Does Alex Jones warp his editorial line to appease Zionists?

[alexsandie]

I've always had this suspicion that most people don't click on links posted and that the only way to get people to read stuff is to post it in full. So I'm copying something of Dunne's re the CIA fakes directly here. Maybe you will read this. I'm renaming this piece:

Deal with it!

by Fintan Dunne, Editor,
BreakForNews.com 4th August, 2005
with PsyOpNews.com & WagNews.blogspot.com

For the last three years we have been quietly investigating the cover-up of the 9/11 attacks. Ours has been a wide-ranging inquiry which paid special attention to those who claim to be already exposing the truth.

During this time we have interviewed many people with alternative views on who were the real perpetrators. All the while, we kept our own counsel. Much of the time we played it as if we were uncritically buying the lines being put out on various alternative media.

We have examined a great deal of evidence and methodically traced the methods and networks used to mislead us all. Now we present the first of our findings.

NO ROGUE GROUP

We published 'Wag The WTC' investigative articles on the 9/11 attacks --just 7 and 14 days after the event. We knew then, as did many others, that the real planners were not 'Al-Qaida'. That's the easy part. The challenge was to actually determine -rather than merely guess: who did carry out the attacks?

In uncovering those perpetrators, we felt that an investigation of the cover-up would be as much --if not more-- revealing than our examination of the attacks themselves.

Our analysis of the cover-up shows it requires, and has used, the official intelligence resources of more that one state. One of the ways of deflecting investigators from this grim reality has been to spin the facts to allege that a 'rogue group' within government carried out the attacks.

But we now state that the depth and multinational scope of the cover-up shows no mere rogue group was involved. The 9/11 attacks and cover-up have covert governmental support -deployed through an intelligence framework.

What will be the most startling aspect of our investigation for many people is the vast scale of governmental control of the 9/11 movement and alternative investigators and media. From websites to commentators; from analysts to political personages, this has given the cover-up team unprecedented control of alternative media perceptions.

In short, the government is running not only the 9/11 movement, but also controlling the 9/11 issue in the alternative media. It was relatively easy to do so, because they have controlled both mainstream and alternative media and politics increasingly over the last twenty years. This was just an extension of those operations.

INTERNET POLICE

Here's a quote from a recent article on the UK Guardian: "The Chinese government, employs an estimated 30,000 internet police, as part of a long-standing policy to control the web so that it can be used by businesses but not by political opponents." [Source]

Think the ideology and practice of the USA would be any different? Of course not. Just well cloaked under a veneer of free expression.

In the US, it's less a case of internet 'police' and more a question of Internet fake opposition, misdirection websites, front organizations, pseudo-activist groups and a host of professional blogging and web journalism liars, acting in concert to create an impenetrable fog.

These people are all over the Internet They are all over the 9/11 issue; all over the 'stolen' election of 2004; behind the psychological operations designed to inspire fear of earth changes, of global warming, of the Super-State and the so-called New World Order; all over the landscape of anti-corporate, anti-fascist expression on the Internet.

This army of information controllers is all over the 'free' information you are getting on the Internet. Time we opened our eyes to see them. It's not just the mainstream which is controlled. From the moment the Internet became prominent, a vast budget has been expended to control all the high-trafficked intersections on the information superhighway.

THE FAKE 'EXPOSING' OF 9/11

Many of these sites/assets were put in place long before 9/11. A key goal was to ensure that if some truth must come out, it will be a truth designed and controlled by intelligence agencies --with agency assets in a position to ensure misdirection and damage limitation.

To this end, an orgy of evidence [See Minority Report Part I] in the form of deliberately misleading 9/11 'clues', were designed into the 9/11 operation from the start --to give these assets prearranged talking points with which to fill their column inches and programming. This has served to confuse and confound.

All this activity rose to a crescendo around the time the Kerry presidential bid hit it's planned implosion in the 'stolen' election. [The stealing of which was carefully managed in the controlled alternative media as a psychological operation against the left.]

The hyping of the 9/11 issue up until the 'defeat' of Kerry was designed to max out activist interest in the issue, then bury it with the aid of general post-Kerry, left-wing political disillusion -against the backdrop of division in the 9/11 Movement itself.

Also part of a similar confounding exercise were the subsequent 9/11 Movement 'flame wars', as different assets attacked each other to undermine their collective credibility and disillusion ordinary grassroots 9/11 truth activists.

THE SMOKESCREEN

A persistent theme of the disinformation spread by these assets is to portray the machinations of this elite group acting through the CIA/NSA/ETC. as if they originate from somewhere other than the US security/intelligence apparatus.

Suspicion is directed instead onto the Israelis, the 'City of London', 'International Bankers', The Rockefellers, The Bildebergers, and most infamously, the ill-defined, so-called New World Order. Of course, some of these elements are complicit in certain events, but the aim is to downplay the U.S. establishment's guiding hand and the broad CFR/corporate support.

Some may be surprised by the range and scope of the misinformation sites we have detailed, and may even be disconsolate to see the sheer scale of the social and political control which their virtually unlimited budget can achieve.

All we can say is.... deal with it. We had to. It's better than us all flailing around in ignorance. And it explains why men and women of good heart have been getting nowhere.

Also:

[Snowygrouch]

Anyone getting that NFB type smell??

[uselesseater]

Fintan's attempted debunking of the 7/7/ drill is based on obfuscation, flawed logic and fools only those with a grasp of neither.

Assuming such a drill took place, regardless of who was involved 1000 or
1, probability dictated incredibly strongly that there must be a link between the drill and the events. It is so improbable that there is not a link between the drill and the real event that it may as well be beyond probability.

[rodin]

We are all going to have to question everybody and everything. Fintan is right about that. But he is not immune to questioning either.

Who here thinks the 5 dancing Israelis is not a HUGE piece of hard evidence? If not, why not. I want to know.

Evidence. That's what a case is built on. We need to get a list of hard-tested evidence. Tested to destruction. Personalities we can discount - use useful links from anyone, but forget any persuasion. Become immune to it. Follow your own analysis of everything, best you can.

We don't KNOW that Visor was working for Verint, for example. We can DEDUCE it. We do KNOW that he went on air and said what he did - exact same times/stations/simultaneous bombs was his first story.

Later he changed his story (correct me if I am wrong) to include mainline stations. Anyone got a transcript of the interviews versus timeline he did on 7/7? When did he first mention mainline? I know he was quoted after 7/7 but did he give any live on air interviews after 7/7?

Verint did not control mainline so it cant be them, right? My guess is he got a call...

Power may well be deep MI whatever, but he may also have twigged that the UK is under threat from a criminal conspiracy and decided it was time to do something about it. The hairs were standing up on the back of his neck... which is now on the line. If he wants to keep it now he must play along.

Tube line. Security. Exercise. Over a thousand employees. Precisely.

The other evidence from 7/7 that is ON RECORD is the FAKING of witness statements from an impossible train. Just about everything else is conjecture and probablity (like how come one bus was diverted to Tavistock to be blown up?) but they can wriggle out of that in a crooked court. Witness statements about bombs under carriages can be attacked in court.

But faked witness statements?

[alexsandie]

snouchygrouch

[Snowygrouch]

Yes that is my problem; nonsense pisses me off.

I do mean notes, the general "everyone is CIA except me" thing seems to be fairly parrallell.

[Leiff]

[Bongo]

Oh Dear Fintan... you spend an eternity gathering pics of people meeting each other then you put a little 'comic style' caption underneath suggesting a 'conspiracy' being plotted right in front of your eyes.

I guess since everyone in the world has met everyone else through freinds of freinds of freinds etc... you are suggesting a conspiracy involving 6 Billion' odd humans on this planet? I cant wait for your installment which involves my sinister involvement

[FintanDunne]

[Fallious]

And the evidence....?

[paul wright]

Yes, for the first time I agree with you a little on this,Fintan, though I still find the obsessive list of accusations and implications a bit absurd and is of course actually much longer than the one you give here. In fact I was a little surprised to find on one list the late Joe Vialls who agreed with you on what if I remember rightly was the springboard for your CIA accusations - the sham Saddam thing.
No - you're right that the divisions and divisiveness is being fuelled. However I find that many of the sources and issues you identify have offered and still offer valuable information.
The way I look at it is that you pick and choose your information in the way that fits your intuition about and perception of things, don't adhere to any lines or be loyal to this or that person, celebrity after all - yuck - even underground celebrities - even yourself.
And then you go ahead and do what you have to -without worrying about this or that guy has bought or is promoting a CIA line

[Micpsi]

Fintan Dunne's list of so-called "CIA fakes" was just an advertising ploy to make himself stick out amongst internet 9/11 researchers. It was designed to create a bogus niche that would attract a new breed of 9/11 truthers ("the next level") by pandering to their need to feel superior to their fellow truthers by having some special insight or deeper knowledge about 9/11 and about some of the well-known names in the 9/11 truth movement. The same superior-than-thou arrogance is often displayed in the comments of regular visitors to his forum. Only the ploy backfired, as his infamous list was widely seen and dismissed by his peers as a vacuous accusation made without one iota of objective evidence to support it and therefore as a childish fit of professional jealousy from someone who was not becoming as well-known as they were. He even painted with the same ludicrous brush Alex Merklinger, the well-respected, former "Mysteries of the Mind" talk-show host, with whom he had worked. By becoming notorious over such backstabbing and by showing that he was willing to create division in the 9/11 truth movement with baseless accusations, he lost all intellectual credibility amongst his peers, although of course he would merely say that he had exposed them. LOL! Yeah, pull the other one, Mr Dunne, with your fake accusations.

His specious, convoluted explanations of why he put so many well-known people on this list - in particular, his ad hoc interpretations of Alex Jones' words - amount to delusional fantasy fuelled by wanting to discredit people he sees as competitors. They should not dupe anyone here into supposing that they display some unique, superior insight. The truth of the matter is that he is no more certain of who in the 9/11 truth movement is a CIA-planted disinformationist than anyone else. In reality, his criterion for someone being a "CIA fake" amounts merely to whether or not he agrees with their views. That's why the word "fake" slips off his lips so easily. Rather juvenile, really.

[flamesong]

[rodin]

I'll say it again. Forget the people. You will never know who's in and who's out. Collect the evidence - the stuff that can be proved. Don't jump on the latest 'revelation' - like this Obachike guy. Put it to one side, to be tested. Witness statements are notoriously poor quality evidence anyway. Evidence is what you can PROVE - or someone can prove to you is true - not what somebody tells you.

Never believe without proof positive.

Never believe a witness testimony. Use it as corroborating evidence, but get the dabs first.

If you/we follow these rules so much chaff will be blown away. What is left will be clear as day.

[Bongo]

Micpsi...

[alexsandie]

In the end, we have to use our own analytical skills. There are certain aspects of Fintan Dunne that haven't been fully explained (and I don't mean the ridiculous questions about whether he is Irish or not! or why he mentioned about having a foreskin! isn't that bleedin obvious why that subject came up?!?!!)

The bottom line is, you study his evidence. Just as I expect people to study my evidence re Dunblane. Still, I have had my own doubts about Dunne. I listened to Kathy McMahon interviewing him and she asked him if he was jealous of Alex Jones. He didn't answer the question and she didn't pursue it. But as I had already decided that Alex Jones was a total nutcase, I decided that Dunne didn't answer the question because he thought it wasn't worth responding to. How could any rational thinking person be jealous of Alex Jones?!?!!

But Fintan Dunne might have another explanation or might simply think it is not worth responding to. Just like I don't care to respond to the likes of Bongo who suggests that I am either suffering from PMT or not getting any sex. It is just too pathetic to respond to.

Also, as there are clear signs now that AJ uses the same methods as Scientology to bring people into the 'fold' - which is a CULT - who, in their right mind, would trust Alex Jones?

Finally, Alex Jones is a money-making business. He takes your credit card details and once he's hooked you in, he keeps on taking your money (go on, examine your credit card debits - is AJ still taking your money?) When someone I know cancelled the credit card that AJ was using for their subscription, because AJ wasn't giving any notification that he was about to take their money, AJ plc wrote to them - only time AJ plc ever wrote to them - saying that they hadn't managed to get their sub. AJ is totally about money and control.

Believe me, this is even worse than disinfo. Not only have strenuous efforts been made to make sure that the truth about 9/11 doesn't come out, the 9/11 truth industry is a financial scam. Part of 'the plan' of 9/11 was to recoup money.

"Cottage industry" sounds just a little bit too genteel.

edited for typing mistakes!

[kbo234]

The kind of hyper-diddly paranoid twaddle on this thread seems to me to be designed to make us look like a bunch of nutters to any casual visitor to this site. The fact that some posters are debating this rubbish 'sensibly' frankly baffles me.

Ignore this c**p.

Keep taking 9/11 truth out to people wherever you go.

Stick to the simple unchallengeable issues (WTC7, controlled demolition of 1, 2 and 7 are the killer issues IMO).

The point is that it was an inside job....not what kind of inside job it was.

Anyone who wants to divide us with far flung theories is, knowingly or not, working against us while they do so. Sure, this forum is a place for some debating of such theories but the nonsense is completely taking over.

Our opponents, who work for the intelligence services and wish the keep 9/11 info under wraps know they are losing the game in the public domain. The message is getting out and spreading exponentially. Currently, we are doing well. Even when the BBC2 conspiracy files does a job on us next sunday....do not be downhearted....this is progress. they wouldn't be attacking us unless they felt they had to. This programme is legitimising 9/11 as a subject for debate in the public arena....whatever they say.

The security services are certainly attacking this site. There can be no doubt about this. They have stopped using the extremely aggressive evidence benders like Jay Ref and his mates (because we have moved them to the 'Critic's Corner). Now the tactic seems to have become....to deluge every thread with lame-brained random sloppy floppy wildly paranoid barely relevant dribbling rubbish. I am not attacking every poster as I have been accused of going off-topic myself at times but there is so much of this stuff here now that we need to start ignoring rubbish (which, of course, I am not doing now) and, as was said so often before, stop feeding the trolls.

Of course the big problem for the moderators in dealing with this tactic is that the people who attack this site can do so in groups, feeding each other with oblique masturbatory pass-the parcel wobbledygook....and it is rather difficult to tell who is doing it on purpose.

[FintanDunne]

[Bongo]

[FintanDunne]

[Bongo]

Fintan, With respect to air defence spending, and which USAF fighter aircraft could have intercepted, IMO is a question for a new investigation.
(since the 9/11 commission report failed to adequately answer the issue.)

In any event, SCATANA regulations were, before and during 9/11, and still are in full force... the only difference was that for the first time in Us history, the president was not in control of US air defence, Dick Cheney was!

Fact?

I think you need a rest from all the speculation you are doing!

[Bonko]

[alexsandie]

On one Alex Jones interview (with Jeff Rense I think) a guy called in to ask why it was men over a certain age (about 50 I think he said) who had bought into this whole 'we are doomed' conspiracy stuff. Whether this caller believed we hadn't been told the truth about 9/11 I don't know. But I was interested in his question and I was curious as to how Jones and Rense would tackle the subject. But you guessed it. Jones simply cut him off.

Now that made me wonder if perhaps the "CIA fakes" who were waiting in the wings knew who their 'target market' was going to be, ie. men over a certain age (probably over 40s I would say - and I'm referring to the States; I'm not sure that the Brits were factored into the 9/11 Truth Movement at the outset). The younger guys would probably either ignore the subject (the demands of youth preoccupying them) or 'sign up' to go to war. So what to do about the older guys???? What a fantastic script they came up with. Paralyse you with fear, and befuddle your mind. To repeat what Bonko said earlier in this thread:

[scar]

[alexsandie]

You missed out this bit:

[scar]

[uselesseater]

This summs the quality of Dunnes analysis and that of his cheerleaders:

But then I got to thinking, as you do, and wondering why they were being
so in your face with this controlled demolition issue. They could surely have
picked some other company. Or left them out of it until later. But they
were on the scene from the get go. It was so inviting. Too predictable.
But what could the motive be?

This is exactly the kind of flaky rubbish that the media likes to portray as the stuff of 9/11 conspiracy loons. Completely paranoid and lacking in any form of critical analysis. Seems like Dunne couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.

And the evidence for AJ being CIA? He cut somone off when they asked a banal question on his radio show and he takes subscriptions! Shock. Conclusive proof there then.

He takes your credit card details and once he's hooked you in, he keeps on taking your money (go on, examine your credit card debits - is AJ still taking your money?)

Yes it's called subscribing.

I would go along with whoever said that these attempts are just another angle of attack from the same place as the Jay Reffers and before you say anything that is a Judgement, not a statement of fact - could be wrong. In Fintan Dunnes world however this would be considered proof beyond all doubt.

Mods: We need to get a handle on this stuff soon unless you're happy for us to look like the fruitcakes the media likes to paint us as. Use your discretion and bend the rules if necessary I say.

[Pikey]

FYI pms exchanged with alexsandie

[alexsandie]

Pikey's PM:

[Bonko]

Note: Arguments which rely on an individuals personality and attacking such persons, serve no purpose other than to take our attention away from what really matters.

Fintan has been investigating the activities of these Internet fakes since day one, he has posted volumes of material pinpointing the countless, I repeat, countless "coincidencidental" connections between these guys and the perps of 9/11. Keep in mind he has not once based any of his arguments on any personal dislikes of these individuals.

No need to get offended guys, this is just business folks, the buisiness of real investigation.

Don't let the personalities fool you, and don't let people waste your time drawing you into personal vendetas.

Notice how some of the posters here have painstakingly tried to avoid dealing with any of the substantive issues, and instead focused on attacking the personality.... Jeez, that musta been part of the curiculum huh guys??

While you guys keep feuling petty fueds, the evidence is stacked in our favour..... keep on diggin them holes