: The birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr., was made a legal public holiday by Pub. L. 98-144 (97 Stat. 917, 5 U.S.C. 6103 nt.) and is observed on the third Monday in January. |
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/ 11582.html
Or what about the language here -
http://www.opm.gov/fedhol/2007.asp
Getting all suspicious about a document because it uses a word which is firmly within the language of the country in question seems odd to me. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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Zabooka Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 446
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Truth, you really are doing ill service to yourself. STOP DIGGING! |
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