Should David Shaylers' Name Be Removed From The Front Page Of This Site?
YES. He has gone too far with NPT?
60%
[ 27 ]
NO. He is a good Ambasidor for the Movement?
40%
[ 18 ]
Total Votes : 45
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Message
Ichabod Crane Minor Poster
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 10
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:02 am Post subject:
A reminder:
JHR wrote:
One voice
The campaign recognises that there is a diverse range of opinion amongst 9/11 truth campaigners. We aim to unite opinion from Michael Meacher MP to David Icke. The campaign does not endorse any one presentation of the evidence or individual. What we do say is when taken in totality the evidence overwhelmingly supports the need to reopen 9/11. The greatest challenge is lack of public awareness and debate of this evidence and promoting this awareness and debate is our primary purpose.
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Should Shaylers Name Be Removed From The Front Of this s
People are prolly gonna' accuse me of talking to myself in a minute, LOL, but I just wanted to add:
Ichabod Crane wrote:
I admit that I feel that when Shayler appeared on Sky News, he did not present himself at all as well as he could. I think he could have been much more smart about how he handled the NPT, and subtle, which is what he probably thought he was doing, which is kinda' comical actualy.
I say that coming from a somewhat cynical marketing perspective, by the way. It's just that this issue of waking people up to 9/11 is so so so criticle, that it can jar when there's a ''bum note'' played. Kow wot I mean?
The creepy thing is not that shayler (Ex-MI5 - wink - wink) can do this much damage
to the credibility of 9/11 activists every time he's given air time, the creepy thing is,
people still 'appear' to think he's on the side of truth... ROTFLMAO
Thats beyond niave
Well i'm not so sure the second part of that is a fair assesment, given the results of this poll.
The question now is, who's in a position to do something about these results and WHAT are they going to do?
Start by getting familliar with the Cointelpro operations that have been used throughout this century to minimise the impact of dissident movements.
We need to re-examine who the Icons of the truth movement really are, and what their ultimate agenda might be.
Until a week or so ago, I never gave the no plane theory a second thought. Now it is making some sense to me. Just looking at the film of that aircraft sliceing through that steelframed skyscraper like a knife through butter doesn't look real any more. The building was designed to withstand such a blow after all. Surely an aircraft would just go in about halfway with most of it sticking out and lots of it breaking up and falling down the side of the building?
I must check this out! I sense Shayler is alright. Of course they do say, once an MI5 man always an MI5 man just like the CIA spooks, they never retire, do they?
Another thing, how could a fast moving aircraft make that incredible banking turn and still have enough forward momentum to slice through a steel framed building? Maybe all this has been debated before I came here. I dunno.
Of all the pointless debates, this really takes the biscuit. We should as soon be looking at removing Pilger (won't touch us with a barge pole) or Meacher (political opportunist) from the front page. I know, let's count how many angels dance on the head of a pin! In the meantime, more bombs will go off, more innocent people will die or be thrown in prison or tortured, and more unjustifiable wars will be started.
This movement encompasses all positions from LIHOP to lizards. The one thing that unites us is our quest for truth and justice. To attack one man for speaking his own truth - which he is convinced of - smacks of the playground bully mentality.
In fact, a call to expunge him from the movement mirrors exactly the tactics of the spooks and the dear Labour government, when they injuncted him and threw him in prison for speaking the truth, rather than investigating what he had to say. Shame on you.
And let's not forget what he has done for this movement. As most of you will know, I am no supporter of the NPT from a campaigning perspective. But, above and beyond that, Shayler has done a huge amount to help the movement grow: travelling endlessly around the country getting bums on seats at his talks, many, many successful interviews (I'll gloss over the New Statesman, which happened in the middle of our "divorce"), making films, writing, and adding a profile the campaign had not previously had in this country.
You think this is done as some evil plot to harm the credibility of the movement? On the contrary, it has impacted on his credibility with the MSM, and has pretty much ensured that the criminals in MI5 and MI6 will never be properly investigated and held to account. But he took the decision to focus on 911 because he thought it was just TOO important to ignore.
Dave speaks the truth as he sees it, regardless of the consequences. Not a comfortable or even wise approach sometimes (look where it's got him!). But admirable and courageous all the same.
Regards
Annie _________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus.
To all the witch hunters out there i would ask did you see the documentary to the run up to David's court case?. If my memory serves me correctly it was filmed a year (or was it two) in the run up to the kangeroo court case.
If the christian church were to bring back witch hunting and burning, i am sure a few of the posters on this thread would be at the front leading the torching.
May i enquire to these witch hunters what have you done to spread awareness of 9/11? what have you sacrifced?
The plane disappearing into 'the hole in the ground' is a fine example of speculating what happened. It's all fine and well going off into other theories of what happened, but thats falling into the trap. Forget about answering questions on what happened if it didant disappear into the 'hole', just concentrate on questions regarding the official fairy tale.
I do not want to waste my time writing and anyone elses time reading so get this people:
If we get judgemental about each other we may aswell get the microchips inserted now.
For goodness sake:
Trust each other
Remember where your power lies
Remember who you are
FOCUS on the campaign and not on the campaigners
If people have a problem with DS take it up with him. Anyone can start an argument but it takes wisdom to rise above it and look at the bigger picture.
Aove all
Dont feed the trolls. _________________ It's not about terror, its about illusion. It's not about war, it's about you
Stop worrying, take risks
Be brave
The revolution has been cancelled - its an evolution and everyone's included
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 49 Location: Land Of The Scots
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:
I don't agree with everything David Shayler says...but then again I'm an individual with my own thoughts and feelings and don't agree with everything anyone says.
I think David Shayler is a brave man.
He has been jailed for his beliefs...how many on these threads can claim that?
I have never met him but I admire his campaigns both for 9/11 truth and for the freeing of Jawad Botmeh and Samar Alami...fitted up for the car bombing of the Israeli embassy in London in 1994.
He seems to have been an extremely active campaigner for truth...appearing on many programmes.
I am not a believer in the NPT idea but I have no problem with people looking into this....DEW weapons certainly seem to be used in Iraq and elsewhere although I don't see anything on the scale needed to accomplish the destruction of the Towers.
I wonder how many of the people calling for David Shayler's removal from the frontpage have been so active and have brought so much attention to the movement?
I have only recently become a member of this particular forum although I have been involved in others.
I became a member of the Truth movement because I want a better world for everyone....not just the people I who's opinions I "approve" of.
The idea is that we UNITE against a common enemy...and that enemy is the PTB/NWO...call it what you will.
This infighting only serves to create division and could deter new members from joining.
Are we to become sheeple of a different kind..where we are made to feel uncomfortable because of a different belief?
Might as well roll over and let the NWO take over. This is exactly what they advocate.
Come on people....let's forget our differences and concentrate on the things that unite us. _________________ It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
-Sun Tzu
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 489 Location: Manchester
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject:
atleast shayler made it clear that he doesnt think discussion on npt is productive for the movement..there are much more important issues to discuss. i'm pleased about that.
i'm still dissapointed he thinks they may have been holograms. he generally speaks with such a reassuring tone of confidence and intelligence on issues where evidence is present.. and then speaks equally confidently on issues where basically no evidence is there.
no planes/ tablets / messages from the cosmos?? (ive heard him say something in a 7/7 along these lines)
+ the 'division' in the movement he mentions shouldn't be about what we believe.. we should come together democratically and decide what we all think the best course for success is. and what our goal is _________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"
You can put up clips of that 'ghostplane' as much as you like but the majority on here still don't see it, they still can't bring themselves to * see that the f***ing thing has disappearing f***ing wings, glides through the building like a ballet dancer into a frilly stage curtain and the fact that no-one can even identify anything that looks like a plane hitting the north tower is not important. BUT THEY CAN'T SEE IT BECAUSE THEM PLANES HIT THEM THERE BUILDINGS BECAUSE THE US GOVT/MEDIA TOLD THEM SO! _________________
chek wrote:
look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
You can put up clips of that 'ghostplane' as much as you like but the majority on here still don't see it, they still can't bring themselves to * see that the f***ing thing has disappearing f***ing wings, glides through the building like a ballet dancer into a frilly stage curtain and the fact that no-one can even identify anything that looks like a plane hitting the north tower is not important. BUT THEY CAN'T SEE IT BECAUSE THEM PLANES HIT THEM THERE BUILDINGS BECAUSE THE US GOVT/MEDIA TOLD THEM SO!
MIND CONTROL - completely and utterley. The majority of the 9/11 Truth Movement have allowed themselves to be put under some powerful, dark spell. _________________
chek wrote:
look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
thats the first time ive seen that video compilation, forget the plane going into the building a second as i still dont think its easy to say or can be compared to a much slower car crash/plane crashes as speed plays a big part in what happens.
the fake building was explained before(months ago now), at the time with the way it was done i felt it didnt really demonstrate well enough the angles involved etc. this compilation does however and i now see the point being made and can see the differance, it has certainly challenged what i though previous to it, and am glad whoever went to film the site after 9/11 did so as that is what made the whole thing clearer to see.
$*@!""£
if anyone can find the clip of the building fake on a news report(with sound) i'd be 100% convinced on that point (it would iliminate the faked and posted on youtube arguement). but im about 90% sure on that enough to think theres something wrong there anyway.
thats the first time ive seen that video compilation, forget the plane going into the building a second as i still dont think its easy to say or can be compared to a much slower car crash/plane crashes as speed plays a big part in what happens.
the fake building was explained before(months ago now), at the time with the way it was done i felt it didnt really demonstrate well enough the angles involved etc. this compilation does however and i now see the point being made and can see the differance, it has certainly challenged what i though previous to it, and am glad whoever went to film the site after 9/11 did so as that is what made the whole thing clearer to see.
$*@!""£
if anyone can find the clip of the building fake on a news report(with sound) i'd be 100% convinced on that point (it would iliminate the faked and posted on youtube arguement). but im about 90% sure on that enough to think theres something wrong there anyway.
At last, a breakthrough! _________________
chek wrote:
look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 489 Location: Manchester
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject:
i'm sorry but i just dont see holograms in the video... i see unusual visual artefacts when slowed down , but i'm pretty sure you often get those when u slow videos down of collisions involving large masses.
We can all be united in this movement, depsite differences in opinion, as long as we understand each other and HAVE A COMMON GOAL! there should be more discussion on reaching that goal. _________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"
i'm sorry but i just dont see holograms in the video... i see unusual visual artefacts when slowed down , but i'm pretty sure you often get those when u slow videos down of collisions involving large masses.
We can all be united in this movement, depsite differences in opinion, as long as we understand each other and HAVE A COMMON GOAL! there should be more discussion on reaching that goal.
And your verdict on the invisible wings, Sherlock? _________________
chek wrote:
look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
I am actually getting pissed off with people attacking David Shaylor.
On several posts by several people.
Shaylor is an absolute hero he is sticking his neck on the line and spreading the word far and wide. Personally i admire him and will happily defend him anywhere.
Stop knocking him and start congratulating him for his good work and achievements.
He is wrong about NPT but he is right about 95% of what he has publicly said and that 90% is worth more than my tuppence and i suggest YOURs _________________
I am actually getting pissed off with people attacking David Shaylor.
On several posts by several people.
Shaylor is an absolute hero he is sticking his neck on the line and spreading the word far and wide. Personally i admire him and will happily defend him anywhere.
Stop knocking him and start congratulating him for his good work and achievements.
He is wrong about NPT but he is right about 95% of what he has publicly said and that 90% is worth more than my tuppence and i suggest YOURs
Agreed, apart from the fact that you say he is wrong about NPT.
Firstly, I'm new here and I'm not very familiar with the state of 9/11 truth in the UK. And I jumped in both feet first with a few earlier posts, not realising who Annie was, for one thing. But my bs detector has been going mad lately, and I think this stuff is important, so I'm not going to risk erring on the side of politeness if there's a risk that the truth may fall by the way-side by doing so.
So in that spirit:
I don't buy the no-planes argument to begin with - I don't see anything terribly wrong with the second tower impact footage. Anything the size of a boeing travelling at 450mph which is relatively "sharp" and which is near as dense as water, or more dense, is going to penetrate the lattice-like structure of a building like an axe cuts into a tree. Ask a physicist if you doubt this assertion.
And if the only other issue is anomalous video footage, then I'd venture to suggest that it's easier, and much more likely, that some footage has been fiddled with by video pro's than it is that hologram planes were used on 9/11.
So with this in mind, I have to say that purely in terms of 9/11 truth, David Shayler is damaged goods - he can be of no further use to 9/11 truth as any kind of spokesperson. Even if he agrees that NPT is divisive and should not be broached as a topic (just as he has finished unapologetically explaining his take on it, mind you!), it's clear as day that NPT is so hugely distracting, and so thoroughly unsubstantiated, that David can't be a spokesperson for a cautious 9/11 truth movement. (And a cautious 9/11 truth movement is the only one with a chance of succeeding). He has said too much already.
Whether he stays on the front page of this site or not, he should at least stop mentioning NPT publicly. And he should also avoid talking about not talking about it.
.
.
.
Oh, and I like the Sumerian aliens thing - what would the trade term for that be? Something like "poisoning the well?" I'd really like a reference for that one - does anyone know which item of public record he is refering to here?
Might be good for the movement if he kept that one close to his chest too.
Last edited by egw on Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
First of all, I posted this a couple of months ago, and have since decided that although I disagree with David on his NPT stance, I have to agree that he has done loads to promote the 9/11 inside job campaign!
Cheers David, (Always respect despite any disagreements )
Annie...
Quote:
Dave speaks the truth as he sees it, regardless of the consequences. Not a comfortable or even wise approach sometimes (look where it's got him!). But admirable and courageous all the same.
... admirable and courageous maybe, but regarding NPT, he does not speak the truth.... simply because he does not speak on the subject at all?
You both know my feelings on this issue, and I was really wavering on whether to respond to this thread, but decided that I am not going to let a thread go 'open ended' when there is an obvious answer to this issue.
'David is sitting on the fence over a black and white issue' and to me, if I am clued up enough to make an informed decision on this issue, then I feel that David, who is quite likely far more informed than myself, should stop stalling over the facts!
It is time David stood up and be counted... and I do not want to hear the usual arguments that he is standing up to power... (I already know and am most greatful for what he has done)... but he has taken the mid-way (un-committal) position.
Sitting on the fence is not an option regarding NPT. We require that extra mile!
Peace, love and truth,
Brian.
Ps. I hope you both are not p1ssed with me cos I am only speaking my mind!
"Steel turning to dust." Right. Download the AVI clip attached to the first picture on this page. Watch it a few times and ask yourself if that is definitely metal turning to dust. (Or, as the bottom end of the beam crashes into the ground is it simply concrete dust being vibrated off of the beam and concealing it in a thick cloud? A boring explanation, but that may be all there is to it).
Then ask yourself, why is Fetzer using the poorest quality video footage available of the spire collapse as evidence? This flimsy evidence allows him to run off on the hugest of tangents.
Totally unwarranted.
And excuse me, but yeah, debris could have caused that hole in wtc6! (Or any number of other things could have caused it besides a DEW weapon). It's certainly rash to rule it out as a possibility - yet there is Fetzer, ruling it out.
I don't care who promotes the NPT theory, as long as they provide evidence that such a technology exists as well as show it in action, along with sound affects.. (I'm sure photons don't make a sound let alone jet engines..)
Considering Shayler has a powerful voice in the uk movement, he must recognise the damage he has done by voicing such a theory without evidence - this is coming from an ex-agent people. Whilst in his last vocation, do you think he would get away with providing fanciful theories to his masters without any rational evidence?! Would he f**k!
I would say to those in the upper echelons of the truth movement to give Shayler the bollocking he deserves and make him work hard to rebuild the damage he has caused _________________ http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/referendumonwar/
Thanks for your comments - always a pleasure when people speak their mind rather than waffle!!
For the record, I strongly disagreed with Shayler mentioning the NPT when he did last year, as I could see the problems this would cause, both for him and for the campaign. In fact, by taking the position he did, he's now getting it in the neck not only from people who think NPT is damaging, but also from people who go way further!
Can I just make it clear to everyone that David and I separated 6 months ago? So it's not my role to try to defend his position or his views. I just have a visceral dislike of anything that smacks of injustice or "ganging up", and the premise of this thread gave me hideous flashbacks to how he was treated when he blew the whistle. So sorry if I came on a bit strong.
Regards
Annie
BTW, Cynic, there are no "upper echelons" in the movement - we all do as much or as little as we can, other commitments allowing! _________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus.
BTW, Cynic, there are no "upper echelons" in the movement - we all do as much or as little as we can, other commitments allowing!
You describe the actions of the individual without influence or power Annie. Your voice carries weight in the movement, as well as Shayler and all speakers/organisers.
cynic,
I think what Annie means is that you chose your own level of involvement, any perceived "seniority" Annie has is on a very human level, where she has earned respect of the movement through her effort and commitment.
A lot of people have walked through the door of the movement and made an immediate possitive impact, such as university events or public lectures, and that is possible because of the lack of "upper echelons" pulling strings. Instead people pull together behind people who have taken such inititives and the committe we have is there to provide a structure of support for anyone who wants to take on a task and make a difference.
Some people's voices do carry influence; but it is an influenced earned through respect and not one which has been institutionally ordained. _________________
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