"9/11 CultWatch" - report from Saturday's demo

[xmasdale]

Thank you Graham

Noel

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Valentina sent this reort of the demo:

Hi everyone,

Even if I'm staying too little to consider myself an active member, I did give away tons of leaflets today at the demonstration and I thought you may be curios to know how it went...

Of course some people insulted me, asked me where the hell I took these stupid ideas from (without giving me the time to answer), told me that we "destroy the peace demonstration" and similar (I also had to discuss with a punk - quite obviously on heavy drugs - who didn't seem a particularly lucid political critic).

But it was so good to see a lot of other people who were sincerely interested, who were congratulating on our courage, who asked for more information & links, or simply smiling at us with an expression like "I knew it! I'm so glad somebody is saying it loud". Especially older people (who may be a bit experienced on history) had a definitely "well done" look in their eyes. I though today was great, because we were showing this simple "911 inside job" sentence, which is so obvious for us now, but which is a piece of information that many people would never come across. As I told Edmund... : Communism, global warming, feminism... hey! We're the most up-to-date and hip movement! Nobody talks about this yet!

Just another thing, I also was questioned by a couple of teenagers from the "911 cult watch" - who left before I could answer to them.

Good, that's it! I hope I will see you again (especially Belinda - you're so cool - and Annie - Annie! I've been looking for you!!! hit me back if you can. I'd really really love to talk to you), I'm leaving on the 10th of March for Italy. But I should be in New York by the end of the summer, so if everybody wants to come and give a look at the actual crime scene, drop me a line. I'll also have a goodbye party in some pub probably, I'll let you know, you can come and get drunk and give leaflets to my friends - they already had to hear thousands of hours of political complaining from me, they'll be delighted.

Good luck to you all and many thanks for your warm welcome in the movement. I hadn't done any political activity or volunteering for a while now... it felt good today.

Peace & truth
Valentina

[xmasdale]

Thanks Valentina!

911 Cultwatch were distributing a leaflet entitled "Questions for the 9/11 Truth Movement" designed to make people think twice before taking us seriously.

So far as I am aware we are the only peace group which has another group set up specifically to discredit us. That is quite an honour and suggests that somebody with some money considers us a real danger.

They suggest that we are run by spooks and by innuendo suggests that Annie Machon was somehow implicated in a police execution of Diarmuid O'Neil.

They add their customary allegations of anti-semitism, racism, circular arguments and ridiculous theories such as "No Planes".

The leaflet finishes with a flourish of unsubstantiated allegations:

seeking to fit facts to pre-ordained conclusions,
hosiility to outsiders,
suspension of critical facilities,
denunciation of heretics,
abdication of responsibility to charismatic 'leaders',
repetition of mantras,

All amounting to cult behaviour.


Thank you, Cult Watch. Your attention is high praise indeed.

[TonyGosling]

Can we have a full transcript of the leaflet??
It doesn't appear to be on their website

Did anyone else encounter Larry O'Hara, Heidi Svenson ant the rest?

Larry O'Hara continues to amuse as his paranoia develops a level of frantic sophistication.

[Skeptic]

A bit like the schoolchild who is caught lying and then runs around to other children in the playground saying "if <so and so> tells you I was lying, don't believe them".

[Stephen]

They will be in BIG TROUBLE (I'll Give them a Piece of my mind) if I see them giving out leaflets like that, are these Brain Washed kids with the Flyers? Noel any chance we could see that Leaflet mate. THIS IS WELL OUT OF ORDER!

[jaclec]

Here's the link to the 911 cult watch flyer.

http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/911cult_012.htm

[Thermate]

From point 3: "He also alleges a "Zionist conspiracy...they were behind 9/11" (New Statesman 11/9/06). ...snip... Conspiracy theorising rightly has a disreputable aura--and the deeper you get into the 9/11 cult the more such takes hold. Check out 'super poster' contributions on the nineeleven.co.uk uk web-site. Sadly, anti-semitism aside, conspiracy theories tend towards the conventionally racist ...snip..."

And from point 4 we have: "To arrive at an approximation of truth all angles need looking at."

Hypocrite much?

Being a Zionist isn't a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free-Card... Or is it???

[ian neal]

Hi Stephen

Just so long as we are clear that BIG TROUBLE only involves a full and frank exchange of views and nothing physical. I have always been very clear in advocating that any engagement with our critics is NON VIOLENT and respects the rights of others to think and believe differently. The way to diffuse ridiculous claims that the 9/11 truth movement is a cult is to not rise to the bait nor behave as a cult might.

So whilst ill-informed hit pieces such as Monbiot's most recent article, the schnews article from last year and NFTB writings can be irksome, I actually welcome the publicity. My response to people such as Monbiot and NFTB who seem to view 'us' as a mortal danger to 'their' movement is show them that we have common cause with them on many issues and their opposition to 'us' is inherently undemocratic.

How can it be that polls show a growing majority in the US (and I suggest in the UK as well) are deeply sceptical of the OCT of 9/11 and yet this viewpoint is effectively banned from any national stop the war platform?

In my experience the majority of people who are sceptical of the OCT of 9/11 also consider themselves against war, poverty and fascism and for peace, environmental sanity, social justice and an alternative vision of globalisation. So I would argue this very much makes 'us' a part of the movement that Monbiot et al claim for themselves.

We should see their opposition as a complement whilst accepting that some of NFTB criticisms with regards to how 'we' organise (guffaw)ourselves are legitimate.

Because there is such a diversity of opinions across the 9/11 truth movement, it has long been the UK campaign's position that anyone can speak in support of the campaign but no one officially represents it. The position of the campaign is very straight forward. The OCT as represented by the Kean Commission is provably wrong in many essential details and a new fully independent, judicial investigation is required. We do not claim to know 'what really happened'

The danger of such an approach is that those with the highest profile (such as David S) are seen de facto to represent the movement where as in fact they speak purely in a personal capacity. The second problem stems from using a public forum (that despite numerous disclaimers) is seen by critics to be representative of the campaign, which is why I have suggested the changes to this forum that I have. A public forum where anyone can register is not an appropriate way to communicate a campaign

[karlos]

just joined the message board
I wanted to thank you all for your efforts and inform you that you are definately spreading the word. I am a convert and now wish to help spread the word. It feels almost like my rose tinted glasses were removed and now i can see history and much of the daily news media as being a complete bunch of liars.

The anti war movement and the 911 truth movement must coordinate because many left wing anti war types dont seem to have seen the light yet.

[Stephen]

Ian,

BIG TROUBLE DOES ONLY MEAN, a frank exchange of views, I'm a NON VIOLENT PERSON but this just crosses the line for me, I carn't respect peoples veiws like that, and the 9-11 Truth Movement should make a complant to Stop The War, I'm not sure I want anymore to do with The Stop the War Movement.

[ian neal]

Thanks Stephen. I assumed this to be the case

I just wanted to clarify because experience tells me some critics have a nasty habit of selectively quoting posts from this site to use as evidence to fit their pre-conceived assumptions with regards 'us': namely that we respond to criticism violently.

[Leiff]

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[TonyGosling]

Did this spotty youth happen to mention whether or not he was on the MI5 payroll?

and BTW....... does anyone have any thoughts as to who might be behind Larry O'Hara - or is he just a lone wolf who thinks he sees spooks everywhere?

[Snowygrouch]

There appears to be funds of some sort flowing into their campaign. Their site has been revamped (now with COLOUR ).

If they just feel so strongly that they are prepared to put their own cash into this or if they have recived "backing" is impossible to say really.

My money is on them just being a small group of ultra-paraniod loons to be honest. (of course I could be wrong).

C.

[ian neal]

Let's not fall into the trap of labelling our critics loons and paranoid in much the same way as they do to 'us'. A bit of colour and new content on a website does not equal a cash injection.

Their primary beef stems from Annie and David's involvement. If we want to understand their reasoning this is the place to start.

Having said that I would pose the same question they ask of David and Annie (why their relatively late interest in 9/11) back to NFTB. For an organisation with such a keen interest in the secret state, one would assume that 9/11 warranted their interest long before the anarchist bookfair of 2005 alerted them to the existence of the 9/11 truth movement.

[QuitTheirClogs]

Could it be nothing more than a turf war? Quote from issue seven: