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zoomer
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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oh GOD this is depressing. Has NOone got ANy reaction to what i have said???
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Craig W
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Welcome, zoomer. And thanks for an interesting post.
Don't be disheartened by the lack of responses - and do not take it as a reflection of the quality of your post.
A couple of thoughts about this forum from a relative newcomer:
- there are some good, and a few very good, posters on here (and some not so good and some "troublemakers", in my opinion)
- there is some good, and some very good info, posted on here (amid lots of less good info and some disinfo, in my opinion)
- use the forum search facility at the top of every page to look back at past discussions. You will very often find a topic has been debated before.
- don't expect all your posts to be responded to promptly (there are many active threads at any one time and people's time is finite)
Regarding your post: it is very interesting. This is not a subject with which I am very familiar but I can see it's relevance to the question at hand (Icke and his "aliens").
To clarify for my own understanding, are you suggesting that various psychedelic funghi were used by early humanity and became known in occult lore as "fallen angels" (I note that some mushrooms are still called angels)? And that these "fallen angels" were later misinterpreted (accidnetally and/or deliberately) to mean "alien" type creatures?
You make a point about use of these drugs giving an impression of communicating with higher intelligences - a point which could be used to back up the "alien" hypothesis. Could you elaborate on that aspect? Does Allegro explain that phenomenon?
I agree that the "lizards" thing has become a joke to many people and is used to mock and discredit anyone who expresses any of the many more plausible (and in my view very probably true) elements of Icke's work. I say this as a fan of his. I have learnt much from his work and he has a great gift for communication and getting to the heart of the matter. But I have always taken his more outlandish assertions with a large pinch of salt. And I share an earlier poster's unease at Icke's willingness to believe anything that fits his theories, regardless of the lack of any real evidence (citing anonymous or single internet sources as references , for example). That said, I still believe his work to be of significant value, as long as the reader retains a critical eye.
I am also interested in your reference to the debunking of Zecharia Sitchin's work. Though I am familiar with his thesis, I have never "believed" in it as it was so unverifiable and didn't seem to "mesh" with anything that i felt more certain about. I would be interested in any references/links you could supply which offer a critique.
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zoomer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Craig W wrote: | Welcome, zoomer. And thanks for an interesting post.
Don't be disheartened by the lack of responses - and do not take it as a reflection of the quality of your post.
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Thanks for your kind welcome and advice
| Quote: | A couple of thoughts about this forum from a relative newcomer:
- there are some good, and a few very good, posters on here (and some not so good and some "troublemakers", in my opinion)
- there is some good, and some very good info, posted on here (amid lots of less good info and some disinfo, in my opinion)
- use the forum search facility at the top of every page to look back at past discussions. You will very often find a topic has been debated before.
- don't expect all your posts to be responded to promptly (there are many active threads at any one time and people's time is finite) |
OK, I see....again thanks for your good advice
| Quote: | Regarding your post: it is very interesting. This is not a subject with which I am very familiar but I can see it's relevance to the question at hand (Icke and his "aliens").
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Thankyou, and I respect you lots for diving in here
| Quote: | To clarify for my own understanding, are you suggesting that various psychedelic funghi were used by early humanity and became known in occult lore as "fallen angels" (I note that some mushrooms are still called angels)? And that these "fallen angels" were later misinterpreted (accidnetally and/or deliberately) to mean "alien" type creatures?
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Let me quote you the relevant passages from John Allegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross:
"The "Rephaim", as their name can now be seen to mean, were those "cast down from heaven", the fallen angels of the sixth chapter of Genesis, and a common theme of Jewish mythology."--page 140
"Such very special kinds of vegetation were, then, "angels" and to know their names was to have power over them" --page 46 ibid
These sacred mushrooms, according to Allegro's deciphering of anceint words, and mythological motifs, were also referred to as 'giants'.
| Quote: | | You make a point about use of these drugs giving an impression of communicating with higher intelligences - a point which could be used to back up the "alien" hypothesis. Could you elaborate on that aspect? Does Allegro explain that phenomenon? |
Well , many New Age people now have sometimes swapped the so-called 'channelling' with 'masters' and 'spirits' with 'aliens'. This is a common thing. Now we have to be very carefgul here---ie., of throwing baby out with bathwater.
For example, The Disclosure Project's Dr Steven Greer claims to have contacted ET beings. So does my criticizing New Age channellers claiming the same thing, or Illuminati putting it out they are hybrids with aliens, include's Greer's claims?
I think we have to LISTEN to what the channelers calim these contacts say! For example, if you are familiar with the so-called information from ushc influential channelers like Madame Blavatsky--founder of Theosophy, and Alice Bailey, whose a huge influence on New Agism, and really look at their stuff, it is racist, and dualistic.
We of COURSE know about the Illuminati who also are part of this New Age. We know their intentions don't we? Hiler and the Nazis also beived to be in contact with 'masters/superman', being influenced by Blavatsky, etc, and we know about them, right? So...............we must be very very careful how we look at all this. To look at it not only with reason, but being always aware of patterns, and our feelings about what's being shown.
Some of Dr Greer's claims regarding contact with other beings seems benevolent. But we must keep really on the ball is what I am saying!
by the way. Allegro doesn't meantion about Extraterrestrials in his book.
And I very recently listened to an interview with Alan Watt where he also voices that originally the Illuminati gave out the myth they were the 'fallen rebels'/angels, and how the Greeks even wrote down such stories, but when questioned about what he thought about David Icke's theories of reptilians said that this was a new thing coming from them. Although , in the interview he doesn't elaborate on this, here and elsewhere is implied that they are using this myth to create an awe about themselves as being more than human whilst we, to them are the 'lesser humans'. http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=alex+ansary+48
| Quote: | | I agree that the "lizards" thing has become a joke to many people and is used to mock and discredit anyone who expresses any of the many more plausible (and in my view very probably true) elements of Icke's work. I say this as a fan of his. I have learnt much from his work and he has a great gift for communication and getting to the heart of the matter. But I have always taken his more outlandish assertions with a large pinch of salt. And I share an earlier poster's unease at Icke's willingness to believe anything that fits his theories, regardless of the lack of any real evidence (citing anonymous or single internet sources as references , for example). That said, I still believe his work to be of significant value, as long as the reader retains a critical eye. |
I am the same. previously, before I got a computer, I wrote him off because of these theories, but when I listened to the rest, he is very articulate. But believing in the other stuff does tend to undermine his judgement. Now I believe he has had an experience inspired with Ayahuasca.
| Quote: | | I am also interested in your reference to the debunking of Zecharia Sitchin's work. Though I am familiar with his thesis, I have never "believed" in it as it was so unverifiable and didn't seem to "mesh" with anything that i felt more certain about. I would be interested in any references/links you could supply which offer a critique. |
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Of course. This is important, because such Annunanki, and reptilian myths depend on Sitchin's so-called research. If his research can be proven to be really insubstantial then we can begin to dispell this myth, and explore other avenues which is what I am trying to do.
I want to dis-awe the Illuminati. I don't know if that word exists, but you know what I mean.. They are just extremely extremely arrogant people, who feel themselves so superior that any humanity has gone long ago. I don't mean they are not human now, but when a person chooses to be superior, and will go to any lengths to get and keep control, they ARE dehumanized. NOT angel, or ET, but vile people with no feelings. Sure, they might feel they have for their own 'kind', like the mafia does for its kind..........Sitchin is Wrong http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/sitchinerrors.htm
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Craig W
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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A great response, zoomer. Much to digest and respond to here. I will try and do so when I have more time (tonight?). I am really interested in this angle.
Just wanted to say "thanks", etc, so you don't think I've ignored you. LOL 
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John White
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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zoomer:
"dis-awing the illuminati"
spot on mate, I'm all for it: principly I consider this is best acheived by substituiting the word "influence" whenever the word "control" is used with regard to "them". Try it out, let me know how you get on
Re: Icke, Lizards and so on
Hoopiness got him, and the information noticed: whether a greater good or a greater evil, only time will tell. However, the mind cannot unhear what it hears, it can only will itself to ignore it. The spread of 9/11 truth has of course depended on this errosive effect against consensus trance/ manufactured reality
Whether Lizard people exist or not beyond mythological and metaphorical truth I personally find I have no need to have a firm opinion of: I deal with whats in front of me, without fear as much as possible
Regards and Welcome to you
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zoomer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks John White...................
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zoomer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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errrm should distance themselves from David icke..........not ME! (looks at watch/sundial/seasons...)
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Cruise4
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Common Ground to unite us |
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There is...
Whatever you believe do something every day to further the aim of waking others up. Reading and posting on Forums is quite an interesting interlude, when you can't face addressing another label or starting a Print Job. But if you don't actually DO something you have no point. |
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zoomer
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Common Ground to unite us |
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| Cruise4 wrote: | There is...
Whatever you believe do something every day to further the aim of waking others up. Reading and posting on Forums is quite an interesting interlude, when you can't face addressing another label or starting a Print Job. But if you don't actually DO something you have no point. |
Why isn't communicating with others online doing something?
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Cruise4
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: In a facetious world it is |
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But kind of ploughing an already ploughed field with a hand trowel.
I think its important to reach those that have no idea about all this, but on a forum everyone does on the whole. Spam Filters, computer or human, work against emails, and spamming non-related forums tends to work against your message. Video's on Yahoo, Digg or Myspace are always valuable so it does all depend I suppose. Does signing online petitions work? I doubt it, but I still sign them.
I should have said posting on 9/11 related forums, maybe.
But surely everyone agrees going offline and reaching mainstream is vital? |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Still what would someone who's zapped himself with shrooms and then finds to back up his experiences with a one-sided philology text on ancient mushroom texts have to say about more recent reportage
Godammit those reptilian shapeshifters are real!
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zoomer
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="dh"]Still what would someone who's zapped himself with shrooms and then finds to back up his experiences with a one-sided philology text on ancient mushroom texts have to say about recent reportage
Godammit those reptilian shapeshifters are real! |
ahhhh, so your an Ian Crane fan then?
why do you say a 'one-sided philology on 'anceint mushroom texts'
sorry, but your not making sense to me.
and what do you mean 'someone who's zapped himself with shrooms'?
Are you implying something there?
Spell it out.
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rodin
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Zoomer - I blasted Sitchin on another thread as I recall - this Planet x stuff is all about keeping us occupied with inflatable tanks and not noticing the IED's under the bed.
He is one of the criminal gang himself.
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course.
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londonsound
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | principally I consider this is best achieved by substituting the word "influence" whenever the word "control" is used with regard to "them". |
hear hear. this is what i always argue. "they" don't have "total control" they have enormous influence. total control is the goal, so we have a window in which to check that influence.
let's do that
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sidlittle
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: |
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course. |
Having never actually seen a reptilian being myself, my natural inclination is not to believe in them. However, your insinuation that 'reptilian' is actually representative of a more sinister, hidden meaning is absolute bs. You clearly haven't read any of his books. Yes as nuts as it sounds, by reptilian he does indeed mean a big, fck off,inter-dimentional, green-scaled lizard.
cheers
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zoomer
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: | Zoomer - I blasted Sitchin on another thread as I recall - this Planet x stuff is all about keeping us occupied with inflatable tanks and not noticing the IED's under the bed.
He is one of the criminal gang himself.
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course. |
can you link me to your thread please?
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| sidlittle wrote: | | rodin wrote: |
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course. |
Having never actually seen a reptilian being myself, my natural inclination is not to believe in them. However, your insinuation that 'reptilian' is actually representative of a more sinister, hidden meaning is absolute bs. You clearly haven't read any of his books. Yes as nuts as it sounds, by reptilian he does indeed mean a big, fck off,inter-dimentional, green-scaled lizard.
cheers |
No he doesn't. He can hardly keep a staight face sometimes when putting out the wacky stuff. JMHO I have no insider infor except that in certain quarters crypto Askenazi's like late Serge Gainsbourg are referred to as having 'reptilian eyes'.
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| zoomer wrote: | | rodin wrote: | Zoomer - I blasted Sitchin on another thread as I recall - this Planet x stuff is all about keeping us occupied with inflatable tanks and not noticing the IED's under the bed.
He is one of the criminal gang himself.
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course. |
can you link me to your thread please? |
Actually I thouight it was this one now i come to think of it - mebbe one of those posts that got lost in transit...
| Quote: | | Sitchin HIMSELF, however, is Jewish .. and therefore can't admit that "Yahweh/Jehovah" is NOT identifiable as "The God of All Creation". |
http://www.warfolly.com/kaminski/themindlock-4.html
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rodin
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| zoomer wrote: | | rodin wrote: | Zoomer - I blasted Sitchin on another thread as I recall - this Planet x stuff is all about keeping us occupied with inflatable tanks and not noticing the IED's under the bed.
He is one of the criminal gang himself.
As for Icke and his 'reptilian shape shifters' I agree with Stelios. Metaphor. Icke will never admit it of course. |
can you link me to your thread please? |
Actually I thouight it was this one now i come to think of it - mebbe one of those posts that got lost in transit...
| Quote: | | Sitchin HIMSELF, however, is Jewish .. and therefore can't admit that "Yahweh/Jehovah" is NOT identifiable as "The God of All Creation". |
http://www.warfolly.com/kaminski/themindlock-4.html
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Kap25
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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I´ve always taken reptile to be a metaphor.
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zoomer
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kap25 wrote: | | I´ve always taken reptile to be a metaphor. |
AS metaphor 'reptilian' would refer to the oldest part of the brain, the 'reptilian brain' that is supposed to be without any emotions and is just focussed on survival. hence one could see how this might be applied to the cabal who seem to just want to destroy for their own manic need for 'survival' at any cost, and and without any emotions, feelings, for all the bodies they maim, and murder, and imprison, misery they create--on many levels--to get what they want...........
But I have read where David Icke claims that so and so witnessed the Queen Mother etc 'transform' into a lizard. So he and his followers are NOT just using metaphor. Some simple research should show you this. Or, try and present some pieces from his articles whjere he edfinately claims he is just using metaphor
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wickywoowoo
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to see the lack of research into Icke in this thread.
He's been accused of being New Age, which he is as much against as any other "religion" if you'd actually take the time to read his stuff.
Also, the fact most people here think he means something else when saying reptilian, is seemingly an implication of the "he really means Jewish people" slur.
You're all accusing him of being a New Age Anti-Semite, which is quite slanderous really. |
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zoomer
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| wickywoowoo wrote: | Nice to see the lack of research into Icke in this thread.
He's been accused of being New Age, which he is as much against as any other "religion" if you'd actually take the time to read his stuff.
Also, the fact most people here think he means something else when saying reptilian, is seemingly an implication of the "he really means Jewish people" slur.
You're all accusing him of being a New Age Anti-Semite, which is quite slanderous really. |
And you are assuming only you are an authority on David Icke. Yes I have read him, I have watched and listened him, and I come from the same part of the UK as him, the Northwest.
So, it's one thing to critique, if you feel we are all wrong then give examples to back up what you say...?
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | zoomer:
"dis-awing the illuminati"
spot on mate, I'm all for it: principly I consider this is best acheived by substituiting the word "influence" whenever the word "control" is used with regard to "them". Try it out, let me know how you get on
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Surely the point when campaigning is to judge your audience and to use terminology they can relate to. If you're talking to people who find Icke inspiring, use Ickeian terms, though those people are usually sympathetic to the 9/11 Truth Campaign anyway.
If you're talking to Muslims, use terms and references that relate to their experience; if talking to Marxists, try using theirs. I find "upper echelons of the capitalist class" goes down better with Marxists while "Illuminati" elicits a sad shaking of the head and and a knowing look that means "you're one of those crazy people who believes in little green men".
I believe there are potentially ways of talking which will get through to each section of society, but we must suit our words to our audience.
I agree, John, that "influence" is more appropriate than "control". "Control" puts people in a fatalistic frame of mind. The point is that no-one has complete control over our minds. We have the option to opt out of the unquestioning mind-set. |
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wickywoowoo
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| zoomer wrote: | | wickywoowoo wrote: | Nice to see the lack of research into Icke in this thread.
He's been accused of being New Age, which he is as much against as any other "religion" if you'd actually take the time to read his stuff.
Also, the fact most people here think he means something else when saying reptilian, is seemingly an implication of the "he really means Jewish people" slur.
You're all accusing him of being a New Age Anti-Semite, which is quite slanderous really. |
And you are assuming only you are an authority on David Icke. Yes I have read him, I have watched and listened him, and I come from the same part of the UK as him, the Northwest.
So, it's one thing to critique, if you feel we are all wrong then give examples to back up what you say...? |
I don't consider myself an authority on the man at all, I just think anyone who has read on the man knows he hates the New Age scene and he sincerely means reptiles when he says reptiles, yet most people still call him New Age and infer he means Jewish people. What is the deal?
I live in the North West of England too, but I fail to see what relevance that has on anything. |
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ian neal
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | anyone who has read on the man knows he hates the New Age scene and he sincerely means reptiles when he says reptiles, ........ |
True
Last edited by ian neal on Wed May 30, 2007 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zoomer
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| wickywoowoo wrote: | | zoomer wrote: | | wickywoowoo wrote: | Nice to see the lack of research into Icke in this thread.
He's been accused of being New Age, which he is as much against as any other "religion" if you'd actually take the time to read his stuff.
Also, the fact most people here think he means something else when saying reptilian, is seemingly an implication of the "he really means Jewish people" slur.
You're all accusing him of being a New Age Anti-Semite, which is quite slanderous really. |
And you are assuming only you are an authority on David Icke. Yes I have read him, I have watched and listened him, and I come from the same part of the UK as him, the Northwest.
So, it's one thing to critique, if you feel we are all wrong then give examples to back up what you say...? |
I don't consider myself an authority on the man at all, I just think anyone who has read on the man knows he hates the New Age scene and he sincerely means reptiles when he says reptiles, yet most people still call him New Age and infer he means Jewish people. What is the deal?
I live in the North West of England too, but I fail to see what relevance that has on anything. |
I mean are we not really focussing on what he means by reptilians, or reptoids? I am saying that I believe he really means it when he says how members of the elite shapeshift into reptoid form.
What are YOu saying?
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wickywoowoo
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say you specifically said that, but several people in this thread have made those very points.
I was just pointing out if anyone has actually read his stuff, they know that is not true. |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Why do people have problems with this stuff? In the royals it's difficult to distinguish. But in Barbara Bush and in Hilary it's overwhelmingly out there
Mandelsohn and Michael Howard - obviously reptoid
Blair and Reid- simple emotionally flat tools of the agenda
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xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| dh wrote: | Why do people have problems with this stuff? In the royals it's difficult to distinguish. But in Barbara Bush and in Hilary it's overwhelmingly out there
Mandelsohn and Michael Howard - obviously reptoid
Blair and Reid- simple emotionally flat tools of the agenda |
Paul, please explain yourself. "Reptoid" to me means covered in scales, with a tail and cold-blooded. All of the people you mention are certainly human with blood temperature around 98.4F or 36C.
You single out Peter Mandelson and Michal Howard as particularly obvious reptilians. What do you mean? Peter is an old friend of mine, though I certainly have big political differences with him. I have seen him partially undressed at a party in Oxford when he was a student there and I can assure you he has no scales and no tail. The only thing in common between him and Michael Howard that I am aware of is that they both have some Jewish ancestry. Peter is not religious and not Jewish, according to Jewish law, because his mother was not Jewish. She, Mary Mandelson ne Morrison, was the daughter of Herbert Morrison, Foreign Secretary in Atlee's Labour government. I was welcomed at her home on several occasions.
I find nothing "obvious" about these reptoid allegations and believe that to say so publicly simply brings our campaign into disrepute. |
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