Milan Rai in hippieland

[paul wright]

Well, Hebden Bridge anyway, that well-known bastion of all things cutting edge - social organisation, therapy, the arts, politics, sexuality, stuff like that. Well, they'd probably heard about the book and sensibly stayed away.
Except one very nice bloke called Dave, who said he'd been in HB for a few months, and had yet to find a core of 911 Truth types there. Well, I can't believe that. Where are they - these people who booked Ian Crane into the Trades Club last year? Those on the orgonite fringe Why do they make themselves so hard to find? Why aren't they posting into this forum?
Why was Dave the sole representative of local 911 truth types at the meeting. He put some very good points across. Hopefully he'll start posting here soon
Then there was Mick from Leeds of course. Mick was fit to blow a gasket before the meeting got underway. Mick's from Beeston long time, and as he said, represents the guys and their families. If I were a proper reporter, I'd have had a notebook and properly recorded what was said
Suffice it to say, that Mick was convulsed with the absurdity of Milan's repeating of government and police lies regarding 7/7, 9/11, Al Qaeda, as he produced various bits of Observer front page cuttings to prove his point
Milan did draw some interesting diagrams on his flip chart, lots of lines going in various directions, to demonstrate the core of al-Qaeda, and yet as a decentralised organisation. I really don't need to say too much more about Milan. His stuff is vacuous and suspect, and as Pat from Blackpool 911 said, he'd love to be regarded as the next Noam Chomsky
Any way back to Mick, - apart from one outburst regarding the evidence-free lies being promulgated - finally got the floor, and in typical blustery fashion, posed three rather pertinent points, don't know what they were now though he did flash around that faked Luton station picture to some effect. Honestly Mick worked himself into such a state that he was accused of 'verbal violence' by one of the prim peaceniks in the audience Look lady, you need to distinguish passion from violence , or have you never experienced passion in your life?
Anyway, yeah, Mick stormed out, and I could easily have stormed out with him, but let the feelings lie
If I were a proper reporter with a notebook and pencil, I could record here the sharp comments of the Ally posse from Leeds at the back of the room. The magnificent locks dude cracks me up, but they got pissed of with the package of lies being relentlessly presented, and kind of, you know, stormed out with various comments as to the verissimilitude of Milans presentation. Always nice to meet people, if only for a moment.

And Pat from Blackpool, I hope that correponds to your real name, it's all I'm left with. What a stunning performance. He ought to do a turn at every 9/11 event. He starts out with him telling his mother to 'blame it on the bloody government', sounding like he's supporting the Rai thesis, and gradually turns it around to where he's donating a £20 deception note to Milan's cause saying there's more truth in that single note than in the whole of the bloody book. Too true. Well he's achieved a certain level of passion, and well, kinda storms out. A star turn, let me assure you

I really cant take the piss out of gentle Jane. Her genuine question of how we make the people more sensitive to the horror of what goes on, to try to ameliorate the general divisiveness, well Jane, yes the genuine likes of Helen John was there - there does need to be some bridgebuilding

I was happy to be able to thank Milan, when he commented that his tour had given a further boost to the Conspiracy movement and an opportunity to voice our stuff - this was the one genuine if slightly patronising comment he had made all evening
There's plenty else, but that's enough for now

[Justin]

Nice one 'dh' - I don't think Milan's book will now be in the list of top bestsellers. Poor chap. Out of interest, how many were in the audience who were not 9/11 activists? And did you see anyone actually buy his book? And now that you have enjoyed an evening with him, do you think he is just simply very naive and out of his depth, or is there another agenda operating?

BW

Justin

[Ally]

Crikey, that was a top night out, poor Milan the useless idiot, he must have thought the majority of the public are dimwits, I reckon close to 50 people were packed into the wee church room and half were not buying the unquestioning BS put forward by Rai.


The initial memory is of Milan being protected by the host down the front as a bloke who turned out to be Mick Dear sat in the front row, shaking with rage and blurted out his response every time Milan lied, the host couldn't take it and told him to shut up or leave, Mick made some good points but his seething anger at Milan's lies overshadowed them. Only a couple of old gran's spoke up to defend Milan. As the talk proceeding Milan's description and diagram of how Al-Qaeda operated was beyond a joke, a few squiggles on a piece of paper to indicate this 'loose network based on an ideology'.

Milan's presentation on why the Leeds lads 'done it' had the room in stitches, he said they wanted to reach out to their victimised Muslim brethren in Iraq and they wanted to achieve immortality, this got plenty laughs from the crowd.

A guy DH called 'Pat' made the finest speech of the night, crazy theatrics from the man with the moustache, he told me his name was Thomas.

I posed a question to my friends before we arrived, does Milan know he's lying? A friend hit him with the question that the accused are not guilty until the government shows us the CCTV of them in London together on 7/7 - Milan said he didn't think it important as he was sure they were guilty, he said if others felt the need to see the tapes for proof, he 'understood' our position. This point was the crux in us thinking Milans was utter disinfo and was being paid to lie. I levelled him with this but he looked away from me to the ground, liars are never good at holding eye contact.

Great event but never got a chance to meet others as had to zoom home. I was very surprised at the diversity of men and women of all ages who didn't believe the government 'story' Milan was selling. Kinda felt sorry for the poor fools who'd invited him to talk and then found that at least half the audience disputed his narrative.

Soz this is a quick rabbit, but who else was there?

I remember studying Chomski at Uni and his core theory about the mass media were they were constantly lying to create a false conscience yet Milan writes a book entirely based on media reports and doesn't question the intergrity of a single theory he put forward. I just can't reconcile his position with his supposed endorsement by Chomski.

[Pikey]

Marvellous report dh, thanx for that!

Spot on concerning Mick IMO, the most passionate 911 truth campaigner I have met to date!

[ian neal]

Thanks DH and Ally for these reports. Assuming these accurately represent events I think the interesting thing here is the extent of scepticism and rage (passion) being expressed. If there were 50 people in attendence and half were 'not buying his b/s' that's lots of people of a similiar view who weren't 'buying his b/s' not because they had been told to think this way by this or another site, not because they had been put up to hijack the event by 'us' (not that there is any 'us' as in some kind of central organising group) but because this is what a large number of people believe.

Just to clarify to Milan (or Rachel), since I suspect you occasionally read the posts here. From my point of view and I suspect many others, your book is bs because you assume that the Leeds 4 are guilty on the basis of the v limited evidence currently in the public domain. Shame on you. In your book you unquestioning accept the official stories of 9/11 and Oklahoma City. Shame on you. On July 7, it may come to pass that evidence does exist and is put in the public realm that proves the Leeds 4 were involved and possibly that they were suicide bombers, but to date the authorities have yet to prove this. To put your name to the July 7 inquiry petition (as you have) and at the same time publicly state the Leeds 4 are guilty as charged (by the media) is intellectually dishonest (that's being charitable).

If in the future it were to come to pass that their guilt is proven (beyond reasonable doubt) that will not make you 'right' and 'us' 'wrong'. You can never be 'right' unless you accept the error of assuming their guilt (without any fudge or qualifying statement) before the release of the narrative, before the case is proven. Were their guilt to be 'proven', this would not make 'us' wrong since to the best of my knowledge no-one here is saying they know what happened on July 7 or that they can prove that the Leeds 4 were innocent. 'We' just point to the gaps and questions in the 'official story' and demand the same inquiry that you shamelessly have put your name to.

Finally a quick thought on how best to challenge Milan. After the London meeting there was criticism that some speakers challenging Milan were too agressive and seen to rant and that this reduced the effectiveness of the challenge and there was a need for a more controlled approach to get our message across. Now there is probably some truth in this and it is good to share such feedback. By the sound of it certainly Ally and Mick gave Milan some 'empassioned feedback' on his book.

My point would be that even if 'we' wanted to 'control' Ally, Mick and others (and I'm not saying we do), there is no way 'we' could do so. Rachel has criticised 'our' contribution at the London event v strongly labelling 'us' all as conspiraloons and fruitbats for daring to have doubts about the official version.

There are various lies and inaccuracies in her writings but perhaps the most dishonest is that we are some how a co-ordinated campaign of one mind-set/worldview that can be safely stereotyped as raving nutters and delusional fanatics. This is not true. Amongst 'us' there may be people who will appear to some as raving and delusional (no doubt 'the prim peacenik' dh refers to will have Mick down as one such person).

But at present we are co-ordinated only to the extent we choose co-ordinate ourselves via this forum and other communication and we shouldn't give the illusion that there is some way in which to 'we' can control or police either the 7/7 truth movement or the 9/11 truth movement, even if we wanted to. What unites us is our support for an independent investigation of 9/11. Many of us also support the call for a public inquiry into July 7 although this is not stated on the front page

It is a fact of life that any political or campaigning movement will have its 'loose cannons' and discreditable individuals (occasionally these disruptives are even planted). Typically campaigns and political parties go to all kinds of contortions, fudges and political games in order to keep such individuals silent and present this 'credible' face to the world. IMO we should not try to repeat this with this 9/11 or 7/7 network. On an issue like 9/11 or 7/7 it would be impossible and undesireable to try and control grassroots campaigning. We should all speak our truth how we see it

That is not to say there is not value in developing the more professional website (separate from this forum) and public speaking team (as was proposed at Blackpool and is currently being worked on) that aims to present our strongest and most credible evidence/face to the world

And as a point a clarity, I suspect Mick would say he speaks in support of the guys and their families rather than 'represents' them in any formal way.

[Ally]

There was def at least 40-45 people. I thought everything Mick said was top notch despite his wrath but there were other speakers who made some of the same points but with great eloquence like that pat/thomas bloke and many others totally dismayed that milan was pushing the official story about 911. Shame Mick left early but I think there were enough varied voices, at least a dozen who spoke out against Milan's theory in a variety of ways that would have left those ignorant of reality rather more clued up. Half the room roared when Milan was mocked over such things as claiming Osama had just released a new tape despite him being dead for several years according to some sources.

[ianrcrane]

Outstanding reports - Thank you.

It sounds as though Milan Rai's appearance in Hebden Bridge was far more 'entertaining' than the rather subdued occasion in Yeovil!

What is really pleasing is that I don't actually recognise some of the names that are referred to in the preceding reports ...which means that the number of 7/7 sceptics is increasing!

I absolutely endorse Ian Neal's observations and hope that Milan (and Rachel) appreciate the spontaneity of the reaction at these events. Milan may have intended to be facetious when he suggested that his book tour was doing a good job of promoting the 9/11 Truth Movement but he is absolutely correct ... this is indeed an unexpected but most welcome benefit!

The book is so shallow that it is really a wonder that any self-respecting publisher would entertain the idea of producing and promoting a work that is at best a shabby collection of selective information that has previously appeared in newsprint. With over 90% of the information in the book referenced to newspaper articles, Milan has failed to include or make comment on any article or even acknowledge that there is evidence which calls the pre-narrative official account into question.

It is significant that the book has been released in paperback; at best, it is the work of opportunists. When I was challenging Milan on the veracity of evidence implicating the alleged perpetrators, he placed a lot of focus on the Mohammed Khan video. Even Rachel has re-produced part of the 'leak' intimating that the Narrative will not put any weight on this video as it appeared to have been 'edited'!

For all his criticism of the British Media, it seems that Milan Rai's world view is limited to what he reads there! As an active Peace Campaigner , he should be advised to pursue his research to a depth where he truly comprehends the 'root' causes of the manufactured war on terror; until then he is but an unwitting (I hope!) puppet of the accepted and approved dissident left; doing little more than contributing to the illusion of our smoke & mirrors democracy.

Milan, perhaps you are a brilliant strategist and your rush release was intended, all along, to surreptitiously expose the shortcomings of the evidence presently in the public domain? If this is the case, I take my hat off to you sir because you have done an outstanding job! Any discerning reader cannot fail to notice that your account is about as 'balanced' as the Pentagon accounts under Dov Zakheim!

Thank you for creating the opportunity for our concerns to be introduced to a wider audience.

Ian R. Crane

[kbo234]

Great report. Encouraging that apparently many 'new' sceptics appeared at the meeting. Did anyone get their email addresses?

[Jane]

Does Milan know he is lying?

Well, interesting question - I don't know, someone in his position may well be knowingly "lying" and be one of these "gatekeepers of the left" I hear tell about - as to the other run of the mill members of "the audience" like my friend Chirs, a not at all "left wing"/SWP person (constantly at loggerheads with them!!) member of Bradford STW group - whom I happened to meet on the train and haven't seen for ages... who joined STW because like me, he just can't bare to see babies getting bombed and killed.......he just doesn't "get" what we are on about re "The Truth Movement" at all - due to no "hidden agenda" I assure you (I know him too well!).

There is a lot to "take in" re what we are saying - and I suggest we all learn to calm down, speak our truth as clearly, and with as little anger as possible, and if they do not "hear us" then we simply "shake the dust from our shoes" and try again somewhere else...

Try reading "Life As Awakening" from the Mind/Body Section of Adrian Connock's "Official Confusion" website ....and see what you make of it - and if it makes no sense whatsoever to you - whereas I have lived and breathed this kind of thing for around the last ten years - then I shall stamp and shout at you all, calling you all "Gatekeepers Of Reality" that are keeping me imprissoned in this Hell! Make any sense to you? Possibly not, but then remember what we are saying makes very little sense to the majority of people around us - or the world would not be in this dreadful state - then please learn to try to understand and be a little more tolerant of the masses to whom the statement "9/11 was an inside job" makes about as much sense as "the ordinary mental state of most humans is literally a form of dreaming while asleep" may mean to some of you...[/quote]

[Andrew Johnson]

Thanks for the report guys - I wish I'd been there - not too far from my original neck of the woods 1

I think it goes someway towards supporting the saying:

"Ye' can tell a yorkshireman - buy ye can't tell 'im much"

Keep up the pressure, all....

[paul wright]

Thanks Ally for doing that. Yes there was a lot of scepticism within the general audience, including I'm happy to say one guy seen wielding some Socialist Workers later on. One or two people reported having watched Loose Change2
I have the feeling that a lot of the audience maybe came along for an anodyne emollient for their high-principled but frustrated peace-seeking, but instead got a line of meth
I think rabble-rousing in the right situations should be something we could be rather good at
Let's shake up those who've at least got the right feelings for things, before the incipiently fascist state shakes them up and dumps them in labour camps
As you say, top notch entertainment

[Pikey]

Did anyone manage to supply our 7/7 and 911 leaflets and dvds to the audience? Did black moutache distribute those outstanding deception £20 notes with the web sites on?

Happy 911 truth creating

[paul wright]

[Ally]

[Prole]

Hi Ally

I can send up some of the new pink/mauve J7 leaflets just pm your details.

[Prole]

Adrian @ Official Confusion has these flyers:

[paul wright]

Hi Ally,
I kind of vaguely know of the event you're speaking of, I think Jane told me about it, but perhaps you'd post details
I don't know if the pink/mauve 7/7 leaflets mentioned by Prole, correspond, but I've got a whole bunch of the new version of the leaflet
at julyseventh.co.uk. I had intended to distribute this at the Rai meeting, but Mick had already got round with the similar though messier earlier version. I have got 2000 of those latter still,btw
I'm in the process of copying off that James Stewart dvd format 7/7 number as well, and have a fair number of Ian's 9/11-7/7 presentation, though I'd love to see an updated and expanded version of that, Ian. Also got copies of the well-known 9/11 docs, and am awaiting a copy of Improbable collapse, if that's what it's called
So resources shouldn't be too much of a problem
Cheers