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Johnny Pixels
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: Non-Critics Posting Inside Critics Corner |
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What's that all about?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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johndoe
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| it's about not letting anyone debate the truth movement. this way they can survive in their own little bubble with no questions asked. now why would such a small movement not want anyone to question it? answers on a postcard. |
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Micpsi
Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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You really don't understand, do you?  This forum is a meeting place for those who question the official account of 9/11 and 7/7. Critics Corner is for those who accept it. I am sure it is frustrating for you to prowl and rage in a small corner like a trapped animal that is increasingly becoming endangered, as more and more people discover that they were sold a lie. But if you cannot respect the rules of this site because don't agree with the spirit of this forum, you know where the door is. Whether you like it or not, you are becoming the minority as public polls are revealing. Directing sarcasm at 9/11 truthers simply does not cut it any more. Get used to it.  |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoe wrote: | | it's about not letting anyone debate the truth movement. this way they can survive in their own little bubble with no questions asked. now why would such a small movement not want anyone to question it? answers on a postcard. |
That's not true John is it? The idea of not allowing non-critics to post inside critics corner was your suggestion for how the site's moderation should change.
It is not because the 9/11 truth movement refuses to engage its critics. There are plenty of places both in cyber space and in the real world where the 9/11 truth movement do so including inside critics corner.
There are also many examples of public forums or spaces where the 9/11 truth movement is not allowed to voice its opinions openly.
The reason why the forum sections outside of CC are not open to critics is because it is the view of the majority of forum users that this is the way they would like it.
So I'm afraid it is case of like it or leave it. No one forces you to post here.
AS for us being a small movement, opinion polls suggest otherwise and shows support is growing.
On the other thread you asked why I consider you a critic. One reason is because you refer to the truth movement as they or them. Go figure |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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So if a club of people got together, and started telling each other, and anyone that visited the club, that a certain story was the truth, but then wouldn't let anyone come to the club to present the other view, you don't think there's anything unhealthy with that?
Now for example in the moon hoax thread, (which I'm picking because it's not 9/11), there were claims that the astronauts suits would overheat because air conditioning would not work in space. Sources were quoted for this and everything, so to a passer by, it would seem that this was true. However, a bit of critic intervention showed that astronaut suits rely on radiative cooling, which does work in space. Yeah it was me, and I'm blowing my own trumpet, but do you really think that the truth movement benefits by not having anyone question it?
Take beam weapons. Criticism was allowed on that, because it was clearly nuts, and it's shown that Judy Woods is a fruitcake. So why can't critics comment on the "core" ideas of 9/11? I mean, we're proving you wrong at every step, but that's the whole point. By showing you where you're wrong you can learn, and then come to see that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. You may not like it but it's the truth.
Imagine being in a club that believes vaccination doesn't work, imagine not letting any doctors in to criticise your point of view, but only letting people who believe vaccination doesn't work talk. See how that could be damaging? See how one sidedness doesn't benefit you?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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ZUCO
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Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: |
I mean, we're proving you wrong at every step, but that's the whole point. By showing you where you're wrong you can learn, and then come to see that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. You may not like it but it's the truth.
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That's a joke right? The truth movement is growing because people are seeing that the official version doesn't add up. If you want to criticize points made in the general forum you can start a new topic right here in Critic's Corner. The general message from the 9/11 truth movement from what I gather is for people to do their own research and make up their own minds. What's wrong with that?
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"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" --Benjamin Franklin--
ZUCO |
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Ignatz
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ZUCO wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
I mean, we're proving you wrong at every step, but that's the whole point. By showing you where you're wrong you can learn, and then come to see that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. You may not like it but it's the truth.
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That's a joke right? The truth movement is growing because people are seeing that the official version doesn't add up. If you want to criticize points made in the general forum you can start a new topic right here in Critic's Corner. The general message from the 9/11 truth movement from what I gather is for people to do their own research and make up their own minds. What's wrong with that? |
From your point of view, Zuco, critics should be welcome. Like pike in a lake, they weed out the feeble and lame. Beam weapons, pyroclastic flow, steel dustification etc etc. All total cr#p, as Johnny intimates. Total cr#p that erodes your support among the fence-sitters.
Critics are your friends, if only to weed out the major weaknesses in your theories.
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ZUCO
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Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | | ZUCO wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
I mean, we're proving you wrong at every step, but that's the whole point. By showing you where you're wrong you can learn, and then come to see that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. You may not like it but it's the truth.
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That's a joke right? The truth movement is growing because people are seeing that the official version doesn't add up. If you want to criticize points made in the general forum you can start a new topic right here in Critic's Corner. The general message from the 9/11 truth movement from what I gather is for people to do their own research and make up their own minds. What's wrong with that? |
From your point of view, Zuco, critics should be welcome. Like pike in a lake, they weed out the feeble and lame. Beam weapons, pyroclastic flow, steel dustification etc etc. All total cr#p, as Johnny intimates. Total cr#p that erodes your support among the fence-sitters.
Critics are your friends, if only to weed out the major weaknesses in your theories. |
I think the people who really search for the truth can figure out for themselves. Critic's don't weed anything out, they criticize every aspect and disagree with the general view held on this forum at every opportunity.
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"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" --Benjamin Franklin--
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ZUCO wrote: | | Ignatz wrote: | | ZUCO wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
I mean, we're proving you wrong at every step, but that's the whole point. By showing you where you're wrong you can learn, and then come to see that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. You may not like it but it's the truth.
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That's a joke right? The truth movement is growing because people are seeing that the official version doesn't add up. If you want to criticize points made in the general forum you can start a new topic right here in Critic's Corner. The general message from the 9/11 truth movement from what I gather is for people to do their own research and make up their own minds. What's wrong with that? |
From your point of view, Zuco, critics should be welcome. Like pike in a lake, they weed out the feeble and lame. Beam weapons, pyroclastic flow, steel dustification etc etc. All total cr#p, as Johnny intimates. Total cr#p that erodes your support among the fence-sitters.
Critics are your friends, if only to weed out the major weaknesses in your theories. |
I think the people who really search for the truth can figure out for themselves. Critic's don't weed anything out, they criticize every aspect and disagree with the general view held on this forum at every opportunity. |
But if we use the example of the cooling on space suits, I pointed out that the article it came from was talking nonsense, and it was, and it was accepted by the person who posted it.
Would another moon hoax believer have researched it, or would they have just let it slide?
Do truthers check everything other truthers say, or do they just let it pass because they're a fellow truther?
I'll always check anything that looks remotely doubtful, because I like to learn new things, and there's no point learning something if you learn it wrong.
We critics don't disagree to cause trouble, we do it because you're wrong. See the scientific community for an example. Someone releases a paper, other scientists review it to make sure it is factual and correct. In the truth movement, someone says something, and it goes. How is that a good policy?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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There is truth in what you say pixels, but then that is the point of critics corner. Those that find it useful to get get the counter perspective on any one issue or point of fact can enter the fray here. And those that don't, don't.
It is not as if it is a giant echo chamber in the other forum sections. There is disagreement amongst us and it is not like there is a party line in the main sections of the forum other than the 9/11 commission report is a catelogue of lies, distortions and omissions.
All the 9/11 truth movement collectively agrees upon is that OCT of 9/11 is unproven bs and it requires a thorough independent criminal investigation. Independent does not mean a bunch of cronies appointed by Bush or an 'investigation' that assumes the OCT is essentially true and proceed to conduct the inquiry behind closed doors and fail to answer the majority of the questions posed by family campaigners.
Face it. 9/11 stinks just like so many other episodes in the US's history and the world is waking up to this reality. |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: | | Imagine being in a club that believes vaccination doesn't work, imagine not letting any doctors in to criticise your point of view, but only letting people who believe vaccination doesn't work talk. See how that could be damaging? See how one sidedness doesn't benefit you? |
Imagine being in a world where thousands of people were murdered and there was a cover-up to protect the murderers which was so overwhelming, and orchestrated by people who had immense power, that those who tried to get the truth out by getting a proper investigation were fighting at a massive disadvantage. Imagine then that the supporters of the mass murderers and their lies claimed that in the interests of "fairness" that they should be allowed to foul the movement by muddying the waters to directly scupper the stated aims of the movement. See how not being focused on the aims of the movement to accommodate the evildoers request for "fairness" would be utterly counter-productive. Still the evildoers lickspittles could nonetheless be accommodated in say... a "Critic's Corner" for instance to show some implausible "balance" and allow them their say without being able to mess up the message. Not if I had my way. |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: | | Imagine being in a club that believes vaccination doesn't work, imagine not letting any doctors in to criticise your point of view, but only letting people who believe vaccination doesn't work talk. See how that could be damaging? See how one sidedness doesn't benefit you? |
Imagine being in a world where thousands of people were murdered and there was a cover-up to protect the murderers which was so overwhelming, and orchestrated by people who had immense power, that those who tried to get the truth out by getting a proper investigation were fighting at a massive disadvantage. Imagine then that the supporters of the mass murderers and their lies claimed that in the interests of "fairness" that they should be allowed to foul the movement by muddying the waters to directly scupper the stated aims of the movement. See how not being focused on the aims of the movement to accommodate the evildoers request for "fairness" would be utterly counter-productive. Still the evildoers lickspittles could nonetheless be accommodated in say... a "Critic's Corner" for instance to show some implausible "balance" and allow them their say without being able to mess up the message. Not if I had my way. |
Takes a lot of imagination to be in the truth movement. My example was true though.
Mass hysteria surrounded MMR vaccinations recently when it was claimed that they were linked with autism. Parents came forward making connections between the vaccine and their children having autism, even though they had no proof for this whatsoever. Their argument was, "my child had the MMR jab, my child has autism, link!" They didn't listen to doctors who had proof that the jab was safe and had no link to autism. In effect they formed a parents group that "knew best".
Now look at the truth movement. You've decided on your outcome, 9/11 was an inside job, based on the fact that you don't understand structural mechanics or how to interpret video evidence. You "know best" because the experts aren't telling you what you want to hear. You need something to blame for 9/11, and you've picked the government, the same way parents needed something to blame for autism, and they picked MMR.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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blackcat
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Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| So please do tell - how much time do you devote to posting on threads relating to MMR and Autism in an effort to disavow these parents of their misunderstanding? I will wager zero! Why are you here? |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | So please do tell - how much time do you devote to posting on threads relating to MMR and Autism in an effort to disavow these parents of their misunderstanding? I will wager zero! Why are you here? |
You're right, zero, but that's because I'm an engineer, I don't have much in the way of medical knowledge. I can handle physics and maths ok though.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Out of interest what kind of engineer?
It is also incorrect that the case for an independent investigation is based on engineering and video analysis alone. There is much much more to the truth movements case, but then you know this. |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | Out of interest what kind of engineer?
It is also incorrect that the case for an independent investigation is based on engineering and video analysis alone. There is much much more to the truth movements case, but then you know this. |
My degree is in automotive engineering, but I work for a consultant engineering company, currently in the traffic and safety department.
I do know what the truth movement basis its case on yes. Misunderstandings.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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Mr-Bridger
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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That means my brother in law who has a degree in auto engineering and who works for the Lotus race team must be a expert on 9/11, i`ll ask him for his views next time i see him
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: | | You're right, zero, |
Thought so! Says it all. |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: | | You're right, zero, |
Thought so! Says it all. |
Everyone is entitled to post on what they like, surely? I have spent a lot of time posting not only on the MMR vaccine but on vaccination in general, which has some passionate and ill-informed opponents. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have spent a lot of time posting not only on the MMR vaccine but on vaccination in general, |
Which is not zero. So why does someone who makes the comparison with vaccination and 9/11 post on the latter but not the former? Hypocrisy? A hidden agenda? I think we know! |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | I have spent a lot of time posting not only on the MMR vaccine but on vaccination in general, |
Which is not zero. So why does someone who makes the comparison with vaccination and 9/11 post on the latter but not the former? Hypocrisy? A hidden agenda? I think we know! |
I think we should accept what he says, he feels himself qualified to comment on engineering subjects, but not medical. As I am neither a medic not an engineer, I am equally well qualified on both subjects! |
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | I have spent a lot of time posting not only on the MMR vaccine but on vaccination in general, |
Which is not zero. So why does someone who makes the comparison with vaccination and 9/11 post on the latter but not the former? Hypocrisy? A hidden agenda? I think we know! |
So I have to post on everything I disagree with to prove I don't have hidden agenda?
I could have lied and said that I did spend time on it, but I chose not to.
| Mr Bridger wrote: | | That means my brother in law who has a degree in auto engineering and who works for the Lotus race team must be a expert on 9/11, i`ll ask him for his views next time i see him |
Maybe you like to explain the vast difference between strutural/civil engineering and automotive engineering. I never said it made me an expert on 9/11, I said I understood engineering aspects more than medical.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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blackcat
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Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| We both know a knowledge of engineering is not required to "understand" what happened on 9/11. It seems that some knowledge of engineering blinds people to the blatantly obvious controlled demolitions and lack of a 757 at the Pentagon just for starters. What is required is at least a jot of decency and a wish to see justice done. That is not achieved by constantly reaffirming the lies of the US government by claiming a "qualified" judgement on these matters. A proper enquiry would soon clear up much of this cover-up and engineers expertise is not required to explain what happened - it is required to give a bs "explanation" of how the towers collapsed (or began collapsing) to help in the cover-up. |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | We both know a knowledge of engineering is not required to "understand" what happened on 9/11. It seems that some knowledge of engineering blinds people to the blatantly obvious controlled demolitions and lack of a 757 at the Pentagon just for starters. What is required is at least a jot of decency and a wish to see justice done. That is not achieved by constantly reaffirming the lies of the US government by claiming a "qualified" judgement on these matters. A proper enquiry would soon clear up much of this cover-up and engineers expertise is not required to explain what happened - it is required to give a bs "explanation" of how the towers collapsed (or began collapsing) to help in the cover-up. |
Ah yes, I understand now, it is the same as some knowledge of astronomy blinding people to the blatantly obvious fact that the Sun goes round the Earth, and astronomers' expertise is not required to explain that, only to give a bs explanation that it is really the other way round. |
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A Sharp Major
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 237
Location: In the van with the blacked out windows, parked outside your home.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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So much for taking a year out. I can't let this go unchallenged.
| Quote: | | That means my brother in law who has a degree in auto engineering and who works for the Lotus race team must be a expert on 9/11, i`ll ask him for his views next time i see him |
You shouldn't mock. If I read the cards correctly, truther and nineeleven.co.uk poster Snowygrouch (Calum Douglas) is an undergraduate in motorsport (automotive) engineering and he gives 'lectures' on '9/11 truth'. His engineering credentials are no barrier to his being a truther on call 'expert'. His Ipswich 'lecture' has been filmed and is linked here. If the truthers' car mechanic who can do algebra  is an engineer then so is the critics'. Sauce for the goose.
Were there really 25 at your lecture Calum?
Back to work A#maj.
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http://www.screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ |
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