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Poacher
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: South East UK
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just want to add that I have been watching the sky for a long while now and have seen many, many examples of chemtrails, mostly over the south coast and London but also in Cheshire.
It is utter madness to deny it once you witness a really good example!
For a clonking set of chemtrails vids have a look here. . . http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=skywatch |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm confused. Atmospheric conditions exist which allow jet exhaust to form into plumes which spread across the sky, so how is anyone determining the difference between naturally spreading contrails, and "chemtrails" which have the exact same appearance and behaviour as these contrails?
Why do chemtrails only ever appear during the conditions in which these types of contrail are predicted to appear?
How do you propose to prove that "chemtrails" are in fact that, and not the naturally occurring spreading contrails?
To explain what I'm getting at:
Imagine it's a cold day. You get snow when the temperature is about 0C, and you have precipitation. So we can predict when it will snow, because we know about the humidity and the temperature. Then someone comes along and says, "that's not snow, that's mind control dust". Wouldn't you think, hang on, how come this mind control dust only appears when it's cold and damp, the exact same conditions for snow? To which he replies "well, that's because the government only spreads mind control dust when the conditions are right to disguise it as snow". So you'd probably think, hold on, mind control dust has the same behaviour and appears in the same conditions as snow, and has no effects, the same as snow.
See the problem is, your chemtrail planes leave chemtrails at the same time that other planes at the same height are leaving contrails, unless all planes have chemtrail dispensers. Then you might want to look at some photos of planes and tell me where these are. Unless they are in the fuel, in which case you'd have special fuel for chemtrail days. And then the ground crew would be in on it, because they'd have to get the chemtrail bowser out of the garage, or you'd be leaving chemtrails all the time if you always used the same fuel.
There must be someone on the ground filling up the chemtrail dispenser on the plane, so why not take a trip to Gatwick or Heathrow (or Manston, Lydd, Luton etc) and watch the planes. They don't hide them at any time, you can see them on the tarmac being refuelled and loaded, so you should be able to spot the chemtrail loading crew.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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paul wright
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Poacher
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: South East UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: | I'm confused. Atmospheric conditions exist which allow jet exhaust to form into plumes which spread across the sky, so how is anyone determining the difference between naturally spreading contrails, and "chemtrails" which have the exact same appearance and behaviour as these contrails?
Why do chemtrails only ever appear during the conditions in which these types of contrail are predicted to appear?
How do you propose to prove that "chemtrails" are in fact that, and not the naturally occurring spreading contrails? |
Well, until you have researched this or seen them for yourself of course you will not understand. Chemtrails do NOT only appear during conditions of predicted contrails. Contrails do NOT form into clouds.
Many people (including me) have seen chemtrails in many differing conditions and also being produced while 'normal' flights are operating with normal contrails.
The evidence is 100% sound they exist, the only question is what they are doing. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Johnny post in critics corner and only critics corner or be banned. If you want start a chemtrails theories are crazy be my guest but do it CC
Thanks |
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Ignatz
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | Johnny post in critics corner and only critics corner or be banned. If you want start a chemtrails theories are crazy be my guest but do it CC
Thanks |
Please be consistent.
I was given "permission" by a mod to post on a non-9/11 subject in the GF, simply because it was a non-9/11 subject.
Either allow it or shift the non-9/11 stuff to a "General Mysteries" forum.
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Graham
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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For Patrick Brown, Johnny Pixels, Ignatz, and all other Naysayers.
Would you be any more convinced if I posted up a link to a Senate Bill, specifically referring to Chemtrails for use in Weather Modification?
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Graham
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not the exact link I was looking for, but it'll do.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:
| Quote: | Space Preservation Act of 2001 (Introduced in House)
HR 2977 IH
107th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 2977
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001
Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned |
| Quote: | (B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons. |
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"All we are asking for is a new International investigation into 9/11" - Willie Rodriguez |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | Johnny post in critics corner and only critics corner or be banned. If you want start a chemtrails theories are crazy be my guest but do it CC
Thanks |
In your own words:
| Quote: | | We have a (hopefully small) section on the public forum which is explicitly for posters who wish to challenge and debate the assumption of the campaign that a further investigation is essential |
From Moderator Andrew Johnson:
| Quote: |
The people who run this board, and the majority of its members REJECT the official account of 9/11. This is the reason this forum exists. Posts which try to ridicule, reject or deny evidence or support the official story will be moved to a special area of the forum when moderators have the time to pick them up.
We welcome questions as to why we reject the official accounts, but would politely ask that these be asked AFTER as much as possible of the evidence linked on the home page has been carefully reviewed and analysed by people who want to ask these questions. i.e. we are all volunteers with a limited budget of time and so it is easier for curious people to review the available evidence in order to answer questions they may have BEFORE posting them on the forum.
If you are supporting the official account of 9/11, which we reject, your posts will be moved to a special area of the forum called "Critics Corner" and those who are interested can debate with you there. |
Chemtrails are not part of 9/11, therefore I am not questioning the official account of 9/11. If you want to ban me for not breaking the rules, go ahead.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Poacher wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: | I'm confused. Atmospheric conditions exist which allow jet exhaust to form into plumes which spread across the sky, so how is anyone determining the difference between naturally spreading contrails, and "chemtrails" which have the exact same appearance and behaviour as these contrails?
Why do chemtrails only ever appear during the conditions in which these types of contrail are predicted to appear?
How do you propose to prove that "chemtrails" are in fact that, and not the naturally occurring spreading contrails? |
Well, until you have researched this or seen them for yourself of course you will not understand. Chemtrails do NOT only appear during conditions of predicted contrails. Contrails do NOT form into clouds. |
Well firstly, contrails are only predicted, they are not a definite event. You should refer to the Appleman chart, which has been produced to give a guideline as to when contrails are likely to occur.
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/resources/activities/appleman_teach er.html
Contrails DO form into clouds. They are described as persistant spreading contrails.
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/resources/Contrail_Formation_Englis h.jpg
| Quote: | | Many people (including me) have seen chemtrails in many differing conditions and also being produced while 'normal' flights are operating with normal contrails. |
Yes, contrails occur during different conditions on the ground, but the weather at high altitude differs greatly to that on the ground. Aircraft you see can be around 8 miles away. 8 miles away on the ground you can have snow in one area and sunshine in the next.
from the same website as the other links:
| Quote: | Q: There were two planes in the sky. One was flying north/south and left a persistent contrail. The other plane was flying east/west and did not leave a contrail. Why did one plane leave a contrail, but the other did not?
A: The two planes were most likely flying at different altitudes, so that the north-south flight path contained more moisture or was at a lower temperature than the east-west flight-path. The amount of moisture in the atmosphere can change considerably in a short vertical distance. It depends strongly on the origin of the particular air mass. There are also variations in the efficiency of aircraft engines, which can affect whether or not a particular plane will leave a contrail. |
| Quote: | | The evidence is 100% sound they exist, the only question is what they are doing. |
Persistant spreading contrails exist. Chemtrails as you imagine them do not.
Try reading through this site. It is aimed more at children, but that's not meant as an insult.
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/
There are examples of the appleman chart and how to predict the various types of contrail, as well as links to sites where you can find out the high altitude weather. You'll soon see that the types of contrail match the weather conditions at height.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Graham wrote: | Not the exact link I was looking for, but it'll do.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:
| Quote: | Space Preservation Act of 2001 (Introduced in House)
HR 2977 IH
107th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 2977
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001
Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned |
| Quote: | (B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons. |
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I've been shown this before. You'll notice it also includes extraterrestrial weapons. These don't exist, but when making legislation it pays to think of the future. I'm not saying that you can't create chemtrials, because you can. But what you see in the sky isn't a chemtrail.
To release a chemical into the air and have it be effective means you have to keep the concentration up. Dropping it from 8 miles high means that by the time it reaches the ground it is no longer over where you dropped it, and it is so diluted it is harmless. Chemicals need to be dropped at low altitude, in high concentrations.
Like this:
These are aircraft in the Vietnam War dropping agent orange onto the jungle below to defoliate the trees. This is a chemtrail. This is most likely what is meant by the legislation above. Notice how low the planes are flying in order to hit their target, and hit it with a high enough dose.
I mean, just think, you see a plane at 8 miles up, leaving a trail say 5 miles long, spreading out to be 5 miles wide, (these are just estimates). The volume of air that will spread through is 8 x 5 x 5 miles. That's 200 cubic miles of air.
That's 83363636500000 litres of air. To get a concentration of one part per billion, you'd need 83,364 litres of chemical dropped. Where are these planes carrying all this?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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James C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Chemtrails - fact or fiction
Fiction |
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Johnny Pixels
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Just for clarity, an articulated petrol tanker, the sort that you see on the road, carries 40,000 litres, so that's two of those in a plane. For one part per billion.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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utopiated
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rodin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have some beauty pıcs from over our house ın the Shıre. Must post someday. Took me a whıle but now I am pretty convınced there are contraıls and there are chemtraıls. None of the latter where I am at present. Real clouds are a revelatıon...
So THAT'S what the sky should look lıke...
Oh - and Pıxells ıs a waste of space. He supports every establıshment lıe. Probably has a lıst...
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James C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| utopiated wrote: | | James C wrote: | Chemtrails - fact or fiction
Fiction |
My what a piercing insight into this phenomena. On par with Sun journalism. |
I have entered into this debate on many occasions only to find a whole wealth of meaningless and factually inacurate arguments. I even had a one to one discussion with Andrew Johnson on this subject who ran away from my questions faster than a speeding aircraft.
I notice you add nothing to the debate here which is common for chemtrail enthusiasts. Only Johnny Pixels seems to make sense so far and he tends to work for the other side.
One question, and this is one Mr Johnson dodged. If the poisoning of us mortals by the PTB is true, then why use a handful of aeroplanes travelling at high altitudes when a fleet of lorries driving through our major cities could spray more of us faster and more accurately at ground level?
Isn't this argument just a case of making something sinister out of nothing, as usual? All this Illuminati, PTB, masons nonsense gets on my tits. |
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John White
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pixels cracks me up:
Its essentially "Chem trails can't exist, becuase I say so, even though I hav'nt seen any and cant know what goes on everywhere, but anyone saying they have is just a loony. Even if I did see one:I'd tell myself I'd seen something else. My government would certainly tell me if they were spraying stuff around the place, just like they asked the vietnamese for permission to spray them with agent orange back in nam. Ha! I'm special! I'd never be treated like someone who doesnt matter!"
Poor deluded man
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James C
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | Pixels cracks me up:
Its essentially "Chem trails can't exist, becuase I say so, even though I hav'nt seen any and cant know what goes on everywhere, but anyone saying they have is just a loony. Even if I did see one:I'd tell myself I'd seen something else. My government would certainly tell me if they were spraying stuff around the place, just like they asked the vietnamese for permission to spray them with agent orange back in nam. Ha! I'm special! I'd never be treated like someone who doesnt matter!"
Poor deluded man |
Hi John,
Do you have personal proof that chemtrails exist? What chemicals are being sprayed and for how long? Why are there so many trails over the countryside when a low population density prevails in these parts?
Can you answer my question above about aeroplanes versus other modes of transport?
So many questions and so few answers ever given. |
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London Mick
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Posts: 139
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have noticed in the past three days that there have been no chemtrails in the skies over London until sunset this evening I saw some in the west.
We have had some glorious sunny days with rain. Big cumulous clouds in the sky and huge patches of blue. Not a chemtrail to be seen yet all commercial jet flights have continued! No unmarked white planes speeding across the skies for a few days. Wonderful.
They are giving us a break for some reason. My point is......all normal commercial flights are still flying on the scheduled pathways yet there are no chemtrails so these trails are not being left by commercial flights.
Perhaps we are not being poisoned. It has been said that they are putting this stuff into the sky to enable HAARP to be used more efficiently or even to make the atmosphere more conductive for the emissions coming from all those "Phone" masts that are zapping us all over the place.
Having noted James C's contribution on this topic and others. He goes down on the list to be ignored in future. |
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utopiated
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Location: UK Midlands
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have entered into this debate on many occasions only to find a whole wealth of meaningless and factually inacurate arguments. |
You've probably done what most people on the interWeb have done and that is just create b*ll*x looped arguments on forums. This isn't research. The fact you can reduce something with mountains of data to a true or false response tells us you've not looked into anything.
| Quote: | | I notice you add nothing to the debate here which is common for chemtrail enthusiasts. |
Thanks for that. I must work harder.
| Quote: | | One question, and this is one Mr Johnson dodged. If the poisoning of us mortals by the PTB is true, then why use a handful of aeroplanes travelling at high altitudes when a fleet of lorries driving through our major cities could spray more of us faster and more accurately at ground level? |
Again - you've fallen into the pit of binary solutions. I don't believe it is an intentional poisoning system. Not that I don't think some hi-level cabals would consider this.
| Quote: | | Isn't this argument just a case of making something sinister out of nothing, as usual? All this Illuminati, PTB, masons nonsense gets on my tits. |
And I'd bet you were one of the many, up until 2006. who were saying the same thing about certain buildings coming down in the US in 2001. "Stop making something sinister out of nothing..."
Have you or Johnny Prixels looked at the satellite shots? I was discussing this with someone the other day - the fact that we're so zoned-in to our own day-2-day existence, planes can formation fly the skies above our heads and make lattice-like structures and 99% of us filter it out!!
Andrew J's Lattice formation - Borrowash - still the best demonstration of grid patterns used by aerosol spraying.
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http://exopolitics.org.uk
http://chemtrailsUK.net
http://alienfalseflagagenda.net
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Last edited by utopiated on Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:06 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Newspeak International
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Location: South Essex
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| London Mick wrote: | I have noticed in the past three days that there have been no chemtrails in the skies over London until sunset this evening I saw some in the west.
We have had some glorious sunny days with rain. Big cumulous clouds in the sky and huge patches of blue. Not a chemtrail to be seen yet all commercial jet flights have continued! No unmarked white planes speeding across the skies for a few days. Wonderful.
They are giving us a break for some reason. My point is......all normal commercial flights are still flying on the scheduled pathways yet there are no chemtrails so these trails are not being left by commercial flights.
Perhaps we are not being poisoned. It has been said that they are putting this stuff into the sky to enable HAARP to be used more efficiently or even to make the atmosphere more conductive for the emissions coming from all those "Phone" masts that are zapping us all over the place.
Having noted James C's contribution on this topic and others. He goes down on the list to be ignored in future. |
I sure noticed the natural skies over s/essex in the last few days,a few contrails of short duration as to be expected.
Guess if jp and jc are correct those massive streaks in the sky I've be pointing out to my colleages,must be figments of my paranoid imagination, and theirs! |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Trouble with people like Pixels, and lately johndoe,(and I would venture the seemingly-late Patrick Brown, though he and his running-mate telecasterisation seem to be mostly about generating despondency)) is that they are confidence tricksters of the traditional type, i.e. they equip themselves with the essential knowledge to cover the bases and the government-sponsored rebuttal arguments and then pose as knowledgeable and "scientific" with utmost confidence. So for example Pixels posts this postprandial faux-scientific website from Nasa, created to specifically provide "evidence" to rebuff the chemtrails exponents, the persistant contrail theory known only since the mid to late nineties, and with absolutely no photographic evidence from before this period to back it up. He presents this to "prove" his case - but it's charlatan nonsense
These people keep coming and one replaces another,but they really aren't worth debating with as they are entirely about tying people down in circular argument, with false scientism, trying to get people to distrust their own perceptions and sense of how things are.
Curses on them
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johndoe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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"So for example Pixels posts this postprandial faux-scientific website from Nasa"
are you really going to try and debate against NASA? yeah....good luck with that. |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoe wrote: | "So for example Pixels posts this postprandial faux-scientific website from Nasa"
are you really going to try and debate against NASA? yeah....good luck with that. |
Our whole debate is with these kind of fake sources
Good luck? - oh yeah thanks - we will win in despite of your sorts
Nasa was created out of a core of German Nazi rocket scientists and there's nothing to suggest it has changed its values
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paul wright
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Anyway folks. I won't too much accuse of shill because that's bad practice
But I still await some evidence, pure, bold, factual, photographic, - of these "persistant contrails" before the mid to late nineties.
Let's have a persistant contrail from a 1986 jet, a 1973 jet, a 1968 jet - something please just to cast a little doubt in my mind
I've been asking for this misperceived chemtrail info for the past 4 years and noone has provided any satisfactory answer in visual terms up to now
Perhaps you can
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andrewwatson
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I am confused.
I thought Critic's Corner was for those who question 911 scepticism.
Obviously I missed something, but I never knew Chemtrails were a key component in 911 truth. |
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DeFecToR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: |
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NBC4 did a fairly well balanced two part new report on 'chemtrails'. Also features a little mention of the slime that can sometimes be left after spraying that i myself, and many others have witnessed in the past.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz2TPzEY-O4
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKT0VflkoUE
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James C
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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This is why conspiracy theorists get such a bad name. All the tosh that is spouted by fertile minds desperate to lay all the ills of the world on the PTB.
Suddenly, I'm surrounded by weather and aviation experts, all clamouring to attack anyone who asks for the simple proof and gets shown crappy photographs which prove nothing.
Yawn Yawn!
Maybe we should contact these guys. There are thousands and thousands of aircraft engineers globally. In fact I have friend who is one. So I'm sure they should know who is maintaining the equipment needed to spray us all. I think at least one of those would have whistleblown such an operation if true. |
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James C
Major Poster
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| utopiated wrote: | | And I'd bet you were one of the many, up until 2006. who were saying the same thing about certain buildings coming down in the US in 2001. "Stop making something sinister out of nothing... |
I discovered the 9/11 conspiracy theories in 2003. They made and continue to make total sense to me. As a former architect, I had been asking the question since day one about how the twin towers could have collapsed as they did.
But I don't believe the neo-cons did this for fun or to create a prison planet. I don't think they care about the common man/women in the street but I don't believe they have a masterplan to make prisoners of us all either. 9/11 was about oil and US imperialism at a time when energy supplies are running out. Google check Afghanistan and Caspian and see what you get. |
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Graham
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 350
Location: bucks
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: |
I've been shown this before. You'll notice it also includes extraterrestrial weapons. These don't exist, but when making legislation it pays to think of the future. I'm not saying that you can't create chemtrials, because you can. But what you see in the sky isn't a chemtrail.
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"All we are asking for is a new International investigation into 9/11" - Willie Rodriguez |
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