Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:
Very disturbing presentation, Disco Destroyer.
I had a friend who was a Scientologist. I was an electrician for a while and this guy was a painter and decorator, a very successful one, who made loads of money in Belgravia. Also, he was a really decent and funny character but I came to learn that he had come from a 'difficult' family.
During tea-break one day I couldn't help noticing that his tobacco tin had a replica of Salisbury Cathedral built onto it, made out of matchsticks. I thought to myself, "I wonder where you found the time to do that?"
The Scientologists 'got him' just after he was released from prison. He became completely committed to them....to working his way through various 'auditing' programmes and so on. He told me the cost. I nearly fainted. In spite of the fact he was employing people and making thousands of pounds per week (not all of it his of course), he was always talking about paying off his 'debts'. It all seemed quite mad to me. He once explained the history of humanity (Scientology version) to me....I forget the details but there was some planet and 75 million years involved....it all made David Icke sound like a restrained and conservative thinker.
Blimey.
The funny thing was that, apart from that, he was a completely normal working class type of chap....Oh, except he used to spend 80 quid a week on lottery tickets. He believed he could win the jackpot through sheer will power.
He really believed it.
Mind you, I haven't seen him in 10 years, since rewiring part of his house, and for all I know he did win the jackpot and got millions. If so, I am fairly sure most of it would have found its way into the 'Church's' hands though.
Scientology's 'auditing' procedure is a powerful and probably quite efeective process in some ways similar to Roman Catholic'Confession'. However, this is obviously a church with its own 'sacraments' (for building confidence) but absolutely no parallel philosophy or framework that we would recognise as moral. Anything goes for the thieves (and worse) running this scam.
personally i dont have a problem with scientology
reason
they are not looking to harm me or other people
i would also suggest that the more people in hollywood that become scientlologists the better it is for the world at large.
You see hollywood is controlled and populated by very strong zionists. There is no alternative spin or view put forward that the dominant view. Tom Cruise and travolta make movies which are different like 'eyes wide shut' and hopefully the more scientologists in the media the less controll the zionists will have. This is probably what the BBC are afraid of.
I agree DISCO that the facts redgarding it are odd. But i cant see the harm in it and it appears to keep people away from drugs and booze. _________________
personally i dont have a problem with scientology
reason
they are not looking to harm me or other people
i would also suggest that the more people in hollywood that become scientlologists the better it is for the world at large.
You see hollywood is controlled and populated by very strong zionists. There is no alternative spin or view put forward that the dominant view. Tom Cruise and travolta make movies which are different like 'eyes wide shut' and hopefully the more scientologists in the media the less controll the zionists will have. This is probably what the BBC are afraid of.
I agree DISCO that the facts redgarding it are odd. But i cant see the harm in it and it appears to keep people away from drugs and booze.
Scientologists are a subset of the criminal elite
A derivative cult _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
Is Scientology a Religion? Is Scientology a Cult? What's the difference? Well given that a religion is simply what a cult evolves into when it acquires enough temporal power (minds and cash) that it becomes a power block within the state, Scientology appears to be in transition between the two: but to my mind Scientology even closer resembles a secret society
It has a hierarchical pyramidical structure, layers of initiation, obsessive compulsive authoritarianism.... it may very well have started as L Ron Hubbard's joke... equally it appears to me to be L Ron muscling in on the scam's run by "the big boys": but its not any longer, Hubbard’s been dead for 20 years, and here is an organisation not only with someone in charge, but with a very definite agenda: and old story, ever more increasing power and control
Its in the attitude to psychiatry that Scientology betrays itself as a classic mystery school secret society. Although I might agree with the notion that the vast majority of big pharma psychiatric drugs are an unnecessary barbarity, I do so based on the tradition of Jung and Laing: Scientology, in contrast, is out to destroy psychiatry, as evidenced by its LA exhibition apportioning blame for the holocaust to psychiatry, its practitioners and their theories
What happens when we compare the two?
Scientology: initial encounter: get diagnosed with serious personality problems. Solution: pay for scientology courses. Keep paying for courses, go up the "levels": reach a high enough level, be declared "clear" (free of the problem scientology told you you had in the first place): minimum many years and $200,000, though can be a lot more
Psychiatry: initial encounter: get diagnosed with serious personality problems. Solution: pay for psychiatric therapy. Keep paying for therapy, release repressed issues: have enough therapy, be declared "healthy" (free of the problem psychiatry told you you had in the first place): minimum many years and $200,000, though can be a lot more
The two look like opposites, but are actually opposames
What else, at its heart, is Scientology but the mechanics of psychiatry stripped out, given a spin with a bit of mysticism and resold?
Which explains why Scientology wants to destroy psychiatry so badly: it wants to remove from general consumption the knowledge stream on which its power is based
_________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:45 am Post subject:
stelios wrote:
.....But the fact is they are not harming us......
Join them and they will harm you...and anything that harms one of us harms all.
stelios wrote:
...I would say in many ways atheism is more dangerous.
An interesting and challenging statement. As a believer, I would agree but I am struggling to justify this position rationally.
......Perhaps this will do. A believer should hold as the greatest good a God-given perfect ideal to follow and serve. An atheist's ideal will be necessarily man-centred and, therefore, less perfect in the imagined state.
Of course, many believers discredit their faith by interpreting it in a way that serves self rather than the Godly ideal. The atheist, who does not acknowledge a higher will than his own will inevitably do the same.
I bet you've started another row now Stelios and I've just made it worse.
The atheist, who does not acknowledge a higher will than his own will inevitably do the same.
Says who?? What has a "will" to do with anything? It is perfectly possible to have no belief in a God but behave courteously and considerately to one's fellow men. If only those with religion would do the same rather than slaughtering millions in the name of their God. Atheism is not a movement like a religion - it does not have members or motives. It is not a belief system any more than not believing there is an elephant in orbit is a belief system.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:
blackcat wrote:
It is not a belief system any more than not believing there is an elephant in orbit is a belief system.
I will assume for now BC that there was no intended insult in your comment directed to His Supreme Celestial Jumboness _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
The atheist, who does not acknowledge a higher will than his own will inevitably do the same.
Says who?? What has a "will" to do with anything? It is perfectly possible to have no belief in a God but behave courteously and considerately to one's fellow men. If only those with religion would do the same rather than slaughtering millions in the name of their God. Atheism is not a movement like a religion - it does not have members or motives. It is not a belief system any more than not believing there is an elephant in orbit is a belief system.
I tend to agree, BC. And I would not describe myself as an atheist. While I don't believe in God, I am more of an agnostic. I find a faith-based belief in a creator irrational and improbable. But I acknowledge the impossibility of knowing whether it is really true or not.
That said, I feel that we are more than our physical bodies, more than just the sum total of our physical parts, and ultimately we are all One. I find when listening to religious words that often if I replace the word God with Love, the One, or the Universe that I have no problem agreeing with what is being said.
An absence of a belief in God does not lead one to behave immorally any more than a belief in God leads one to behave morally. _________________ "Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:58 am Post subject:
The way I see it there are two hard-wired spiritual sources of good and evil which mankind ignores at its peril. As humans we can tap in to either.
To be genuinely good is not what one might call 'easy'. Most languish in the atheist, no-man's land' middle and that's where the modern mass media drives people.
The more faith we show in God the more that love and trust is returned.
Scientology is an extremely dangerous cult, akin to the cults that spawned Nazism.
Quote:
http://www.german-way.com/religion.html
...the German government does not regard Scientology as a religion at all. Instead it sees a dangerous cult movement and a threat to German society ...
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject:
Craig W wrote:
That said, I feel that we are more than our physical bodies, more than just the sum total of our physical parts, and ultimately we are all One. I find when listening to religious words that often if I replace the word God with Love, the One, or the Universe that I have no problem agreeing with what is being said.
Well, yes.
God is just another word to describe such a reality. But the point is that such an 'other' reality does exist. This cannot be proved by argument but it can be experienced. Such experiences normally comes to people at moments of absolute desperation, despair or near-death. At these times people experience an ecstacy of overwhelming love, a sense of the unity and connectedness of all things, a 'knowing' that is beyond words or even thought...... It is impossible for people who have experienced this not to affirm with confidence that there is a God.....though we are incapable of knowing or describing 'God's' nature. Our little minds are too small.
Craig W wrote:
An absence of a belief in God does not lead one to behave immorally any more than a belief in God leads one to behave morally.
In mundane ways, perhaps not.....but when push comes to shove and self-sacrifice is called for surely faith will help a person do the right thing?
when push comes to shove and self-sacrifice is called for surely faith will help a person do the right thing?
Why? Will a Muslim suicide bomber slaughtering Jews in the name of revenge or justice be deemed the "right thing"? It is certainly self-sacrifice and the bomber surely believes in his God. There is zero reason to believe that a God believer will act any more in the "right" way than a different God believer or someone who does not believe in a God. In many ways the atheist, as someone who sees him/herself as insignificant, is more likely to act humanely and with humility, as opposed to someone who has such a huge ego they believe they are made in God's image and that God has a plan for them in the eternal hereafter.
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject:
blackcat wrote:
.....as opposed to someone who has such a huge ego they believe they are made in God's image and that God has a plan for them in the eternal hereafter.
Do you really believe that this is what ego is all about?
Any Christian who blows himself up to 'kill the enemy' would be acting in absolute opposition to Christ's command...."Love your enemies". It is this unique (as far as I can make out) demand on the Christian that makes Christ's teachings the nearest of any to the spirit of God who IS Love..."You must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect".....
.....how can you identify such teachings with wickedness. The fact that some people use the Bible to justify violence tells you nothing about Christ but a great deal about the mind of weak and tormented humanity.
[Why? Will a Muslim suicide bomber slaughtering Jews in the name of revenge or justice be deemed the "right thing"? It is certainly self-sacrifice and the bomber surely believes in his God. There is zero reason to believe that a God believer will act any more in the "right" way than a different God believer or someone who does not believe in a God. In many ways the atheist, as someone who sees him/herself as insignificant, is more likely to act humanely and with humility, as opposed to someone who has such a huge ego they believe they are made in God's image and that God has a plan for them in the eternal hereafter.
firstly to blow oneself up is the greatest sin a muslim can commit which is why 99.999999% of them dont do it.
killing fellow humans whatever the reason, murder, revenge, abortion, euthanasia, is also forbidden in Islam
and as you know 95% of what islam says is the same as what the bible says
It is also forbidden for christians to commit suicide or to take revenge and murder.
So a person who genuinely believes in god will always be aware any action he commits will one day be judged _________________
[Why? Will a Muslim suicide bomber slaughtering Jews in the name of revenge or justice be deemed the "right thing"? It is certainly self-sacrifice and the bomber surely believes in his God. There is zero reason to believe that a God believer will act any more in the "right" way than a different God believer or someone who does not believe in a God. In many ways the atheist, as someone who sees him/herself as insignificant, is more likely to act humanely and with humility, as opposed to someone who has such a huge ego they believe they are made in God's image and that God has a plan for them in the eternal hereafter.
firstly to blow oneself up is the greatest sin a muslim can commit which is why 99.999999% of them dont do it.
killing fellow humans whatever the reason, murder, revenge, abortion, euthanasia, is also forbidden in Islam
and as you know 95% of what islam says is the same as what the bible says
It is also forbidden for christians to commit suicide or to take revenge and murder.
So a person who genuinely believes in god will always be aware any action he commits will one day be judged
Correct. What we witness in, say, Iraq' are multiple false flags daily decimating the indigenous population and taking out sizeable chunks of the 'enemy' ie GIs, at the same time. Its a commie setup. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com
In Iraq every day there are many bombs killing hundreds of iraqis.
But the trick that Britain, America and their Israeli masters use is call a bombing a 'suicide' bombing.
Exactly the same way every time clinton used to bump someone off it was called a convenient suicide
George Bush has carried on the same technic with the women he allegedly raped who conveniently shot herself in the head before the trial
And blair when he bumped off david kelly called it a suicide. Poison and then just to make sure slit wrists in a forest.
Everyone knows a very very tiny percentage of killers are suicide bombers. You see most murders in iraq are committed by evil cowardly CIA people planting bombs in parked cars and setting them off by remote control. Then the media steps in and calls it a suicide bombing.
I am surprised they think the public will fall for this con over and over again. _________________
Is Scientology a Religion? Is Scientology a Cult? What's the difference? Well given that a religion is simply what a cult evolves into when it acquires enough temporal power (minds and cash) that it becomes a power block within the state, Scientology appears to be in transition between the two: but to my mind Scientology even closer resembles a secret society
... Agreed John, and as I have recently posted elsewhere, JFK's take on secret societies is the following:
Quote:
"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society. And we are, as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, secret oaths and to secret proceedings!"
I reference the great man's opening statement of the following speech...
Here we go again.
My thoughts on the subject>>>
Atheism says man is the highest authority.
A believer has respect for an even higher authority.
Life being an accident formed on a whole series of accidents fits conveniently with the atheists. The person that coined the term "big bang" didnt even believe in such a specualtion. There is intelligent design behind the whole of this creation.
By saying " i dont belive in God", means that there is a God for you not to agknowledge.
Did anyone else get a letter from Scientology this morning?
I got a letter from "Freedom TV" (with no mention of scientology at all) and the DVD of their response to the Panorama doc.
To be fair the BBC piece was clearly a hit piece and the guy did use some pretty low tabloid techniques, equally clear even from their own documentary is that the scientologists tried to get him to make a propaganda film for them and immediatley started bullying him when he didn't, spying on him, following him around, constantly abusing him and its no surprise he ended up losing it.
Sorry if this is "predjudice" but they're a shady bunch of nutters; just one mans opinion... _________________
No it does not. Atheists do not believe there is an "authority". Atheism therefore has no views on the subject.
Quote:
By saying " i dont belive in God", means that there is a God for you not to agknowledge.
Drivel. I do not believe there is an elephant in orbit around the Earth. This does not mean his Jumboness exists for me not to acknowledge.
Quote:
There is intelligent design behind the whole of this creation.
Who made the thing that made the intelligent design? Who made God? Or do we just believe that He always existed and is all-powerful so was able to create everything? Course - that makes PERFECT sense.
A coiuple of years back I visited a scientology church in the States as I was curious as to what nonsense they were peddling. I had been reading a little about Freud and I was aware that he had an unproven theory about the subconcious mind. I then found it interesting that a cult that was so against psychiatry was actually using the subconcious mind as a pivotal area of their training in self help. I asked them why they could use one of Freauds ideas (that had not even been proven) and they literally mumbled there way on to a different subject. I laughed at them, and left them a bit faced. They kept on trying to get me to take some test but I pointed out that the only questioned they were asking my mate where ones designed to bring about stressful thoughts.
An absolute joke of a company who pray on wekminded idiots and part them with their cash. _________________ SAPERE AUDE
i used to live in ferme park road
sam fox used to live in mount pleasant villas
never bumped into her
unfortunately
just thought i'd mention it
every religion has its good points and its bad
i cant criticise a religion unless it aims to harm others
ie: non members
from what i have seen of tom cruise, travolta, anne archer, etc they are harmless
they are not looking to harm me
they are not looking to invade and occupy my country
so good luck to them _________________
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:
Bongo wrote:
John White wrote...
Quote:
Is Scientology a Religion? Is Scientology a Cult? What's the difference? Well given that a religion is simply what a cult evolves into when it acquires enough temporal power (minds and cash) that it becomes a power block within the state, Scientology appears to be in transition between the two: but to my mind Scientology even closer resembles a secret society
... Agreed John, and as I have recently posted elsewhere, JFK's take on secret societies is the following:
Quote:
"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society. And we are, as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, secret oaths and to secret proceedings!"
I reference the great man's opening statement of the following speech...
"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society.
Thats it. Your spot on bongo, thats it in a nut shell
Scientology creates the illusion of being a religion: but it is not, it is uniquely berift of any spiritual truth: it is an organisation obsessed with temporal power in the material world, and gives a human no identity passed their own enrichment and their own survival, to be acheived by thought loyalty to the group
Should Scientology then be "fought" against?
No: its entirely unnesacary, though its justified to voice our thoughts about control systems like Scientology (of which there are many): humans have the right to question their society, and no-one can be immune to that
The correct action is to apply energy the most effective way, and that means communicating real spiritual truths to norish the people's passion for their own adventure, and thus remove their vunerability to having their flaws flattered with attention: all that is offered by both Scientology, and Psychiatry. When we do that enough, both will whither, becuase when we do that enough, Humanity becomes Healthy, and such tools will be unnessacary _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
I dont mean to go all philosophical but Kant had right when he said
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from self imposed immaturity ("Unmündigkeit", translated here as the phrase "immaturity and dependence") for which he himself was responsible. Immaturity and dependence are the inability to use one's own intellect[1] without the direction of another. One is responsible for this immaturity and dependence, if its cause is not a lack of intelligence, but a lack of determination and courage to think without the direction of another. Sapere aude! Dare to know! is therefore the slogan of the Enlightenment."
Therefore if anyone wishes to throw money at something in the hope of finding their own enlightenment, then I suggest they have fallen short of their own goals.
Oh well, their problem not mine. _________________ SAPERE AUDE
"Atheists do not believe there is an "authority". Atheism therefore has no views on the subject."
Everybody is a servant of someone,either their lover, their boss, their family or their senses. Are you serving the establishment the coat of arms, or is that an ironic ironic joke?
Those that believe in God, a person, or impersonalist mass of energy who is here eternally are more likely to be working under that authority. This is so much more powerful and potent that it is real threat to the NWO.
I dont think there is much of relationship with God in scientology more with bank accounts and mind control.
"Who made the thing that made the intelligent design? Who made God? Or do we just believe that He always existed and is all-powerful so was able to create everything? Course - that makes PERFECT sense."
Absolutely.
I dont think people should apologise for being philosophical.
In times of great deceit we need to keep asking the big questions and try to elevate ourselves out of this chaos and ill communication here on earth.
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