Might we unwittingly be perpetuating the worst case scenario

[AllThatWeSeeOrSeem]

The other title for this is “Revealed at last…Why they keep you locked on to fear, and use the media to feed fear to the masses every day!”

This is a serious question. I raise it at the risk of being scoffed at. And it is one I am struggling with at the moment. I speak as one who has tried to raise awareness about 911 truth through car stickers and free Graphic Design (posters, leaflets flyers,
(help yourself by the way…)

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t52/AllThatWeSeeOrSeem/911%20Truth% 20campaign%20Materials/

My point is that there seems to be a principle in the universe, which causes whatever we give our attention to - to grow or manifest. A
dream becomes a reality, a notion becomes an action, a repeated visualisation becomes manifest. In some mysterious way, I believe that mind affects matter and can alter physical phenomena:
• The two slit wave particle duality (electrons behave differently if they are observed. (Shroedinger’s cat)
• The random number generator experiments wherein people’s hopes and desires affect the statistical outcome (Dean Radin’s Conscious Universe)
• The experiements done with plants using polygraphs which show their susceptibility to malign intent (e.g. the thought of burning a leaf)
• Lynn McTaggart’s recent Intention experiment wherein 400 people sitting in a hall in London, changed the physical appearance of a leaf that was being monitored in a science lab 6,000 miles away - just by intending it so. http://book.theintentionexperiment.com/
• The prayer experiements wherein people being prayed for actually get well (more than the non prayed for group – even though they don’t know they are being prayed for!
• Research into Remote Viewing – wherein the powers of our perceptual apparatus is shown to extend beyond our bodies.
• The law of attraction which is that whatever you habitually visualise will manifest (especially if your programming is backed with strong emotions)
• Etc. There are many more examples

Now you may disagree or dismiss some of these, but if you look into this you will find that a pattern emerges which should give us pause for thought. If “The Intention Experiment” can make a leaf change 6,000 miles away, just by intending it so.

I think there may be a sense in which I don’t end where my skin ends, and our power to influence positively through our thoughts and emotions have not been fully explored.

For example, if we as (a collective of hundreds, maybe thousands) got into a relaxed state, and then imagined (fully using all the senses) a much better world. Could we start to influence the world for the better. My fear is that we might already be doing this (for the worse) by reminding ourselves daily of the bad things that are going on, and how bad it will be if the neocons get their way.

I am not advocating ignorance, and I am not in favour of pretending all is flopsie, mopsie and cottontail. But I am wondering if the mind, emotion and will, have powers that the new world order don’t wish you to utilise (or even discover).

Please notice whether you reject this out of hand without proper consideration. You might just be playing into the enemies hands.

Also worthy of consideration is this…How long are we going to keep digging the same hole deeper, instead of digging a new hole?

Love and peace,
AllThatWeSeeOrSeem
XX

[Fallious]

My general opinion on this, having read about a lot of the same experiments that you talk of and accepting the results as true, is that pure thought and visualizations can indeed alter reality in subtle ways. So as you say, it is certainly something to consider that we may well be generating discontent, fear etc.

The thing for me is that the alternative of having knowledgeable and caring people sit on their asses and do nothing, insisting that 9/11, fear, antisocial thought and such will vanish as a result (I've heard it claimed and demonstrated - apparently to little affect!) is just the most unpleasant and useless philosophy I've ever had the misfortune to be very briefly aligned with.

In practicality, the human ability to change things with their physical bodies and every form of protest and action that goes with it, is undoubtedly thousands of times more powerful than the intention alone. So if our thoughts do in some way add to the general unpleasantness, I would think we can easily counteract it with a little physical action

[marky 54]

i often think something along those lines myself. i often think the whole situation today is like a chess game, there are two moves people can make but both will have the same outcome "checkmate".

both situations can be used to bring about the goal those invisage that are trying to enslave humanity, we either go down the destructive path of wars and freedoms being restricted etc, or goverments are overthrown if the truth emerges and replaced with a one world goverment to ensure goverments cannot do what has been done again but it will be welcomed by the majority after learning the shocking truth about 9/11 etc.

all i know is there are certain things about 9/11 that do not add up or are wrong and lies have been told, knowing why that is the case or what the outcome would be if the truth did or didnt come out is harder to tell.

but if they are brainy or intelligant and i have no doubt they are, then i know which scenerio you have to consider being the one that will entrap people. the scenerio people will accept without knowing what they are excepting, but accept it through not wanting to fear and tired of wars etc.

at that point the truth comes out about 9/11, who can deny it then when all people want is peace and truth? who ever offers that solution would have there hands snatched of and nobody would think of the outcome.

creating fear and countless wars will make people want to disarm and want peace and be protected, doing those things would mean no way of fighting back to be free.

but if im wrong then ignoring the current situation would be costly to, so its one of those things that you dont know what to do for the best or who is on who's side.

[flamesong]

AllThatWeSeeOrSeem,

I'm not sure what to think about this but as you are evidently interested in it I thought you might like to see this, 'The Secret', from the makers of 'What The Bleep Do We Know?':

http://thesecret.tv

The film can be downloaded via BitTorrent - the torrent can be obtained here:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/320853

I had a lot of questions after watching it and posted some on their website but I can't say I got satisfactory answers.

Where are you in the northwest? PM me if you want.

[AllThatWeSeeOrSeem]

Firstly, I did track down the secret - and it does indeed tie in with my thinking (thanks Flamesong).

I think my position may have been misunderstood by others though. I am not advocating that we "sit on our arses and do nothing" - on the contrary I am advocating that we intelligently explore something that could potentially do MUCH MORE for the movement (by using our intent, and visualisation).

New-agey as it may sound - the SCIENTIFIC evidence supports the fact that the universe changes when we use our intent in this way.

I think it a shame that these new breakthroughs are so easily dismissed an unexplored. Especially when the tone is - "yeah, yeah, tried that - but let's get back to the real world..."

Also I think - if one studies the research ("The Field" / "The Law of Attraction" etc) then there is a very real chance WE are the enemy - that in fact most people in this forum are actually (unwittingly) perpetuating the emerging Neocon fascistic culture by focussing on it - intead of what we's prefer. Giving it energy - and attracting like for like.

I know this will be hard to consider, and some in the movement might be beyond such refelection - however it could also be our best hope.

Sincerely

[Emmanuel]

You have brought up a very sensible point there.
I used to criticise close friends for taking such an obsessive interest in anti nwo, 9/11 stuff and now I am getting drawn in too.
I think you have to balance it with feelings and thoughts of warmth, healing and love as well as feelings of anger, and despair when there is injustice in the world .
More on the law of attraction. And it is a scientific law.

"Cosmic Law - Attraction
This Law is a primary tool for the Soul to master physical life on the
Earth plane. It ensures that all conditions and situations that the
Soul desires for eventually mastering material reality are drawn to the
attention of the human intellect by virtue of the oneness of universe
energy.

The Law of Attraction is not understood by a five-sensory intellect
unintegrated by the wisdom of the Soul, and this has been reflected in
shortcomings in the principles, policies and practices of human
institutions such as government, slowing the evolution of human
consciousness and achievement.

Experiences perceived as "bad" by the survival-focused intellect are
viewed by the multi-dimensional Soul Mind as "lessons to be learned".
While the unintegrated intellect believes humans are "victims" of
negative situations in the material world, the Soul knows that humans
are co-creators of material reality and negative situations fuel
positive solutions.

Human government attempts to "rescue" those who, at the Soul level of
awareness, understand the negative-positive lessons of worldly existence
under Cosmic Laws and would choose not to be interfered with. A
stubborn intellect may require exceptionally negative and repeated
lessons to break onto positive levels to overcome self-defeat. This has
been witnessed particularly in "miraculous" recoveries from some
physical disorders.

It's a major lesson to understand that putting a negative, rather than a
positive interpretation on any situation, causes disorders in the
physical body. Just as a blood clot can block the flow of the vital
fluid and cause a heart attack, so can a blockage of negative thought
cause disorder in muscles, tissues, and cells. Energy needs to flow
freely. Whether a situation is personal, local, regional, national,
worldwide or extraterrestrial, negative interpretation can cause a
physical disruption of energy in some way.

Such is the Law of Attraction to the power of mind energy. A decision
to let go of negativity and "let God" is a handy release valve until one
accepts personal responsibility for the co-creating of conditions, and
knows that in the long term, "every experience is positive".

What is true of the microcosm, is true of the macrocosm. Negative
interpretation of any event can cause physical disorders from personal
to planetary, and beyond. Potency of the Law of Attraction throughout
the universe energy is such that all life is affected."

[mark_e]

I feel you have hit a very big nail on the head with your statement. It is really important to stay focussed on how YOU want to change the world around YOU. There are so many people with their heads stuck in the material / big brother completely unaware of their own capability to manifest. the power is most definitely in the word. i won't be the first person to say on here that stop the war would get further with their aims if they renamed themselves start the peace. what you put out as an intention will be created and words like stop and war are not creative in the right manner. Two quotes come to mind

"Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."

"be the change you want to see"

So, with regards to bumper stickers how about 'Investigate 9/11' as a good starting point as it sets out what we call for. I know it's been done before, but i feel that a positive affirmation of your intent is the strongest form of statement.

[Disco_Destroyer]

[John White]

I fully agree with the approach everyone is showing on this thread: focus on solutions is what it all has to come to: it is the only way to succeed

Funnily enough, considering how much I know about the darkness of the world, I'm commonly considered to be upbeat, positive, warm and joyful by people who know me: its been a long journey to get "there", but I've never felt better about humanity and the shape the future is going to be

My advice to anyone staring into the void is to know that the void stares right back: knowing who we are is therefore the very foundation of being able to contibute anything to humanity as a whole as we take our journey through this life

[Disco_Destroyer]

wow nice find, that also shows why Globalisation sounds good on paper and I used to think it would solve misery and war but it is clear that from todays struggles that, no matter their would still be bullies and self centered people clambering for power and wealth. Very good though and yes it is a change that has to come from the people, regardless of whether people change or not, change will be forced upon us eventually and it will be the powermongers and bullies that stand to lose the most

[Disco_Destroyer]

Also I'd add by changing our lifestyles slightly ensures less power goes to the top, use other forms of transport, change money needs, stop all unnessessary insurance policies (stealth Tax) buy local produce that is likely to be more wholesome anyway (buy it locally from the farm if possible) and so on!

[Long Tooth]

People can think of the lottery numbers 'hard' enough and the numbers will manifest right? Hogwash springs to mind but if you have the evidence for such miracles perhaps youd like to share it?

I'm sure theres millions around the world emmanating bad thoughts towards blair and bush everyday, wonder why they are still going strong? how many people does it take for the 'manifestations' to kick in?

It seems more and more people are being taken along for the ride by Icke et al?

apart from the lizard theology he espoutes, take a closer look at him and his ideals.

he pontificates about chemicals (aspartame etc) being harmful and effecting ones ability to function, and what does he do after most of his talks? downs pints of beer laced with aspatame etc? he preaches to be calm and rational and when hes in London he rants and raves at the police about CCTV.

theres always some new 'messiah' popping up, i have read a few of ickes books, sure he is a sloppy writer, his website is full of disinformation about egyptology, but he also writes some decent stuff on 9/11, the alice in wonderland book is okay even if very poorly written, articles all over the place etc. But to take his word on everything when he follows what seems to be interesting information mixed with down right disinformation is also very diserning.

But i think the poster starter has an answer, bury your head in the sand, imagine everything is smelling of roses, fantasice that everything is good, and it will happen and we will all go to utopia and live happily ever after.

how the powers that be must be laughing hysterically as nutters asscociated with 9/11 give them more ammo to hang the truth movement with.

[gericom]

David Icke is not to be taken too seriously in some things, but with 9/11 he's hit the spot.
Refering back to an earlier post in this thread about the power of mind over matter.
Yes, I believe in it. An example. During the Second World War when our army was stranded at Dunkirk, the New Forest Covens all clubbed together and "willed" for fair weather to enable us to make the perilous Channel crossing in relative safety. The small boats, (some of them river boats not built for sea use) all made the trip easily. (Some quite a few times).
The only danger was from the enemy, the weather stayed calm.

This was one of many examples where the power of the collective mind triumphed over adversity.

[John White]

[Long Tooth]

[John White]

Your mind would make it more likely to happen for one thing... but our reality is not the material things around us: (even lottery tickets and balls with numbers on them tumbling through a machine): they are just the framework on which our sense of reality is draped

A world moving towards War, or a world moving towards Peace?

A world moving towards Hate, or a world moving towards Love?

This is the reality that we create, both individually within ourselves, and collectively without

Becuase it is only in our minds that such a world exists

Such is the power of the Human Being

I'll tell you this truth about the lottery though:

If you think you'll never win it, and thus never play: you never will

[Emmanuel]

The lottery is a bad example if i may say so.
Its a scenario based on chance. Do your sums. Gambling is something quite different from focussing on something that you can truly visualise and achieve. Its true by buying a ticket you have a chance of winning.
Peace is achievable in the circles that you find yourself in. Walkign around thinking everyone is also an enemy only brings you more. I have tried this.
Communicating freely and positively with the all the people you come across in the space of a day is a promotion of peace. We can transcend even beyond words too.
Love, Jacob

[Emmanuel]

"Long tooth". do you have abnormally long teeth? maybe you should change your name to "very succesful lottery winner". As you name also reaffirms your reality.

[AllThatWeSeeOrSeem]

Long Tooth you appear to have misunderstood my initial posting...

You mention winning lottery numbers..I didn't.
You mention David Icke...I didn't.
You mention Lizard folk...I didn't.

you suggest I am advocating that we all just "bury our heads in the sand" but I made it clear in my first follow up posting that, that is the oppositte of what I am suggesting.

I am suggesting that we maximise our energy and place it where it might have the most leverage...namely through intention.

If you need proof that mind can affect matter in serious fundamental ways...

Research the famous "double slit" experiment with electrons (Quantum Physics)
Read about the Shroedinger’s cat paradox (Quantum Physics)
Read "Conscious Universe" by Dean Radin
Read "The Field" by Lynn McTaggart
Read about the Intention experiment http://book.theintentionexperiment.com/
Read "Beyond the Occult" by Colin Wilson
Read "Silva Mind Control" by Jose Silva

etc.

The proof is there, but it is a little unsettling.

It seems that in future, if science is to progress, then it will have to admit human consciousness as a factor. The universe is not clockwork, it is relative, and about relationships between things rather than the things themselves.

Space tells matter how to move, and matter tells space how to curve etc.

Perhaps a more concrete idea might be more useful. What if everyone in the Truth Movement synchronised a time / date when they all imagined (for 15mins) a much better world. An ideal and compelling tomorrow. A collective all using their intentional energy at the same time.

When Long tooth says "I'm sure there's millions around the world emmanating bad thoughts towards blair and bush everyday, wonder why they are still going strong? how many people does it take for the 'manifestations' to kick in?" he has perhaps not understood that bad thoughts towards an enemy will only feed that enemy with more energy. The Law of attraction works that way. Like attracts like. A parent shouting "Don't spill the milk" at a child is more likely to see it spilt, than a parent who says, "Well done you have kept all the milk in the glass" - see where the enery goes. Anyone struggling with this might imagine a newspaper headline that says "Ben Elton is not a shop-lifter!" - now where does that lead your thinking / energy?

I still maintain that we might actually be perpetuating the very things we profess not to want. In this respoect, this very web-site might be a dangerous place - where sincere people feed the misdeeds of their enemies.

I apologise if this is uncomfortable for many people, but I think the lateness of the hour requires such plain speaking.

Long Tooth, I wish you good things, and hope that you may understand my points.

[David WJ Sherlock]

[John White]

This is a General Conversation in the General Chat area. If we're afraid of "what people think" we might as well put our efforts into something much more controlled, like NO2ID: we are already "out there": but nice of you to respect my (and others) individual perspective David

[Emmanuel]

Politics starts with a thought. Which triggers an action. Which determines the life of another or a whole shift of consciousness. It works for positive outcomes too.

You either get it or dont.

[AllThatWeSeeOrSeem]

There is nothing new age about this. It is science

Electrons behave differently if we observe them, than if we don't. This fact may cause an emotional reaction and resistance in those who would wish it were not so.

Research the double slit electron experiment if you don't believe me.

The truth will not dissappear because someone refuses to examine it.

Dogma is Dogma, whether it comes from NeoCons or 911Truthers. It's dangerous from both.

Now will you examine the double slit electron experiment? Or will you keep resisting the findings of Science / Physics and the Quantum world.

The origins of my debate are scientific, not hippy, but I do have a soft spot for hippies too.

[Long Tooth]

[Emmanuel]

I assumed "long in the tooth"
but I was just makign a humourous joke. Should we stop asking questions then, to avoid looking stupid ?
Good luck with making your luck

[Long Tooth]

[AllThatWeSeeOrSeem]

Hi Long Tooth,

Thank you for your reply. I appreciated the tone and the content.

My resistance to your "we'd all win the Lottery" scenario was because I regard that as a crude reduction of the very measurable phenomenon of Intent having an influence (see previous references for Scientific Proof). I am not certain what the effect would be if everyone collectively "intended" the same numbers - it has not been tested. However I refer to the basic phenomena which have (as recounted in the materials I have referenced). Even if the Lottery example were an exception, it would not discredit any of the examples I have given. Furthermore if your lottery example became a reason NOT to investigate what I am asserting then it would be a shame (IMO).

Even if what I am saying is close to Icke - it does my argument a disservice, if I am made to fight his corner. This does not come from Icke - although many 911Truth debunkers would wish it did.

The double SLIT experiments with electrons behaving differently simply by the act of being observed, are well documented - I read about them in books by physicists (sorry I don't know any internet links - but I am sure there are plenty). You might try..

In Search of Shroedinger’s cat by John Gribbin, or
The Quantum Self by Dana Zohar

If I have been presumptious, then please forgive me; but your statement that-
"I'm sure there's millions around the world emmanating bad thoughts towards blair and bush everyday, wonder why they are still going strong? how many people does it take for the 'manifestations' to kick in?" - suggested that thinking bad thoughts towards your enemy would weaken their position (whereas I believe it would strengthen them).

I know nothing about "Ju-ju" - is it a person, an ideology, a martial art?

My example of a newspaper headline saying "Ben Elton is not a shoplifter" would associate the two in people's minds whether they were then resistant to the idea or not. Try not thinking of a pink elephant if you don't believe me.

Warm regards,

ATWSOS

[David WJ Sherlock]

[John White]

Your sure having a big reaction to a single thread David. If you want a real discussion about Geo Politics: start a thread about Geo Politics

Don't assume anyone posting in this discussion isnt just as capable of tackling that subject too, and putting forward all the "credible" answers that meet your approval

Seems to me you could do with opening up a little and letting go a little more

[David WJ Sherlock]