| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ants
Validated Poster
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorkshire
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: Sun13May - LEEDS TRUTH FESTIVAL - Sundays Events |
 |
|
Leeds Truth Festival
Sunday 13th May 2007
The Occult Hand … from 9/11 to 2012 – by Ian R. Crane
An ex-oilfield Executive who has spent many years studying mythology, alternative history, ancient wisdom, secret societies and mysticism, Ian Crane has a unique take on many of the catastrophic events that have occurred in the first few years of this new Millenium. Where many only see more tragedy and suffering, Crane regards this period of history as the most exciting time since the days of Atlantis; and the eventual outcome he says, ... is down to each and every one of us!
Hyperdimensional Influence on Planetary Geology – by Anthony M Beckett B.Sc. M.Sc.
In the last fifty years of scientific study, space exploration has pushed the boundaries of knowledge far beyond the expectations of those original scientists. So great was the plethora of information we gained about our own solar system that the scientific community stood in triumph at our achievements. But what did we really learn? Is it possible that in our race to understand the solar system and the universe around it that we missed a basic fundemental principle about our own planet and about ourselves.
Health / Medicine / Spirituality - by Sareeta Webra B.Sc.
Sareeta Webra is a graduate in biochemistry and medical bioscience with general and biological psychology bachelors degree from the University of Kent at Canterbury. She has an Indian genetic background with parents that lived in both Kenya and North India. This gives her a uniquely holistic approach to stem-cell & genetic therapy, medicine, dentistry and biological science. Sareeta like many of us frustrated with the global 'bleeding-edge' of medicomedia politics and oppression, set out to explore the possibility of trying to make changes for the next generation.
Skylines and Cloudbusters - by Andrew Johnson BSc.
Andrew is a graduate in Computer Science and Physics, from Lancaster University and has 20 years work experience split between software development and education. Weather Modification is already happening and to a far greater extent than most people are aware. This presentation takes looks into the work of Wilhelm Reich, the HAARP Project and Chemtrails. The evidence cited includes official documentation in addition to photographic and video evidence. The work of reseachers like Andrew Johnson ( www.checktheevidence.com) demonstrate that there is much more happening to our environment than we may be aware of.
Doors 12.00 - 6.00pm, 13th May - Adelphi, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS10 1JQ
Admission: Voluntary Donation of £3.00 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
zoomer
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
HI everyone, I am new here.................First. can I ask you'll. after I post this message, do I get an email, how do I find out to get back to it to see if its been replied to? Sorry, I am fairly new to computers and forums............
OK, main thing I want to explore. I recently got email notificatyion about the Leeds truth Festival, and heard about an Ian R Crane. I heard he goes into occultis angle about 7/7 and 9/11.....................
As well as the 'ordinary' 9/11 truth investigation, I also am serious into really ttrying to fathom the occultist stuff.
This investigatyion was really inspired after 7/7, when I happened on some researchers online revealing possibly occultist clues all over 9/11, and then I found some about 7/7 etc.
I see all of this as like dtective work. For example, a detective hunting a serial killer would not turn their nose up at ANY clues..........would they?
So, anyhow, getting to my point. I decided to check out this Ian Crane at google videos. So I watchede, and then he begins talking about the Anunnanki and I inwardly groan.
Why? Because this stuff is so reminiscent of David Ickian theories as themselves influenced by Zacharia Sitchin. And I have read that Sitchin's theories regarding the Anunnanki are absurd.
I get angry about this , mainly because it smacks of DISinformation. It creates an 'awe-factor' about these elite peoples.
THE only person, alive, that I FEEL is talking at least some sensre about this aspect is Alan Watt. I haven't listened or watched that much of him I admit. But from what I have heard, he claims all of this Anunnanki/space beings/fallen rebels/angels is really a myth THEY put out create an awae about them. That the 'fallen superior being' myth comes from Grecian philosophers, and this new reptilian stuff is very new!
I feel this is vitally important to explore. From my researches into this aspect of 9/11 etc, I see two major camps of inquiry---the Judaic Christian resrearchers who believe in Revelations, and that the elite are the anti christ, Satan and so on.....AND the David Ickian people who believe the elite are some kinda hybrid with 'reptoid' aliens
NOone ---well maybe Watt does, am not sure---apart from the late Swedish artist Monica Sjoo, who was an early voice showing up the New Age for what it is----noone is aware of the Goddess, and her role in this.
What do I mean?
Well, the Goddess is a deep cor myth whereby Goddess represents Nature. And if you look c.llose you see that the Abrahamic religions, so-called atheistic materialistic science, AND the Luciferian elite ALL denounce Nature. They are all warrior -driven, and control maniacs.
Does this Ian Crane --for all his supposed knowledge of anceint history. Does he even acknowledge the role of psychedelics in this history?
YEt they hold centre stage! In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations, especially, maybe, the sacred mushroom. For this understanding it's important to read John Allegro in his The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross
in it he --being a philologist, and one of the picked people to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, translates the 'fallen angels' to mean the very psychedelic mushrooms. The anceints didn't know about mushroom spores so many assumed they miraculously came from ABOVE----hint hint 'fallen', they were also known as 'angels'......?? because taking them can give the experience of contacting higher intelligence!
So, isn't this more plausible than imagining some 'supeior race' comes down to make us slaves, and all that junk! The only slaveholders here are HUMANS who because of being greedy and grabbing land and money begin beliving they are gods, especially if they take these shriooms----ie., their set&setting would be negative, and would excacerabte their already self-aggrandizement
So trhe elite are really just * arsed normal people like anyone is my thesis. But have become DE humanized
Thoughts?
_________________
keep asking questions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Watcher
Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 200
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FAO: Moncta - Zoomer
"Nobody can be saved from anything, unless they save themselves. It is hopeless doing things for people—it is often very dangerous indeed to do things at all—and the only thing worth doing for the race is to increase its stock of ideas. Then, if you make available a larger stock, the people are at liberty to help themselves from out of it. By this process the means of improvement is offered, to be accepted or rejected freely, and there is faint hope of progress in the course of the millennia. Such is the business of the philosopher, to open new ideas. It is not his business to impose them on people."
Extract from The Book of Merlyn - T.H. White
The Watcher |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Leeds Truth Festival agenda is going to prove controversial as it branches out into other areas
Why fight it? Just go with the flow and see what transpires.
This is the first series of talks offered by committed UK 9/11 truthers that addresses other issues
Welcome that, whether or not you agree with the issues being presented
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Emmanuel
Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 434
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoomer
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Watcher wrote: | FAO: Moncta - Zoomer
"Nobody can be saved from anything, unless they save themselves. It is hopeless doing things for people—it is often very dangerous indeed to do things at all—and the only thing worth doing for the race is to increase its stock of ideas. Then, if you make available a larger stock, the people are at liberty to help themselves from out of it. By this process the means of improvement is offered, to be accepted or rejected freely, and there is faint hope of progress in the course of the millennia. Such is the business of the philosopher, to open new ideas. It is not his business to impose them on people."
Extract from The Book of Merlyn - T.H. White
The Watcher |
I am not 'saving', I am sharing ideas. To claim nobody can be saved from themselves, as some way of saying not to share ideas--implying they cant handle them.......? is patronizing. If this dude ian Crane is going to be up on stage for two hours going on about stuff, then speak to HIM about that. What i am trying to do is inspire talking about similar stuff he does here, but CHALLENGING his and Ickes theories. Some people though are a bit nervy thinking out side the box. Don't be
_________________
keep asking questions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As the Shayler film remains unfinished and as Pikey's calendar reference remains a little confusing, this still remains the guide to the extra-agm, (at the Adelphi) activities
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just to add that the prime organiser of the festival and the AGM and one of the proposed speakers have been beaten up in an apparently random physical attack. Is this just coincidence? Watch your backs, brothers and sisters
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Annie
9/11 Truth Organiser
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 830
Location: London
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I spoke to Ants before. Apparently no bones broken and they're all OK.
_________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing - Edmund Burke.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem Americanam appellant - Tacitus Redactus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ants
Validated Poster
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorkshire
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zoomer wrote: | | HI everyone, I am new here.................First. can I ask you'll. after I post this message, do I get an email, how do I find out to get back to it to see if its been replied to? Sorry, I am fairly new to computers and forums............ |
Hi!
| zoomer wrote: |
OK, main thing I want to explore. I recently got email notificatyion about the Leeds truth Festival, and heard about an Ian R Crane. I heard he goes into occultis angle about 7/7 and 9/11........................
...So, anyhow, getting to my point. I decided to check out this Ian Crane at google videos. So I watchede, and then he begins talking about the Anunnanki and I inwardly groan.
Why? Because this stuff is so reminiscent of David Ickian theories as themselves influenced by Zacharia Sitchin. And I have read that Sitchin's theories regarding the Anunnanki are absurd. |
Check out Michael Heiser http://www.michaelsheiser.com/. I met him in Washington a couple of years ago. He's another bod whose been translating the sumarian cuniform tablets and he disagrees vehemently with Sitchin (his other website is http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/  ) Heiser still believes that we should take the translation of the various terms gods to mean literal 'beings'. The "Nibaru" stuff he sees as an 'error' on sitchins part which sitchin refuses to re-address. The point is that sitchin is not the sole translator of the ancient sumarian texts. Many other sources are also of the opinion that this literal interpretation is the correct one.
| zoomer wrote: |
I get angry about this , mainly because it smacks of DISinformation. It creates an 'awe-factor' about these elite peoples.
|
Well, if I remember correctly Sitchin was working directly for the Rockefeller Institute in New York - the organisation that collected the majority of the available cuniform tablets - for which translations are still not in the public domain. No conspiracy theory there though... or has a crime been committed??!
The key property of disinformation is that in order for it to work part of the information has to be true (or rather, believed to be true by its creators). Either, "The truth is best hidden between two lies" or "a lie is best hidden between two truths". Whichever.
| zoomer wrote: |
THE only person, alive, that I FEEL is talking at least some sensre about this aspect is Alan Watt. I haven't listened or watched that much of him I admit. But from what I have heard, he claims all of this Anunnanki/space beings/fallen rebels/angels is really a myth THEY put out create an awae about them. That the 'fallen superior being' myth comes from Grecian philosophers, and this new reptilian stuff is very new!
|
Doesn't the idea of the "Fallen Angels" comes from the translation of the word Hebrew word for Hermon (Harem) which (apparently) means 'curse'. Mt Hermon being the place where the "Watchers" apparently became "fallen" or "cursed" or "decended to Earth" (please avoid any rash assumption about the use of the word 'decended'! ). A "literal translation" of the events may make sense to some people and other may reject it out of hand. If you and Alan are correct in your assumption that '"THEY put out" the fallen angel space being stuff' it still doesn't mean it isn't true. They may well have put it out for the reasons you cite because they believe it to be true (rightly or wrongly).
| zoomer wrote: |
I feel this is vitally important to explore. From my researches into this aspect of 9/11 etc, I see two major camps of inquiry---the Judaic Christian resrearchers who believe in Revelations, and that the elite are the anti christ, Satan and so on.....AND the David Ickian people who believe the elite are some kinda hybrid with 'reptoid' aliens
NOone ---well maybe Watt does, am not sure---apart from the late Swedish artist Monica Sjoo, who was an early voice showing up the New Age for what it is----noone is aware of the Goddess, and her role in this.
What do I mean?
Well, the Goddess is a deep cor myth whereby Goddess represents Nature. And if you look c.llose you see that the Abrahamic religions, so-called atheistic materialistic science, AND the Luciferian elite ALL denounce Nature. They are all warrior -driven, and control maniacs.
Does this Ian Crane --for all his supposed knowledge of anceint history. Does he even acknowledge the role of psychedelics in this history?
YEt they hold centre stage! In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations, especially, maybe, the sacred mushroom. For this understanding it's important to read John Allegro in his The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross
in it he --being a philologist, and one of the picked people to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, translates the 'fallen angels' to mean the very psychedelic mushrooms. The anceints didn't know about mushroom spores so many assumed they miraculously came from ABOVE----hint hint 'fallen', they were also known as 'angels'......?? because taking them can give the experience of contacting higher intelligence!
So, isn't this more plausible than imagining some 'supeior race' comes down to make us slaves, and all that junk! The only slaveholders here are HUMANS who because of being greedy and grabbing land and money begin beliving they are gods, especially if they take these shriooms----ie., their set&setting would be negative, and would excacerabte their already self-aggrandizement
So trhe elite are really just * arsed normal people like anyone is my thesis. But have become DE humanized
Thoughts? |
How can you be sure that you haven't come to a similar conclusion to Ian Crane ? .... judge ... book ... ... cover. Are you coming along on Sunday? Hope to see you there  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoomer
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Doesn't the idea of the "Fallen Angels" comes from the translation of the word Hebrew word for Hermon (Harem) which (apparently) means 'curse'. Mt Hermon being the place where the "Watchers" apparently became "fallen" or "cursed" or "decended to Earth" (please avoid any rash assumption about the use of the word 'decended'! ). A "literal translation" of the events may make sense to some people and other may reject it out of hand. If you and Alan are correct in your assumption that '"THEY put out" the fallen angel space being stuff' it still doesn't mean it isn't true. They may well have put it out for the reasons you cite because they believe it to be true (rightly or wrongly).
|
Well Professor John Allegro, in his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross translates those "cast down from heaven" as the "Rephaim" and these are the 'sacred mushrooms', also to be understood as 'angels/messengers'. This makes much more sense than actual 'beings' being cast down and all the baggage of that. For the psychedelics, as I have discovered, have had a great deep fascination from our species, and the animal species (Animals and Psychedelics, Giorgio Samorini), and are central to mythological creative inspiration, religious and philosophical, and scientific inspiration, etc. because they are a trigger for consciousness to sense of expansiveness...........As then, so now. We also are awed by these psychedelics. And for the anceints, not having access to microsopic technology, many assumed that fungi miraculously appeared. So this could account for myths like 'fallen angels'
| Quote: | | How can you be sure that you haven't come to a similar conclusion to Ian Crane ? .... judge ... book ... ... cover. Are you coming along on Sunday? Hope to see you there |
Because he seems to believe in the reptilian myth ala Zacharia
_________________
keep asking questions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Watcher
Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 200
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ants asked:
| Quote: | | How can you be sure that you haven't come to a similar conclusion to Ian Crane ? .... judge ... book ... ... cover. Are you coming along on Sunday? Hope to see you there |
Zoomer responded:
| Quote: | | Because he seems to believe in the reptilian myth ala Zacharia |
If my memory serves me correctly, when I last saw Ian Crane speak, he presented a compelling case that the belief system among the upper echelons of the ruling elite, incorporated elements from Sumerian Mythology, rather than presenting it as his own belief. His main thesis centered on references to the Watchers in the Book of Enoch & the Book of Jared, with Mt. Hermon being the prospective location for a return, in 2012 (encoded), of whoever locked the 200 Watchers into this physical realm. Co-incidence? Perhaps, but I guess we'll know for sure in a few years. Ian Crane usually gives good value and each time I've seen him speak, he has always encouraged the audience NOT to take anything he says as gospel truth but to go away and do their own research. He certainly speaks with passion ... but he doesn't preach!
Not sure I can make it to Leeds this weekend but with Tony Gosling (Bilderburgers), Joseph Skelton (Cremation of Care), Andrew Johnson(NPT) & Crane on the programme, it won't be boring! I hope someone posts a report of the event.
The Watcher |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ants
Validated Poster
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorkshire
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Because he seems to believe in the reptilian myth ala Zacharia |
Zacharia's Reptilian myth? I read Sitchins first two books and don't recall Zacharia having a reptilian myth. Maybe I should have read more but his books don't make particularly interesting reading.
Sitchin was translating a language from source texts. If Sitchins translation was accurate then any "reptilian myth" would be "the sumarians reptilian myth" as reported by Sitchin. If Sitchin's translation was inaccurate then the "reptilian myth" would be Sitchins inaccurate "sumarian reptilian myth".
Thoughts anyone? Note to Zoomer: Google search 'epistemology'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pikey
Banned
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1491
Location: North Lancashire
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zoomer wrote: | | HI everyone, I am new here.................First. can I ask you'll. after I post this message, do I get an email, how do I find out to get back to it to see if its been replied to? |
Hi Zoomer
You don't get messages when others reply to your posts on this forum, but to find out: click on Forum on the home page, then click on Search at the top of the forum portal; then enter your screen-name in the Author box. That will give you a list of the threads you have posted in. From there you can click on any of them to find what has been said in reply.
| zoomer wrote: |
OK, main thing I want to explore. I recently got email notificatyion about the Leeds truth Festival, and heard about an Ian R Crane. I heard he goes into occultis angle about 7/7 and 9/11..................... |
[quote="zoomer"]I can assure you that Ian is a very interesting and stimulating speaker, though I don't know what to make of some of his occultist theories. You would need to do your own follow-up research to discover what you make of them.
| zoomer wrote: | As well as the 'ordinary' 9/11 truth investigation, I also am serious into really ttrying to fathom the occultist stuff.
This investigatyion was really inspired after 7/7, when I happened on some researchers online revealing possibly occultist clues all over 9/11, and then I found some about 7/7 etc. |
I think it is important to realise that, though intriguing, proof of the fact that we have been lied to about 9/11 does not depend on occultist stuff. Publicly to link 9/11 to occultist research, particularly within the 9/11 Truth Campaign, deters many potential supporters from taking the Campaign seriously, as in their view and the view of the media and politicians, those who take the occult seriously are delusional. This stuff tends to divide opinion within the Campaign and therefore in my opinion should be kept separate.
| zoomer wrote: | I see all of this as like dtective work. For example, a detective hunting a serial killer would not turn their nose up at ANY clues..........would they?
So, anyhow, getting to my point. I decided to check out this Ian Crane at google videos. So I watchede, and then he begins talking about the Anunnanki and I inwardly groan.
Why? Because this stuff is so reminiscent of David Ickian theories as themselves influenced by Zacharia Sitchin. And I have read that Sitchin's theories regarding the Anunnanki are absurd. |
Whatever anyone says about this stuff, there will always be someone around saying it's absurd. I try to keep an open mind.
| zoomer wrote: | I get angry about this , mainly because it smacks of DISinformation. It creates an 'awe-factor' about these elite peoples.
THE only person, alive, that I FEEL is talking at least some sensre about this aspect is Alan Watt. I haven't listened or watched that much of him I admit. But from what I have heard, he claims all of this Anunnanki/space beings/fallen rebels/angels is really a myth THEY put out create an awae about them. That the 'fallen superior being' myth comes from Grecian philosophers, and this new reptilian stuff is very new!
I feel this is vitally important to explore. From my researches into this aspect of 9/11 etc, I see two major camps of inquiry---the Judaic Christian resrearchers who believe in Revelations, and that the elite are the anti christ, Satan and so on.....AND the David Ickian people who believe the elite are some kinda hybrid with 'reptoid' aliens
NOone ---well maybe Watt does, am not sure---apart from the late Swedish artist Monica Sjoo, who was an early voice showing up the New Age for what it is----noone is aware of the Goddess, and her role in this.
What do I mean?
Well, the Goddess is a deep cor myth whereby Goddess represents Nature. And if you look c.llose you see that the Abrahamic religions, so-called atheistic materialistic science, AND the Luciferian elite ALL denounce Nature. They are all warrior -driven, and control maniacs. |
I knew Monica quite well, and her three sons, two of whom tragically died. She was much into the theory of a patriarchal take-over in pre-history at which point, earlier conceptions of God(ess) as a female earth/Mother Nature concept, were overthrown by male sky-gods in order to reinforce male dominance in society. Thereafter, male-dominated society exploited nature for it resources, rather than conserving and cultivating it, leading to the environmental mess our planet is now in.
| zoomer wrote: | Does this Ian Crane --for all his supposed knowledge of anceint history. Does he even acknowledge the role of psychedelics in this history?
YEt they hold centre stage! |
Ask him.
| zoomer wrote: | | In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations, |
Probably. Mystics have experiences which give them insights. They then talk or write about these (which is extremely difficult to do in a way which people who have not had such experiences can understand) Such writings, especially if they were written long ago, no matter how imperfectly they are understood, then become institutionalised as infallible scriptures of various belief systems, often altered by the powers that be to suit their political agendas.
It is however also possible to achieve such trancendental states of mind without herbal or chemical catalysts through disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, diet, excercise etc
| zoomer wrote: | | especially, maybe, the sacred mushroom. For this understanding it's important to read John Allegro in his The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross |
I tried reading that but found it impossible to complete.
| zoomer wrote: | | in it he --being a philologist, and one of the picked people to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, translates the 'fallen angels' to mean the very psychedelic mushrooms. The anceints didn't know about mushroom spores so many assumed they miraculously came from ABOVE----hint hint 'fallen', they were also known as 'angels'......?? because taking them can give the experience of contacting higher intelligence! |
Possibly.
| zoomer wrote: | | So, isn't this more plausible than imagining some 'supeior race' comes down to make us slaves, and all that junk! The only slaveholders here are HUMANS who because of being greedy and grabbing land and money begin beliving they are gods, especially if they take these shriooms----ie., their set&setting would be negative, and would excacerabte their already self-aggrandizement |
I don't like the superior race theory at all; it sounds horribly fascistic, though it may be true. I would like to see some incontrovertable proof of it. Without that I am not prepared to accept that the powers that be are anything more than ordinary people with wealth and arrogance, who manipulate the populace through various networks of secret and semi-secret societies and through the money system.
I believe the birth of the Internet at this time gives humanity the potential to overthrow the grip that the PTB have on our minds and to usher in a new age of peace, truth, justice and sharing. I see the advent of the internet as equivalent to the advent of the written word at the birth of civilisation and of the printing press at the birth of the European Renaissance. But that's a hunch and a hope; I can't prove it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoomer
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
I think it is important to realise that, though intriguing, proof of the fact that we have been lied to about 9/11 does not depend on occultist stuff. Publicly to link 9/11 to occultist research, particularly within the 9/11 Truth Campaign, deters many potential supporters from taking the Campaign seriously, as in their view and the view of the media and politicians, those who take the occult seriously are delusional. This stuff tends to divide opinion within the Campaign and therefore in my opinion should be kept separate.
|
This is VERy important point you raise. I learned very early the hostility talking about occultism in regard of 9/11, and the politcal ruling elite world in general can unleash. One forum I was at www.sciforums.com --where i was trying to convert the sci-atheists , I began encouraging the exploration of the OCT. of course I got some stick, but it was when I brought up occultist clues is when the ------err adults turned into poop throwing maniacs. Some would openly insult me with hige text, etc with intention of closing down the threads, which is what happened. Really strange.
I respect you opinion, but my way is this. Things are So VERy bad, and urgent now. More so than we can imagine what with apsychopathic mindset running riot all over planet Earth. That for my part, there can be no holding back with whatever I feel the need to BE aware of in freedom...............? And to openly encourage others to be aware of. OTHERWISE myths continue to be spun. What I mean is that already the Truth movement as I explained has different poinsts of view exploring it. So , for example, there are Christians who see what is happening apcocalyptically, and they quote biblical passages from Revelations and so on. And it is many of these that have pointed out the occultist symbols being used by the elite. As well as questioning the OCT.
Then we have the David Ickian type perspective where he will speak of the elite being shape-shifting reptiles in contact with alien intelligences, and he also mentions about their occultist connection with anceint knowledge, etc.
then we have those who just focus on the actual event---what I call the 'nuts and bolts' of the happening, such as David Ray Griffin. Now, would I hound Professor Griffin to include in his talk about the occultist clues?..........NO. Why? Because what he is doing is INVALUABLE. How he meticulously exposes the OCT's 'facts'. And it would be incongrous to expect him to go into this area.............But this doesn't mean that members of the Truth Movement should believe that the exploration of occultist clues is harmful to the Truth Movement, in regars it will 'divide' the Movement. No. Rather I encourage for myself, and thus for others a flexible approach. Do not stifle your curiousity about all of this, nor in others. But if it's not your bag then don't go there. But allow others to. Allow freedom, because the elite wants total control!!!
people are fearful of the occultist stuff because of its unfamiliarity. I was very disturbed when I found hints about it, soon after 7/7 actually.
| Quote: | | I knew Monica quite well, and her three sons, two of whom tragically died. She was much into the theory of a patriarchal take-over in pre-history at which point, earlier conceptions of God(ess) as a female earth/Mother Nature concept, were overthrown by male sky-gods in order to reinforce male dominance in society. Thereafter, male-dominated society exploited nature for it resources, rather than conserving and cultivating it, leading to the environmental mess our planet is now in. |
I would have loved to have met her. have you read her book which goes in depth, exposing the New Age/Illuminati? titled The Return of the Dark Light Mother
| Quote: | | zoomer wrote: | Does this Ian Crane --for all his supposed knowledge of anceint history. Does he even acknowledge the role of psychedelics in this history?
YEt they hold centre stage! |
Ask him.
|
yes I will.
| Quote: | | zoomer wrote: | | In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations, |
Probably. Mystics have experiences which give them insights. They then talk or write about these (which is extremely difficult to do in a way which people who have not had such experiences can understand) Such writings, especially if they were written long ago, no matter how imperfectly they are understood, then become institutionalised as infallible scriptures of various belief systems, often altered by the powers that be to suit their political agendas.
It is however also possible to achieve such trancendental states of mind without herbal or chemical catalysts through disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, diet, excercise etc |
Actually psychedelic experience is very different from so-called mystical states. And the latter are fairly rare. Which is why from time immemorial anceint people, Indigenous peoples have used psychedelic drugs as a means to contact a deeper sense of self.
So-called 'mysticsm' follows entheogenic use. there are tales that when certain psychedelic vegetation became scarce, that methods would be used to hiopefully trgger spiritual experience.
But you know, this is complex because we have two very different attitudes towars psychedelic vegetation. From a Goddess religious understanding, sacred vegetation--as was ALL vegetation, etc--was a gift from the BODY of the Goddess, and so any experience as AWE of Nature.
But with the more philosophical 'mysticism' there happened the male-supremacist idea that 'truth' was above, away from Nature, in the stella regions, in a 'spiritual realm'. So the set&setting of their relationship with psychedelic substances would have mostly fortified their assumptions.
| Quote: | | zoomer wrote: | | especially, maybe, the sacred mushroom. For this understanding it's important to read John Allegro in his The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross |
I tried reading that but found it impossible to complete.
|
LOL.....I have read it so many times, it has come apart. This book was a MILESTONE of a book for me. It really turned me onto wanting to understand mythology better.
| zoomer wrote: | | in it he --being a philologist, and one of the picked people to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, translates the 'fallen angels' to mean the very psychedelic mushrooms. The anceints didn't know about mushroom spores so many assumed they miraculously came from ABOVE----hint hint 'fallen', they were also known as 'angels'......?? because taking them can give the experience of contacting higher intelligence! |
Possibly.
| zoomer wrote: | | So, isn't this more plausible than imagining some 'supeior race' comes down to make us slaves, and all that junk! The only slaveholders here are HUMANS who because of being greedy and grabbing land and money begin beliving they are gods, especially if they take these shriooms----ie., their set&setting would be negative, and would excacerabte their already self-aggrandizement |
I don't like the superior race theory at all; it sounds horribly fascistic, though it may be true. I would like to see some incontrovertable proof of it. Without that I am not prepared to accept that the powers that be are anything more than ordinary people with wealth and arrogance, who manipulate the populace through various networks of secret and semi-secret societies and through the money system.
|
Yes, exactly. Just a bunch of awful arrogant people who spend a huge slice of their wealth on mindcontrol. So we have to be very wary of all their scams. Because there are many indeed!!
I believe the birth of the Internet at this time gives humanity the potential to overthrow the grip that the PTB have on our minds and to usher in a new age of peace, truth, justice and sharing. I see the advent of the internet as equivalent to the advent of the written word at the birth of civilisation and of the printing press at the birth of the European Renaissance. But that's a hunch and a hope; I can't prove it.[/quote]
Yes, I agree. So it is imortant to use it---------------while we have time. because there has been threats to stop it from some corporations with government agreement. because sa said, these people want FULL spectrum control. So we have to use it like there no tommorow and explore EVERY avenue of their matrix. truly expose these people who want to destroy everything,because they are a longtime soul dead.
_________________
keep asking questions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zoomer wrote: | | xmasdale wrote: | Hi Zoomer
I think it is important to realise that, though intriguing, proof of the fact that we have been lied to about 9/11 does not depend on occultist stuff. Publicly to link 9/11 to occultist research, particularly within the 9/11 Truth Campaign, deters many potential supporters from taking the Campaign seriously, as in their view and the view of the media and politicians, those who take the occult seriously are delusional. This stuff tends to divide opinion within the Campaign and therefore in my opinion should be kept separate.
|
This is VERy important point you raise. I learned very early the hostility talking about occultism in regard of 9/11, and the politcal ruling elite world in general can unleash. One forum I was at www.sciforums.com --where i was trying to convert the sci-atheists , I began encouraging the exploration of the OCT. of course I got some stick, but it was when I brought up occultist clues is when the ------err adults turned into poop throwing maniacs. Some would openly insult me with hige text, etc with intention of closing down the threads, which is what happened. Really strange.
I respect you opinion, but my way is this. Things are So VERy bad, and urgent now. More so than we can imagine what with apsychopathic mindset running riot all over planet Earth. That for my part, there can be no holding back with whatever I feel the need to BE aware of in freedom...............? And to openly encourage others to be aware of. OTHERWISE myths continue to be spun. What I mean is that already the Truth movement as I explained has different poinsts of view exploring it. So , for example, there are Christians who see what is happening apcocalyptically, and they quote biblical passages from Revelations and so on. And it is many of these that have pointed out the occultist symbols being used by the elite. As well as questioning the OCT.
Then we have the David Ickian type perspective where he will speak of the elite being shape-shifting reptiles in contact with alien intelligences, and he also mentions about their occultist connection with anceint knowledge, etc.
then we have those who just focus on the actual event---what I call the 'nuts and bolts' of the happening, such as David Ray Griffin. Now, would I hound Professor Griffin to include in his talk about the occultist clues?..........NO. Why? Because what he is doing is INVALUABLE. How he meticulously exposes the OCT's 'facts'. And it would be incongrous to expect him to go into this area.............But this doesn't mean that members of the Truth Movement should believe that the exploration of occultist clues is harmful to the Truth Movement, in regars it will 'divide' the Movement. |
I don't say it is harmful to the Truth Movement, but harmful to the 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain and Ireland) which is trying to address the general public, politicians and the mainstream media. Most of our supporters don't seem to understand the difference. IMO the names are too similar. We need a clearer separation between the Campaign and the wider movement.
| zoomer wrote: | | No. Rather I encourage for myself, and thus for others a flexible approach. Do not stifle your curiousity about all of this, nor in others. |
I have no intention of stifling my or anyone else's curiosity, but I know what I want to work on: producing a campaign with a public face which is not anathema to most of the public and the media. If the campaign bombards them with information about every cover-up that exists in the world, they will not listen, the press will ridicule and we shall not make progress.
| zoomer wrote: | But if it's not your bag then don't go there. But allow others to. Allow freedom, because the elite wants total control!!!
people are fearful of the occultist stuff because of its unfamiliarity. I was very disturbed when I found hints about it, soon after 7/7 actually. |
I think you misunderstand me here. You can speculate on this forum, which is a free-for-all, on any aspect you think has a baring on 9/11 and false flag terrorism, but the 9/11 Truth Campaign itself has to concentrate on the core evidence which proves we have been lied to about this. If we bring in theories which are controversial and peripheral, we shall minimise the number of people who take this campaign seriously. Let's take: beam weapons from outer space, HAARP, UFOs, illuminati, crop circles, chemtrails, Zionist plots, weather modification, deliberate policies of population reduction, end times, the Rapture, the Mayan calendar, ascended masters, aliens, the Greys, the Alice Bailey teachings, Urantia, nephilim, Annanuki and those bloody shape-shifting lizards. If you confront newcomers with all of that, even if some of these issues appeal to some of them, others of these issues will make them steer well clear of the Campaign on the grounds that in their opinion it is run by a bunch of hippy-dippy delusional nutcases.
The first time I heard about those lizards was from a friend who was trying to persuade me that the UK should withdraw from the EU. "On what grounds?" I asked.
"Well, you see," he replied, "The world is run by shape-shifting lizards."
At that point he lost me. It is a general maxim that if you want to persuade someone of something you need to start from facts that they accept. If you bombard them with theories that they don't accept as facts, even if all of them are true, rather than persuading them you lose them completely.
With evidence such as the collapse of WTC7 or the USAF failure to follow normal procedures and intercept planes within 10 minutes, who needs to bolster their argument with lizards?
You can argue that it goes down well with Ickeites, and indeed it does, but they are on board anyway. David Icke kindly allowed me to run a 9/11 Truth stall at his Brixton Academy gig last year and at it we got rid of more material than we have ever done at any other event - not surprisingly - Ickeites are already into 9/11.
To make a serious impact on public opinion we need to convince the millions of people who won't touch the esoteric stuff. That is why the Campaign for 9/11 Truth (Britain and Ireland) has set up two new websites to present the core evidence to the public: http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ and 911action.net. The latter is currently suffering from hacking, but we will get it running eventually.
nineeleven.co.uk will be renamed and rejigged to broaden its remit. It will probably remain the most interesting discussion forum on false-flag terrorism.
| zoomer wrote: | | I would have loved to have met her [Monika Sjoo]. have you read her book which goes in depth, exposing the New Age/Illuminati? titled The Return of the Dark Light Mother. |
No. I read some of her earlier writing.
| zoomer wrote: | | In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations, |
| xmasdale wrote: | Probably. Mystics have experiences which give them insights. They then talk or write about these (which is extremely difficult to do in a way which people who have not had such experiences can understand) Such writings, especially if they were written long ago, no matter how imperfectly they are understood, then become institutionalised as infallible scriptures of various belief systems, often altered by the powers that be to suit their political agendas.
It is however also possible to achieve such trancendental states of mind without herbal or chemical catalysts through disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, diet, excercise etc |
| zoomer wrote: | Actually psychedelic experience is very different from so-called mystical states. And the latter are fairly rare. Which is why from time immemorial anceint people, Indigenous peoples have used psychedelic drugs as a means to contact a deeper sense of self.
So-called 'mysticsm' follows entheogenic use. there are tales that when certain psychedelic vegetation became scarce, that methods would be used to hiopefully trgger spiritual experience.
But you know, this is complex because we have two very different attitudes towars psychedelic vegetation. From a Goddess religious understanding, sacred vegetation--as was ALL vegetation, etc--was a gift from the BODY of the Goddess, and so any experience as AWE of Nature.
But with the more philosophical 'mysticism' there happened the male-supremacist idea that 'truth' was above, away from Nature, in the stella regions, in a 'spiritual realm'. So the set&setting of their relationship with psychedelic substances would have mostly fortified their assumptions.. |
I don't deny the power of psychedelics - they certainly changed my outlook.
| xmasdale wrote: | | I believe the birth of the Internet at this time gives humanity the potential to overthrow the grip that the PTB have on our minds and to usher in a new age of peace, truth, justice and sharing. I see the advent of the internet as equivalent to the advent of the written word at the birth of civilisation and of the printing press at the birth of the European Renaissance. But that's a hunch and a hope; I can't prove it. |
| zoomer wrote: |
Yes, I agree. So it is imortant to use it---------------while we have time. because there has been threats to stop it from some corporations with government agreement. because sa said, these people want FULL spectrum control. So we have to use it like there no tommorow and explore EVERY avenue of their matrix. truly expose these people who want to destroy everything,because they are a longtime soul dead. |
I quite agree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoomer
Moderate Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Manchester
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Quote: | I don't say it is harmful to the Truth Movement, but harmful to the 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain and Ireland) which is trying to address the general public, politicians and the mainstream media. Most of our supporters don't seem to understand the difference. IMO the names are too similar. We need a clearer separation between the Campaign and the wider movement.
|
No, I dont agree as long as it doesn't become incongruous. I.e, we have over here David Ray Griffin analyzing the lies................We have over there a video with hip soundtrack, showing the lies in ways that younger people can dig........................over there we have people talking about the esoterica side to it. Now I am interested in ALL these different approaches, and seeing that my main research interests years before 9/11 was mythology, when I see some people speaking about the esoteric aspects of 9/11 and the elite and I feel I don't agree, I want to bring this into peoples awareness. Cause you know dude..............go checkout the history of Nazism, and see the weird beliefs of the people at the top. So it is VERY important aspect of this inquiry indeed.
| Quote: | I have no intention of stifling my or anyone else's curiosity, but I know what I want to work on: producing a campaign with a public face which is not anathema to most of the public and the media. If the campaign bombards them with information about every cover-up that exists in the world, they will not listen, the press will ridicule and we shall not make progress.
|
I like you want the criminals exposed. And for that to happen, like you say, there has to be a concerted effort to expose the facts.
But there are layers to this that need examaining also. Ie., do you want to just expose the front players? What about the secret clubs they go to like Skull and Bones, etc? Doesn't all of that need close scrutiny too? There are facsts to be found out about all of that area too!
I think you misunderstand me here. You can speculate on this forum, which is a free-for-all, on any aspect you think has a baring on 9/11 and false flag terrorism, but the 9/11 Truth Campaign itself has to concentrate on the core evidence which proves we have been lied to about this. If we bring in theories which are controversial and peripheral, we shall minimise the number of people who take this campaign seriously. Let's take: beam weapons from outer space, HAARP, UFOs, illuminati, crop circles, chemtrails, Zionist plots, weather modification, deliberate policies of population reduction, end times, the Rapture, the Mayan calendar, ascended masters, aliens, the Greys, the Alice Bailey teachings, Urantia, nephilim, Annanuki and those bloody shape-shifting lizards. If you confront newcomers with all of that, even if some of these issues appeal to some of them, others of these issues will make them steer well clear of the Campaign on the grounds that in their opinion it is run by a bunch of hippy-dippy delusional nutcases. |
All oof this area needs intelligent investigation to sort out the nonsense from the relevant.
| Quote: | The first time I heard about those lizards was from a friend who was trying to persuade me that the UK should withdraw from the EU. "On what grounds?" I asked.
"Well, you see," he replied, "The world is run by shape-shifting lizards."
At that point he lost me. It is a general maxim that if you want to persuade someone of something you need to start from facts that they accept. If you bombard them with theories that they don't accept as facts, even if all of them are true, rather than persuading them you lose them completely.
|
You need: a) people investigating the actual 'nuts and bolts' of the OCT, and b) people who investigate the research done about the more esoteric side to this issue......................So, for examples, the David Icke group speak of 'reptiles' . So we inbvestigate--where does this myth come from. How does it relate to the elite, etc etc. That's what I am doing. I am not trying to hide what I am doing away from people as if they're kids. If they run they run.
| Quote: | With evidence such as the collapse of WTC7 or the USAF failure to follow normal procedures and intercept planes within 10 minutes, who needs to bolster their argument with lizards?
|
Well, please don't assume I AM saying 'lizards'. I am rather questioning that myth, and I want to encourage others too. And I am aware some people in the 9/11 Truth movement may be aware of all that, and some may believe in it. So it needs addressing.
But in the right time and place yes. Not to blurt out at a David Ray Griffin talk kind of thing, where it would be very incongrous.
| Quote: | | You can argue that it goes down well with Ickeites, and indeed it does, but they are on board anyway. David Icke kindly allowed me to run a 9/11 Truth stall at his Brixton Academy gig last year and at it we got rid of more material than we have ever done at any other event - not surprisingly - Ickeites are already into 9/11. |
I keeps saying,,,I am challenging them and their beliefs, as I challenge the OCT.
| Quote: | | zoomer wrote: | | I would have loved to have met her [Monika Sjoo]. have you read her book which goes in depth, exposing the New Age/Illuminati? titled The Return of the Dark Light Mother. |
No. I read some of her earlier writing. |
Try if you can to read it!
_________________
keep asking questions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simonralli
Minor Poster
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 54
|
| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi folks. I am coming along to this.
Just so the WY Truthers know, I have been promoted at work which is good but still having to do my old job too till the post gets filled. I am also in the process of being relocated to Gibraltar, so too much has been taking up my time.
But this programme looks excellent, and I will deffo be coming along to lend some support and hear the speakers.
Si |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Emmanuel
Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 434
|
| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Any reviews please? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Craig W
Validated Poster
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
|
| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A surprisingly fascinating thread. Amazing where a thread can go, isn't it? 
_________________
"Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ants
Validated Poster
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorkshire
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
While 911 was referenced consistently as an anchoring event, these five presentations went far and wide, and represented some of the best of the truth movement I've witnessed.
Ian Crane's was a tour de force, with an energy out there like the likes of Icke.
Thankfully his presentation was filmed,
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Craig W
Validated Poster
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
|
| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just checked out your presentation, Ants.
WOW!
Very stimulating and impressive. Thanks.
_________________
"Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
|
| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Craig W wrote: |
Just checked out your presentation, Ants.
WOW!
Very stimulating and impressive. Thanks. |
Even better in the flesh. At last I started to understand what he was going on about. Synchronistically, I was watching a bit of a Len Horowitz video this evening (do I really have to obsess for so much of the time over this? is this really my path? Hadn't I had enough by now?) which really seemed to tie in with Ants' piece, but it's this time of night and I'll have to come back to this
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skeptic
Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 485
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ants
Validated Poster
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorkshire
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here are the links to the presentations from the Leeds Truth Festival.
It's not the same without the the speeches, video/audio clips and debate though. If you missed out then try to get along to another Truth Event soon! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
