Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject:
Killtown wrote:
The bridge was on a ferry boat ride that morning:
You never cease to amaze KT.
I bet it has the headbangers over at "researchers" doing anything but on how zoom lenses work. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Killtown - simply put your hands together to form a circle with your fingers. Now raise them up so you are looking through the little circle at the room you are in. Choose an object about four feet away - look at the object through the circle. Now choose an object in the background, still looking through the little circle.
Whilst looking through the circle, and focusing on the near object, move your body (and your head), slowly to the left, look at the near object and with your peripheral vision, watch the object in the background appear to move with you to the left. You do not need to buy a ferry ticket for this to happen.
This is what happened with the bridge in the video - the helicopter/plane is moving to the left whilst keeping the tower in the centre of the frame.
Yeah I wonder why. Im sure the wildly different camera angles have nothing to do with it! ROFL
further away angle shot, straight inline with towers
bridge shows to the right hand side
iam pretty sure you would have seen that bridge in the live EDT
did that car bomb really explode in the news headline?
or was it propaganda by the cia or fbi abit like anthrax scare
you still believe your news
this is exactly the kind of thing that leaves me holding my head in shock.
so far it was claimed that the bridge moving is odd, which has been given an explaination. the explaination has not been proved wrong.
then we get given a photo of the towers with no bridge in sight, the angle given is only one of at least a possible 4 angles meaning the bridge could be visible if you look behind you or to the left or right.
then we are offered another picture with no bridge visible but this time the whole of the background is blocked out by huge plumes of smoke.
if the bridge is faked or was added i'm not seeing a very convincing arguement to prove it so far.
also if it is being claimed that the bridge was added to one video but not present in others it raises the following questions
why would the news network only add the bridge in one video shot and not all, not even the dumbest are that dumb surely.
if the bridge is only in one video shot it seems more likely it has been faked but not by the news networks, a web user having a laugh to wind up conspiracy theorists or to spread disinfo is more likely.
im poised for the outraged response for trying to bring some logic to this on the evidence provided so far. as yet nothing in thread proves a faked bridge or has disproved counter arguements or has ruled out someone else faking it for a laugh.
@ markyb ill try explain it as I go along
I have no agenda to trick photos
Chopper 5 was black ops kidding on it was fox 5 chopper
Chopper 4 was black ops kidding on it was nbc 4 chopper
The 2 live choppers failed on the day
Chopper 5: wescam makes plane nose come outside wtc2, but was soon
corrected within 10 mins by the edited version.
Chopper 4: wescam couldn’t have been ready must have failed at the moment and allowed the UAV to pass, so they then send the delayed live picture back NBC with just a blur and also same with wb11 live local fixed camera, remember there in control of the whole airwaves problay by the white elephant 3rd plane
so what hit the tower !!!
the 2nd tower was hit by a stealth UAV almost like a glider traveling well under 300 mph, as the 2nd explosion occurs a plane passes on right when out of you sight, it must release a missile but it goes over towers and out of shot. but somehow they made the missile to look like a slow chopper, once it pass's tower (very cleverly done)
but you can see the glitch when its changing into a slow heliperb
Missile
its not even professional but it fooled 99.9%
the CNN shots and FOX don’t even line up with the flight path
shown by WB 11, NBC4 CBS wich are the real live pictures.
I could pick out many camera positions and there all from same camera
sold to different channels with all there own logos on the footage.
i appreciate you taking the time to explain what is being claimed on other aspects of the theory/theories, however i was only calling into question the evidence for the bridge being either faked or something being odd about the way it moves in my original post.
don't think im not greatfull for you explaining what you just explained however, im not saying anything you just said is untrue nor do i know it is true without ferther evidence for the claims, but.....
upon examining the image in the post above i don't quite understand how the circled object could be a missle, firstly the shape and apperance looks the same as some of the other objects on the water which to me look like boats from a distance. secondly both towers have already been hit and are on fire.
so im a bit lost as to what is being claimed there, and also a bit confused how the object can be called a missle when it looks the same as the other objects on the water.
There are two issues at play here, and one important point.
Issue one, tele has already outlined, the camera is in a moving object, a helicopter probably, and the WTC is being kept centre frame, meaning that as the plane moves, the camera is being titled to keep the buildingsin the centre, so both the angle on the twin towers and the relating back ground, is constantly moving even though the WTC stays in roughly the same position on screen. The exact same thing is happening in the guy going hysterical outside the WTC shot, which you all claim is PROOF of fakery, because the man stays in the centre of shot and the back ground moves.
The second issue is that the background seems to shift as the angle on the WTC stays roughly the same. This has to do with using the zoom to keep the tower the same size while the copter drifts away. This "vertigo" shot has been used in many movies as a natural special effect, most famously in Vertigo and in Jaws. It makes the background move radically while the object in focus (depending on how well it is done) stays in the exact same position.
When I as a kid and I first saw Goodfellas I was convinced that the set in the diner was on wheels and moving towards the background. That was before it was explained to me how simple camera functions such as the zoom can acheive optial illusons like this. Time for you guys to catch up maybe.
The important point, is that this TV fakey business, as I understoo it, was to create impacts of boeings into buildings where there were none, right?
Has it not occurred to any of you that you re actually refuting yourselves now by starting to come up with clips that show footage of the buildings smoking, and their collapse…… WHY?????? Are you really claiming that the building did NOT smoke, that the buildings did NOT collapse? Where was the need to fake these images? Do these questions even cross your mind???
It seems to me that these perceieved irrgularities come from jumping on technical issues you don't understand, and the fact that you have started to spot them in clips which there woud have been no need to fake, disprove that they mean anything in the clips involving planes.
either stephens evidence should be proved wrong or it should be admitted that stephens evidence is very possibly right putting an end to the speculation of the bridge that has been bought up numerous times in the past with the same answers.
however this will not happen, it will either be ignored and people continue to post about the bridge being faked. the subject will be changed or nobody will reply for a few months but instead start a new thread about the bridge when this one is forgot about.
@ markyb ill try explain it as I go along
I have no agenda to trick photos
Chopper 5 was black ops kidding on it was fox 5 chopper
Chopper 4 was black ops kidding on it was nbc 4 chopper
The 2 live choppers failed on the day
Chopper 5: wescam makes plane nose come outside wtc2, but was soon
corrected within 10 mins by the edited version.
Chopper 4: wescam couldn’t have been ready must have failed at the moment and allowed the UAV to pass, so they then send the delayed live picture back NBC with just a blur and also same with wb11 live local fixed camera, remember there in control of the whole airwaves problay by the white elephant 3rd plane
so what hit the tower !!!
the 2nd tower was hit by a stealth UAV almost like a glider traveling well under 300 mph, as the 2nd explosion occurs a plane passes on right when out of you sight, it must release a missile but it goes over towers and out of shot. but somehow they made the missile to look like a slow chopper, once it pass's tower (very cleverly done)
but you can see the glitch when its changing into a slow heliperb
Missile
its not even professional but it fooled 99.9%
the CNN shots and FOX don’t even line up with the flight path
shown by WB 11, NBC4 CBS wich are the real live pictures.
I could pick out many camera positions and there all from same camera
sold to different channels with all there own logos on the footage.
You sure that's not just a boat? _________________ SAPERE AUDE
Killtown - simply put your hands together to form a circle with your fingers. Now raise them up so you are looking through the little circle at the room you are in. Choose an object about four feet away - look at the object through the circle. Now choose an object in the background, still looking through the little circle.
Whilst looking through the circle, and focusing on the near object, move your body (and your head), slowly to the left, look at the near object and with your peripheral vision, watch the object in the background appear to move with you to the left. You do not need to buy a ferry ticket for this to happen.
This is what happened with the bridge in the video - the helicopter/plane is moving to the left whilst keeping the tower in the centre of the frame.
ROTFL!
Mind you - perhaps it was a little bit cruel to shatter his illusions about the "mysterious moving bridge" and how tv made it "look like it wasn't as far away as it should be" when he was obviously so excited about it. Bless....
the helicopter/plane is moving to the left whilst keeping the tower in the centre of the frame.
No, because the camera angle toward WTC itself doesn't change, nor does the view of the top of the building (WTC-7?) in the lower left corner. Also, WTC was not nearly that close to the V-N Bridge; the true separation exceeded six miles. I myself photographed that bridge from atop WTC, in 1988. My photo shows it as a minor feature in the distance, its north end terminating far south of WTC in Brooklyn; not a looming thing adjacent to Manhattan and extending up the East River.
Ray Ubinger
Durham NC USA
http://911foreknowledge.com
exposing the Naudet-FDNY snuff film since 2004
edited typo
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject:
I notice both Ray and Fred are still peddling the sadly mistaken idea that the Verrazano bridge, being 7 miles away, shouldn't appear in the original photo.
It's a bit like the Eiffel Tower or the Great Pyramid being there, according to the ever imaginative Fred.
Fred, by the way, is the "researcher" and ... er ...'film maker', who understands nothing of how camera lenses or digital formats work.
I found this photo which illustrates very clearly the compression of distance effect of a telephoto lens.
The photo was taken on the runway at the Biggin Hill airshow last weekend (showing a 29 Sqn RAF Typhoon F2 for anybody interested), and according to Google Earth, the crow-flying distance to Canary Wharf Tower (the triangular topped building in the distance) is 12.75 of our British miles.
_________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
the helicopter/plane is moving to the left whilst keeping the tower in the centre of the frame.
No, because the camera angle toward WTC itself doesn't change, nor does the view of the top of the building (WTC-7?) in the lower left corner. Also, WTC was not nearly that close to the V-N Bridge; the true separation exceeded six miles. I myself photographed that bridge from atop WTC, in 1988. My photo shows it as a minor feature in the distance, its north end terminating far south of WTC in Brooklyn; not a looming thing adjacent to Manhattan and extending up the East River.
Ray Ubinger
Durham NC USA
http://911foreknowledge.com
exposing the Naudet-FDNY snuff film since 2004
edited typo
Ray,
I have already explained this-
Throughout this footage we see TWO different causes of the moving background, tower, one is when the copter is drifting to one side, then it tilts the camera angle to keep the building centre frame while the angle on both it and the background changes in relation to it and the other.
The other, which you have isolated in your gif, is when the copter is drifting away from the towers but is in much the same position, to keep the shot of the towers in frame they zoom in in sycnh with the drift out.
This is known as the "dolly zoom" or "vertigo" shot and has been used in films such as Vertigo, Jaws and Goodfellas to excellent effect as an artisitic device, here it is simply practical - keeping the trade centres the same size and in centre frame was the camera mans job, and all we are seeing if the effects of the techniques he used.
Ray,
Have you even considered how these latest fakery claims are undermining the whole point of fakery?
People noticed that (due to compression) parts of the plane appeared to disappear when passing over a part of the back ground of the same flat tone (obvious why really).
Some people, who have a prediliction for sci-fi explanations to everything, first the claim was that the planes were super imposed.
It was a claim without any definitive proof, so the "911 researchers" started looking for any irregularity in the compressed youtube films out there. They spotted things they thought proved the shots were fake such as-
* The "missing building" which was in fact right there
* A guess work belief that the back ground should be moving more or less when the camera moved
* Some birds which due to an inability to understand perspective, were apparently moving faster than a plane (actually at a perfectly normal speed in the for ground).
From this point the claim had to be extended - these irregularities were in the backdrop, not with the "super imposed" plane- so the claim appeared that the entire shots were computer generated using blue screens etc. Every spot on a video became a UFO, every bird became a missile. Everything and anything in any shot featuring planes was fake, and just like a human mind making a face out of any three marks, the more they looked the more they convinced themselves it was.
So that was stage two. This third stage is ridiculous.
As explained above, the "irregularities" in the plane shots were nothing of the sort, they were sometimes misunderstandings of perspective, sometimes compression glitches, sometimes misunderstandings of how cameras work. In fact they would appear in any youtube compressed film.
Finding these same "irregularities" in shots of 9/11 (or anywhere) else might lead a rational "researcher" to realise they were meaningless - but the opposite has happened, it has lead them to claim ALL SHOTS of 9/11 were faked.
Ray,
In your scenario - did the towers stand gushing smoke or not?
Were the towers destroyed or not?
You guys are coming up with shots of things that even you believe happened and claiming they are fake.
Indeed there is a growing trend of using "Fakery" as a "get out of jail card" for any evidence which doesn't fit in to your story.
Molten Metal pouring from the south tower? It's a FAKE SHOT!
Explain the beams of steel bending inwards? It's a FAKE SHOT!
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i dont see it in this live shot
