Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: How about some evidence for a change?
I think it has been proved beyond a doubt that the NPT is complete lie. So will the new forum guidelines be putting a blanket ban on NPT? If the answer to this is no then it speaks volumes about this place. It also explains why the Half Baked Bean Weapon is aloud to be propagated here.
I spoke to a very good friend of mine from America last night and she stated that several of her friends from NY saw and heard low fly aircraft and some even witnessed the impacts on 911. So I am 100% sure that it is a fact that aircraft hit the twin towers.
Another issue that is a stumbling block to many is the molten metal seen dripping from the south tower seconds before collapse. The NIST report does not account for temperatures high enough to melt steel but does for aluminum. The problem is that aluminum differs from other metals in that it doesn't glow when hot as other metals do. So when we see glowing molten metal dripping from the south tower there is much doubt as to it origins and composition.
Here's the video footage of the molten metal dripping from the south tower:
Steven Jones has done many experiments which suggest that the metal must have been molten iron. Thermite is a mixture of fine iron oxide particles and aluminum particles. When thermite is ignited
it casues an exothermic reaction which produces very high temporatures hot enough to melt through steel. Jones explains that the two by products of a thermite reaction are molten iron and aluminum oxide (which is seen as a white powder/dust rising from the reaction).
The agrument against Jones theory, which proposes the use of thermite, comes from Judy Wood. Judy Wood's theory revolves around the idea of high powered energy beams being used to vapourize the twin towers. The location of this “Beam Weapon” on the morning of 911 is unknown although it has been suggested that it is in orbit around the earth.
Woods has done research in an attempt to discredit Jones thermite theory. One angle that Woods takes is to try and prove that the molten metal seen dripping from the south tower was indeed aluminum and not molten iron from a thermite reaction.
Here's statement from an uknown indervidel which I'm sure can be confirmed we a bit of research:
Evan wrote:
To the various statements about color temperature vs radiation frequency, that assumes black body radiation. It changes if the object isn't a black body. Molten iron radiates intensely in the visible spectrum but molten aluminum does not. Molten aluminum has a highly reflective surface with about 92% reflectivity if clean. According to QED that surface is both externally reflective and internally reflective. This accounts for the fact that molten aluminum at a smelter does not appear to glow under normal shop lighting even though it is hot enough to glow red. It actually does glow red but only very dimly since most of the radiation is reflected internally.
There is actually a calculated index of refraction for molten metals even if they are not transparent to visible radiation. Aluminum has about the same index as water so at the critical angle total internal reflection occurs. This further reduces the amount of radiation.
Here's a quote from a brochure for non-contact temperature measurement equipment of aluminum (page 2).
Quote:
Aluminum is one of the most used metals after steel in the industry. Due to different surface conditions the emissivity is differing a lot which constitutes in one of the major problems of non-contact temperature measurement of aluminum. The emissivity of pure, shiny, polished aluminum for example is so low for the complete infrared spectrum, that the temperature with standard pyrometers can’t be measured exactly.
The color of molten metals is more dependent on the temperature they are heated to than the actual metal. For example, although aluminum is silvery and molten when heated to 600 deg C, when Iron is still solid, both Iron and aluminum glow reddish-orange at temperatures of around 1400C.
Here's what Jones said in one of his papers (bottom of page 7):
Steven Jones wrote:
Note that the approximate temperature of a hot metal is given by its color, quite independent of the composition of the metal. (A notable exception is falling liquid aluminum, which due to low emissivity and high reflectivity appears silvery-gray in daylight conditions, after falling through air 1-2 meters, regardless of the temperature at which the poured-out aluminum left the vessel.
Aluminum does incandesce (glow) like other metals, but faintly, so that with the conditions described in the previous sentence (which prevailed at the WTC on 9/11), falling liquid aluminum will appear silvery-gray. Rapid oxidation of the hot flowing aluminum will contribute to the observed appearance.
Here Jone's reply at an attempt by Reynolds and Wood's at discrediting him with regards to molten aluminum (Page 6):
Quote:
Glowing aluminum R&W write: “We have no explanation for why Jones would insist, contrary to evidence outside BYU, that flowing aluminum does not glow at high temperatures in daylight conditions.”
Now read what I wrote in my paper, and which R&W quote actually, see if you find what I am really saying:
Jones paper: “A notable exception is falling liquid aluminum, which due to low emissivity and high reflectivity appears silvery-gray in daylight conditions, after falling through air one to two meters, regardless of the temperature at which the poured-out aluminum left the vessel. Aluminum does incandesce [glow] like other metals, but faintly so that the conditions in the previous sentence, falling liquid aluminum will appear silvery-gray
according to experiments at BYU [Jones references himself {as is standard in science, to reference a separate paper written with others, to give the reader much more detail.]). "Can you see it there? Look again – that’s what I said. Aluminum DOES GLOW, faintly. And I provide photos and experiments we did ourselves, showing that falling, poured-out aluminum appears silvery in daylight conditions, even though it is indeed glowing faintly. That is because its reflectivity far exceeds its emissivity. Inside a shadowed environment, with molten aluminum stationary, I – we – saw a beautiful pinkish glow from the aluminum. Then we poured it out – and the stream was silvery!
Look, I’m not tricking anyone – please, Judy, pour out the liquid aluminum in the air in daylight, and THEN tell me what it looks like! (Not sitting next to tungsten which also has low emissivity, as in your previous experiments.) The difference lies in matching the WTC conditions – POURED OUT, flowing, falling aluminum far from the container will indeed appear silvery, every time. Try it. You’ll see.
Judy Wood and her student Michael Zebuhr had set up a demonstration showing that aluminium can glow orange if heated to approximately the same temperature as molten iron.
The problem with Andrews statement is that there is no evidence for temperatures hot enough to melt steel. Even the NIST report which many are suspicious of dies not account for temperatures hot enough to melt steel!
The NIST Report wrote:
(respones to questions 7a and 7b)
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires.
So to conclude if the metal seen dripping from the south tower seconds before collapse was indeed iron/steel then the NIST report can not explain the temperatures needed to melt iron/steel! What else could explain the existence of molten iron dripping from the south tower? The byproduct of a thermite reaction perhaps? Why was thermite used? Because it minimizes the audibly booms associated with explosions.
Was the whole building rigged? No as you would only need to weaken several floor to initiate a cascading collapse due to the extreme mass and the associated kinetic energy that would be released. To facilitate the complete failure of several floors it seem likely that the thermite could be placed inside columns. The thermite dust/particles could be pumped into columns and radio controlled ignition devices inserted. NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf mentions access to the core columns via elevator shafts on page 181. (takes a few seconds to download) http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf
We also have evidence and eyewitness reports that the south tower had extensive and unprecedented work done to the upper floors only a couple of days prior to 911.
Other things to consider:
The date for the FEMA terror drills could have been leaked. Terrorists would see the FEMA terror drill as a good smoke screen for some kind of attack. The CIA may have discovered the plot giving the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) a window of opportunity. The simple question was do we wait for an event such as this to be successful or do we take this opportunity to tailor and control events?
We have reports that the CIA we're providing OBL with private medical care only days before the attacks of 911! Perhaps they were making sure that their escape goat was well enough to play his part in radicalizing Muslims to keep the momentum going? OBL was also used as an excuse to invade Afghanistan and we note since then drug production has increased four fold.
OK I get it evidence is now controversial! I wonder which bit of my post was seen as controversial?
Was it saying that NPT is a lie?
Was it moved for suggesting Beam Weapon Theory might be a stumbling block to some people?
Perhaps it's was something to do with Steven Jones?
Could it have been because I pointed out Andrew's little error and backed up my assertions with evidence rather than mere speculation?
I know it must have been all my typos! _________________ We check the evidence and then archive it: www.911evidencebase.co.uk Get the Steven E Jones reports>HERE<
Patrick Brown !!!!
I'm shocked. Shocked and, frankly, disappointed in you.
You have the bare-faced effrontery to post 9/11 evidence and request 9/11 evidence on the General Forum of a 9/11 board and expect it not to get swept off into the ghetto realms???
What were you thinking man???
The 9/11 General Forum is for discussion of skin-burrowing alien parasites and the kundalinical healing power of Cerebos salt. Surely you'd noticed? _________________ So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car
Patrick Brown !!!!
I'm shocked. Shocked and, frankly, disappointed in you.
You have the bare-faced effrontery to post 9/11 evidence and request 9/11 evidence on the General Forum of a 9/11 board and expect it not to get swept off into the ghetto realms???
What were you thinking man???
The 9/11 General Forum is for discussion of skin-burrowing alien parasites and the kundalinical healing power of Cerebos salt. Surely you'd noticed?
after pinching myself 10 times and taking a rather a large vodka are you saying you agree with patrick? as in 9/11 didnt happen how we was told?
Patrick Brown !!!!
I'm shocked. Shocked and, frankly, disappointed in you.
You have the bare-faced effrontery to post 9/11 evidence and request 9/11 evidence on the General Forum of a 9/11 board and expect it not to get swept off into the ghetto realms???
What were you thinking man???
The 9/11 General Forum is for discussion of skin-burrowing alien parasites and the kundalinical healing power of Cerebos salt. Surely you'd noticed?
after pinching myself 10 times and taking a rather a large vodka are you saying you agree with patrick? as in 9/11 didnt happen how we was told?
Pass the vodka and I'll explain it ..... <cheers>
No, I'm just sympathetic with PB over the way his post got marginalised because of (I imagine) his disputes with the PTB here, whereas all manner of mind-boggling dribble is cheerfully tolerated over in the General Forum. _________________ So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car
Patrick Brown !!!!
I'm shocked. Shocked and, frankly, disappointed in you.
You have the bare-faced effrontery to post 9/11 evidence and request 9/11 evidence on the General Forum of a 9/11 board and expect it not to get swept off into the ghetto realms???
What were you thinking man???
The 9/11 General Forum is for discussion of skin-burrowing alien parasites and the kundalinical healing power of Cerebos salt. Surely you'd noticed?
after pinching myself 10 times and taking a rather a large vodka are you saying you agree with patrick? as in 9/11 didnt happen how we was told?
Pass the vodka and I'll explain it ..... <cheers>
No, I'm just sympathetic with PB over the way his post got marginalised because of (I imagine) his disputes with the PTB here, whereas all manner of mind-boggling dribble is cheerfully tolerated over in the General Forum.
i thought it was something like that, i was just pulling your leg. and checking just in case
I see absolutely no reason other than personal discrimination for this thread to be moved to conspiracies. I think a mistake should be admitted, and the thread re-instated in its proper place. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
I did get a PM from John giving me his point of view. I may not agree with him but I suppose I can always repost this to the general forum with a few changes. I will be leaving in Andrews comment as I think he needs to explain the relevance of heating Aluminum to the temperature at which steel melts. As I pointed out in my post above even the NIST report says temperatures didn't get anywhere near hot enough to melt steel.
I think discussing the molten metal seen dripping from the south tower should be encouraged as it's a major piece of evidence. I'm not suggesting it proves the use of thermite but it certainly needs to be explained and comments like Andrew's do nothing but muddy the waters. Andrew's recent filibuster of a post (see here: http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=7006 ) needs to be questioned piece by piece. As an Administrator here Andrew seems to be forcing his views on members and if they go unchallenged this site will essentially become a dictatorship. I hope people do challenge the views that Andrew shares in his article otherwise this forum may become tainted by the opinions of just one man.
Let me explain how the 911 con-man works:
They play on the fears and concerns of an individual or group and then get them to cough up some cash, do their bidding and promote their views. They reassure you that you've understood the conspiracy and you know what's at stake. They try and convince you that they have secret knowledge and know what's really going on. They work on you until you become dependent on them and a slave to their fantasy. _________________ We check the evidence and then archive it: www.911evidencebase.co.uk Get the Steven E Jones reports>HERE<
Shouldn't this insight have been moved to critic's corner.?
.....The date for the FEMA terror drills could have been leaked. Terrorists would see the FEMA terror drill as a good smoke screen for some kind of attack. The CIA may have discovered the plot giving the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) a window of opportunity. The simple question was do we wait for an event such as this to be successful or do we take this opportunity to tailor and control events?
We have reports that the CIA we're providing OBL with private medical care only days before the attacks of 911! Perhaps they were making sure that their escape goat was well enough to play his part in radicalizing Muslims to keep the momentum going? OBL was also used as an excuse to invade Afghanistan and we note since then drug production has increased four fold. ........
Read a good forgery...
Thousands of jews didn't turn up for work......WR
The dancers knew the time of the show.
A few links and quotes with sources might help you're case. I'm not ruling out Jewish/Zionist involvement as I'm sure they run the MIC.
I've no problem with you submitting some evidence over at my forum but it needs to be pretty solid to get into the archives. _________________ We check the evidence and then archive it: www.911evidencebase.co.uk Get the Steven E Jones reports>HERE<
Why don't you go + listen to WR + ask for confirmation.....doh....
So does WR believe Jews/Zionist were involved? _________________ We check the evidence and then archive it: www.911evidencebase.co.uk Get the Steven E Jones reports>HERE<
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after pinching myself 10 times and taking a rather a large vodka are you saying you agree with patrick? as in 9/11 didnt happen how we was told?