Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Gestapo Watch - Suspect Nation - DSS to use Lie Detectors
The most obvious disinginuity here is the tabloid headline which states, 'Benefit cheats face lie detectors'.
Well, actually the truth is that ALL benefit claimants will face lie detectors - not just benefit cheats.
Usually within criminal justice only suspects are subjected to a lie detector test with consent - even then they are not considered to be reliable evidence.
The software will be tested in job centres later this year
Lie detectors will be used to help root out benefit cheats, Work and Pensions Secretary John Hutton has said.
So-called "voice-risk analysis software" will be used by council staff to help identify suspect claims.
It can detect minute changes in a caller's voice which give clues as to when they may be lying.
The technology is already used by the insurance industry to combat fraud and will be trialled by Harrow Council, in north London, from May.
It will be tested on housing and council tax benefit claims first, before being rolled out to job centres later in the year.
Announcing the pilot, Mr Hutton said: "This technology aims to tackle fraudsters while speeding up claims and improving customer service for the honest majority."
Further evidence
The BBC's business reporter John Moylan explained that the system first analyses the characteristics of a caller's "normal" voice to establish a benchmark.
This ensures it takes any natural variation, for example due to nerves or shyness, into account.
The software then looks for changes in voice tone and frequency and performs thousands of mathematical calculations to identify signs that someone could be lying.
Benefits staff can then ask for further evidence to support any suspicious claims.
Callers will hear a standard message before they speak alerting them that the technology is being used.
According to government figures, benefit fraud cost the UK economy about £0.7bn in 2005/06.
As these devices are supposed to work by analysing the voice it ought to be possible to analyse anybody in earshot - whether on the TeeVee, Radio etc.
haha yes it'll be blinking red throughout any of "our tony"'s speeches i'm sure
on the point of testing benefit scroungers and cheats, i have no problem with it, there are far too many of them and they bleed this country dry. imagine all the better things that money could be spent on? rather than pissed up the wall or spent on women's designer fashions for single mothers... _________________ Make love, not money.
As these devices are supposed to work by analysing the voice it ought to be possible to analyse anybody in earshot - whether on the TeeVee, Radio etc.
haha yes it'll be blinking red throughout any of "our tony"'s speeches i'm sure
on the point of testing benefit scroungers and cheats, i have no problem with it, there are far too many of them and they bleed this country dry. imagine all the better things that money could be spent on? rather than pissed up the wall or spent on women's designer fashions for single mothers...
How much did it cost to test and develop? How much will it cost to roll out and implement? Much more than a few ii's.
...and I have a friend who sincerely thinks that blanket CCTV is a good idea because he lives near a bar - I can't wait to hear his views on the talking variety which I just read they are going to install here in Blackpool.
Problem is, Thermate, as far as I can see, there is a reactionary justification like yours for all this fascist shít. One day you will wake up with a chip in your arm and you will ask yourself, 'how the fück did this happen?'
I am disappointed that anybody on this forum outside Critics Corner could express such a view.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject:
flamesong wrote:
...and I have a friend who sincerely thinks that blanket CCTV is a good idea because he lives near a bar - I can't wait to hear his views on the talking variety which I just read they are going to install here in Blackpool.
Problem is, Thermate, as far as I can see, there is a reactionary justification like yours for all this fascist shít. One day you will wake up with a chip in your arm and you will ask yourself, 'how the fück did this happen?'
I am disappointed that anybody on this forum outside Critics Corner could express such a view.
Spot on. Its all "guilty untill the state decides to extend the favour of considering you innocent", which really defines the whole relationship with the citizen in this quasi stalinist apparatus being assembled around us by these Fabian stooges
Benefit fraud = 0.7 billion?
Is that all?
What was it, 500 billion for trident 2 passed on a nod just over a month ago?
Quote:
One day you will wake up with a chip in your arm and you will ask yourself, 'how the fück did this happen?'
LOL! At least we will know _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 6060 Location: East London
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:
flamesong wrote:
Actually, that is a very interesting point!
As these devices are supposed to work by analysing the voice it ought to be possible to analyse anybody in earshot - whether on the TeeVee, Radio etc.
So, I wonder how much they cost...
eBay here I come...
Great minds think alike! This is a seriously useful tool. One problem that springs to mind - you need a normal voice sample first. With someone like Bliar, lies roll off his tongue like quicksilver. The only time you would get an abnormal reading would be if he told the truth - don't hold your breath!
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Land Of The Scots
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:31 am Post subject:
Thermate wrote:
flamesong wrote:
As these devices are supposed to work by analysing the voice it ought to be possible to analyse anybody in earshot - whether on the TeeVee, Radio etc.
haha yes it'll be blinking red throughout any of "our tony"'s speeches i'm sure
on the point of testing benefit scroungers and cheats, i have no problem with it, there are far too many of them and they bleed this country dry. imagine all the better things that money could be spent on? rather than pissed up the wall or spent on women's designer fashions for single mothers...
Geez..Your all heart Thermate!!
Try to think outta that box you seem to be stuck in...
Branding people as scroungers and cheats just because they are unfortunate enough to become victims of the changing society we have become saddled with is not gonna help anyone.
I would much rather that taxes were spent on helping single mothers to raise their kids than on Big Brother paraphanalia, WMDs and the machinery of war!! _________________ It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
-Sun Tzu
The amount of money that is lost to benefit cheats is eclipsed by the money people are entitled to but goes unclaimed for a variety of reasons. There is no problem. They blame the victims to keep the heat off the guilty.
Thermate - if you need to sneer at others to make yourself feel better then there is something deeply wrong with yourself.
Branding people as scroungers and cheats just because they are unfortunate enough to become victims of the changing society we have become saddled with is not gonna help anyone.
That's bs. Benefit theft is rife, from my experience I'd say ~75% of claimants are fiddling in some way or other. If you like paying taxes to fund 'Bob the Builders' Spanish villa, feel free. I'll carry on being a "truther" thanks. _________________ Make love, not money.
i see nothing wrong with using the lie detector where there is suspected fraud, however with the way things are going and if it is done i can see it spilling over into everything we do, everyone being a suspect and maybe in some cases geniue honest people suffering as nothing is full proof surely and results are never 100% accurate including pergnancie tests.
i dont know how these things work but i know if i was linked to one and asked questions about my honesty i would feel a little stressed for being under suspion and fear of giving of signs of lieing when i know im not.
has anyone else ever been honest but was worried you would'nt be believed? would that give a false reading? if they are compulsary for us i reckon the goverment should start taking them when telling us storys as criminals are everywhere afterall and scams cost us money. that way the goverment could prove how honest they are and lead by example.
so if we are going to war they can prove they aint lieing about the reasons like last time.
That's bs. Benefit theft is rife, from my experience I'd say ~75% of claimants are fiddling in some way or other. If you like paying taxes to fund 'Bob the Builders' Spanish villa, feel free. I'll carry on being a "truther" thanks.
I'm at a loss for words.
When I read stuff like you have been posting I feel ashamed that I am associated with you in any way.
flamesong i dont know if 75% of claims are false but thermate has a point, i myself have heard of people doing it, the storys would make your blood boil especially if you work for a low wage.
which is why i think its a good thing only if used when there is good course to suspect someone, but i can see the bad side to and almost have no doubt this will take over our soicety and incorparate itself into everything we do. we will all be suspected as criminals by the criminals who lie all the time. i wonder how much money this country would of saved if tony blair took a lie detector before the iraq war, proberbly more than what can ever be saved through the benefits system.
makes you wonder why they cannot trust anyone, maybe they know themselves to well.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:56 am Post subject:
*NEWSFLASH*
Money is simply debt created by banks out of thin air
So lets divide and rule ourselves between those who stress themselves out trying to get hold of some only to have it taxed into oblivion to repay the bankers, and those who chill out and let the state give them enough to get some basic grub that week
"lost in a world of Illusion" or what? _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Land Of The Scots
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:
Quote:
That's bs. Benefit theft is rife, from my experience I'd say ~75% of claimants are fiddling in some way or other. If you like paying taxes to fund 'Bob the Builders' Spanish villa, feel free. I'll carry on being a "truther" thanks.
Around 5 million people are in receipt of an out-of-work benefit. Of these, almost 3 million are sick or disabled, almost a million are unemployed and three quarters of a million are lone parents.
Sick and disabled people now make up three-fifths of all working-age people in receipt of an out-of-work benefit.
Two-fifths of all claimants of Incapacity Benefit or Severe Disablement Allowance have mental or behaviour disorders.
http://www.poverty.org.uk/06a/index.shtml
I lived in Yorkshire when the Thatcher govt closed down the mining communities.
I watched everyone I knew go from working status to being unemployed just like that...at the whim of politicians. Whole communities thrown out of work.
Just as might happen to you or anyone else reading this forum.
Many of these guys now suffer from lung and respitory diseases...and can't work.
You castigate single mothers and feel they have no rights and you claim that 75% of unempoyed people are "fiddling" the system. I wonder where that figure of 75% comes from.
These kids are the future of our society. They will be the people expected to care for our generation in our aging society.
Thermate...have you ANY idea how hard people find it to get by on the low amount of benefits they get in this country? How it affects their belief in themselves and how they percieve themselves?
As most people on benefits are usually forced to have electricity and gas meters they actually pay much more for their energy bills than the people who have the money to afford the bills due to surcharges to the energy companies and actually subsidising the wage earner.
What about the politicians who's parliamentary salary is £60277 from 1 November 2006. And that's not including the perks that they award themselves. This while they allow industries to close down and the jobs to be moved abroad leaving the workers and their families who built up thse industries out of work.
Bank forclosure of businesses is on the increase as more and more people struggle to pay overheads and increasing taxation.
Job security is a false comfort..it simply does not exist.
Over the years I have seen friends and family lose their pensions funds, savings and jobs over and over again at no fault of their own.
I certainly have never met or spoken to any unemployed people who have a Spanish villa..they are too concerned with putting the next meal on the table to even have time to consider any sort of holiday..never mind this sort of pasttime.
PLease watch these videos to see what the money system is really about....
IMHO it is important that we do not allow the Truth movement to become fragmented by buying into establishment fallacies and mindgames.
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers.
Paul Grignon's 47-minute animated presentation of "Money as Debt" tells in very simple and effective graphic terms what money is and how it ... all » is being created. It is an entertaining way to get the message out. The Cowichan Citizens Coalition and its "Duncan Initiative" received high praise from those who previewed it. I recommend it as a painless but hard-hitting educational tool and encourage the widest distribution and use by all groups concerned with the present unsustainable monetary system in Canada and the United States.
Link _________________ It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
-Sun Tzu
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject:
Sounds to me like Thermate is simply afraid of loosing his job and is therefore projecting: sure way to attract a sacking of course _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject:
Chaos Warrior wrote:
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today.
This is the most startling and powerfully useful educational film I have ever seen. After watching it I was in a daze....saying to myself..."I had no idea"...
The dominating and single most important political fact of our lives has never been discussed in the public domain in my lifetime (born 1950)...it is that our money is created by private corporations (the banks), whose owners, therefore (because of the massive wealth that this reality bestows on them) inevitably control our (and every other western) government.
See this and you will understand that democracy itself, as we have been taught to understand it, is a sham.
See this and understand who has been forcing the planet towards a 'new world order' for the last 200+ years and therefore who, ultimately, is behind 9/11.
Anyone who understands the iniquity of our money creation system knows why we live in a culture of debt, why we are continually beset by new wars, why we have 3 parties which are virtually identical, why all really important truth is covered up by a compliant media, why real power is exercised secretly, why society keeps us busy, confused, overmanaged and badly managed, why the surveillance society encroaches evermore on our freedoms, why (you know all this..)......and why humanity is the servant of money and not vice versa.
The political agenda of anyone who recognises 9/11 truth should (having exposed this truth to the wider world) be to:
1) Return the power of money creation to government.
2) Pass laws that promote open government (outlaw secret societies and the taking of oaths of improper allegiance )...or at least ban the participation in any position of influence of a person who has taken such oaths.
3) Dismantle the Corporations. Let them return to their original purpose....i.e. short-term, temporary organisations assigned to complete a specific task.
Do you agree?
Add to this list as you think fit. We might all learn something.
I've fiddled the dole, all the people I know who've claimed benefits have fiddled them, I know 2 people who claim "sickness benefit" one is not sick, the other is not sick and works self employed too. I dare say most of you who posted in this thread either have fiddled it, know someone who has fiddled it, or will fiddle it yourself at some point. I know it, you know it.
Stop being naive hypocritical *. _________________ Make love, not money.
I've fiddled the dole, all the people I know who've claimed benefits have fiddled them, I know 2 people who claim "sickness benefit" one is not sick, the other is not sick and works self employed too. I dare say most of you who posted in this thread either have fiddled it, know someone who has fiddled it, or will fiddle it yourself at some point. I know it, you know it.
With his next breath Thermate then wrote:
Stop being naive hypocritical *.
Not since Tony Blair's, 'A day like today, it's not a day for soundbites: we can leave those at home. I feel the hand of history upon our shoulders', has anybody made such a crass statement.
From where I am sitting, it's you who looks like the hypocrite.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject:
Yep
Quote:
I've fiddled the dole
+
Quote:
hypocritical *
= A Winner!
Now if anyone would like to start a debate on "can the earth's resources sustain full employment in an industrial society making stuff just to keep the proles busy" we could really start to push some paradigms _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Tell me something: What does a genuine, honest, needy benefit claimant have to fear from a "lie detector" ?
Does it have to be fear? Is it not bad enough to be without a livelihood without being denigrated and subjected to suspicion just because the likes of you are cheats. The argument that the innocent have nothing to fear from being suspected could apply to any walk of life and would result in authority having dangerous powers which they ALWAYS abuse!
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