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kbo234
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Location: Croydon, Surrey
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 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I find it impossible to believe that Jon Ronson is an honest man.
He rubbishes the 9/11 Truth movement at every opportunity but I have yet to see him engage with the hard issues (the collapse of Building 7 and the free-fall-speed collapses of the twin towers) and explain to us why we are wrong to insist that these were controlled demolitions.
He has engaged in this manner on this forum a couple of times......averting his gaze from the inexplicable and the difficult, instead choosing to base his opinions on some random invented perspective of his own.......as in..," If I had been president Bush, I wouldn't have been talking about goats to schoolchildren, nor would I have crashed a plane into the Pentagon.That's ridiculous. It's the most highly defended building on Earth, for God's sake. nor would I have destroyed 3 towers. One is obviously quite enough!...therefore it is ridiculous to suggest that it was an inside job, etc...."
This approach to such a serious issue is so lame it needs hospitalisation.
Come on folks. Wake up. How many people do you know who have actually looked at the evidence who do not think that 9/11 was an inside job.
Stop giving this fellow a respect he does not deserve and stop hoping that his is a spirit of truth that will side with us some day soon. This guy will side with us after we have won the argument in the public domain.
Behind all that soppy flaky bonhomie is a hard-edged calculating individual. Having seen his form so far, if and when he comes over to our side I will give some serious time to the possiblity that I am on the wrong track entirely.
Last edited by kbo234 on Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DrJazzz
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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oh for god's sake give it a rest TC. jon ronson is a good guy in all of this, he comes across to me as an open-minded guy who realises there is fishy stuff going on, possible very big, he probably suspects there is something just not right about 9/11 but is going to need more convincing before he throws away his safety blankets and joins the ranks of the loony-tunes fruitbats.
How are you going to help convince him and hence anyone else if you carry on like this? |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jonronson wrote: | | thought criminal wrote: | | Jon Ronson was also a journalist who was pro war with Iraq. His excuse these days is "Some of us journalists were privy to information that the general public new nothing about" To this day he has never revealed what this information was. |
I have never in my life said anything even remotely resembling that. I was not pro the war and I was not privy to anything. Jeez. Show me your source for that. Or did you just make it up in your room?
PS: I am not going to engage with your criticisms of Goats and Them because those books are there to be read and can defend themselves.
PPS: I'm not coming back, because last time it was just upsetting for everyone. But I couldn't let such a lie stand. |
Thanks for popping by.
We will see if Thought Criminal can provide a source for his quote. Assuming you never said any such thing thanks for correcting this. I certainly wouldn't want to be labelled pro-war if it were not true. My lack of trust in you stems largely from my reading of Them and your 9/11 article, but there will always be the opportunity to put the record straight on 9/11.
I would love to hear your views on the need for a new transparent investigation based solely on the evidence presented by the family campaigners featured in Press for Truth.
I know it is always easy to find good copy commenting on the apparently most outlandish theories surrounding 9/11 (see the 9/11 controversies section if you are not familiar with them) but the real story starts with the proven failure of the commission to address the vast majority of the questions posed by survivors (such as William Rodriguez) and family campaigners and the failure of the mainstream media (including you Jon) to report this cover-up.
The last time you visited here, you did meet some 'irrational' posters. Something that you used to frame your whole article on the 9/11 truth movement. However any journalist worth the name would not base their complete understanding of the 9/11 truth movement on the briefest of encounters on a discussion forum that clearly states
| Quote: | | Disclaimer: The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the British 9/11 Truth Campaign |
Are you telling me that you are unaware of the many 'rational' voices within the 9/11 truth movement or do you believe all of 'us' including these good people to be "irrational people to whom (you) can benevolently point out the error of their ways (to)"?
Sadly your writings to date confirm my prejudices about mainstream journalists: lazy, arrogent, spineless and incredibly ill-informed. I know there are exceptions to every rule and I would love you to be one of them, but I won't be holding my breathe.
Last edited by ian neal on Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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thought criminal
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 574
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| DrJazzz wrote: | oh for god's sake give it a rest TC. jon ronson is a good guy in all of this, he comes across to me as an open-minded guy who realises there is fishy stuff going on, possible very big, he probably suspects there is something just not right about 9/11 but is going to need more convincing before he throws away his safety blankets and joins the ranks of the loony-tunes fruitbats.
How are you going to help convince him and hence anyone else if you carry on like this? |
So why does he continue to say that Bilderberg is nothing to be worried about? Do not give me that nonsense about that 'he needs more convincing'. If he was interested he would have looked into it by now. Would you keep blurting innane codswallop on the radio about an issue you did not know anything about? Also, why are you referring to us as 'loony tunes fruitbats'?
Listen, stop treating this person with kid gloves. If he realises 'there is fishy stuff going on', why does he not come forward and say it? If as you say he realises 'there is fishy stuff going on' but is telling us there is 'nothing to worry about', then, hey presto, that is what I call 'disinformation'. No more, no less.
Last edited by thought criminal on Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thought criminal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: |
The last time you visited here, you did meet some 'irrational' posters. Something that you used to frame your whole article on the 9/11 truth movement. However any journalist worth the name would not base their complete understanding of the 9/11 truth movement on the briefest of encounters on a discussion forum that clearly states
| Quote: | | Disclaimer: The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the British 9/11 Truth Campaign |
Are you telling me that you are unaware of the many 'rational' voices within the 9/11 truth movement or do you believe all of 'us' including
these good people to be "irrational people to whom (you) can benevolently point out the error of their ways (to)"?
Sadly your writings to date confirm my prejudices about mainstream journalists: lazy, arrogent, spineless and incredibly ill-informed. I know there are exceptions to every rule and I would love you to be one of them, but I won't be holding my breathe. |
Amen to that. I really do not think anything further comment needs to be added.  |
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DrJazzz
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Good let's hope you are done then thoughtcriminal.
I think we are being so damn precious here. Sure, we'd like there to be more 'real' journalists but as they hardly exist we have to hope to persuade guys like Ronson, who is at least making the effort to engage. If I'd been him and received the reception he got last time I'd have written the same article. And I'm none to impressed with our disclaimer either - if views expressed here do not represent those of the '9/11 Truth Movement' where pray is the real thing to be found? Ronson's hardly going to make some sort of article out of the line 'the truth about 9/11 has not been established' or somesuch. |
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thought criminal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DrJazzz wrote: | Good let's hope you are done then thoughtcriminal.
I think we are being so damn precious here. Sure, we'd like there to be more 'real' journalists but as they hardly exist we have to hope to persuade guys like Ronson, who is at least making the effort to engage. If I'd been him and received the reception he got last time I'd have written the same article. And I'm none to impressed with our disclaimer either - if views expressed here do not represent those of the '9/11 Truth Movement' where pray is the real thing to be found? Ronson's hardly going to make some sort of article out of the line 'the truth about 9/11 has not been established' or somesuch. |
I would rather he didn't comment on 9/11 and expouse his woefully ill-informed views to an unsuspecting public. If he did this, then I and others would not feel compelled to castigate him.
Jon, please just stop talking rubbish about 9/11, you have promised before that you would not get involved again. If you are asked in the future about 9/11 I feel an answer of 'no comment' would suffice. Just be honest and tell them you do not know anough about it. This way, the 9/11 Movement and yourself can go their seperate ways, which I personallly feel would be the better road taken for all concerned. Thanks in advance
Last edited by thought criminal on Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DrJazzz
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I would say this to Jon:
The truth about 9/11 IS going to break. Sure, we're still a minority taking a lot of flak and ridicule. But years ago we were just a few guys on the internet, now halls are being sold out, bereaved families are suing Bush, and guys like William Rodriguez are doing tours of the UK. Polls show that increasing numbers don't buy the official nonsense anymore. It's a surge from the grassroots.
The tide is turning. Journalists like Ronson might want to start taking the whole thing a bit more seriously so they can say they were at the party rather than left outside with egg all over their faces. |
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andyb
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Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: SW London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | I find it impossible to believe that Jon Ronson is an honest man.
He rubbishes the 9/11 Truth movement at every opportunity but I have yet to see him engage with the hard issues (the collapse of Building 7 and the free-fall-speed collapses of the twin towers) and explain to us why we are wrong to insist that these were controlled demolitions.
He has engaged in this manner on this forum a couple of times......averting his gaze from the inexplicable and the difficult, instead choosing to base his opinions on some random invented perspective of his own.......as in..," If I had been president Bush, I wouldn't have been talking about goats to schoolchildren, nor would I have crashed a plane into the Pentagon.That's ridiculous. It's the most highly defended building on Earth, for God's sake. nor would I have destroyed 3 towers. One is obviously quite enough!...therefore it is ridiculous to suggest that it was an inside job, etc...."
This approach to such a serious issue is so lame it needs hospitalisation.
Come on folks. Wake up. How many people do you know who have actually looked at the evidence who do not think that 9/11 was an inside job.
Stop giving this fellow a respect he does not deserve and stop hoping that his is a spirit of truth that will side with us some day soon. This guy will side with us after we have won the argument in the public domain.
Behind all that soppy flaky bonhomie is a hard-edged calculating individual. Having seen his form so far, if and when he comes over to our side I will give some serious time to the possiblity that I am on the wrong track entirely. |
KBO, lighten up fella! You can't moan about him painting us in a bad light and then abuse him. Throwing unfounded accusations is hardly going to make him even want to look at the evidence. It would put most off. I doubt Jon would attack us if we didn't post insulting commenst as above. So he returns to the forum and you and Prole art threat(sorry Thought Control) give him more ammo for another hit piece. I really do despair at times.
I agree that there are major problems with the media but this isn't Jon's fault. How does he control Murdoch's and the advertisers agenda. I actually worked at the Guardian for a while and have seen how things work. After 7/7 if there were any articles saying anything that the bombers had been driven by our foreign policy then major US advertisers pulled cash as they believed the Guardian to be sympathetic to the terrorists. The chief exec has the editor and the head of sales up in daily meetings. The head of sales mentions this and the chief exec will say that they need ot pull these stories to protect profit. This is what drives the media, money, it isn't a great conspiracy but quite simple. Let's also not forget that the Guardian pulls in over £1million a week in job advertising, a large proprtion of which is from government jobs. This advertising can easily be switched to another paper if anything too close to the bone is published. I had heard that this did happen after the Meacher article but that was before my time. Advertising makes the vast majority of the money for these papers.
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thought criminal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| What has the above post got to do with anything? You people. YOU PEOPLE! |
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Blimey, reading this thread anyone would think Jon Ronson was THE secret ruler of the world and was personally responsible for the current state of the world.
He gets called every name under the sun and then gets blamed for being dismissive of the truth movement (!?). Shouting at people who can't 'see the truth' is no way to win an argument.
I actually first heard of Bilderberg watching the Secret rulers of the World (twas the days before I had the internet) and though I don't buy this lizards stuff and a lot of his other ideas, the episode on David Icke made me see Icke as actually being a sane and likeable guy. Like it or not, Ronson has done a fair bit to give publicity to some 'fringe' ideas.
As journalists go, what about Melanie Philips? Nick Cohen? Peter Hitchens? picking on Jon Ronson seems a little OTT in comparison.
Thought Criminal; I was mighty curious about the comment you said he'd made about the war - since he denies this, could you provide any source? Otherwise, whatever your antipathy to the guy, wouldn't it be the honourable thing to do to at least apologise if you were wrong?
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| andyb wrote: | | .....You can't moan about him painting us in a bad light and then abuse him. Throwing unfounded accusations is hardly going to make him even want to look at the evidence..... |
And what unfounded accusations are those?
He has had plenty of opportunity to look at the evidence. He has absolutely no excuse for not doing so seeing as how he is happy to pass his judgement on these most serious matters in the national press. It has been his absolute duty to look at the evidence.
As a writer in the national press he enjoys a huge opportunity that will never be afforded to the likes of me or you.
The Guardian's advertising income is no excuse for his choosing to be in the vanguard of the anti-9/11 Truth propagandists. OK, he would not be allowed to agree with us in public. If he had kept his mouth shut it might be reasonable to hope for his support some time in the future.
As it is I am not moaning about him painting us in a bad light. This is a good thing. His colours have been clearly nailed to the mast.
I am moaning that there are still some deluded people on this site who continue to see him as a potential ally.
Ignore the style. Look at the substance.
Let me be clear once again....and this is not abuse....it is a judgement based on the available evidence.
Jon Ronson is not an honest man. |
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thought criminal
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | andyb wrote: | | .....You can't moan about him painting us in a bad light and then abuse him. Throwing unfounded accusations is hardly going to make him even want to look at the evidence..... |
And what unfounded accusations are those?
He has had plenty of opportunity to look at the evidence. He has absolutely no excuse for not doing so seeing as how he is happy to pass his judgement on these most serious matters in the national press. It has been his absolute duty to look at the evidence.
As a writer in the national press he enjoys a huge opportunity that will never be afforded to the likes of me or you.
The Guardian's advertising income is no excuse for his choosing to be in the vanguard of the anti-9/11 Truth propagandists. OK, he would not be allowed to agree with us in public. If he had kept his mouth shut it might be reasonable to hope for his support some time in the future.
As it is I am not moaning about him painting us in a bad light. This is a good thing. His colours have been clearly nailed to the mast.
I am moaning that there are still some deluded people on this site who continue to see him as a potential ally.
Ignore the style. Look at the substance.
Let me be clear once again....and this is not abuse....it is a judgement based on the available evidence.
Jon Ronson is not an honest man. |
And I think that just about sums everything up beautifully, kbo. Jon Ronson was never ever going to become an ally in our cause. The man has an agenda, he always has had and always will have. The best this movement can do is avoid him at all costs. |
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rodin
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | Blimey, reading this thread anyone would think Jon Ronson was THE secret ruler of the world and was personally responsible for the current state of the world.
He gets called every name under the sun and then gets blamed for being dismissive of the truth movement (!?). Shouting at people who can't 'see the truth' is no way to win an argument.
I actually first heard of Bilderberg watching the Secret rulers of the World (twas the days before I had the internet) and though I don't buy this lizards stuff and a lot of his other ideas, the episode on David Icke made me see Icke as actually being a sane and likeable guy. Like it or not, Ronson has done a fair bit to give publicity to some 'fringe' ideas.
As journalists go, what about Melanie Philips? Nick Cohen? Peter Hitchens? picking on Jon Ronson seems a little OTT in comparison.
Thought Criminal; I was mighty curious about the comment you said he'd made about the war - since he denies this, could you provide any source? Otherwise, whatever your antipathy to the guy, wouldn't it be the honourable thing to do to at least apologise if you were wrong? |
My GIM chums assure me that 'lizards' is a metaphor.
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thought criminal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | Blimey, reading this thread anyone would think Jon Ronson was THE secret ruler of the world and was personally responsible for the current state of the world.
He gets called every name under the sun and then gets blamed for being dismissive of the truth movement (!?). Shouting at people who can't 'see the truth' is no way to win an argument.
I actually first heard of Bilderberg watching the Secret rulers of the World (twas the days before I had the internet) and though I don't buy this lizards stuff and a lot of his other ideas, the episode on David Icke made me see Icke as actually being a sane and likeable guy. Like it or not, Ronson has done a fair bit to give publicity to some 'fringe' ideas.
As journalists go, what about Melanie Philips? Nick Cohen? Peter Hitchens? picking on Jon Ronson seems a little OTT in comparison.
Thought Criminal; I was mighty curious about the comment you said he'd made about the war - since he denies this, could you provide any source? Otherwise, whatever your antipathy to the guy, wouldn't it be the honourable thing to do to at least apologise if you were wrong? |
My GIM chums assure me that 'lizards' is a metaphor. |
That's your GIMP chums for you. What do you think 'lizards' means? |
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andyb
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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KBO, perhaps he may have looked at the evidence if some on here were not so insulting. My parents don't believe it was an inside job but I don't abuse them for this and if I did it wouldn't get me anywhere.
Accusation below:
| Quote: | | find it impossible to believe that Jon Ronson is an honest man |
It takes months of research to come to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. Abusing someone will put them off even wanting to do the research. It is a crucial time for us as the Iran's time draws closer and we should be trying our hardest to get this message out. Like it or not the mainstream media are our best bet, and abusing someone who has a track record of being open to non-mainstream ideas is inherently idiotic. I really do think that some posters really like this being a fringe movement. Why not instead of posting on this thread write to journalists, MP's, go and leaflet, organise a talk or film screening. Surely that is more constuctive??
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"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King |
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thought criminal
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Posts: 574
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| andyb wrote: | | Why not instead of posting on this thread write to journalists, MP's, go and leaflet, organise a talk or film screening. Surely that is more constuctive?? |
Why not, indeed. See ya! |
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andyb
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Location: SW London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well Prole Art Thought Control, I have been, funnily enough never bumped into you though seeing your location is London too. Were always asking for help on the campaigning or events sections but you would rather moan about lack of awareness on here than actualy get the word out. Oh, any chance of some proof for your claim Ronson was pro-war or did you see it on a hologram?
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"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King |
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| jonronson wrote: | | andyb wrote: | | I realise there were a few peopl who were slightly aggressive towards you but there were also some trying to have a reasoned debate |
Slightly aggressive!!!
Andy, you were indeed not rude to me last time. And for those people who felt unfairly tainted, I apologise. But if you walk into a room and a loaqd of people start screaming abuse at you, you can be forgiven for not noticing those who don't.
I will try and come to that feb date if I am in London, but I can't be sure I am around.
But I tell you what - forget anti-semitism and insults. If your posters write such barefaced lies as claiming I said I was privy to secret pre-war information, THAT'S quite enough to make your movement look tainted in the eyes of onlookers. |
looking for any excuse to discredit the movement? any excuse not to listen to those who are reasonable and dont write lies about you. so you decide to turn what a few people say that i certainly dont have control over and put those words in the mouth of the movement as a whole. if thats what you have to do for writing material i find it very sad and i hope that isnt the case.
i dont agree with those that gave you grief in anyway shape or form, but i do think you have not given us the proper chance we deserve before writing your own lies (in my view) about the whole truth movement, but maybe i think that way because i did give these guys a chance and i dont mean the ones that use personnal slurs.
by no means would i ever expect you to agree with anything people are saying here but dont see how you can judge us all on a few when you havnt really gave the vast majority of us a chance to engage in discussion with yourself.
there is always a bad apple in every crowd and i think it is unfair that you focus on that only. but then it depends on what your intentions were when you first joined and so far and i admit i may be wrong but the way it looks to me is that you wanted writing material to discredit the movement.
if you joined to find out what we really think and why we think 9/11 did not happen how we were told, then we are still waiting for that chance thanks to those that offened you.
i apologize if i have said anything you find uncomfortable i am just being honest with the way i see it, and these are my views only and do not nessarily represent the views of the 9/11 truth movement.
i hope you come back to engage in discussion and give the rest of us a fair chance and to prove me wrong but i dont hold to much hope. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| andyb wrote: | | It takes months of research to come to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. |
No I would say it takes few hours to watch a selection of the current videos available on the subject to realise that there is something more than a little bit fishy about 9/11 and that it merits further investigation.
Within the day it is possible to learn of the range of opinion that exists within the movement and that we are not all a bunch of irrational losers akin to the simpsons' comic book guy or closet racists and that there are actually a lot of 'credible' and 'rational' people who strongly suspect 9/11 was an inside job.
Is Jon secretly the anti-christ? Is he worse than Peter Hitchins and Nick Cohen? No. But that doesn't excuse his piss poor journalism or his snide, flippant treatment of such an important issue. |
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andyb
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Location: SW London
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Ian,
Fair enough it is quite obvious it is fishy and the commission report is a sham. One only needs to watch Press for Truth or have a look at the questio ns submitted by the families that are yet to be answered. Getting to an inside job conclusion does take time though.
I would advise Jon to watch Press for Truth, to make the time to meet William Rodriguez or come to his talk in London, before writing hit pieces on the movement using minority views. I'm sure that a lot of people on here were fans of his and he has aliented them somewhat with his article. I'm happy to give him time to look at the questions before dubbing him the antui-christ.
_________________
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King |
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