View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Whitehall_Bin_Men Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 3205 Location: Westminster, LONDON, SW1A 2HB.
|
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: Daniel Obachike's blog - Tavistock Square survivor |
|
|
The Angels And Agents Of Tavistock Square
http://www.the4thbomb.com/
That morning many good human values immediately came to the fore, amidst evil in one of its purest forms.
I’d hurriedly left the death strewn by the blast in my wake but was befuddled by what I saw ahead of me.
I stopped, turned round and was even more dumbfounded by what I saw.
Strangely I found myself drawn back to the scene of the crime and meandering between the angels and agents in Tavistock Square headed back towards the bus.
The angels I refer to were the healthcare professionals and staff that were quickly on hand in such shocking circumstances, trying to do whatever they could despite initially being aghast at the dead pieces of human flesh and bodies littering the square.
The agents on the other hand were conspicuous by the way they diligently adhered to their assigned tasks, proceeding busily, workman like almost as if they’d already displayed their grief and horror prior to the explosion.
Apart from the obvious foot soldiers, (the blokes in blue) there were one or two more covert ones that stuck in my mind for differing reasons.
Their cover was blown, not because of what they did, but because of what they didn’t do.
Faced with such an unprecedented and horrendous event most reactions would come down to fight or flight.
After my own flight and initial rage at all things and persons Transport For London (Bus drivers in particular), I turned to comfort a shocked victim showered with blood who had been walking alongside the bus at the time of the explosion. Those few who did neither were notable.
They stood back, observing the events and activities in its entirety, positioned in the same spot.
The man with the hat was one such individual but his case is particularly intriguing when compared to the plain intelligence officers and foot soldiers I referred to.
I was going to make a point of highlighting him in my forthcoming novel: The 4th Bomb, but editorial considerations meant his 15 minutes is surplus to requirement.
My editor felt that whilst interesting the section on him ‘acted as a diversion’ to the storyline.
The irony is, a part of me thinks that is what he was doing there that morning.
I present compelling evidence that the smartly dressed man in grey was fully aware of what was about to take place and was prepared to be part of the aftermath but got caught out because the bus blew up just a couple of meters into Tavistock Square while he was positioned 60 meters away further down from the blast.
Images show the main force of the blast went backwards and one victim, a woman died because she crossed the road from the square behind the bus at the time of the explosion.
So how can anyone 60 meters ahead of the bus to be hurled aside or sustain any kind of physical injuries.
I knew his injuries were improvised, immediately putting 2 and 2 together when I saw his hat lying on the ground next to him.
He wore a large bandage around his head and had a tear along one trouser leg that went neatly along the seam.
The bandage 60 seconds after the blast.
This was way too fast, long before any medical assistance had arrived.
The blood on my own shirt is derived from a woman who was showered with the victim’s blood.
She had been walking beside the bus at the time.
The grey suited man had no blood on him at whatsoever indicating he was far from the bus.
Even the African traffic warden on the opposite side of the road who the driver called out to said he had a piece of human flesh on his arm.
We may never know his true purpose that day.
But what it does do is single him out as someone who had prior knowledge.
Who knew in advance? Only the perpetrators? _________________ --
'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alkmyst Moderate Poster
Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: Rachel vs. Daniel |
|
|
Where's Rachel?
Well, Rachel has already left her calling card on Daniel Obechike's blog; so we know she is well aware of Daniel's impending book release; the publication of which will be timed to co-incide with Rachel's own eye-witness account.
Rachel's book will undoubtedly wax lyrical about her pre-7/7 victim status, how she was co-incidentally reading an account of her earlier life trauma at the exact same time as the explosion on her train at Kings Cross. Rachel will harp on about her cut wrist, sustained as a result of being 7 yards (initial account) or 7 feet (later, more dramatic account) from the alleged perpetrator, Germaine Lindsay.
Much of Rachel's missive will revolve around her role as the 'leader' of Kings Cross United, the survivors group of which she is the self-appointed spokesperson. She will not be able to restrain herself from devoting a chapter or two to the demonisation of the 9/11 & 7/7 Truth Campaign. Re-quoting her oft repeated, yet unsubstantiated, allegations of persecution and even death threats.
Rachel will also make great play of her participation in the London Assembly 7th July Review Committee, which was established, "... to examine the lessons to be learned from the response to the London bombings on 7 July, and in particular communications issues ..."
One could be forgiven for assuming that the UK's undisputed expert on Crisis Management (the same guy who just happened to be running an exercise on 7/7, an exercise based upon bombs going off at exactly the same three railway stations where they actually exploded), would be called to offer his counsel to the Review Committee. So why wasn't Peter Power of Visor Consultants invited to appear?
Daniel Obechike has at least acknowledged that he has written his account of 7/7 as a novel, Rachel's selective memoirs will most likely be written in a similar vein to Milan Rai's pathetic attempt to prepare the ground for the release of the Government Narrative. Rachel's book will be a blatant attempt to bolster the credence of the official version of events ... just about the time that the jury are reaching their verdict on the 21/7 dupes!
One key point to consider is the time of the train that the alleged perpetrators supposedly boarded at Luton on the morning of July 7th:
1). Panorama & Milan Rai allege that they caught the 7:48am
2). The Government Narrative alleges they caught the 7:40am*
3). Rachel North will allege they caught the 7.24am
* As a result of the efforts of the July 7th Truth Campaign, John Reid subsequently announced that this was an error!
As has been proven since 16th August 2005, the 7.48am did not arrive at Kings Cross until eight minutes after the Kings Cross departure of the underground train which exploded at Edgware Road!
As has been proven since 16th August 2005, the 7.40am was [/b]cancelled! [/b]
The 7.24am had never been mentioned by the media, the Police or the any Government spokesman until after John Reid's statement that the narrative contained an error. The reality is that there is not a single witness statement from either station staff nor commuters, nor any released CCTV images, which support the belated claim that the alleged perpetrators were on the earlier train.
Doesn't it strike you as odd that the events of July 7th were apparently a 100% success, yet the CCTV wasn't functioning anywhere! Compare that with the current media bombardment of CCTV images from July 21st, an event that was supposedly a 100% failure. Why do you suppose that is?
Daniel Obechike's account of his July 7th experience may prove to be highly significant in the unravelling of the official story ... unless he has some skeletons in the closet, in which case they will be trotted out tout de suite to undermine his credibility.
Rachel's publishers are probably anticipating an intial print run of 100,000+; Daniel Obechike's book 'The 4th Bomb' should more than double that!
Al K Myst |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ian neal Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 3140 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Alkmyst
I agree the flip-flopping over which train the alleged bombers caught is fundamental to exposing the changing nature of the mainstream media/official narrative.
The narrative makes reference to several unnamed witnesses who positively identify and describe the alleged bombers behaviour.
Quote: | 7.40: The London King’s Cross train leaves Luton station. There are
conflicting accounts of their behaviour on the train. Some witnesses
report noisy conversations, another believes he saw 2 of them
standing silently by a set of train doors. The 4 stood out a bit from
usual commuters due to their luggage and casual clothes, but not
enough to cause suspicion. This was the beginning of the summer
tourist period and Luton Station serves Luton Airport. |
Presumably if the identity of these witnesses is ever publicly disclosed, they too will be able to shed some light on how this mistake over train times came to be repeated in an official narrative and why if they were in fact on the 7.24 train that none of them came forward themselves to point out this error in the official narrative. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pikey Banned
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1491 Location: North Lancashire
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jason67 Moderate Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 129 Location: SE London
|
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This looks like the same company. The 'a' in Kingstar is small and the 'k' looks the same as well. Saying that they do loads of other general building work and I'm not sure that they would be advertising their presence at the scene of the crime....
http://www.kingstar.co.uk/demoli.htm |
|
Back to top |
|
|
flamesong Major Poster
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 1305 Location: okulo news
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnw04 New Poster
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Suffolk
|
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I keep an open mind with this interview.
If the information he gave in the interview with Alex is the truth, it is ground breaking. The only reservations I have are that (1) he did appear to be reading a lot of the time, and (2) the symbol/icon for his website is a triangle with his eye in the centre (the all seeing eye).
(1) If I had a similar experience I would certainly write out my account, to logically deal with the situation so that my emotions do not compound the trauma, to avoid PTSD.
Also, if I had a chance to expose my information to the world on radio, and this may well be my only chance to do so. I would definitely make sure I wrote cue cards of my experience so I didn't skip over any relevant and key information.
(2) He may well be very familiar with the whole new world order game. He could be using the secret language of the illuminati i.e. cap stone of the pyramid with the all seeing eye in it to express this.
Or, he maybe a disinformer and using this symbolism to communicate with others. To people unfamiliar with the symbolism it would not register at all.
I myself sway toward believing him, (about 75% - 25% ) , I think that the symbolism is widely known about today. Nevertheless, I like to keep an open mind and look forward to his book and future revelation he talked about in the interview.
Be True-to-soul.
Sinnerwithsoul. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
|
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am very dubious about his account. A bomb goes off on the bus he is travelling on blowing it apart, he gets out, presumably in a state of extreme shock, but he knows exactly where other witnesses were standing? The bus driver says the mass of people in road in Euston Road meant that he was hardly moving, and the police directed all traffic into Tavistock Square, but he has a story about two cars arriving and directing the bus alone into the square? Now he is writing a novel based on his experience. I have no idea what he is up to, but I certainly do not accept his story at face value. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
|
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bushwacker wrote: | I am very dubious about his account. A bomb goes off on the bus he is travelling on blowing it apart, he gets out, presumably in a state of extreme shock, but he knows exactly where other witnesses were standing? The bus driver says the mass of people in road in Euston Road meant that he was hardly moving, and the police directed all traffic into Tavistock Square, but he has a story about two cars arriving and directing the bus alone into the square? Now he is writing a novel based on his experience. I have no idea what he is up to, but I certainly do not accept his story at face value. |
so your just presumming he was in a state of shock?
even if he was in shock does that automatically mean you dont remember anything that happened after the event when you have calmed down and you would'nt beable to tell where people were stood at the time? the logic here is baffling unless you can prove:
1. he was in shock(everyone copes differantly afterall)
2. shock = amnesia or total loss of memory or poor judgement
i have been in a state of shock before and remember everything perfectly before, during and after the event, although the event was not on the scale of a bomb going of i did think i was going to die and ended up in shock because of it. unless he went unconsious due to the shock and his body shut down to recover(which can be dangerous) i cannot see his judgement being effected. so it only comes down to if you think he is telling the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
rodin Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2224 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If this Obachike geezer is kosher the drinks are on me (and I am an archetypal Scotsman) _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rachel On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 211
|
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As you have absolutely NO IDEA about the contents, print run, or timing of my book, 'Al K Myst', I'd appreciate it if you prefaced your ill-informed and factually incorrect witterings with something along the lines of...
''I have no idea about what the contents of Rachel's book will be but in my personal opinion, based on not having seen anything of the book, it might include...''
before launching into yet another spiteful and pointless personal attack on me.
Thanks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pikey Banned
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1491 Location: North Lancashire
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Linda Validated Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Romford Essex
|
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Enough said Pikey.
Not worth the hassle. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rachel On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 211
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry to disappoint you boys, but I have no desire to hang about with you chumps on this oddball site.
I have been here once before, yes indeedy, and I contributed on a thread devoted entirely to speculation about who I am, and what I believe, to let you know ...erm.. wait for it...who I am and what I believe. .
I thought evidence instead of speculation as to who I am and what I believe might be what 'truthseekers' actually sought.
You know, as that was what you were actually fervently discussing.
Alas, no. It was the thrills of more internet BB speculation you wanted, not a reality check. Rachel is a team of M15 agents! A lizard! A shill! A spook! A terrorist! A hologram! A hacker! Boo, hiss, Rachel, don't actually turn up here and present evidence of you actually being real. Noooooooooooo!
I soon realised that I'd rather spoiled your fun, you know, the person you were speculating about actually bothering to turn up and set you straight, as you much prefer speculation to facts, but there you go. It was too fascinating by then to resist.
A bunch of complete strangers talking about you, for pages and pages, speculating that you are a team of rogue agents! And then when you turn up, they will do backflips rather than drop their exciting little theory! I mean guys, come on. What would you do? Anyone would be amused and amazed in equal measure. It was, and still is, one of the funniest and oddest experiences I have ever had, being the subject of that bonkers thread.
You managed to successfully ignore all the evidence that you had a real live person talking to you ( not, sadly, a team of M15 lizards) for over, I think, 30 pages. Quite a feat! I guess that's the power of group-think, y'know, when you have your 'paradigm shift' and you Want To Believe.
You seemed to wake up and realise eventually that you ( as a group) didn't come across too well, and the ignorant pack-bullying mentality seen on the thread eventually embarassed you so much that the thread was locked. But not before the thread had become famous in the annals of the internet as a classic of its genre. Conspiraloon-tastic!
Own goal for the 9/11-ers, but never mind chaps.
And I have not bothered to return and engage since, as even the funniest comedy material becomes wearisome after it repeats ad nauseaum. And that's all this site ever does. Loop, loop, fruitloop loop. Same old same old fact-free, evidence-free speculations based on imaginings and unprovable, unproven hypotheses. *Yawn*
Perhaps if I ever write a comic novel, rather than a book on PTSD, I'll remember some of the characters here, as material inspiration. Because you really couldn't make some of you up. Even with the imaginations some of you clearly rejoice in possessing.
But get involved with the 9/11 Truthers? No. I have a life, sorry. it's just so du-u-u-u-u-u-ll.
However, as I said, I do however object to someone pretending they have read my book when they have no idea of
a) its publication date
b) its print run
c) its content
d) Or anything else about it, except possibly the title, which is still TTBC and the price, which is TBC
Therefore I popped in just one more time - to point out that the poster here was speculating about something he knows knows nothing about - and was in fact merely projecting his own imaginings and then reporting them as if they were fact.
Par for the course round here, I know, but since I am the author of the book, and therefore know 100% what is in it, I simply ask 'Al K Myst' to preface his ( incorrect) guesses about something he knows nothing about with the disclaimer that he admits he knows nothing about the book at all and therefore his post is merely ill-informed guesswork.
The only people who have seen the book are me, my publishers and my agent. None of whom are 9/11 'truth hunters'
Do carry on speculating about 9/11 and indulging your morbid little hobby if you must, but please leave my book out of it, as you have no idea what you are talking about. And in fact, almost all that you have guessed, is wrong!
Toodle pip lads, and watch out for the alien reptile overlords! And don't forget the tin foil hats.
Remember, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean that there isn;t a vast conspiracy of specially -trained agents with nothing better to do than obsessively monitor the internet for fruitbattery.
*mwah* Stay alive and be very very careful. Because you never know, do you? And you never, ever will.
What a hassle that must be. I wonder your minds don't give way entirely.
Tee hee.
xxx |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Linda Validated Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Romford Essex
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Rachel, and take your book with you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bushwacker Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1628
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Exactly, Rachel, truth is the last thing these ironically named truth-seekers want, it is way too dull, they need exciting theories to give them the thrill of pretending to know something the "sheeple" don't! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice to see you back Rachel. I still support your demand for an independant enquiry with all the evidence submitted.
I'd picked up that you want to exclude evidence that the official story was wrong and even impossible in many of it's parts, and that severely wrong information was repeated in the narrative
It would be good to have a debate without name-calling on the many issues still extant _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
Back to top |
|
|
numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Daniel Obachike's blog - Tavistock Square eyewitness |
|
|
Parallel_Organisation_Z wrote: | The Angels And Agents Of Tavistock Square
http://www.the4thbomb.com/
.......
The man with the hat was one such individual but his case is particularly intriguing when compared to the plain intelligence officers and foot soldiers I referred to.
I was going to make a point of highlighting him in my forthcoming novel: The 4th Bomb, but editorial considerations meant his 15 minutes is surplus to requirement.
My editor felt that whilst interesting the section on him ‘acted as a diversion’ to the storyline.
The irony is, a part of me thinks that is what he was doing there that morning.
I present compelling evidence that the smartly dressed man in grey was fully aware of what was about to take place and was prepared to be part of the aftermath but got caught out because the bus blew up just a couple of meters into Tavistock Square while he was positioned 60 meters away further down from the blast.
Images show the main force of the blast went backwards and one victim, a woman died because she crossed the road from the square behind the bus at the time of the explosion.
So how can anyone 60 meters ahead of the bus to be hurled aside or sustain any kind of physical injuries.
I knew his injuries were improvised, immediately putting 2 and 2 together when I saw his hat lying on the ground next to him.
He wore a large bandage around his head and had a tear along one trouser leg that went neatly along the seam.
The bandage 60 seconds after the blast.
This was way too fast, long before any medical assistance had arrived. |
Consider the possibility that the man in grey was from the Piccadilly line. Russell Square is just round the corner.
Note the yellow priority tag on his wrist and the Underground worker in the red jacket.
Thanks to Muncher for spotting this. _________________ Follow the numbers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Rachel
Nice to see you back on this forum. Ignore the love bombs - they are just trying to get you to join the community.
Did you ever hear from John Reid about the 7.40 train mistake? He said he would let you know.
Quote: | The Home Secretary made the following statement in the House of Commons
on 11 July 2006 (Column 1307):
"That is why I have assured the House in the past, and assured the
families of the victims of the 7/7 tragedy, that we would inform if, at
any point, new information on anything came to light. In that context, I
tell the House tonight that, at the end of last week, I was told that a
discrepancy had indeed come to light. The official account that we
provided to the House states that the train on which the bombers
travelled left Luton station at 7.40 am. The police have now told us
that that is incorrect—the train in fact left Luton station at 7.25 am.
It did, however, arrive at Kings Cross at 8.23 am, as recorded in the
official account. Although that does not appear to affect anything else
in the official account, it is nevertheless an error, which is why I
report it to the House. I can understand why this may be of concern to
some. I have asked the police, as Members would expect, for a full
report on how that discrepancy came about. I will ensure that the
official account is amended and will write to the survivors and to the
families of the victims on this matter." |
_________________ Follow the numbers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rachel On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 211
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
numeral wrote: | Hi Rachel
Nice to see you back on this forum. Ignore the love bombs - they are just trying to get you to join the community.
Did you ever hear from John Reid about the 7.40 train mistake? He said he would let you know.
Quote: | The Home Secretary made the following statement in the House of Commons
on 11 July 2006 (Column 1307):
"That is why I have assured the House in the past, and assured the
families of the victims of the 7/7 tragedy, that we would inform if, at
any point, new information on anything came to light. In that context, I
tell the House tonight that, at the end of last week, I was told that a
discrepancy had indeed come to light. The official account that we
provided to the House states that the train on which the bombers
travelled left Luton station at 7.40 am. The police have now told us
that that is incorrect—the train in fact left Luton station at 7.25 am.
It did, however, arrive at Kings Cross at 8.23 am, as recorded in the
official account. Although that does not appear to affect anything else
in the official account, it is nevertheless an error, which is why I
report it to the House. I can understand why this may be of concern to
some. I have asked the police, as Members would expect, for a full
report on how that discrepancy came about. I will ensure that the
official account is amended and will write to the survivors and to the
families of the victims on this matter." |
|
Hi Numeral,
Yep, we got a letter from him. I've got it knocking about somewhere. It was pretty bland from what I remember.
That bloke in the pic is from the Piccadilly line explosion. Rescued by a member of the LU Emergency response team, I think, and on route to (I think it was), British Transport Police building. I'm not 100% because I haven't met him personally but it ties in with what the station manager mentioned to me a while back. Note his grey face and dirty white shirt from the tunnel dust and smoke. Not sure what Daniel is on about re. agents, but its a novel he 's writing I think, not fact. He got in touch with me a while back but I haven't ever discussed his book with him, just sent him a message of support as a fellow PTSD sufferer. As I wasn't writing a book at the time my PTSD book wasn't discussed.
There'a survivor request out to S016 for CCTV to be released and they're looking at it with the Coroner, they have been holding back on stuff like that for the Coroner's report but are currently looking at the matter again, I understand. So who knows, maybe one day more CCTV stuff will be released.
@DH, to answer your question, I personally want an inquiry independent of Govt & the security services, as what comes out is compromised - in my opinion - in that it is hard for the Govt and security services to criticise failings if they are writing the reports themselves!
@9/11 group in general...
Much of the more grim evidential material that you guys are interested in such as the nature of the explosions and exactly how everyone died will come out at coroner's report stage. I am less interested in that, because I find it morbid and sad. Obviously I do not need to be convinced, I know what happened through my own experience and talking to many others who were there, and through seeing the photos of the train after the explosion. Yes, survivors can see the unreleased pics - with a counsellor - as part of the recovery process, and some of the injured and bereaved chose to view the shell of the carriage where their loved ones died before the train was taken away after the bombs.
Whereas you have your doubts.
As your doubts seem to me to be agenda -driven, because of a certain set of beliefs you have formed about 9/11, for whatever reason, I am unsure whether you will ever have them settled, whatever evidence you are shown, ever. And I don't really want to get caught up in arguing with you about it, as you will not listen to anything I say objectively, and the process is simply distressing. In the past I have found such beliefs painfully offensive, much as I find Holocaust-denial offensive, or statements such as 'Ian Huntely was innocent' offensive, now I just find them peculiar and sad. That's because I have moved on a bit in my recovery from all this, and have accepted that I can't change your minds and therefore it is better not to upset myself by trying.
If your friends were killed and injured by a drunk driver, and then 6 months later, you found a bunch of people on an internet board stating there was no car crash, instead your friends were bumped off by M15 and the drunk driver was innocent, I expect you would be angry at the time.
As to why I bother with the inquiry...
I am personally concerned about failures of imagination and failures of intelligence, lack of intra-agency info-sharing prior to 2005 eg: Special branch, police, SIS, M15, M16, ISC, etc - and I believe that the Government, and the last Government chose to ignore the UK-based and Pakistan-based (via training centres) radicalisation of Muslim youth (who were seizing on a particular Wahhabi/political ideology) as it was politically expedient to do so, rather than face the impact of domestic and foreign, economic and social policies over the years in the growth of radicalisation. Warnings were ignored, and thus the 7/7 bombers fell through net ( wait til Crevice ends for all that to come out). There is evidence for all of this, and it is very sad.
Other issues I campaign on are first aid kits in stations, light sticks & exit directions on tubes, faster compensation for the severely injured and bereaved whether injured in terrorism attacks here or abroad, better survivor aftercare and greater awareness of the effects of PTSD.
KCU is a non-political non-campaigning support group that came about after I started sharing my experiences on an Urban 75 thread where people were sharing their 7/7 experiences , and was then approached by the BBC to write a diary as a 'citizen journalist' for a week.
As a result of reading my diary account, people emailed me to say they were on the same train, they were all sending me individual messages wanting to talk, and I thought, well, it's be better if we all met in a group, as I can't cope with this on my own, and so we all went down the pub. From that small group the support group KCU grew. Just people who were stuck on the same train after the bomb: many people wanted to talk to others in the same boat and find the passengers they had been trapped underground with, the people who in many cases helped each other, shared tissues, water, kept each other calm etc.
It is a very powerful thing to find others who were there for many people, and can help with recovery. And there wasn't much help or info about, for survivors, and PTSD sufferers, and as I knew what PTSD can be like as I had had it before, as a result of an attempt on my life in 2002, I was very keen to help other passengers, and they were very keen to help other passengers too.So that's what we did.
After a few months we did a few articles and interviews about the group so other survivors knew we were there, this was a group decision and as the blogger, I got asked to write stuff and front stuff, I wasn't the only one who spoke out, others did too, and other KCU people did other stuff like manage emails, set up our website, welcome new members and act as travel buddies. We did it for each other as there was a need for people to find support in talking to others with a similar terrifying experience. I don't know if you can underatnd the motivation, but it is quite common for survivors to want to talk to other survivors and to form bonds.
The bereaved had a bereaved families group already, and had Family Liason Officers to help them, who were excellent. But hundreds of survivors simply wandered off in shock and had no help at all.
KCU is just the Piccadilly line survivors - we had a different experience to the other trains as we were trapped for longer, so people spoke to each other more underground, and we needed to keep the group a manageable size, and we all knew what had happened on our train so there was no risk of journalists or wierdoes trying to infiltrate the group by pretending they were there, when they weren't, as we could instantly check out stories with survivors on each carriage and this helped to keep the group a secure and safe place for people to share their feelings, knowing that everyone on the group had been through the same experience.
We offered to help Tavistock and Edgware and Aldgate set up their own groups too via the 7 July Assistance centre, but they had less success. The people who became Kings Cross Utd were just lucky in that we happened to have people on the trian who knew how to set up websites, and someone who had experience of PTSD, and there was my diary to form a focal point in the earliest days, so for us it all just came together and the group got started within a week of the bombs.
The media have got a bit obsessed with the story of the group, that's not my fault, they see it as an uplifting story, all those different people becoming friends after the bomb, a metaphor for hope and survival and what have you. Whatever. It's simply a very private group of people who can share experiences of PTSD and recovery together over email and in a pub.
I get dozens of media requests still, because I am accessible via my blog. I pass them faithfully onto the group but generally people aren't interested now we have got the message out that the group exists which was the point of the limited media activity we did last year at the anniversary, and in 2005 before the memorial service.
Some of the group have got interested in campaigning for an inquiry, and have started a seperate informal email group with some bereaved ans survivors form the other explosions. others just want to move on and get back to their lives. I am one of the ones who campaigns, it is my personal way of trying to get some good out of this so people suffer less next time there is a terrorist attack, which helps me with my survivor guilt, ( part of PTSD) and to work for good after a bad experience chimes with my personal political and religious beliefs.
Again, because of my personal blog, and the voluntary media fronting week I did for a bit before, when I was asked to by the group, I am still visible to the media so they keep coming through to me: as usual I pass on all requests to the inquiry campaign group so others can choose to speak out of they want. It's exhausting at times, but I am lucky to be here to do it, so I do it. And it helps me with my recovery, as I have said.
And now I have become a writer, so that is something else good that has come out of it for me. I have left my ad sales job. I no longer have to reavel on rush hour tubes, which is a relief.
Nobody I know or have met over the year supports any of the wilder conspiracy theories that do the rounds. Everyone I know accepts that it was 4 bombs in rucksacks carried by Khan, Tansweer, Lindsey and Hussein. They have gone with this because the evidence is overwhelming and there is no evidence at all of a conspiracy or cover up that has come out with regard to these men having done it. People are free to make up their own minds, from the info and experiences they have, just as you are. I realise this is probably going to be disappointing to you, but there you go. I am not a 'gatekeeper', I do not control any information - how could I? I'm just person who like everyone else has seen and heard and read the evidence and made up my mind. I have access to more info than you, yes, but in the end, you choose to make up your own mind. You guys are in a tiny minority, as you know. And I do not think it is fair to attack me for having the same opinion as pretty much everyone else on this, just because I happen to keep a blog and have become visible as a result of it.
I am aware of what J7 group call 'anomalies' and so far the only one I can concur with is the time of the train being wrong in the original narrative, however that does not change the facts of the case - that the suicide bombers did it.
Every other piece of 'evidence for a conspiracy' presented to me has seemed singularly un-compelling, and yes, I have looked carefully at it all.
I don't know why you have such a difficulty accepting that the 4 men did it but that isn't my problem, to be honest, I do however find the interest some of you have in trying to discredit the facts ghoulish and unhelpful - this is a mass murder case and I cannot see what good it does to deny the horrible reality in favour of exciting conspiracy theories.
As to 9/11, I am sure that was as described too in the US Govt Commission report and no amount of speculation of pods, holograms, mines, explosions etc is going to make me think differently, I'm afraid, nor do I see any point in arguing about it with you, any more than I would waste time arguing with a Jehovah's witness on my doorstep about their beliefs.
And that is probably it from me, I'm afraid, as I said, I don't argue with Jehovah's witnesses and I don't really see the point in coming here and arguing with you. If you really are open to the truth, I hope you find it, as it clearly distresses many of you to think in this way and be so fearful of Governments. If you are simply here to peddle daft theories, I respectfully request you leave me out of it: you are picking on the wrong person to try and recruit into this thing.
Edited for spelling. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
scar Moderate Poster
Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 724 Location: Brighton
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rachel wrote: |
As to 9/11, I am sure that was as described too in the US Govt Commission report and no amount of speculation of pods, holograms, mines, explosions etc is going to make me think differently, I'm afraid, nor do I see any point in arguing about it with you, any more than I would waste time arguing with a Jehovah's witness on my doorstep about their beliefs. |
Have you seen 9/11 Press For Truth?
Made by the families of victims of 9/11 it shows what a farce the 9/11 Commission report is. A cover up. No pods, holograms, mines? or explosions in sight. There is far more to 911 than just that as you would know if you had looked into it at all.
From your post i assume you arent really interested, you appear more interested in making the truth movement sound like a collection of lunatics than in the truth.
Impenetrable beliefs that you know 100% truth, in lieu of investigation, are surely not wise.
Have you read the report? Have you read its critique? - Omissions and Distortions?
Im not sure what happened but im fairly sure the Commission report is a lie. As you are so sure of its veracity i think you sound quite like a jehovahs witness yourself... impenetrable belief you know 100% truth being a calling card.
Rachel wrote: | And that is probably it from me, I'm afraid, as I said, I don't argue with Jehovah's witnesses and I don't really see the point in coming here and arguing with you. If you really are open to the truth, I hope you find it, as it clearly distresses many of you to think in this way and be so fearful of Governments. If you are simply here to peddle daft theories, I respectfully request you leave me out of it: you are picking on the wrong person to try and recruit into this thing. |
For someone who doesnt 'argue with jehovahs witnesses' you appear to have made quite a lengthy post here arguing with 'them'... everyone lumped into one unthinking mass...
If you really are open to the truth, I hope you find it, as it clearly comforts you to think so highly of your government. If you are simply here to peddle the Governments version of events, I respectfully request you to leave me out of it and stick to critics corner...
I dont see anyone trying to recruit you here. You are free to believe the lies of your 'loving government' if it comforts you.
Your government loves you and would never ever do anything to hurt you or any of us. Depleted Uranium is completely harmless.
If you have no knowledge of the crimes of this and past governments i feel very sorry for you. Falseflag terrorism is very real, denial of it will not make it go away and will in fact enable it to continue.
All the Best |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ian neal Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 3140 Location: UK
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
For the information of all posters.
There was a very positive and constructive meeting in Bristol this weekend to discuss the moderation and future design of this forum as well as the development of the campaign website www.911truthcampaign.net . More on these wider discussions and decisions to follow in due course.
At this meeting it was agreed that there would be renewed resolve amongst the moderators to stamp down on abusive posting. One of the key examples of abusive posting is when evidence-free accusations and speculation are made that a poster is a shill. In other words that someone is not being honest and is in some way not what they claim to be.
If anyone has evidence that they wish to present that is a different matter. If anyone wishes to present such a case I recommend they contact me in the first instance to discuss further, other wise any accusations of shill or the like against Rachel or anyone else will led to a ban.
I say all this, because as one of the moderators I will not tolerate any repetition of the type of abuse that occured on the thread to which Rachel refers.
My understanding based on Rachel's writings is that she does not support the need to reopen the 9/11 investigation and so technically this makes her a 'critic'. However, presuming Rachel is only here to discuss July 7, I am willing to allow Rachel to continue to post in the July 7 section.
And just in case readers are not absolutely crystal clear, I restate that the views expressed on this forum do not in any way represent the views of the 911 Truth Campaign (Britain & Ireland)
Thank you |
|
Back to top |
|
|
scar Moderate Poster
Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 724 Location: Brighton
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
ian neal wrote: |
At this meeting it was agreed that there would be renewed resolve amongst the moderators to stamp down on abusive posting. One of the key examples of abusive posting is when evidence-free accusations and speculation are made that a poster is a shill. In other words that someone is not being honest and is in some way not what they claim to be.
If anyone has evidence that they wish to present that is a different matter. If anyone wishes to present such a case I recommend they contact me in the first instance to discuss further, other wise any accusations of shill or the like against Rachel or anyone else will led to a ban. |
Excellent. Exactly what is needed here. The constant accusations do nothing but cause ill-feeling and negativity. They are utterly pointless.
I didnt see the thread where these accusations were levelled at Rachel but im guessing it was the usual suspects. People shouting accusations without proof are more suspect IMO than anyone else due to the atmosphere they create.
As you said a long time ago Ian, 'I suspect those who scream shill the loudest' or words to that effect. So true. _________________ Positive...energy...activates...constant...elevation. (Gravediggaz) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rachel On Gardening Leave
Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 211
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | it clearly comforts you to think so highly of your government. If you are simply here to peddle the Governments version of events, I respectfully request you to leave me out of it and stick to critics corner...
I dont see anyone trying to recruit you here. You are free to believe the lies of your 'loving government' if it comforts you. |
It should be quite clear that I am a frequent, vocal critic of the Government's policies, as evidenced by my blogging, what I say on TV, the radio, in the press and in a forthcoming documentary film, and my campaigning for civil liberties and an independent 7/7 inquiry.
I refer you to easily accessible factual evidence for this. You only need to look, insptead of suspect, and find out facts, instead of indulge in speculation
The thread which contains nonstop abuse which Ian refers to is here
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=811
I am glad that Ian is now belatedly taking a stand against such abuse.
I came upon the thread having been told about it - a whole thread devoted to discussing who I am and what I believe - by a reader of my blog. How odd, I thought, and checked it out...
On that thread, I was amzed to see wild, fact-free, evidence-free specualtions and accusations were repeatedly made against me such as Rachel is...
the tool of 'criminal spooks ( insidejob)
Quote: | Rachel from north London could indeed exist. She could wittingly or unwittingly allow spooks to use her name to cause dissent among, waste time of and gain intelligence about 9/11 and 7/7 sceptics. Spooks are having her pose as someone who wants an inquiry to make out that she is not a stooge and fool the sceptics. |
Quote: | Her Internet emotional profile has to be challenged | (insidejob)
Quote: | if people like Rachel are spooks then it may be useful to find out what their propaganda is. | ( insidejob)
Quote: | My tuppence on Rachel is there is more than 1 person behind her writing. I don't know why but I feel like a male wrote much of her stuff on Cox's forum. No proof like, just a hunch | ( Ally)
Quote: | I have followed Rachel's postings on u75 boards. She is a real person as demonstrated by her meeting with several of the regular posters on u75. My advice is unless you can prove she is a spook (nigh impossible) I would steer clear of suggesting as much on public bulletin boards | ( Ian Neal).
(Erm...thanks for the vote of confidence, Ian! Unless you can prove...not really quite the same as acceptance of who I am, is it?)
Quote: | Earlier todayThe Alex Cox Forum was hacked and is currently off-line!
Entirely co-incidental, no doubt! | ( Al K Myst accuses me of being a hacker)
Quote: | Rachel is a total shill. I noticed Cox's forum has been under malicious attack since she abused everyone then deleted all her posts from there.
The nonsense she writes on her blog makes me want to puke, it sounds straight from tavistock. | (Ally)
Quote: | just after 'Team Rachel' had deleted all their postings on the Alex Cox Forum, the site was hacked | ( Al K Myst)
Quote: | The whole circumstances of (Team) Rachel's posts on there, togther with the subsequent deletion & the consequent hacking of the site (twice) is VERY interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if that forum goes down again! | ( Sinclair)
For the record, the thread discusses me appearing on yet another BB in which I was less than thrilled to have the following insults thrown at me>
chavez wrote:
Rachel is 100% COINTELPRO
No evidence to support her claims.
commanderson wrote:
my my, nerves do get fraught, in the realm of information dispersal and disposal, wherein rachaels task lies, to dilute and distract from folks openly sharing pertinent information. I must entirely agree with chavez that rachael seems to have far too much time on her hands to be re-educating us poor deluded conspiracy theorists, evangelising for just an acceptance that it was ofcource those angry arabs, rather than an investagation of the facts. As she laments over the terrible mauling metered out by the savage wingnuts on a poor bombing victim, you can even hear the splash of crocidle tears. Maybe she is a lizard?
chavez wrote:
Stop bloody lying Rachel and show us some proof please.
Typical disinfo shill, all BS and no evidence.
Don't expect Rachel to ask any real questions or provide evidence to support her emotive BS. She is using the skeptics to help police fill holes in their fictional account of 7/7 which frames a bunch of innocent guys from Leeds. There is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER they were even in London on 7/7 regardless of whatever emotion or insult Rachel uses to shroud the truth.
How much you getting paid to troll the Internet everyday lying to everyone Rachel? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to write these lengthy replies at all times of the day. Wouldn't be suprised if your IP traces back to GCHQ
alwun wrote:
Rachel(rachel smachel), it's your tone of voice that is the giveaway. You also seem to think that having been involved directly in the events of the day(were you really?) confers upon you some special status and insight, but all it seems to have done is open the floodgates of hysteria. I would recommend that you stay off line for a year or two and cease taking up space on the few sites where sensible folks are beginning to communicate about the real terror of the ongoing situation that Brits are facing today. ?..
chavez wrote:
It should be clear from Rachel's disinfo tactics she's part of the same lying media and police who set up this scam.
Bet it ain't even female.
THAT was why I deleted all my posts: because of the pointless stupid abuse on that forum. And I went there in the first place because people had left messages telling me about it on my blog.
I then engaged with the 9/11 forum - or tried to. Here's my forst post...
Quote: | Thanks, on that basis I am willing to engage. Please refrain from personal insults. | ( rachel)
I then got this sort of thing, having introduced myself politely...
Quote: | Whether Rachel wittingly or un-wittingly co-operates in what is a racist media is her choice.
I for one was appalled | ( prole)
Quote: | If anyone can prove Rachel is a spook etc, let's see some hard evidence otherwise let's avoid personal attacks based on 'suspicions' and keep the discourse focussed on issues and evidence and respect people's right to disagree. If Rachel's testimony or evidence clashes with other accounts or evidence then it is entirely reasonable to address this (that is focussing on the evidence) but it is quite a leap to then assume she must therefore be a spook. | ( Ian Neal)
Quote: | Do you not think to check any of the logic or facts that should underly your writings all over the Internet? | ( Antagonist)
Quote: | Kindly refrain from the Use and Abuse of Terror and The construction of a false narrative on the domestic terror threat. It's bad enough that the Prime Minister, state and media are guilty of this on a daily basis without having the same nonsense regurgitated ad nauseam by one of its subjects | ( Antagonist)
Quote: | And if you mates hadn't destroyed Cox's forum on two occassions then I would be able to quote the many times you used racist language like Islamofascist against those patsy's from Leeds. | ( ally)
Quote: | Easy now
Agreed. Unless posters can prove or provide credible evidence to support such suspicions, they are IMO best left unsaid | ( gee, thanks for that rather underwhelming support, Ian Neal)
Quote: | You've changed your story more times than the Met Police. | ( ally)
And that, chaps, is just the first three pages. I can't be arsed to pull out more of this stuff. But it's there, and you can read it all.
I came on a thread about me and what I believe - to clarify who I am and what I believe. I gave evidence and engaged in debate on the boards, quite politely: you can see how it was something of a trying experience and the severe provocation I had from some - not all - some posters.
I then came back on this board yesterday for one purpose - to stop one of the posters, who had abused me in the past and called me a hacker amongst other things, from posting a load of misleading garbage about my forthcoming book on PTSD.
I am provably, demonstrably who I say I am . Not a spook, not a hacker, not a shill, not a liar. There is no excuse for these insults, none at all.
As I have found out what happens when I try and talk to people here as evidenced by the thread, and the Alex Cox thread, I am quite happy not to bother anymore. I think I have been pretty patient, all things considered.
Thank you Ian for moderating people's posts, or at least trying to. However, even you don't actually seem to take who I am in good faith - you keep going on about 'proof' that I am an M15 asset - so I'm afraid I am off now, I've put you straight about the book, and I cannot see any point in me - or any other survivor, for that matter, if they ask me, or read this - bothering to come here - based on what has happened here before, which I have just demontrated by refreshing your memory of the thread concerned.
Shame, as we might have had some common ground.
However, I like to go with what my own experience and the facts tell me - and they tell me in this case, that there is little point hanging about here. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ian neal Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 3140 Location: UK
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As far as I'm concerned I have not seen any evidence that would lead me to think you are anything other than who you say you are, Rachel. Period.
We don't know each other other than through our exchanges in cyber space and the briefest of encounters at the London meeting that you attended (I left before your exchange with David Shayler), so my opinion is based on limited knowledge and therefore my endorsement of your genuineness can be no more than what I say above.
That said you can be sure that I am working on the presumption that you are genuine. Indeed I assume everyone is genuine unless given very strong evidence to think other wise.
Thanks and bye for now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Watcher Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 200
|
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | If your friends were killed and injured by a drunk driver, and then 6 months later, you found a bunch of people on an internet board stating there was no car crash, instead your friends were bumped off by M15 and the drunk driver was innocent, I expect you would be angry at the time. |
I have spent the evening putting this logic to the test and out of all the people questioned, everyone said they'd just want to know the truth.
The Watcher |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Micpsi Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 505
|
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rachel, you said: "That bloke in the pic is from the Piccadilly line explosion. Rescued by a member of the LU Emergency response team, I think, and on route to (I think it was), British Transport Police building. I'm not 100% because I haven't met him personally but it ties in with what the station manager mentioned to me a while back. Note his grey face and dirty white shirt from the tunnel dust and smoke. Not sure what Daniel is on about re. agents, but its a novel he 's writing I think, not fact. "
Sorry, but this is inconsistent with what Daniel states on his website http://www.the4thbomb.com/index.html: "... while he lay rolling about in agony on the pavement 45 metres ahead of the bus wailing loudly without a speck of victims blood on him." Daniel has made the point both in his website and in his interview with Alex Jones that the man was not only too far away from the bus to have been injured by the explosion but was situated in front of it, whereas the bomb exploded towards its back. So he could hardly have been caught up in a second bomb attack and been injured by it! Yet this is how he reacted to it, according to Daniel, and how you interpreted the photo.
Your explanation simply does not wash, although you admit you are uncertain about it. It would of course explain why the man had a bandage around his head before paramedics and others arrived on the scene. But why would he have been "rolling about in agony 45 metres ahead of the bus" if he had - according to Daniel - been too far away and on the wrong side of the bomb blast? According to Daniel's interview, he passed the man on the ground as he ran away from the bus. There could not have been any LU Emergency response team members assisting him at the time from the Piccadilly Line explosion, as you interpret the photo to show, or else Daniel would have noticed them and would not have become suspicious about finding a man on his own, wearing a bandage within one minute of the explosion and before any professional assistance had arrived! Why would Daniel lie about that, given that he was on the bus that day?
I think therefore you need to compare notes with Daniel. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Prole Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
|
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
A couple of newsreel clips which show bandage man complete with LU staff:
http://atvs.vg.no/player/index.php?id=1495
3/4 of the way through is an extended version of the 'bandage man' scene and shows about 10 seconds of him walking down the street.
and here:
http://atvs.vg.no/player/index.php?id=1496
_________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ZUCO Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 179 Location: Manchester
|
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All eye-witness testimony is unreliable. I vaguely remember writing an essay about it in college. The brain remembers what it can and the "constructive memory" fills in the blanks. As we are unable to determine what is real and what is "constructed" then ALL of the testimony must come under scrutiny. _________________
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" --Benjamin Franklin--
ZUCO |
|
Back to top |
|
|
illeagalhunter Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 106
|
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I heard this guy on Infowars ,his story makes you think it was false flag terror.Who wa sthe guy with the blanket round his sholders. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|