Protocols

[Barker]

You may know which Protocols this refers to. I want to say first that I do not consider the Protocols to be the work of a Jewish person. They were first published by the Russian Priest Nilus, in 1905. Nilus claimed that it was a true translation of a document stolen by a woman from one of the most influential and highly initiated leaders of Freemasonry at the end of a meeting of the initiated, in France.

At that time the Freemasons had considerable influence in Russia, whilst Jews were being persecuted. By seeding Jewish references into the text, Nilus made it possible to get it published in Russia.

However they provide an interesting blueprint of techniques for world domination and indicate some of the methods being used today: fermenting unrest in society, control of the banking system, control of the media, supression of spiritual thought and ideas, removal of human rights etc.

[karlos]

Link

[Barker]

9/11; Iraq Invasion [again]; Afghanistan [again]; 7/7; Lebanon[again] Gaza Ghetto; Palestine Wall.

It seems like the militarists or who ever they are, are committed to a policy of perpetual war -- Is this New World Disorder?

[ian neal]

Indeed it is

Not that I have ever read the protocols but what I have read of them they would indeed seem describe the game plan.

My problem with referring to the protocols is (1) their authorship and origin is unknown and (2) their baggage in their use by Hitler to demonise all people of jewish faith.

Those that seek to use the protocols to argue that zionists or worse jews run the world (and I recognise this is not you Barker) are treading on dangerous ground precisely because of their baggage. Secondly I just don't buy the idea that zionists are the puppet-masters to the exclusion of other powerful elites from other faiths such as Skull and Bones or the Jesuits or high degree masons.

This article is an interesting who's who of the shadow government in the US http://www.earthrainbownetwork.com/ShadowGov.htm. Although I tend to agree with the author at the end when he says that not even those on the inside fully understand how the machine works. What I am convinced of is that simplistic conclusions such as the zionist elites run the show does even come close to capturing the true complexity and smoke and mirrors. At the end of the day we don't need to know all of the inner works of the new world disorder. All we need to know is that without our compliance and co-operation with this monsterous system they can't get away with it.

If we remove our co-operation, refuse to fight in their phoney wars or just refuse to work (a general strike) and the house of cards comes tumbling down.

[karlos]

Hitler used the protocols in the same way he used darwins theory of evolution.

The protocols were written in the late 1900's and widely published. So to call them fake is difficult considering they predate alot of what has happened.

Its like saying the KIng James bible is fake. They might be but because somebody wrote them such a long time ago and because everything in them seems to have happened they are more like a blueprint or a manifesto of aims in the same way the Karl Marx work was also a series of aims that people chose to follow.
People are following the protocols today for sure.
Many people would say that the teachings of L Ron Hubbard are insane but alot of famous people seem to be following what i am sure was originally a work of fiction.

[rodin]

[rodin]

I found a somewhat unique forum, set up by Holocaust supporters, where deniers are invited to debate evidence with them. I will spend some time here. This thread seemed concise enough

http://p102.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm10.showMessageRange?topicID=1642 .topic&start=1&stop=20

The issue was - are the deisel fumes (carbon monoxide) genocidal murder stories true or false? The Holocaust supporters cite claims of witnesses who saw blue discolouration of victims of this gassing. The 'denier' shows that CO poisoning leaves victims with red discolouration not blue. From the tenor of both sides of the debate, it seems that the denier has the upper hand on two counts

1) He is scientifically correct as even the pro-Holocaust proponents are eventually forced to concede
2) The pro case degenerates into huge long legalistic posts designed to send the reader to sleep

If anyone has the time to check this thread I would be interested in a second, third opinion etc.

[karlos]

interesting

[rodin]

Reference to my above post. On the same site I found a good point made by a H supporter - why didn't any war criminals who 'confessed' under duress retract their confessions upon release? The best argument was that they and their families were too scared to try to clear their names. I am not convinced by this argument. Any thoughts?

I am not trying to promote an agenda BTW. I am trying to find out the truth, and call it like I see it.

[Barker]

What to call these people? All the terms which come to mind, seem to be too specific;

'Neocons': too political
'Zionists': too specifically racial
'Illuminati': Too mystical; I don't think they are mystical, just greedy

'Military industrial complex': too general
'Shadow Government' is close; but it assumes they are governing whereas they are more of a power for chaos

The shadow gov URL didn't work for me, but I put 'shadow government' into google and up it came.

I have heard the term 'Cochon' used, it is a French derisory term,
swine or pig, also dirty, smutty, rubbish. As it was the pigs who took control in Orwell's Animal Farm and since pigs are reputed to have an endless appetite for greed, it seems appropriate.

Back to the issue of the Protocols, there are many Jews who are spiritual people with principles are are opposed to the Cochon attitude. Many of My heroes are [or were] Jews, and over 100 people of Jewish origin were killed 911. New York which is supposedly a 'Jewish' state is solidly Democrat. There are several Jewish people who have raised and discussed the issue of the Protocols on the net. One has suggested that they were a work of a very small group of people who included Rothchild, as rodin has mentioned.

After WW II there was much idealism in the fledgling Israeli state, a socialist government, the Kibutz experiments, and a lot of sympathy.

Jewish Musician Daniel Barenboim who has worked to bring Muslim and Jewish musicans together in the same orchestra, said during his BBC Dimbleby Lectures last year, 'After the seven day war in 1967, the Jewish nation moved from being the oppressed to being the oppressors.

There must be a lot of people in Israel who went there to live with a spiritual purpose and who are throughly fed up with the militarising of their country, and who would like to see a resolution to the Palestine Israeli conflict.

The military approach that was master minded by Ariel Sharon hasn't worked. The whole nation is suffering a crisis of identity now that their 'super army' has been licked by a shower of Hisbollah guerilla fighters.

I believe that if the Israel Palestine situation was resolved , this whole issue of the Cochon, the 'War on Terror' and the New World Disorder would start to evaporate.

For anyone interested in reading the Protocols, they are available on line,
put there by an Australian fundamentalist Christian group.
Putting 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion into google, will find it alternatively the URL is:

www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

[Barker]

Hitler's grandmother [on his fathers side] was Jewish. She worked for a while as a servant in the Rothchild household.
When she got pregnant, a minor scandal which was hushed up, she was dismissed from the service.
Hitler doted on his mother and hated his father who used to beat him up.

Could this have been the root of his antisemitism?

[rodin]

How about 'Evilite'

Some researchers are pushing that there really are hidden Ashkenazi (ie Rothschild and co) bloodlines all over the place - including Bush, Cheyney, Monarchies etc. and that the Rothschild formula still operates.

[karlos]

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm
THE PROTOCOLS
OF THE LEARNED ELDERS
OF ZION

[karlos]

WE CONTROL THE PRESS
4. NOT A SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT WILL REACH THE PUBLIC WITHOUT OUR CONTROL. Even now this is already being attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.

5. If already now we have contrived to possess ourselves of the minds of the GOY communities to such an extent the they all come near looking upon the events of the world through the colored glasses of those spectacles we are setting astride their noses; if already now there is not a single State where there exist for us any barriers to admittance into what GOY stupidity calls State secrets: what will our positions be then, when we shall be acknowledged supreme lords of the world in the person of our king of all the world ....

6. Let us turn again to the FUTURE OF THE PRINTING PRESS. Every one desirous of being a publisher, librarian, or printer, will be obliged to provide himself with the diploma instituted therefore, which, in case of any fault, will be immediately impounded. With such measures THE INSTRUMENT OF THOUGHT WILL BECOME AN EDUCATIVE MEANS ON THE HANDS OF OUR GOVERNMENT, WHICH WILL NO LONGER ALLOW THE MASS OF THE NATION TO BE LED ASTRAY IN BY-WAYS AND FANTASIES ABOUT THE BLESSINGS OF PROGRESS. Is there any one of us who does not know that these phantom blessings are the direct roads to foolish imaginings which give birth to anarchical relations of men among themselves and towards authority, because progress, or rather the idea of progress, has introduced the conception of every kind of emancipation, but has failed to establish its limits .... All the so-called liberals are anarchists, if not in fact, at any rate in thought. Every one of them in hunting after phantoms of freedom, and falling exclusively into license, that is, into the anarchy of protest for the sake of protest....

FREE PRESS DESTROYED
7. We turn to the periodical press. We shall impose on it, as on all printed matter, stamp taxes per sheet and deposits of caution-money, and books of less than 30 sheets will pay double. We shall reckon them as pamphlets in order, on the one hand, to reduce the number of magazines, which are the worst form of printed poison, and, on the other, in order that this measure may force writers into such lengthy productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be costly. At the same time what we shall publish ourselves to influence mental development in the direction laid down for our profit will be cheap and will be read voraciously. The tax will bring vapid literary ambitions within bounds and the liability to penalties will make literary men dependent upon us. And if there should be any found who are desirous of writing against us, they will not find any person eager to print their productions. Before accepting any production for publication in print, the publisher or printer will have to apply to the authorities for permission to do so. Thus we shall know beforehand of all tricks preparing against us and shall nullify them by getting ahead with explanations on the subject treated of.

8. Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and therefore our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals. This will neutralize the injurious influence of the privately-owned press and will put us in possession of a tremendous influence upon the public mind .... If we give permits for ten journals, we shall ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same proportion. This, however, must in no wise be suspected by the public. For which reason all journals published by us will be of the most opposite, in appearance, tendencies and opinions, thereby creating confidence in us and bringing over to us quite unsuspicious opponents, who will thus fall into our trap and be rendered harmless.

9. In the front rank will stand organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests, and therefore their influence will be comparatively insignificant.

10. In the second rank will be the semi-official organs, whose part it will be to attack the tepid and indifferent.

11. In the third rank we shall set up our own, to all appearance, opposition, which, in at least one of its organs, will present what looks like the very antipodes to us. Our real opponents at heart will accept this simulated opposition as their own and will show us their cards.

12. All our newspapers will be of all possible complexions -- aristocratic, republican, revolutionary, even anarchical - for so long, of course, as the constitution exists .... Like the Indian idol "Vishnu" they will have a hundred hands, and every one of them will have a finger on any one of the public opinions as required. When a pulse quickens these hands will lead opinion in the direction of our aims, for an excited patient loses all power of judgment and easily yields to suggestion. Those fools who will think they are repeating the opinion of a newspaper of their own camp will be repeating our opinion or any opinion that seems desirable for us. In the vain belief that they are following the organ of their party they will, in fact, follow the flag which we hang out for them.

13. In order to direct our newspaper militia in this sense we must take special and minute care in organizing this matter. Under the title of central department of the press we shall institute literary gatherings at which our agents will without attracting attention issue the orders and watchwords of the day. By discussing and controverting, but always superficially, without touching the essence of the matter, our organs will carry on a sham fight fusillade with the official newspapers solely for the purpose of giving occasion for us to express ourselves more fully than could well be done from the outset in official announcements, whenever, of course, that is to our advantage.

14. THESE ATTACKS UPON US WILL ALSO SERVE ANOTHER PURPOSE, NAMELY, THAT OUR SUBJECTS WILL BE CONVINCED TO THE EXISTENCE OF FULL FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND SO GIVE OUR AGENTS AN OCCASION TO AFFIRM THAT ALL ORGANS WHICH OPPOSE US ARE EMPTY BABBLERS, since they are incapable of finding any substantial objections to our orders.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion4.htm#protocol%20No.%2012

[Dogsmilk]

Here is the full text of the fictional satire the Protocols are generally regarded as having ripped off.

http://www.geocities.com/net3431/Dialogues_In_Hell.html

For example:

[Dogsmilk]

[karlos]

The reason we are not allowed to question history is because there are things that do not add up.
A 1929 census in germany showed a population of 400,000.
Bearing in mind many escaped 60,000 to switzerland, many to britain and america the often quoted figure of 6,000,000 does not add up. 100,000 is nearer the mark. Which is still a heinus crime and an absolute tragedy. But dont the advocates realsie that by exagerating the numbers to unreal amounts that is what makes people question.

Bosnian genocide
Rwanda genocide
Armenian genocide
Chechen genocide
seem to have been airbrushed from history meanwhile
Bosnians were not even allowed compensation for killings which were video taped and where the killers are known.
Murder and racism is wrong wherever and whenever it occurs.

[Dogsmilk]

[karlos]

Link

[karlos]

Link