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andrewwatson
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: 7/7/05: why is this on this forum? |
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I am a new member who has read extensively the main arguments for the existence of doubt about the truth of the official 9/11 story. They are impressive and worthy of serious investigation and I join whole-heartedly in supporting a call for more media coverage of the 911 Truth movement.
When it comes to allegations of a similar kind being made about 7/7, I would like to have access to a single, rational document such as the Jones and Griffin reports. Instead I find 10 pages of argy-bargy about numbers which I don't at all follow and one piece of apparent station-bookstall 'faction.'
http://nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=943
Am I alone in feeling that the rational argument is getting lost in a fog of accusations and counter-accusations?. Now Lockerbie, PC Fletcher, virtually everything that we have been told has been terrorism, appears to have been a conspiracy all along. Maybe they are, but the evidence is mostly not firm enough to justify these claims.
I am seriously hoping someone who knows the main picture will clarify the issues on a single list , llike Steven E. Jones has done with his 22 points.
One observation I can make is that for months before 7/7 the Met and the Home Secretary were saying that a major terrorist attack in London was an inevitability. That struck me at the time as strangely defeatist.
Last edited by andrewwatson on Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ally
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Bit of a pointless thred but if you can't be bothered to search yourself here goes.
7/7: Andrew MacGregor speaks out
Andrew MacGregor is retired Victorian policeman and with the australian Adelaide Institute
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Australia/portarthur6.htmalso
On 20-Feb-06, at 6:18 AM, Adelaide Institute wrote:
| Quote: |
Moving towards Checkmate.
“I doubt whether the planners knew that one of the target areas, that
in Russell Square, was within a stone’s throw of a building that
served as the first headquarters of the World Zionist Organization
that preceded the State of Israel.”
Efraim Halevi, who heads the ‘Center for Strategic and Policy Studies
at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, is a former head of the Mossad.
I have already commented on the article written by Efraim Halevi,
that was carried by the Jerusalem Post on the 7th July 2005, the same
day as the bombings took place in London, and have queried the time
factor in receiving such information, disseminating that information,
and then writing this article for inclusion in the Israeli newspaper.
Not being a Londoner made it a bit difficult in comprehending at
first just when and where the bombs went off. It was in fact the
London Bus that was targeted in Russell Square. So let us look a bit
more closely at what has been observed by others since this attack
was featured in the media.
Let us concentrate on the bus bomb for a start, especially
considering what Efraim Halevi has told us, that is that the bus was
either in or near Russell Square. To quote a passage from “7/7
Bombings Final Word: Her Majesty’s Terrorist Network”:
“Why did the cameras on the targeted bus malfunction that day? Why
was the bus diverted from its usual route? We personally visited the
site of the bus bombing at Tavistock Place and verified that no
number 30 bus travels down that road.”
So just how close is Russell Square from Tavistock Place? Just how
did Halevi get the name ‘Russell Square’ as the site of the bus bomb
blast, when it actually took place in Tavistock Place? You could
state that one should never let the facts spoil a good story, as
Halevi brings in his history of Dr Chaim Weizmann and the Balfour
Declaration which in fact digresses away from the actual incident
Halevi was writing about. So what was the error? Was Halevi in error
when he wrote ‘Russell Square’?
This question is answered by ‘Skywalker’ from LibertyForum.org who wrote:
“Some background is in order here. The explosion did not occur at a
bus-stop. According to the majority of eye-witness accounts available
- the driver had stopped to ask for directions from a parking
attendant who was talking to someone else on the curb, in Tavistock
Square, near “77” Russell Street, after the bus was diverted and
please note well - could not possibly have arrived at any passenger’s
legitimate destination.”
But it is the name Tavistock that conjures up other images. Tavistock
and General John Rawlings Rees and his theories on ‘Low Intensity
Warfare’ aka ‘Terrorism’. Tavistock which in WW2 produced the SOE and
the OSS which became the CIA and it was Tavistock that helped set up
the ‘Rand Corporation’ the CIA think-tank.
But I have digressed, so it is back to the bus. In my original
articles I have referred to a witness who claimed that he saw one of
the bombers going through his rucksack just prior to the explosion.
On further study I find that the witness I had referred to was
‘Richard Jones’. Again I can thank ‘Skywalker’ who has done all the
hard work in collecting the various statements made by ‘Richard
Jones’ some of which are as follows:
“I’m just feeling unbelievably lucky. I had just stepped off the bus
when I felt a huge explosion and heard a huge noise….I kept saying to
people, I just got off that bus’.
“Richard, originally of Ardrossan, Ayrshire, ended up on the bus
after the tube was evacuated because of earlier bombs.”
“He spoke of his astonishing escape yesterday and said he only got
off because he was so annoyed by the man next to him fiddling with a
rucksack.”
“Richard said, ‘I thought he was maybe playing with an iPOD”
“The young man got on at the same stop and immediately began to annoy
Richard with his constant fidgeting. Finally, Richard got up from his
seat and asked the driver to let him off.”
“The fact this guy was annoying me so much was another reason why I
was happy to get off.”
“Richard said, ‘I had to bang on the front door and shouted something
like, ‘Come on, Jimmy, we want off.”
“About half a dozen people got out the back door just before us and
the same number, including me, left by the front.”
“Richard, 61, said: “I noticed him as he looked nervous. He was
continuously diving into his bag, rummaging round and looking in it.”
‘I did not see his face because he was constantly looking down.”
“Richard stepped off the bus at his destination. Seconds later it
exploded behind him - with the “bomber” still on board.”
Skywalker then makes this statement in regard to Richard Jones:
“please be aware of a very important factor in this “77” equation -
Richard Jones’ account is the ONLY “solid” (?) evidence the Main
Stream Media have in this investigation so far,”
Skywalker then gives us a most interesting piece of information.
“Terence Mutasa, 27, a staff nurse at University College hospital,
said, “I treated two girls in their 20s who were involved in the bus
bomb. They were saying some guy came in and sat down and that he
exploded. The girls received minor injuries and were in shock and
distressed. “They said the guy just sat down and the explosion
happened. They thought it was a suicide bomber.”
Skywalker states that there is no credence in what this nurse has
stated as it is second hand. In a normal Court of Law, that is
correct, the evidence is ‘hearsay’ and thus not competent in a normal
Court of Law. However it is competent in a ‘Coronial Inquiry’.
So now let us consider just what Richard Jones has told us. Richard
tells us that he boarded the bus after the tube was evacuated because
of earlier bombs. However, the Australian girl interviewed by John
Howard was on the train that was damaged by one of the bombs and she
and thus most of the commuters were unaware that their train had
suffered a bomb blast. Also again, please remember that the original
reports were of damage caused by ‘power surges’. No bombs mentioned
as yet.
Richard Jones has in fact inferred that he was one of those
commuters. He hasn’t stated that he was, but simply that he was on
the bus because of the tube evacuation.
Richard Jones has stated that the ‘young man’ got on at the same
stop. Again the inference is that the ‘bomber’ would have also been
on the same train. Question: Why would two ‘Suicide bombers’ travel
on the same train, when one of them would be attacking that very train?
So, both Richard Jones and the ‘Suicide bomber’ board the bus at the
same bus-stop, and then they sit together. Richard states that he was
annoyed by the man sitting next to him, his fidgeting and so-forth.
But then Richard Jones states that he never saw this man’s face.
Please!
They’ve caught the bus at the same bus-stop. They’ve waited in the
same queue, they’ve sat down together, and the young man has irked
the heck out of this 61 year-old Scot from Ardrossan, Ayrshire, so
much so that Jones has had to get up and actually get off the bus.
Not simply change seats thank-you, or move somewhere else, but
actually get off the bus. Richard Jones states that this man was
annoying him so much so that he was happy to get off the bus, and yet
was unable to identify the man, because the ‘young man’ was
constantly looking down??
Now the bus is diverted. It cannot be due to any bomb alarms, as the
bombs have not yet been identified as such, but rather as power
surges, but the bus is diverted. The only possible reason that comes
to mind would be the ‘mock drills’ carried out by Peter Power’s Visor
Consultants, the so-called ‘anti-terrorist drills’ that were being
carried out simultaneously as the real thing.
Now I have no idea of how far the bus was diverted prior to Richard
Jones getting off in Tavistock Place, or Tavistock Square as it is
also called in some articles, but Richard Jones tells us that 6
passengers alighted from the rear door and he and five others
alighted from the front door. Jones states that within seconds of his
alighting from the bus, the bomb went off.
Richard Jones tells us that he banged on the front door of the bus
and shouted something like, “Come on, Jimmy, we want off.” And only
then did the driver open the doors to let his passengers alight. But
here’s the thing that Skywalker noticed. The eleven people who
supposedly alighted from the bus with Richard Jones did not react
when the bus exploded. Nor did they hang around for the police and of
course the media, but Richard Jones did.
None of these eleven people stayed to help the victims, none of these
people went to corroborate Richard Jones story, and even Richard
Jones tells us with, “I kept saying to people, I just got off that
bus!” Not we, not them and I, just me. How did Richard Jones feel
about his good fortune? “I’m just feeling unbelievably lucky.” A more
prudent man would have been thinking of the victims. Oh, by the way,
if you were a ‘Suicide bomber’ on a bus ready to blow it up and kill
as many of the passengers as you could, would you blow the bus up
before or after twelve of those passengers, including that
cantankerous old Scot who had been seated next to you had a chance to
escape?
In other words, the bomb was planned to explode exactly where Efraim
Halevi muses on the birth of Israel (I doubt whether the planners
knew that one of the target areas, that in Russell Square, was within
a stone’s throw of a building that served as the first headquarters
of the World Zionist Organization that preceded the State of
Israel.”). That means Efraim Halevi, the former head of Mossad knew
prior to the event.
There are though a couple of signs about Richard Jones. We are not
told his occupation, or supposed occupation, nor are we told of the
area where he resides, not even the city. All we are told is that he
originates from Ayrshire and that could be 60 years out of date.
Again, it was only Richard Jones that got up in front of the media
and told everybody his story. It is strange that there was no
corroboration from any other source, and there must have been a
number of witnesses. What is even stranger was the fact that Richard
Jones was able to give his story to the media.
You see, with this particular ‘crime scene’ the police in charge
would be from one of the ‘specialist squads’ most probably the ‘anti-
terrorist’ squad, and they would not want any damaging information to
be leaked out to the supposed ‘terrorists’. Also again in these types
of situations, and it is parallel to Australia’s Port Arthur Massacre
of April 1996, the media is ‘drip fed’, and you would have noticed
that Richard Jones’ story followed the ‘official’ line of young men
with rucksacks.
So the ‘Anti-Terrorist Squad’ has their first major lead in regard to
the London bombing, and they then go and let this vital witness
spread to story loud and clear. Apparently what the ‘Anti-Terrorist
Squad’ didn’t do was to take Richard Jones to a quiet location and
try to get as much information from him as possible, a task by the
way that would have taken several hours. No, they just let him blab
to the media, the last thing they would want from such a vital witness.
So where is the corroborating evidence in regard to Richard Jones
evidence? There will be a lot of people who after hearing Richard
Jones proclaim, “I just got off that bus!” would believe that was
fact, but in truth there is no supporting evidence. In fact there is
no evidence to support any of Richard Jones’ statements, but consider
what the nurse has stated.
“I treated two girls in their 20s who were involved in the bus bomb.
They were saying some guy came in and sat down and that he exploded.
The girls received minor injuries and were in shock and distressed.
“They said the guy just sat down and the explosion happened. They
thought it was a suicide bomber.”
The guy came in and sat down and that he exploded. No mention of the
rucksack, no mention of the fidgeting, no mention of the passenger
beside him becoming so annoyed that he up and left, and no mention of
the eleven other passengers alighting just prior to the explosion.
Now if you had been on that bus and witnessed a dozen people
alighting just prior to the explosion, would that have made an impact
on you? 20%, 25%, or even 30% of the passengers alighting just prior
to the explosion and yet these two girls missed that? And of course
the cameras on the bus were not operating at that particular time and
the head of MI6, Richard Dearlove knows all about switching off
cameras, as he was Head of Paris Station in 1997 when Princess Diana
died.
There is though now two more items to consider. The first is that a
photograph of the bus after the explosion shows the bus outside
Tavistock with the roof blown off. There are seats missing, but the
upper floor was still intact, so the major part of the force of the
explosion from the bomb lifted the roof off the bus. Thus we can
confirm that the bomb was placed within the upper floor of the bus.
That being the case, when we consider Richard Jones’ words, “About
half a dozen people got out the back door just before us and the same
number, including me, left by the front.”
What Richard Jones is telling us is that he was travelling in the
lower floor of the bus. Thus if Richard Jones story was factual, then
he was not sitting beside the bomber. This is the now a major
conundrum; “Who was it who identified the person who had annoyed
Richard Jones so much that he had to get off the bus as ‘the Suicide
Bomber’?”
Richard Jones’ story cannot identify the identity of any bomber,
supposed or otherwise as he was not in any position to identify any
person carrying a bomb because the bomb was on the floor above where
Richard Jones stated he had been travelling. What we have though is a
story that sets the agenda for a ‘Police Search’ for suspects
carrying rucksacks, suspects that the police after viewing countless
videos of various stations of literally millions of passengers,
within days came up with a digitally altered video photograph.
But back to what the two girls said they saw, “some guy came in and
sat down and that he exploded”. So how did witnesses describe the
other explosions on the trains? Again from the work of Paul Joseph
Watson and Alex Jones:
“The first eyewitness to report this was Bruce Lait, a victim of the
Aldgate Station bombing.
He told the Cambridge Evening News, “The policeman said ‘mind that
hole, that’s where the bomb was’. They seem to think the bomb was
left in a bag, but I don’t remember anybody being where the bomb was,
or any bag.”
Now another credible source, Guardian journalist Mark Honigsbaum,
talked to eyewitnesses at the Edgware Road bombing, who essentially
described the same thing.
Eyewitnesses told Honigsbaum that “tiles, the covers on the floor of
the train, suddenly flew up, were raised up.”
There is a complete difference in what was described as the guy
exploding on the bus, and the explosions on the two trains. But what
we have is one witness telling the world exactly what Efraim Halevi
the former head of Mossad wanted the world to hear, ‘suicide bombers’.
I believe there is sufficient evidence to show that Richard Jones was
at the very least a ‘Professional Witness’, and he is the only person
recorded to have been in the area just prior to the bomb on the bus
being detonated. That inference can be quite staggering, since it can
be proven that the bombs were not carried in rucksacks, and were not
detonated by ‘Suicide bombers’, then the next question must be, just
how was this particular bomb set off at the desired location of
outside 77 Great Russell Street, and by whom?
Once the media hype of ‘Suicide Bombers’ is destroyed, then what are
the alternatives? With the bomb on the bus outside Tavistock, there
are some very relevant items of information.
Firstly, Richard Jones’ statement naming the person who he apparently
sat next to whilst travelling on the bus can never be considered
factual. The bomb went off after Richard Jones said he alighted from
the bus. Remember, Richard Jones stated ‘I just got off that bus”.
Richard Jones was not on the bus to witness the bomb being detonated
by any person!
The only way Richard Jones could make any judgement of a ‘Suicide
Bomber’ carrying a rucksack was if he had prior knowledge. He
couldn’t see, he couldn’t know from his position, from his story. The
only way Richard Jones could make his claims as he did on the media
was if he had prior knowledge, and he must have had that prior
knowledge.
So what was Richard Jones doing in Tavistock Place when the bomb went
off? Please do not consider Richard Jones as being a passenger on the
bus as there is no evidence to corroborate that story. Besides it is
irrelevant.
We have Richard Jones standing on the pavement outside Tavistock,
just a short distance away from Efraim Halevi’s 77 Great Russell
Street. We have Richard Jones, from his own words, having a prior
knowledge of what is about to happen, standing on the street in
relative safety and the bomb on the bus is detonated.
The only person known to have been in the vicinity of the bus bomb,
with prior knowledge of the bomb was Richard Jones. Richard Jones
must now be viewed as the main suspect for the detonation of that bomb!
I have previously mentioned Peter Power of Visor Consultants so
perhaps it is now time to look at what we are told about Peter Power
by Fintan Dunne, Editor BreakForNews.com on 11th July, 2005:
“Peter Power, a crisis management consultant and former member of
Britain’s anti-terror police to a “terrorism drill” which (Alex)
Jones alleges was used to provide cover for State perpetrators of the
multiple blasts.”
“Peter Power, MD of Visor Consultants is a gent who is well worth a
much closer look. He is the ultimate insider in the coyly-named
Business Continuity (BC) marketplace.
He was selected by the UK Government to write the Best management
Practice Guide on Crisis and BC Planning & Risk Management, a hotly-
trafficed download from the DTI web site [pdf]. He also wrote the
book on BC for the British Bankers Association. He is all over the
media and was a previous award winner for BC ‘personality of the year’.
His firm’s clients in London have included JP Morgan Chase, ING,
Mellon, Lloyds TSB, Morley Fund management, Bank of New York, Arcadia
Group, FCO and Universal Music.
All of which is not surprising, as he has a senior Scotland yard
background which included a stint at the Anti Terrorist Branch, and a
deputy forward control role at the Libyan People Bureau siege. He
frequently speaks on TV & radio, and is the darling of BBC news and
talk shows.
Power surely still has close links with Anti Terror branch, and seems
to operate as a “good cop” for the establishment –in PR terms.
Whenever there is a terror incident, there is Peter on the BBC with a
relaxed attitude; with a habitual, understanding line about how
“stretched” are the security services; and with a reassuring tone
which implies that all is jolly good, top-notch and well in hand.
But some of those many appearances by Power stand out in the context
of the latest London Underground bombings.
One was the occasion of the rocket attack on the MI6 spy headquarters
itself –in central London at Vauxhall Cross, just before 2200 on 21
September, 2000. The missile smashed an eighth floor window on the
southern side of the building, home of the Foreign Intelligence
Service.
Although dissident Irish republicans were the prime suspects, no
group ever claimed responsibility.
Another was the curious bombing of the BBC just six months later on 5
march, 2001. About 15 pounds of high explosive left in a taxi
abandoned outside BBC Television Centre caused only minor damage.
Attacks against the media are pretty rare. The same dissident
republicans were suspected.
After the MI6 rocket attack, as usual Power was quoted by the BBC. He
described the MI6 building as one of the most high profile in central
London
“If you wanted to make a name for yourself, get yourself back onto
the front pages, why not go for something that’s high profile and
minimal risk,” he said.
Why not, indeed.
What we have just been told here is that Peter Power was the deputy
forward controller of the siege at the Libyan People Bureau, the
scene of the shooting murder of Policewoman Yvonne Fletcher, which
was later to be exposed by an American Intelligence Officer, Lester
Coleman, as a psyops. Then Joe Vialls in several articles stated that
he was the gunman that shot PWC Fletcher. Joe Vialls aka Ari Ben
Menashe also claimed links to Mossad and other intelligence groups.
What this means is that we can now link Peter Power to a psyops
incident that occurred on the 19th April 1984, as well as the
possibility of an involvement by Mossad. Look at the last two
‘terrorist attacks’ mentioned by Fintan Dunne, that is against the
MI6 building and outside the BBC and please remember that there were
never any arrests or concrete suspects for those two bombing and the
possibility of these being ‘psyops incidents’ considering Power’s
reactions to them. Then consider the latest London bombings, and we
should become very concerned. Finally consider that a former head of
Mossad, Efraim Halevi appears to have inside knowledge of these
London bombings, of which Peter Power is running a parallel ‘mock’
scenario then the links appear to have been strengthened.
Andrew S. MacGregor |
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.879
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Sinclair
Moderate Poster
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 395
Location: La piscina de vivo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Why? |
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Andrew,
The 7/7 thread is on this forum because it is 'our 9/11' - i.e. an event enacted upon the British people which has been used to 'crank up' the 'War on Terror' & the associated nefarious ramifications.
The various anomalies surrounding the July 05 events in London make the subject worthy of further investigation.
| Quote: | | I find 10 pages of argy-bargy about numbers which I don't at all follow |
Unfortunately, not all participants in the discussions on this forum have the aim of openly addressing such anomalies in order to seek out the 'truth' & these persons have tended to provide links to porn sites or obfuscate the dialogue and confuse others who may stumble in here. Stealth guards should be up!
There are other places on the net where 7/7 research is ongoing....
I think it is wholly acceptable to discuss other issues of interest, which exist in the realms of 'Deep Politics' and have a link (however tenuous) to 9/11 & the reasons why it was perpetrated. I am happy to see posts on current topics such as the Danish Cartoon Debacle, the imminent military strikes on Iran etc. & for people to share information that they find interesting/useful.
Any way, welcome here & I hope you find the forum useful. Any suggestions, post them in the Suggestions Thread
===========
Ally, Interesting post, I hadn't seen that before. There was another 'Professional Witness' as I recall, on the 21st July, (I can't find a link at the mo) a commuter who spouted off to the media about the events of 21st July, later turned out to work for the Police.
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Are you talking about that Larkin bloke who worked for police forensics and claimed Jean Charles de Menedez had bomb wires sticking out his heavy coat when he 'ran onto the tube'?
Or someone else?
More random quotes
Details of the London blasts
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1524480,00.html - bomb reports.
One witness said the floor of the train he was standing on was "blown out" and other witnesses spoke of a huge hole being torn out of the floor.
The Press Association said one man was thought to have fallen through the gap and died. There were unconfirmed reports of another passenger being decapitated.
'I thought I was going to die'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523183,00.html
"I was on a Piccadilly line tube train in between King's Cross and Russell Square, about 8.45 this morning. There was a sudden explosion, the train stopped immediately in the middle of the tunnel and the power went out. The explosion didn't sound like a bomb, more a loud power surge - but almost straight away our packed carriage started to fill with smoke, and people panicked immediately.
Richard South
"I have been in the military and I've never heard anything like it before. But the whole incident was screened by trees in front of the hotel which maybe protected us from any blast."
Chris Gladysz, hotel worker, Tavistock hotel
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Whenever I post on this site I get an email sent to my junk mail full of this:
Ïðèãëàøàåì Âàñ íà ñåìèíàð :
ÎÐÃÀÍÈÇÀÖÈß ÄÅÊËÀÐÈÐÎÂÀÍÈß È ÒÀÌÎÆÅÍÍÎÃÎ ÎÔÎÐÌËÅÍÈß ÒÎÂÀÐÎÂ ÏÐÈ
ÎÑÓÙÅÑÒÂËÅÍÈÈ ÂÍÅØÍÅÝÊÎÍÎÌÈ×ÅÑÊÎÉ ÄÅßÒÅËÜÍÎÑÒÈ
Äàòà ïðîâåäåíèÿ: 1 ìàðòà
Ìåñòî ïðîâåäåíèÿ: ã. Êèåâ, áóëüâ. Øåâ÷åíêî 4, îòåëü "Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã"
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ íà òðåíèíã ïî òåë: (044) 233-73 49 , 237-90 05
Öåëüþ ñåìèíàðà ÿâëÿåòñÿ: ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèå ñîâðåìåííûõ ïîäõîäîâ è íîðì âåäåíèÿ
ýêñïîðòíî-èìïîðòíûõ îïåðàöèé, ïðåäîñòàâëåíèå ïðàêòè÷åñêèõ ðåêîìåíäàöèé ïî
Anyone else get it? Is it even a language? It's happened since i joined here ;-o
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andrewwatson
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 348
Location: Norfolk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ally and Sinclair for the links, though I must admit I find the Andrew McGregor article quite hard to follow. Obviously there is a need, an urgent need for more research. Sorry to profess ignorance of the issues, but until a fortnight ago I knew nothing of the 9/11 truth movement . I stumbled on it through a link in a site about strange unexplained mysteries ( one of my interests is Mars anomaly hunting!). I was shocked by what I learned, and am if anything even more shocked by this. If it were true, it would make Tony Blair's emotional press conference worthy of an Oscar nomination - for the most stomach-churningly insincere speech ever made.
I'm still working on that one. I voted for the guy, twice.
Andrew W
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Jim
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 294
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Ally,
Google search for "(044) 233-73 49 , 237-90 05" leads me to believe that you are receiving something that might be written in the Ukranian language.
Check your e-mail settings in your profile. What is the originator's e-mail address? Are you sure you're not just receiving spam? etc.
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Sinclair
Moderate Poster
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 395
Location: La piscina de vivo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: Larkin around |
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| Quote: | | Are you talking about that Larkin bloke |
Yep, it was him, Larkin.
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Wokeman
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 881
Location: Woking, Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: answer to unreadable text |
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Ally,
That response could have even been in the Russian language, because both Ukrain and Russia use cyrillic text
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I once had a Russian, revealed by checking its properties, trojan that each time you tried to delete it, it generated a two or three letter random code and reinstated itself. I had to take the hard drive back to base to get rid of it
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numeral
Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 500
Location: South London
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: Re: 7/7/05: why is this on this forum? |
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| andrewwatson wrote: | I am a new member who has read extensively the main arguments for the existence of doubt about the truth of the official 9/11 story. They are impressive and worthy of serious investigation and I join whole-heartedly in supporting a call for more media coverage of the 911 Truth movement.
When it comes to allegations of a similar kind being made about 7/7, I would like to have access to a single, rational document such as the Jones and Griffin reports. Instead I find 10 pages of argy-bargy about numbers which I don't at all follow |
Hi Andrew, I am not suprised you are confused about numbers. It is confusing. Take, for example, the position of the PIccadilly line train. The BBC has said it was 457m from Russell Square, Wikipedia says 363m, Joe Orr, a passenger who works for Tubelines, says 380m, Reuters say 650m and no doubt other figures can be found. There are two train numbers in circulation, 311 and 331. We do not even know how many trains were stuck in the tunnel. The cars on the train are given as 166-566-366-417-617-217 with the explosion occurring in the front car 166. There is also a reference to the explosion occurring in a car labelled 364A. It is extremely difficult to find reliable information.
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xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: answer to unreadable text |
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| Wokeman wrote: | Ally,
That response could have even been in the Russian language, because both Ukrain and Russia use cyrillic text |
I believe there is one small difference between the Russian and the Ukrainian form of Cyrillic: the Ukrainian I looks like the Latin I, while the Russian one has two vertical strokes.
Noel
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Jane
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Otley, West Yorks, England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Translation of Ally's message |
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I have just put the message you keep getting (or maybe its stopped by now!) into a Russian -English translater and come up with this:
We invite you to a seminar:
THE ORGANIZATION OF DECLARING AND CUSTOMS REGISTRATION OF THE GOODS AT
REALIZATION of FOREIGN TRADE ACTIVITIES
Date of carrying out: on March, 1st
Place of carrying out: Kiev, bulv. Shevchenko 4, hotel " St.-Petersburg "
Registration on training on bodies: (044 233-73 49, 237-90 05
The purpose of a seminar is: distribution of modern approaches and norms of conducting
Export-import transactions, granting of practical recommendations on
Facinating stuff!!!
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Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
http://www.wytruth.org.uk/ |
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emil
Minor Poster
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi, I'm having the same problem. With 9/11 we have some really strange things, like WTC7 and the lack of plane wreckage at the pentagon and shanksville. But with 7/7 the best we have is confusion over train times, and other details. Which can be explained by the incompetence of the police, etc. (I'm not saying the govt didn't do it, it might have been a false flag op.) However, I'll reconsider my position if some good evidence comes up... Emil
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alwun
Moderate Poster
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: london
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi Emil,
You mention some of the strange things and strange lackings of things on 9/11 in NY. The smoke and mirrors phenomena of 9/11 has been repeated on the population of UK. In London, concerning 7/7, there are still being discovered oddities and difficulties with the actual 'evidence' which is being presented, certainly to me, possibly also to you and many millions of people. One example of oddity is the case of the perceptive and lucky ‘lone witness ‘ - the enigmatic Mr. Jones and his amazing unbelievable tales, brought to our attention above.
Another piece of intriguing ‘evidence’ proffered is the damming snap of the crazy ‘photoshot four’. An alleged ‘still’ or frame, from CCTV footage at Luton that morning is the one that is burned sharply in the minds of many people. In fact the whole case against the four men seemed to have been proven irrefutably via this announced but not seen video. Since the actual video footage has not yet been seen, at least by me, this ‘evidence’ therefore remains uncorroborated to me so far. That is to say that I can only say for certain that it is a still from a vid if I am shown it jerking into life - in the manner of the sometimes stilted footage shown time and again on the real-life primetime tv show - Crimewatch.
Crimewatch does it better!
So, Emil, the ‘photoshot’ referred to above is named in homage to a high-powered image-processing software package. The earnest recommendation from me is that the image be transferred to a usb drive and carried about the person until you, or indeed anyone else who hasn’t had the opportunity yet to do so, can blag a few mins on a pc with photoshot or somesuch loaded. Gently enlarge.
Seeing is believing.
The ‘crazy’ referred to above is applied in honour of the odd nature of the evidence tampering. So bad that it’s deliberate, it’s been said.
‘four’ represents the number of persons said to be present.
This photoshot issue is discussed at length in several places on the web. Notably here, with pics: http://letsroll911.org/ipweb/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8982&postdays =0&postorder=asc&start=0.
An acutely striking manifestation of both events, and which might be classed as similar, is the incredible ease with which massed collections of nominally intelligent beings, in the US and here (and elsewhere, I daresay) have compliantly swallowed all of the horshit thrown around in the aftermath of the murderous explosive detonations at both locations.
You are correct about the confusion over train times, which again is worthy of scrutiny. The confusion emanates directly from ‘security sources’, and the clarity of the matter has in fact been extracted from the rail companies themselves by eloquent and polite persistence on behalf of independent researchers. We wait to see if the forthcoming narrative will continue to promote the ‘official train-time theory’. What do you think?
Cheers .. Allan
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kytheria
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: 7/7 |
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The thing I find rather odd is the fact those boys (evil terrorists apparently) purchased a ticket for the carpark. They also bought return tickets on the train, and all carried ID. Is it a terrorist thing that when they go and blow something up they must carry a copy of the Koran, a badly drawn map and ID? Just sounds a bit Scooby Doo to me.
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Jim
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 294
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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... and it's the caretakers and/or those in charge that are to blame!
Rooby Rooby Rooo!
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Andrew Johnson
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Posts: 1919
Location: Derbyshire
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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{Masks are pulled off}
Velma, Fred, Daphne and Shaggy in Chorus say "THE GLOBAL ELITE"
"And we would've gotten away with it if it hadn't been for you meddlin' plebs!"
And we all see the cheap fake costumes that we used to think were REAL monsters....
(I have been struck by this allegory before because my kids are mad on Scooby Doo at the moment....)
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Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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kytheria
New Poster
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ooh I think I've started something here! Chuckle. "And we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for the pesky liberal media."
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Jim
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 294
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Campaigners - "Look, it was The Globalists all along!"
Global Elite Nutcases - "Pesky campaigners"
Right Andrew, like you're not nuts about Scooby Doo! Come to think of it you do look a lot like Shaggy ... or is that Raggy?
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Andrew Johnson
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Irunno!
| Description: |
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Download |
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hehe.mp3 |
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6.02 KB |
| Downloaded: |
616 Time(s) |
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emil
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: where's the smoking gun? |
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I don't see any smoking gun here. On 9/11 there are some seriously odd things, like WTC7, but it looks like we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel regarding 7/7.
Car park tickets, return tickets: It makes sense to do these things for 2 reasons:
1. to act as normally as possible in the run-up to the act.
2. in case of failure, they can just catch the train back, get their car, and go home.
Bombs detonating at about the same time: doesn't indicate anything. It's easy to synchronise watches. Or there could have been timers. Don't see the significance...
Bomb sites looking like the bombs were under the floor: this is probably what happens when bombs are detonated at floor level.
Train times: we don't know that the timestamp on the camera is accurate. Seems like they took the 7.24 train (or whatever it was, i cant remember), and that the 7.40 was a mistake. Or they took the midland mainline, or the times given in the email were wrong. In fact in some ways this confusion counts against the conspiracy theories, as if these guys couldn't in fact travel from luton to london in the manner suggested, then whoever was concocting this evidence was totally stupid. I mean, this would be the easiest thing in the world to get right.
Demolition van next to the bus: this is clearly a coincidence. Ditto the advert on the side.
As I said before, if there is evidence of a smoking gun i'll change my position. But all the evidence I've seen so far doesn't amount to one in my opinion. Now I'm not ruling out that provocateurs helped this happen, or that it was a "false flag" operation. I'm just saying that it was a suicide mission, and that the bombs were not planted beforehand.
Emil
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Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: Re: where's the smoking gun? |
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| emil wrote: | I'm just saying that it was a suicide mission, and that the bombs were not planted beforehand.
Emil |
There is not a shred of evidence to support your claims, why you lying?
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insidejob
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Posts: 475
Location: North London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Official 7/7 story makes no sense |
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Emil,
It seems to me that speculating that 7/7 was a conspiracy based on the available evidence is perfectly valid and necessary. If it cannot be reasonably argued that 7/7 could not be a conspiracy then rejecting that argument is not valid. So, to understand your position I’d be interested in knowing your reflections on a number of 7/7 issues.
We in the West know about suicide bombing from Palestine where suicide bombers see their attacks as part of an anti-colonial struggle. Given that the ‘7/7 suicide bombers’ were not brought up in Palestine but the UK, why would they blew themselves up in order to kill others in the name of Muslim suffering? Why was it necessary for them to commit suicide?
We are supposed to believe that the following equation led to suicide bombing: UK Muslims+Islamophobia+poverty+alienation+global Muslim suffering+Western imperialism+Umma+fundamentalist Islam=suicide bomb revenge attack on Westerners. Given that all but Umma and fundamentalist Islam applies to thousands of UK Muslims, what is it about the four that led them to suicide revenge attacks? Or are you saying that there are thousands of potential suicide bombers in the UK?
Could you explain why it is that we are supposed to believe that ‘Umma’ led the four to kill because Umma means Muslim loyalty to the world community of Muslims and the need to act on Muslim suffering but also believe that Muslims in Iraq hate one another so much they are on the edge of a civil war? Given that the four must have know that Muslims in Iraq were supposedly killing one another, why Islam mean they would kill themselves and others because of what the West is doing in Iraq?
Did the four have any objective or objectives other than an entirely emotional revenge attack? Does an emotional revenge attack square with rational planning that the suicide operation required?
I suspect that the answers to these questions that most people who support the suicide bomb have is that ‘devout Muslims are inclined to mental illness’. Yet, they also believe that these same mentally ill suicide bombers are more intelligent, rational and more resourceful than most people. If you know why this makes sense, please tell us.
insidejob
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: Re: where's the smoking gun? |
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| emil wrote: |
Bomb sites looking like the bombs were under the floor: this is probably what happens when bombs are detonated at floor level.
Emil |
If detonated under floor, the floor will be pushed up round hole and floor tiles etc near the hole might fly upwards (as described by witnesses).
If detonated above the floor, the floor will be pushed down around any hole made by bomb.
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kytheria
New Poster
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Inside Job on the way we are being led to believe that all Muslims are mad. We are constantly being shown images of Muslims going bonkers in the streets with the chest beating and flag burning, it's just propaganda. I have quite a few Muslim mates and funnily enough they are quite sane. Now, with the shoe bomber, he was a loony, even his mother said so. He withdrew from society and was obviously disturbed, as is the scapecoat man in the states they are trying to blame for 9/11. But those four boys were happy, healthy, well educated lads who were looking forward to a bright future. And when do suicide bombers laugh and joke with each other on the way to certain death. It doesn't add up for me.
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emil
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Suicide: Clearly the people who knew these guys are going to say "I can't believe they did it, they were such nice people etc", this is to be expected. And unless they have all been faked, there have been quite a few palestinian suicide bombers, who were muslims.
Bombs under/on the floor: I'm not sure it's clear at all what the wreckage would look like in either situation (we should get some evidence on this). And are no "floor tiles" on tube trains, the floor is made from metal. (wood on old trains)
The problem I've got is this. I don't know what happened on 9/11 but there's some real problems with the official explanation that point towards a conspiracy. With 7/7 there are some oddities, but I don't feel (at the moment) that there's enough oddities to make a planted-bomb the most likely.
With 9/11 it seems really unlikely that Hanni Hanjour could have piloted the plane into the pentagon. But it is really easy to walk onto a train and detonate a bomb. (Assuming you have a bomb of course.)
I think it's entirely possible that it was a "false flag" operation, with MI5/whoever providing the military explosives.
Emil
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insidejob
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 475
Location: North London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Who are the mad conspiracy theorists? |
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There still needs to be an explanation of the four suicide bombers that is not dependent on a ridiculous theory that Muslim fundamentalists are mad, intelligent, resourceful, well trained and stupid.
The only way family and friends wouldn’t have noticed they had mad fundamentalist suicide bombers on their hands as if the four had the training of secret service undercover agents. Or they were either in on it or stupid.
People believe that suicide bombing in the UK makes sense not because ‘Muslims do it in Palestine and Iraq’ but it because they unthinkingly accept silly propaganda. When last did Cherie Blair say that she’s not surprised that Muslims in Yorkshire become suicide bombers? But she did after visiting Palestine. That’s because Palestine is not only thousands of miles from Leeds and Bradford but also because it’s different from Leeds and Bradford.
For Palestinians, suicide bombing is a military tactic used against a well-armed and protected enemy not a religious duty – unless Palestinians have all become Wahabbis without anyone noticing. So, what was there on the London Underground that forced the four to become suicide bombers in order to ensure success for the operation? Do travellers get frisked by Mossad-trained ticket collectors armed with Uzis?
Whereas Iraq is simply more evidence of how silly is the Left/Milan Rai/MI5 explanation of the motivation of the bombers. As if the four didn’t think it may not be worth blowing themselves up for Iraqi Muslims who were, according to conventional wisdom, mad people busy trying to murder one another. And while their hero, Osama - the Umma is so sacred - Bin Laden was encouraging Iraqis to destroy their own country through civil war. But perhaps the bombers were mad and stupid.
If people don’t except the MI5 conspiracy theory, it is far more rational to believe that Pakistan secret service did it. The bombers behaved as if they had extensive training. And, three bombers had re-orientation and training at extremist Madrassas, all of which are run by Pakistan intelligence (ISI). And there is an example of an LSE-educated, UK Muslim, Al-Qaida extremist in Siad Sheik, who is in jail for killing the journalist Daniel Pearl. Except Indian intelligence regard him as an ISI agent because when they had him in jail it was ISI agents who represented him. ISI, of course, works with the CIA, which makes 7/7 a CIA-ISI operation. But that would be paranoid thinking, wouldn’t it?
But it’s not paranoid to believe that thousands of UK Muslims you live next door to, work with and buy from have suddenly become potential, well-trained, mad suicide bombers because they ‘hate Western freedoms’ and don’t like the Western invasion of a country thousands of miles away, is it?
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catfish
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Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I quite agree, until proven guilty, these Yorkshire lads should be treated as nice people and we shouldn't believe that they did it. Being dead is not proof of guilt.
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kytheria
New Poster
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just to throw a rather odd spanner in the works here. And I like to keep an open mind. But David (Lizard) Icke thinks they were the victims of mind control. Now I'm no expert, but I have seen documents showing there have been mind control experiments done within the military. Just thought I'd pop that in.
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