Is discussing the Holocaust a taboo subject on this board?

[lowlight]

"Surely, Lowlight, with your defence of all things Israeli and your odd spelling of Jerusalem and your abusive language you would feel more at home with your pals on the Little Green Footballs forum?

Another one to be ignored."

Wow, your knowledge of Hebrew is deep. 'Jerusalem' is a corrupted English transliteration of the Hebrew 'Yerushalayim'.

Loved the way you cut off the debate without any actual response. Great way to show prospective contributors to the site how well 'truthers' think. Oh well, another nail in the coffin.

Also loved your misrepresentation of my words - 'defence of all things Israeli'... I didnt say that, or imply it, but maybe you cant read. Another great advert for 9/11 truth.

How many public lectures have you given on 9/11? If you have not given any, i suggest you stop questioning my credentials by saying i am someone to be ignored.

'Abusive language', do you not think your idea that Zionists want to control the world is abusive to Israelis/Jews? If you think Zionism is a monochrome movement it shows how little you know.

Anyway, back to topic...

Anyone wanting to bring up Holocaust denial on this site should seriously think about what they are doing. The 'no Holocaust' arguments suffer from one major problem. There are wrong. Faurrisson etc are Nazi apologists. Simple as. Bringing such retarded arguments into a space meant for raising real questions over 9/11 will tar the movement forever.

[London Mick]

I do believe the time is long gone when decent people cared if Zionists/Isrealis or sadly ordinary Jews are offended. We see what the Israeli thugs and gangsters and porn merchants are doing to the children of Palestine and Lebanon. Most people see this illegal state as a curse on the planet and if good, decent Jews are offended by that then they should speak out against what these monsters are doing in the name of Judaism.

Thank God some free thinking Jews in this country are getting together to oppose the stranglehold that the jewish establishment has on independant thought amongst British Jews.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2005881,00.html

[rodin]

[rodin]

[kbo234]

[lowlight]

The '6 million' figure is inaccurate, but understandably so given the choas in Europe at the time and in the aftermath. In some earlier scholarship, some towns were counted twice (especially in Eastern Europe) due to the names being spelled differently when transliterated. The Leading scholar on the Holocaust, Raul Hilberg, has put the figure at about 5.1 million Jewish deaths. The six million figure is not put out maliciously, rather it is just a little dated.

As for Faurrisson and Leuchter et al, there is little point in arguing the case anymore. If they want to believe the Holocaust is a hoax then so be it. No amount of evidence will persaude them otherwise. The Shoah is one of the most documented events in history, if we chose to believe it didnt happen then you have to doubt everything in the past. The best thing to do is take it from the horses mouth. Read 'into that darkness' by Gita Sereny in which she interviews Treblinka commandant Franz Stangl before he died. Why would such people implicate themselves in the crime if they knew it never happened? Utter madness.

A last word. If anyone out there really thinks the Shoah is a hoax read the following...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destruction-European-Jews-Raul-Hilberg/dp/0300 095570/sr=1-9/qid=1172611698/ref=sr_1_9/026-0380668-5246807?ie=UTF8&s= books

by Raul Hilberg. Its 1500 pages plus and documents the whole tragedy. If you are not willing to read real scholarship on the issue before sounding off on the argument you have no credibility. Of course it is easier to just read a few pages from bs websites citing neo-nazi sources but hey, whatever.

[kbo234]

Fair enough.

Thank you.

[London Mick]

Oops!

[rodin]

[kbo234]

[Rabbie McM]

Ian, I agree in part with your logic about not playing into the hands of the ADL with posts here.

From that statement, you show you understand how powerful this group is.

The problem we have is that if I say to many people - "Zionists and Israel are responsible for 9-11" - they will not believe it. The fact still remains
- they are responsible. Why are the UK and US govts covering this up? Because sad to say they are effectively controlled by Zionists. It is a stitch up that has been going on for centuries, millenia even. But now, Zionism and it's agents are reaching the zenith of power.

People should internet search for the neocon policy document "Clean Break" if they haven't already. They're going for Iran next - it's all scripted.

This 9-11 truth movement will make no breakthrough until it names and shames the enemy no matter how painful it is. It isn't aliens who did 9-11, it wasn't an "inside job" - it was Zionist Israel and the western ZOGs.

It is for that reason that I submit - no breakthough will be made with 9-11 truth - because most are too scared to mention the enemy - because they may be labelled an anti-semite. Well done to the few posters on this site who have had the courage to point where the evidence lies.

[lowlight]

"Also it makes no sense that the Nazis would want to exterminate their sources of free labour while a war a war on. They were stretched on all fronts. They needed Jews and everyone else to work for them.

Can you understand that it is possible to find the whole thing extremely puzzling?"

Yes it is puzzling. But only in respect of the depths of Nazi hatred for Jews, Gypsies et al. They actually diverted trains which could have helped the war effort in order to ship more Jews to the camps. Mad? yes, but thats the point.

Part of me would really love to discuss this all day and night. But i simply do not have the time or will power to do so. For me it is something akin to having to argue that the sky is blue. I will say this though. You said 9/11 has caused you to doubt many things, and this i can perfectly understand. It is a logical step when faced with the problems surrounding 9/11. However the problem lies in then believing anything that says 'all you know is wrong, event X really happened like so, or didnt happen at all'. Im all for skepticism and questioning. However my BA, MA and Phd research has focussed on Holocaust theology, for which i have to sift through many books on the subject of the Holocaust. I have no need to question whether it happened, ive seen al the evidence i need. From your response i can see that you are essentially rational and i dearly hope that you follow up your research with real scholarly books. As a rule ignore websites. Most are unsourced and can get away with saying anything. Real research is often tedious, exhausting and in the case of the Holocaust, extremely depressing. However it is necessary if a commitment to truth (something so often lauded on this site) is genuine. Sereny's book is great, but it is a fragment of the vast scholarship available. Michael Marrus has a fantastic overview of the whole discipline called 'The Holocaust in History' which would be a good starting point for you.

Have you ever noticed how people who deny the Shoah in chatrooms etc have never read a book on it. Their exposure to it consists of the Holocaust Deniers fallacious evidence. Thats why they are so convinced. I can say no more on the subject. I would only be repeating myself and futher debate with those of a fixed mind no longer interests me. Its a total waste of time. Good luck with your reading, I hope you see the light.

[brian]

lowlight, if you have no wish to discuss it fair enough but please do not treat others as deserving of your pity. They are not and there is nothing cut and dried regards this subject.

My Role in the Zündel Trial

Mark Weber

--Pearson spent a good bit of time citing a recently-published book by Canadian-Jewish professor Michael Marrus, The Holocaust in History. (Marrus sometimes sat in on the court proceedings.) Apparently confident that it would impress the jury, the prosecution attorney asked me to acknowledge Marrus' not unsurprising reference to Holocaust Revisionist historians as "malevolent cranks." Pearson also referred to Marrus' citation of the well-known letter by Göring of July 31, 1941, about the "final solution," as if this is a sinister reference to extermination. But as I pointed out, Marrus does not let the reader know that the document itself specifically refers to solving "the Jewish question by emigration and evacuation." This method of selectively presenting history, which is all too typical of Holocaust historians, is essentially deceitful, I said.

With regard to the alleged extermination program, Marrus writes that "the Nazis' own records provide little help. Typically, Hitler and his lieutenants cloaked their most criminal activities in euphemistic language, [and] tried strenuously to keep their murderous plans secret ... " Marrus also mentions "the absence of a clear record of Hitlerian decision making on the Final Solution ... " This is Marrus' roundabout way of saying that there is no documentary evidence for the alleged extermination policy. He simply ignores the numerous German documents which confirm that there was no such policy or program. Nor does he bother to explain why the highest-level German officials should deceive each other about an extermination policy that was not only supposedly well-known in Germany, but which Allied propaganda was tirelessly announcing to the entire world. Like other Holocaust historians, Marrus starts with the unproven extermination thesis, and then tries to find evidence to support it. This is precisely contrary to the methodology of an honest and open-minded historian. --

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p389_Weber.html

[Disco_Destroyer]

[Disco_Destroyer]

[Disco_Destroyer]

[Abandoned Ego]

I read this thread, and cant help getting the impression that the Global Elite are actually right after all.

Perhaps we, the "Bovi" don't deserve to be treated with respect.

In a word, 'embarrassing'.

Here is a thread which denies the mass murder of humanity by one of the pawns of the very people who's siblings were later responsible for 9/11.

So, to me

Either these folks did 9/11 and there was a holocaust against humanity,

or 19 Arabs with boxcutters did 9/11 and there wasnt actually a Genocidal holocaust in Germany. Not to mention the Genocide that was WW2 itself - Paid for by YOU and your forefathers incidentally

Meanwhile , I guess those holocaust deniers can please themselves.

I just wish that those lunatics who infest this forum with holocaust denial nonsense would truly realise the damage that they do to this movement.

But then again, perhaps thats part of the plan of these fruitcakes.

[blackcat]

Why do people who accept the Holocaust happened as described get annoyed when anyone questions the veracity of elements of the event? Surely they should welcome any investigation to keep the issue alive, and since they accept it as truth, any investigation will reveal that truth and reinforce their version. Instead, we have laws preventing the "denial" of the Holocaust which in reality means anyone who questions ANY part of the official story can be prosecuted. Something not quite right there!!! If anyone questioned the slaughter at the Somme in WW1 they would either be ignored or ridiculed. If research revealed some new historical "facts", they would be debated, not forbidden, as indeed is the case with all history - with one exception. How many people know that "World Jewry" declared war on Germany in 1933? Certain facts are ignored and others constantly highlighted until there is at the very least a distortion of events. When people make reasonable questions such as how could so many bodies be burned in such a small amount of time, the answer is to check out the site of the burial area and prove it happened. By protesting that nobody must ever raise such issues is the action of someone who seems to have something to hide.

[Disco_Destroyer]

[karlos]

Ofcourse the moon landing are a hoax. Anyone who believes that during the sixties, before Laptops, colour TVs, Digital Watches, Calculators, Silicon Chips etc,
that somehow we lifted thousands of tonnes of fuel, liquid oxygen, metal, equipment, etc and carried it 250,000 miles when the furthest anyone or anything had been before was 150 miles.
I could go on but you all know iit is total nonsense. But we were taught it in school as though it were fact.
We have been taught darwinism as though that was fact but that too has now been disproven.
911 is the same in a long line of lies. First we believed what our eyes saw and what we were told. Then we started to question. Now we know it was all total * and Bush, cheney, Marvin Bush, Silverstein, Mossad, etc did the whole thing themselves.
The worlds biggest gold bullion robbery. The worlds biggest insurance fraud. The worlds biggest single act of mass murder.

Move on to the second world war. It is true that there was mass murder, but not the exactly what we have been taught.
Romany Gypsies, Slavs, and other ethnic minorities including Jews were killed in the thousands. Much like the Bosnian Muslims recently.
However, the figure of six million is a total exageration. After all a pre war census showed there was only 400,000 in total so if you deduct the ones who escaped to Britain and America etc you are probably left with a figure in the 100,000s.
100,000 is still a dispicable and evil act carried out by a racist and evil regime the like of which has not to ever be anything other than condemned. But 6 million is a total lie and any simple research looking at census figures proves it.
Why dont we ever hear of Stalin's genocide and in fact it was bigger and more brutal than the one we do hear about.


http://stelios69.blogspot.com

[Disco_Destroyer]

If anyone wants to discuss what I believe can it be done by PM as not to distract from our main cause ie. 9/11

[brian]

Abandoned Ego, think about what you are actually saying here -

"Here is a thread which denies the mass murder of humanity by one of the pawns of the very people who's siblings were later responsible for 9/11."

If Hitler was a pawn and those you refer to were capable of the 9/11 lie then .....?

We are all revisionists of the 9/11 official history here and its study leads to the inescapable conclusion that much of the official accepted version of history does not stand scrutiny.

[Dogsmilk]

[blackcat]

[rodin]

[London Mick]

Why all the ridiculing of research done on the internet? It's the quickest and easiest way to get the facts and points one in the direction of further research if needed.
Here is an article about World Jewry's Declaration of War on Germany in 1933 before Hitler came to power.. Prior to this the Germans blamed Jewish financiers for the terrible depression years and the Versaille Treaty which decimated Germany industry..........
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles  /jdecwar.html

[Dogsmilk]

[karlos]

911 was a Zionist Event organised by mossad and carried out using double agents and stolen identities.
We have all seen the dancing israelis on the rooftop.
We know they were arrested and held for several months.
But because their agenda coincided with Bush and Bliar and Larry Silverstein made $7 billion profit

www.stelios69.blogspot.com

[rodin]

[karlos]

please dont confuse JEWS with ZIONISTS.