'102 Minutes' - New York Times bestseller

[Westgate]

First - apologies if this has already been posted before.

Like most of you I imagine, I have imported many books from the USA on 911 - they have all lived up to expectations and are a constant source of reference. But at my local Borders bookstore a couple of weeks ago, I came across a paperback entitled '102 Minutes - The Untold Story of The Fight to Survive Inside The Twin Towers'. By Jim Dwyer & Kevin Flynn. Both write in the New York Times. Guessing this would be somewhat, shall we say 'sanitised', that is in terms of any details that may give any games away, I still decided to buy it. It is a harrowing account of what it must have been like inside both of the towers. It also gives full references to where information was obtained - all personal or official sources as expected. But there are a couple of passages that are worth consideration:-

Page 93 - "Stan, are you watching the monitor - are you watching the news to see what is going on?" she asked. "Yes" he assured her again. "I'm fine". As he spoke, Praimnath spun his seat around so he was facing in the direction of the window, though he was not staring out. His window looked south over New York Harbour and the Statue of Liberty...........From the corner of his eye, he glimpsed an unfamiliar shape on the horizon. Praimnath turned slightly, to look square out the window. An airplane. It was heading toward his office, toward his window, it seemed. He could see the red and blue marking and the letter U as is approached. He dived under his desk, screaming to God, as his colleague in Chicago listened on the phone and watched the television screen in horror. In the length of a drawn breath, the ceiling collapsed. The time was 9:0:59 am, and United Airlines Flight 175 now plunged through the South Tower of the World Trade Center, including the room where Stanley Praimnath had jumped beneath his desk...........The wing of the jet was jammed into a door, twenty feet from where Praimnath, still alive, huddled beneath his desk.
Page 203 - By the time John Peruggia, the Fire Department's delegate, reached 7 World Trade Center, that building was being evacuated because of worries that a third plane was bound for New York. So instead of using the Mayor's bunker, the emergency response officials huddled in the lobby. Over the next few minutes, Peruggia heard a warning that he could scarcely believe, but did not dare to dismiss. An engineer from the Department of Buildings reported that the structural damage appeared to be immense. The stability of both buildings was compromised. In particular, the engineer was worried about how long the north tower would stand...........The Buildings Department engineer did not care what had been promised a decade earlier, or three decades earlier. In glimpses when the flow of smoke parted he could see the damage. Peruggia summoned an emergency medical technician, Rich Zarillo, who was working for him as an aide. He was to go immediately from 7 World Trade Center to the command post where the senior fire commander, Chief of Department Peter Ganci, was located, on West Street, across from the north tower. "You see Chief Ganci, and Chief Ganci only," Peruggia said. "Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse."
Page 208 - On the street, Rich Zarillo had arrived at the West Street command post with the message from the Buildings Department engineer that the towers were near collapse, and told Chief Ganci's aide, Fire Marshal Steve Mosiello. Mosiello turned to his boss, a few steps away, involved in other business. "Chief, these buildings are in imminent danger of collapse," Mosiello reported. Ganci looked stunned. "Who would tell you something like that?" he asked. After thirty three years in the Fire Department Pete Ganci had risen to chief of department, and he knew full well that skyscrapers do not collapse from less than an hour of fire. Mosiello turned to the messenger. "Richie, come over here and tell the chief what you just told me," Mosiello said.
Page 210 - At that moment, at the command center on West Street, Chief Ganci had just finished hearing the message delivered by Rich Zarillo about the threat of an imminent collapse. A gathering rumble filled the air. "What the f**k is that?" Ganci asked. A glance at the south tower, it's top dissolving into smoke, answered his question.

End of extracts

Prainmath obviously thought he was watching an approaching aircraft, must also have become totally convinced it was, shortly after his office collapsed and he saw part of the wing embedded nearby.



Who was the un-named Buildings engineer, who could tell just from seeing the smoke clouds part from the ground, that building collapse was imminent? He possibly knew it was approaching time for certain signals to be sent to commence CD perhaps?

[Leiff]

Thanks Westgate I don't think it has been posted before.

Did Stanley Praimnath make it out alive?

[Ed]

Just an unrelated comment, I was drawn by your opening comment about importing books, I am not at all trying to scare you, but just that I know of at least one person who has purchased books online. and lets just say that the books were about the subject of US politics without going into more detail.

That person was refused entry into the US based on a book referal. How the hell can the customs/borders know what you been doing on amazon? Seems abit OTT dont you think...

[Westgate]

Yes he did survive - he was rescued from his office by a guy called Brian Clark - then they walked all the way down. It must have been so frightening being trapped up there, as so many were.

On the subject of being refused entry to the US, that is most disturbing, especially as I am planning to go there possibly later this year once again.
Without sounding paranoid - I would imagine that most everything we use on the Internet has a 'back door' - Google, Amazon, Firefox, IE7 etc etc.
Bit of a bummer being turned back at point of entry though, just for buying a book from Amazon. Thanks for the heads up.

[Leiff]

Glad to hear it!

I guess that makes Stanley Praimnath the original 'plane hugger'.

[alwun]

Another useful take on the "The Surprising Adventures of Stanley Praimnath" can be read here.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/munchausen.html

cheers Al...

[Mark Gobell]

This chap's account of hiding under his desk after seeing an aircraft approaching his window, and still surviving, was included in one the many movies we were treated to back in Sept 2006.

The expert who was worried about the steel structure of WTC2 having been compromised by the jet fuel fires gave this advice via radio, the recording of which has never been revealed, only the "transcript".

[Westgate]

Thanks Mark - Do you happen to have a link to the transcription please?

Many thanks

[Mark Gobell]

Westgate.

I'm working on it.

All I and my mate remember is that we were watching one of the films last Sept 11th, I think it was the BBC 911: The Twin Towers but I won't be sure until I've finished downloading both parts from google video.

In whatever film it was, there was a guy among 2 or 3 others I think who went up into WTC2 was it, and he was either a structural chap, an architect or some kind of engineer because I remember that they said he knew about the steel and the construction. Anyway, it was his radio message that said something like he didn't like the look of the steel or girders or trusses because they were bending because of the jet fuel fires.

I immediately scoffed and looked it up on the net but could only find the transcript as there was a gap in the recording where he was supposed to have given that message.

If I had a name it would be easy, but I am looking for it.

[Mark Gobell]

OK the chaps I referred to are Frank de Martini, one of the designers of the Towers, who perished that day and Pablo Ortiz.

Here's a link to them and the intermittent transcript of the radio.

http://www.mishalov.com/wtc_portauthoritytranscrip.html

Now, off to find the transcripts.

[Mark Gobell]

OK the chaps I referred to are Frank de Martini, one of the designers of the Towers, who perished that day and Pablo Ortiz.

Here's a link to them and the description of the intermittent transcript of the radio.

http://www.mishalov.com/wtc_portauthoritytranscrip.html

There is an interruption in the transmission.

[Westgate]

Mark thanks so much for all your hard work - I really appreciate that.

102 minutes - page 3 - Frank worked for The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which built and owned the WTC. The Agency had just completed a deal to lease the entire complex to Larry Silverstein..............

Page 147 - around 9:15 Drohan heard De-Martini over the walkie talkie - "any construction engineer at ground level"
Drohan acknowledged that he was on the street. "Can you escort a couple of structural inspectors to the 78th floor?" De-martini asked.
De-Martini had seen something in the steel - Drohan was not sure what - that he did not like. The drywall had been knocked off part of the lobby, exposing the elevator shafts, and revealing the core of the building. That had prompted his first radio alert, warning that the elevators might collapse.

The book then goes on to explain in detail that the police would not let Drohan or any inspectors back into the tower - saying that the fire department could deal with it.

Page 149 - when he was interviewed in January 2001 for the History Channel, documentary about the towers...................the answer he said was the pinstriped columns around the outside of the towers. "I believe the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door, this intense grid". De Martini said "And the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing the screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting".

Page 150 - De Martini wanted the structural engineers up to the sky lobby , to look into the gaping holes..........................15 minutes after his first warning De Martini broadcast another.

De Martini: Construction manager to base, be advised that the express elevators are in danger of collapse. Do you read?
Male: (inaudible)
De Martini: Relay that, Chris, to the firemen, that the ele-
Male: Express elevators are gonna collapse?....Advise....What Elevators?...All express elevators? Which specific.....specific ones? (pause)
Male (inaudible)

OK Mark, now I am going to listen/read all that you have kindly linked me to and see how that compares to the book. I must be a right 'durr brain' for not realising that was De Martini in my first posting. I just wonder what he saw that gave him such cause for concern?

Thanks again mate.

[Mark Gobell]

LOL me too - so obvious now.

I find it suspicious that the very chap who had previously said that the WTC could probably withstand multiple aircraft impacts was then quoted without any proof due to a missing part of a radio transmission, that he was "worried" about the steels.

Also, wasn't he attending a meeting of other WTC designers, architects or some such called for that very morning in the WTC. I know he worked there and his wife did too, but I'm sure there was ameeting called that day.

[Westgate]

No mention of a meeting that day, but they were sorting masses of documents and drawings ready for the transfer of the lease from the Port Authority to Larry Silverstein.

There is one important description about De Martini's job:-

page 146/7 - ............De Martini and Ortiz, working with a crowbar and a long flashlight, as if rescuing people were the jobs that they had been hired for. The truth was that neither man had a role in the official evacuation or emergency plans for the buildings. Their regular job was to oversee tenant renovations, with De Martini supervising a team that made sure all changes met Port Authority standards. Both men knew the building, how it worked, and in some ways they loved it..............

So Martini was not a structural engineer, that's why he radioed for a couple to be sent up. The unanswered question is 'what did he see in the steels on the 78th floor that worried him'?

[Mark Gobell]

Or, did he even say it ?

[Eckyboy]

That is some Building Damage Engineer. Maybe he hails from the Planet Krypton and has X-ray vision. I would love to know how anyone with or without engineering or structural knowledge could tell the structure was compromised from the outside. Who is this man? does he not have a name? Is it just a coincidence that someone in the mysterious WTC7 knew that the buildings were about to collapse when nobody else except Mayor Rudy knew what was going to happen? Both men are connected to Building7.

[PaulStott]