Petition To Stop Britain Being Swallowed By The European Uni

[Steven Collins]

Petition To Stop Britain Being Swallowed By The European Union

'On March 25th in Berlin, Mr Blair will sign a 50 page ‘Declaration on the Future of Europe' without consulting the UK people. A binding treaty that embodies "basic laws" for 490 million people in 27 countries based on a despised constitution, rejected by voters across Europe. Nine countries with over 150 million people turned it down or, decided not to put it to the vote.

Blair alone has decided the UK will not vote. If you don’t want to be controlled by a European Federation, we must demand a national referendum NOW. It will create:

• A PERMANENT, unelected, EU president. A sole voice for Europe serving a 5 year term.

• FULL-TIME foreign and defence ministers for Europe meaning powers like China and America will by-pass Britain to speak directly to them.

• A REFORMED European parliament drawing up its own laws. Britain couldn’t veto its decisions and each member states government loses the right to "opt out" of EU laws & treaties.'

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ReferendumNOW

[Skeptic]

see this thread:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=7931

[Rory Winter]

Look, if you can stop being a Little Englander for five minutes and look at the real world. Britain has already been swallowed up by the USA. The shame of Iraq simply underlines that, the fact that two-thirds of the House of Commons recently voted for a Trident replacement (thus ensuring the UK taxpayer's massive subsidy of the US Arms Industry) shows up our banana republic status.

Behind this Al Murray style Brit anti-Europeanism exists a strong streak of an Anglo-Saxon superiority complex which would rather allow itself to be buggered by the US on a constant basis than have any truck with Continentals, or as ex-Ambassador Christopher Meyer recently put it, "To get up the arse of the Americans and to stay there."

One day, after getting over its imperialistic hangover, Brits will wake up to the fact that they are geographically, ethnically and culturally Europeans. That's the day when they'll stop referring to Europe as something 'over there' and realize that they, too, are and live in Europe.

If you don't like the EU as it is at present (who does?) then help transform it from within and not behave like US fifth-columnists.

[Leiff]

I used to be quite pro EU until I started looking into the details.

The EU has 110,000+ regulations - do you know them all?
The politicians, civil servants and police etc will all be immune from prosecution - a recipe for abuse of power!
The EU hasn't balanced its books in over a decade - a sure sign of endemic corruption.
80% of the new laws passed in the UK parliament come from the EU including ID cards and road pricing - so if we are to be rid of these things, the only way to do anything about them is to leave the EU.

I think you will find that Cameron is advocating staying in the EU and encouraging reform. If you know anything about the EU you will know that it will never reform...

Here's a question for you: Does Norway or Switzerland want to join the EU?

[Rory Winter]

I would rather join an imperfect European Federation than remain as a slave to Washington DC which is the real threat to freedom. And, as a Scots, I would rather see the 'United Kingdom' dismantled as soon as possible as it only serves to perpetuate a sense of imperialism which is long gone.

Why, in this day and age, are the US and British armies the only imperialist aggressors on the face of the planet?

PS: Are you seriously suggesting that British popular culture is not inherently xenophobic?!?!

[Busker]

[Rory Winter]

Busker, I totally agree with you about accountable administration but do not believe that dumping the EU is the way to obtain it. As a Scots, I see independence from England as the primary issue. And then the next struggle will be to ensure our Scots legislators get out of the arse of the Americans and stay out of it.

We have a better chance of doing that by allying with our fellow-Europeans than by kowtowing to anti-Europeanism.

So, you see, the problem is not as simple as English anti-Europeans might present it. The 'United Kingdom' is really a Disunited Kingdom in reality so I suggest that we first address our domestic dilemma.

I long for a European Parliament. I have worked with European Greens and know, first hand, that Brussels and Strasbourg practise far more accountability, transparency and interest in democracy than Westminster is capable of.

So, if you are really interested in those things, look first at our defacto One Party State in Westminster and its miserable trackrecord. An independent European Parliament would be a wonderful thing for democracy. That's what those who oppose it are afraid of.

[Leiff]

I think that perhaps you should have stuck with the Google Video offering (no matter how cheesy) you might have learnt something!

[Rory Winter]

The video offers nothing but low-brow propaganda meant to appeal to xenophobes. It is an insult to one's intelligence.

[Leiff]

How would you know? You didn't watch it!

[Rory Winter]

I did, for 5 minutes and that was long enough to see that it was a cheap, propaganda job like most party-political broadcasts. Five minutes was plenty long enough for that kind of nonsense.

[Leiff]

Yes it is cheesy, but where is the EU coverage from the mainstream? The BBC has been bought off by the EU so don't expect any Eurorealist programming there!

[Rory Winter]

Eh? Mainstream coverage?

The British media has never covered EU matters in much detail. As one who has lived in other EU countries, I know only too well that UK reportage of the EU is miserable.

Coming back to Britain from the Continent is like returning to a depressing time-warp. The first thing one notices is the dinginess.

The Dutch understand the British disease well. They attribute it to the insular, island mentality.

[Leiff]

[Rory Winter]

Well this conversation was some years ago.

Things have changed in Holland, it seems and I believe a lot of it is due to immigration which has made that small country feel threatened. Perhaps the reason the Dutch understand xenophobia so well is because they also have a colonial past where apartheid was a way of life.

Anyway, off for a tea break now. Ciao!

[uselesseater]

'The EU has the constitution of a dictatorship with the laws of a police state.'

How anyone can defend the idea must have been going of the information presented by our trustworthy media and politicians.


The argument that we would be better of in Europe than with the US is often trotted out by those in the media and is of course deeply fallicious.

'We don't like being allied with a big fascist power block so lets remedy that by joining our own fascist superstate so we can then thoroughly get rid of any sheds of freedom left'

If you think the US is the heart of the NWO then think on. The European system is just as much part of the same system.

It's a bit dissapointing that some people prefer to put their prejudice of 'little englanders' infront of their critical faculties.

This is what the establishment counts on for divide and rule to work.

[Rory Winter]

No Uselesseater, you have got entirely the wrong stick or you're suffering from serious delusions or both. For a start, we can't be "out" of Europe because, like it or not, we are geographically, ethnically and culturally part of the European sub-continent (which is, itself, part of Asia).

Britain lost whatever vestiges of independence its ruling-classes had when it went to the USA, cap in hand, for money and weapons to fight the Nazis. Part of the deal that a very hard-nosed US insisted upon was that Britain, in effect, handed over its Empire to US hegemony. Britain's ruling classes knew when it was beat, dropped its trousers and applied the Vaseline liberally for what has now been over half a century of unrelenting buggering by Uncle Sam.

Perhaps Brits have got so used to such a sustained buggering that they have become addicted to it? You tell me.

Compared to the brutal imperialism of US Capitalism, European Capitalism is rather more benign and has learned the hard lesson of internecine wars. It's highly significant, is it not, that the only European country that continues to act as America's whore is Britain. The other Europeans at least find excuses not to send their armies to fight America's wars.

So-called 'progressives' who loudly proclaim their humanism and anti-war sentiments seem to forget that the founding sentiments of the EU's founders were profoundly anti-war.

The present EU is a huge experiment and in a state of imperfection. What's more it is a capitalist state of imperfection. But nevertheless infinitely preferable to the American monster that Britain's ruling classes sold us to in the 1940s.

There is very little proper information available in Britain about the various aspects of the EU. Most of what we hear through the media is anti-European. I'm not surprised. Britain is lost up its own backside. As soon as you come back to Britain from abroad you can't help notice the weird, depressing time-warp that envelops you.

Scotland's great socialist, John MacLean, once said that only when Scotland achieves its independence will the evils of British colonialism be finally put to rest. I believe he was right. Scotland holds the key to the final dismantling of the nightmare that poses as the United Kingdom. I pray that it won't be long before Scotland's electorate kick out New Labour and, with it, three centuries of imperialist domination by England's ruling classes.

[uselesseater]

The only argument the anti-democratic Europhiles recite which appears to draw any water with anyone is in itself deeply flawed in both it’s premise and in the solution which it offers.

It says ‘were not independent from America’ so ‘lets sign the country over to the EU’ so we can have independence from the US’

Firstly, the evidence cited for our dependence on the US is in no way comparable to the amount or nature of control the EU already has and will have over the UK, which will cease to exist.

This makes the solution that the Europhiles offer to the problem they cite, ludicrous. In fact, it’s complete doublethink.

It’s exactly like saying that the remedy for a severed finger is to cut the arm off at the elbow.

[Rory Winter]

Uselesseater: I am not a Europhile. Just a European (like you, I presume).

Anyway, what are you doing soapboxing all this stuff on the 911 Truth Campaign? Just abusing your privilege for being here, more like.

Moderators: Is this stuff relevant to 911 Truth and this site? It seems a long way off the mark to me.

[Leiff]

If you visited more often you would know that the scope of this site is expanding...

You are a part timer and ignorant of recent developments!

P.S.
I believe a new investigation into 9/11 is essential but if you call me a 'nice chap' I'll let you off...

[Rory Winter]

What a nice chap you are. Very British, I'm sure ... may I point out the following from the 911 site?:

"Purpose

The purpose of this forum is to provide a safe, respectful, positive space for the discussion and information sharing. The forum is intended for the use of people who accept the need for a reinvestigation of 9/11 and the war on terror.Those who believe no new investigation is required should only post in the critics corner."

[uselesseater]

[Rory Winter]

[uselesseater]

The Neo Cons aren't behind the EU police state and our laws aren't drafted in the US. Obviously most important ideas are initialy drafted completely centraly, god knows where but at the legislative level ours come out of the EU. The EU and Neocons are just a different factions of the same management team.

By pretending to disagrgee on some issues they present themselves as two seperate entities, hoping the public will fall into their polar, divide & rule trap. It's the oldest trick in the book.

[Rory Winter]

The Neocons aren't behind what you call the EU police state?! Clearly, you aren't aware of how they work through the influence their Washington-based cabal has on politicians, such as Merkel and Blair, in western countries.

They were behind 911 and the ease with which the Bush version of 911 was foisted on Washington's European colleagues by the European Neocon media. The Neocons are behind globalisation and 'liberalising' trade. Why do you think the arch Neocon, Paul Wolfowitz, was appointed to head the World Bank?!?

The EU has been taken over by Neocon policies. The drift to the right took place over the last 15 years which is what I was trying to illustrate in previous messages to this thread.

If our police state legislation really "comes out of the EU" would you care to illustrate how this has been done on issues like the so-called anti-terror laws, the abolition of habeas corpus, the refusal of Britain to accept the Social Charter and why it took 49 years to ratify the Treaty of Rome on Human Rights?

PS Anyone who is interested in researching the origins of the British police state should start with 'Writing by Candlelight' by the late radical English historian Edward Thompson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.P._Thompson

Writing in the 'seventies, Thompson exposes the gradual drift to authoritarianism in several British governments, Tory and Labour alike. He ends with Thatcher who, of course, was Blair's model. The current British police state arose, first and foremost, from the authoritarian antecedents of British and later British-Atlanticism.

Hence the responsibility for the birthing of the British police state must lie essentially with the British. Blaming others is a futile exercise, ensuring that the British --as on the slavery issue-- remain in denial.

[Leiff]

[Rory Winter]

Having lived in Spain for some years as a resident, I was required to obtain a Spanish ID card. It wasn't a problem in a country which is far less authoritarian than Britain.

A biometric ID card is another matter though to which I object strongly. Who initiated this legislation? Did it come from the EU first or the Blair government? Exactly who was responsible for pushing it through both EU and UK legislation?

As for road pricing, as a non-car-owner I applaud the idea. As ex-EC Commissioner for the Environment, Ripa di Meana, said in his resignation speech automobiles are the greatest threat to the planet's biosphere both in terms of congestion and pollution.

I would happily endorse the most draconian legislation possible on private car ownership!

[uselesseater]

No the Neocons aren't behind the EU, they are a different faction of the same crew.

The Neocons are as disposable as any other of the bit players.

Washington is not the source of the NWO either but is obviousley a good client.

The people behind the neocons are behind the EU depending on how far back you want to go.

There are some squabbles between the US and EU elites, but only about the operational considerations.

The US is merely the hammer of the NWO, whilst the balcksmith lurks behind the scenes.

[Rory Winter]

[Rory Winter]

A question for Leiff and Uselesseater: what alternatives do you have for Britain outside the EU?