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johndoex
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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: Radar Altitude confirmation. Too high to hit poles/penatgon |
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Repost from Pilots For Truth Forums.
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=4801&s t=0
We have recently been able to decode the additional data 'slipped' into our package through the FOIA (Thanks UT!).
The main purpose of getting this data decoded was to confirm or contradict our initial altitude findings regarding True altitude as shown in the animation and original csv file which can be seen in Chapter Two.
The last recordings of radar altitude shown in the newly decoded .fdr file is as follows.
In the spirit of keeping this simple, we will use the argument side of the analysis prior to us getting the decode of the raw file.
Many of you have read our analysis regarding the altitude being too high based on True Altitude. However, the argument side says that there could be up to 2 seconds error and possible lag due to instrument error.
Quote as follows from a self-proclaimed anonymous internet FDR Expert.
| Quote: |
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However, A radar altimeter presents no lag. The 273 feet you see above is a hard number above the ground.
Now we will disregard when it was recorded and use the argument side that there could be 'up to' 2 seconds missing (ie. the 273' was recorded 2 seconds prior to the pentagon wall).
Backing the data out from the pentagon wall 2 seconds based on speed, the aircraft is at this location...
(again using the govt loyalist argument of the south flight path)
The ground elevation at this point is ~60 feet above sea level. Add that to 273 and you get 333 feet above sea level. (this figure does not match True altitude at this point because we are using the govt loyalist hypothetical that 273 was recorded 'up to' 2 seconds out from the pentagon.. we are using their argument of the largest margin for error).
The elevation of the 'hole' in the pentagon is 33 (ground elevation of pentagon, established) plus 12' (center of hole) = 45 feet above sea level.
When we subtract 333 from 45, we get a number of 288 feet above the 'impact hole' at a spot 2 seconds away from impact.
Divide 288 by 2(seconds) and this aircraft would need a steady linear descent rate of 8,640 feet per minute to impact the hole in the pentagon (remember, this is using the argument that 273 was recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact). This is in direct conflict with the DoD video showing an object level across the lawn.
Now, lets look at the light poles.
We will again use the govt loyalist argument that the height of the poles was 66(ground elevation, although the USGS shows 43) + 40 feet for pole height (liberal figure) = 106 feet.
Based on forward speed, the light poles were ~1 second from impact (its more like 1.3 for poles one and two, but we're giving the govt loyalists every chance possible here).
So, that being the case, if we were using the 273 AGL altitude as recorded by the radar altimeter 2 seconds from the pentagon wall, that would make the 273 agl recorded 1 second prior to the poles. The top of pole height was 106 feet above sea level. The "2 second recording" was 333 feet above sea level. Subtact the two and you get 227 feet this aircraft would have had to descend in order to hit the very top of pole 1 within one second(again, using liberal numbers for pole height... its actually more than 227).
To descend 227 feet in one second, this aircraft would need 13,620 feet per minute dive to clip the poles. And then level off from that dive to be level with the pentagon lawn.
To level off from that dive, the aircraft would need to pull (227/32 (ft/sec, accel due to gravity) =7+1G's (earths gravity) = 8 total G's for 1 second sustained to be level with the lawn.
There is no indication anywhere in ther FDR file showing this aircraft pulling 8 G's sustained during the last second, Matter of fact, it shows less than 1 G.. Not to mention, aircraft structural limitation would not let it get that high. IE. The wings would rip off and/or High speed buffet/stall.
Conclusion:
Using the govt loyalist own argument of 'up to' 2 seconds of error, we can see this aircraft was too high to hit the poles and the pentagon.
However, using the actual data that was recorded 1 second prior to the pentagon wall as provided directly from the NTSB (and not making excuses like there may be 'up to 2 seconds missing'), it is further in conflict with the govt story.
Cheers!
Rob
"If his true altitude is accurate, he may be on to something" - Anonymous Self-Proclaimed FDR Expert and Govt Loyalist.
(if you want to repost this whole article, pictures and all, hit the quote button and copy and past the quote to your new post in another forum. Spread it everywhere if you like).
Download Raw data here...
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=4574
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Ignatz
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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So please explain how all the missing passengers were matched to their DNA, gathered from body fragments collected in The Pentagon.
Wow, those CIA agents really must be devoted, giving up lumps of flesh and bone like that for the conspiracy. And getting their hair planted at the victims' homes, for the cross-match. And having to murder all those people and dispose of their bodies ... who did that? The same people who volunteered bits of flesh?
You really are slightly insane, johndoe. Seek help.
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marky 54
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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if the data is accurate and it seems it is going by what is said, then the questions you pose do need answering, but your asking the wrong people as it's those who said a plane crashed into the pentagon that need to answer them.
what else do you suggest? forget the findings and ignore them?
im confused that if it can be shown flight 77 didnt hit the pentagon how that makes johndoex insane? surely it raises serious questions about the offical version that says a plane did hit the pentagon. |
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: | if the data is accurate and it seems it is going by what is said, then the questions you pose do need answering, but your asking the wrong people as it's those who said a plane crashed into the pentagon that need to answer them.
what else do you suggest? forget the findings and ignore them?
im confused that if it can be shown flight 77 didnt hit the pentagon how that makes johndoex insane? surely it raises serious questions about the offical version that says a plane did hit the pentagon. |
What is insane is trusting the govt at their word. And that is exactly what ignatz seems to be doing. What is also insane is that if you trust the govt at their word, why do these people entertain and coverse with people on the net who they think are insane?
Bottom line, the information released by the govt does not match their fairy tale. Some people dont feel the need to question the govt. They are good little sheep. Others, such as patriots, will continue to try and get a straight answer from the govt, even if it means some criminal elements within the govt are convicted for their crimes.
The sheep want to look the other way..
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | So please explain how all the missing passengers were matched to their DNA, gathered from body fragments collected in The Pentagon.
Wow, those CIA agents really must be devoted, giving up lumps of flesh and bone like that for the conspiracy. And getting their hair planted at the victims' homes, for the cross-match. And having to murder all those people and dispose of their bodies ... who did that? The same people who volunteered bits of flesh?
You really are slightly insane, johndoe. Seek help. |
The Pilot's evidence looks really convincing. The hole on the Pentagon never matched the profile of a big Boeing. John Doexxx is entirely sane and you know it. Your question does need answering.
The answer must be that the DNA evidence was either faked or came from samples of victims possibly murdered in some other way. In the confusion body parts being collected at the Pentagon could have come from workers or passengers. Who would know if only workers limbs etc were recovered?
I am of the opinion that the planes were switched and that the remote control planes were specially prepared, not merely electronically hijacked. I doubt that normal flight software would allow the high-G turns observed. John Doexxx and Snowy can probably fill us in on that.
Are you ready to capitulate Ignatz? That 911 was at least an inside job? I think it has been proved beyond not just reasonable doubt but beyond any possible doubt.
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I would like to know who knocked down those lamposts and how.
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Ignatz
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: |
The answer must be that the DNA evidence was either faked or came from samples of victims possibly murdered in some other way. In the confusion body parts being collected at the Pentagon could have come from workers or passengers. Who would know if only workers limbs etc were recovered?
I am of the opinion that the planes were switched and that the remote control planes were specially prepared, not merely electronically hijacked. I doubt that normal flight software would allow the high-G turns observed. John Doexxx and Snowy can probably fill us in on that.
Are you ready to capitulate Ignatz? That 911 was at least an inside job? I think it has been proved beyond not just reasonable doubt but beyond any possible doubt. |
DNA matching worked like this :
1. Tissue samples were taken at the site of the incident.
2. Hair (probably) was sampled at the homes of the suspected victims.
3. 1+2 were cross-matched, to confirm the crash victims were those on the passenger list.
The only ways to "fake" DNA testing would be :
a. (as you say) kill the passengers in advance and plant their tissue samples in The Pentagon
b. to pre-sample tissue of people who were already lined up as accomplices, and present those samples to the labs at the same time as planting the hair of those accomplices in the homes of the (disappeared) victims, to make it look like the DNA matched.
c. coerce the lab technicians to produce totally fictitious results, while disappearing the poor souls who were on the flight, secretly scrapping the aircraft and all records of its landing elsewhere, plus stifling ATC records and operators, and ensuring that none of the operatives who did all this ever said one word.. Ever. Which probably means killing them too.
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | | rodin wrote: |
The answer must be that the DNA evidence was either faked or came from samples of victims possibly murdered in some other way. In the confusion body parts being collected at the Pentagon could have come from workers or passengers. Who would know if only workers limbs etc were recovered?
I am of the opinion that the planes were switched and that the remote control planes were specially prepared, not merely electronically hijacked. I doubt that normal flight software would allow the high-G turns observed. John Doexxx and Snowy can probably fill us in on that.
Are you ready to capitulate Ignatz? That 911 was at least an inside job? I think it has been proved beyond not just reasonable doubt but beyond any possible doubt. |
DNA matching worked like this :
1. Tissue samples were taken at the site of the incident.
2. Hair (probably) was sampled at the homes of the suspected victims.
3. 1+2 were cross-matched, to confirm the crash victims were those on the passenger list.
The only ways to "fake" DNA testing would be :
a. (as you say) kill the passengers in advance and plant their tissue samples in The Pentagon
b. to pre-sample tissue of people who were already lined up as accomplices, and present those samples to the labs at the same time as planting the hair of those accomplices in the homes of the (disappeared) victims, to make it look like the DNA matched.
c. coerce the lab technicians to produce totally fictitious results, while disappearing the poor souls who were on the flight, secretly scrapping the aircraft and all records of its landing elsewhere, plus stifling ATC records and operators, and ensuring that none of the operatives who did all this ever said one word.. Ever. Which probably means killing them too. |
What about kill the passengers and have their DNA samples added to the Pentagon ones? Or simply make it up? Who did the forensics?
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:59 am Post subject: |
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You gotta wonder what tasks those 200 Israeli spies were assigned to. We know 5 were making a hash of a frame-up.
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Also - too late for details - but there are issues with the passenger lists (low, suspiciously high military connectivity). Maybe deaths were faked. Whatever, the plane did not hit the Pentagon on the basis of the Pilot's evidence so we better think of something. BTW reports of 911 planes still flying after 911 surfaced.
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marky 54
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Ignatz"] | rodin wrote: |
The answer must be that the DNA evidence was either faked or came from samples of victims possibly murdered in some other way. In the confusion body parts being collected at the Pentagon could have come from workers or passengers. Who would know if only workers limbs etc were recovered?
I am of the opinion that the planes were switched and that the remote control planes were specially prepared, not merely electronically hijacked. I doubt that normal flight software would allow the high-G turns observed. John Doexxx and Snowy can probably fill us in on that.
Are you ready to capitulate Ignatz? That 911 was at least an inside job? I think it has been proved beyond not just reasonable doubt but beyond any possible doubt. |
DNA matching worked like this :
1. Tissue samples were taken at the site of the incident.
2. Hair (probably) was sampled at the homes of the suspected victims.
3. 1+2 were cross-matched, to confirm the crash victims were those on the passenger list.
The only ways to "fake" DNA testing would be :
a. (as you say) kill the passengers in advance and plant their tissue samples in The Pentagon
b. to pre-sample tissue of people who were already lined up as accomplices, and present those samples to the labs at the same time as planting the hair of those accomplices in the homes of the (disappeared) victims, to make it look like the DNA matched.
ok so if it was real you take tissue samples from the victims and match them with hair samples from home.
why does it NOT work that way if all the passengers we killed by other means? |
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Ignatz
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| marky 54 wrote: | | why does it NOT work that way if all the passengers were killed by other means? |
You mean -
Land the plane elsewhere
Kill the passengers
Dispose of the plane
"Sort out" the air traffic controllers and all the computerised records of the flight
"Sort out" casual witnesses to Flt 77 landing elsewhere
Prevent passengers making mobile phone calls when landed / erase all mobile phone records / kill recipients of sneaky calls that got through while the plane was being disembarked
Take tissue samples from the bodies
Dispose of bodies
Add those samples to the Pentagon samples.
etc etc etc
I thought I covered that option?
While you're arranging to do all this, why not just get Flt 77 to crash into The Pentagon?
Please don't buy in to this lunacy marky.
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Micpsi
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: | | Also - too late for details - but there are issues with the passenger lists (low, suspiciously high military connectivity). Maybe deaths were faked. Whatever, the plane did not hit the Pentagon on the basis of the Pilot's evidence so we better think of something. BTW reports of 911 planes still flying after 911 surfaced. |
United Airlines employee Mr Friedman kept a log of all the flights he flew on during 2003, including details about their crews and the tail number (N-number) of the planes. He recorded that on October 4, 2003, he flew on a United Airline Boeing 757 with tail/N-number N591UA. This is the tail number of Flight UA 93 that was supposed to have crashed in Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001. His log was at: http://friedmanfamily.org/ua2003/
However, it now seems to have been taken down. It included the following reaction from Mr Freedman to queries about his remarkable recording of the tail number of a 9/11 plane:
"Important note:
I have received many inquiries regarding the flight on 4/10/03 onboard United Airlines flight 1111. I am not trying to get into the middle of a conspiracy theory. I simply took notes on the aircraft's nose and tail numbers before boarding each flight. Is there a chance that I captured one or the other numbers incorrectly? Certainly. Is it likely that both would have been incorrect? Not really, but it's certainly possible. Is it really something I'm concerned about? Absolutely not. This was intended solely as a fun project to track my flights, a project which was derailed by heightened security concerns - people became too "alerted" when I would start making notes and taking pictures, so I stopped doing it. If you have a problem with the data on my page, well, you probably need to find more outside hobbies."
This issue is discussed at http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/12/306111.shtml. It includes a discussion between Mr Friedman and the person who discovered the anomaly.
The entry of this plane in the FAA registry with the same tail number can be found at:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=591UA&c mndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=13 |
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | why does it NOT work that way if all the passengers were killed by other means? |
You mean -
Land the plane elsewhere
Kill the passengers
Dispose of the plane
"Sort out" the air traffic controllers and all the computerised records of the flight
"Sort out" casual witnesses to Flt 77 landing elsewhere
Prevent passengers making mobile phone calls when landed / erase all mobile phone records / kill recipients of sneaky calls that got through while the plane was being disembarked
Take tissue samples from the bodies
Dispose of bodies
Add those samples to the Pentagon samples.
etc etc etc
I thought I covered that option?
While you're arranging to do all this, why not just get Flt 77 to crash into The Pentagon?
Please don't buy in to this lunacy marky. |
i can see the difficulty in it but the data dosnt match, what happened to passengers if the data dosnt match the offical version, i dont know but questions need to be asked surely?
i doubt your the type of person who would justify it if it was proved beyond doubt and surely you would want to find out also. i mean i know you think/believe the offical storey is true but if the data above is correct what then?
surely it needs to be found out why the data dosnt match the offical version?
ive used if's with the data but from reading what is put above and said above it sounds almost 100% which if we like it or not means faked passengers, passengers killed by other means, or paid of(missing trillions before 9/11)? maybe that amount of money was needed to make it all work but who knows, if the data is correct above(and it looks like it is) it cannot be ignored. |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Good to see The Pentagon back in the spotlight, without any fresh footage, it is a difficult to get any real mileage out of a subject so well debated. Anyway;
The question of the passenger DNA is one of those areas where we are left with that conundrum;
We are told the aircraft was virtually/literally vapourised, yet there were sufficient human remains left to identify practically everyone. Graphic images of deceased Pentagon workers have been published, but nothing whatsoever of torsos strapped into aircraft seats or the like.
The lack of aircraft passenger pictures I can just about accept, but the thoroughness, or rather completeness of DNA matching I cannot.
The question of;
| Quote: | | So please explain how all the missing passengers were matched to their DNA, gathered from body fragments collected in The Pentagon. |
Posed earlier is hardly valid given we have absolutely no proof that the human samples collected at the scene, match the sample results. In other words, in the movie Changing Lanes, the life of Samuel L Jackson was completely changed by a paid hacker who simply emptied his bank account and then listed him as deceased. Altering data is hardly difficult for those with the capabilities.
Or;
It isn't so much that the collected samples needed altering for if they were planted, then obviously you would then have access to the DNA profile of each planted sample prior to the planting taking place. So matching samples would be a breeze;
So if you have planted the samples, then you would already have DNA profiled from those samples. The human remains are collected at the scene by people outside the loop, which go off to a lab outside the loop. Government agents then supply DNA samples to then match to the collected remains which obviously will, given they are one and the same.
We were told that credit card fraud would be a thing of the past with chip and pin, yet it is happening frequently once again. Saying that the results from a few DNA tests cannot be altered is very shortsighted, there being numerous ways to carry this off.
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I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC
Last edited by telecasterisation on Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Thje simplest answer is usially the correct one.
The DNA evidence was made up. Like I suggested. Same way as FRNs and Pounds Sterling* are made these days. With a click of a mouse and the prattle of a keyboard.
*I once asked my grandfather what does this mean?
| Quote: | | I promise to pay the bearer the sum of five pounds |
Decades later I discovered the missing words
A little language goes a long way, eh?
Rothschild & co - a milestone in their communist takeover of the planet.
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