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TheTruth
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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In cause some Jews need to know the names of relatives who died at Auschwitz, many are listed at the links below:
Data from the Auschwitz Death Certificates.
In 1989, the Soviets released much of the German documentation, death certificates, roll-calls, cremation lists, etc, that they had found at Auschwitz, in January 1945. The Germans had simply left this documentation when they evacuated. The Soviets, came across it and conveniently "lost it" in their archives for some 45 years. In 1989, Gorbachev presented it to the Red Cross who then "lost it" in archives in Bad Arolsen, Germany.
The death certificates themselves, were official German documents, issued by Auschwitz camp doctors, upon the death of an inmate. Each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, cause of death, detainee number and a camp physician's signature.
The death certificates are mainly from the years, 1942 and 1943. There is some documentation from the year 1941, none from the year 1944, nor from January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated).
The death certificates record the names of 68,864 individuals, who died at Auschwitz (Birkenau), of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews.
65,305 of the 68,864 names recorded on the death certificates can be found at these pages on houston.indymedia.org
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W Y Z
35,228 (37,148) have their religion recorded as Christian (30,852 Catholic, 2,145 Protestant, 1,858 Greek Orthodox, 280 Czech-Moravian, 93 Eastern Orthodox). 28,511 (30,065) have their religion recorded as Judaism.
Since we have records for only 65,305 of the 68,864 death certificates, we give two figures for the statistics. The first statistic is that found from the 65,305 and the second (in brackets) is an estimate of that statistic, as if it had been collected from the full 68,864. More explicitly, the number in the brackets is the original number x 1.0545.
Having both the birth and death dates, we can calculate the age at death. The following is a break-down of the records by age. This is of interest, as Jews claim that the old, young, and anyone unfit for work, were immediately gassed on arrival at Auschwitz (and, of course, Jews claim, no record was kept of these killings, while careful records were kept of all other deaths). Clearly, this was not the case. It is particularly unlikely, that the three ladies over 90 years old, were fit for any sort of work.
Prisoners Age at Death
Age Group Number Percentage
- >90 3 0.005
80-90 69 0.1
70-80 457 0.7
60-70 1,975 3.0
50-60 7,625 11.7
40-50 14,710 22.5
30-40 17,477 26.7
20-30 14,064 21.5
10-20 6,368 9.7
00-10 2,450 3.7
Also, it is particularly unlikely, that the children pictured below, were fit for work. Since everyone in the camp suffered delousing on entry, everyone had their heads shaved. These children had been in the camp some time, at least long enough, for their hair to grow back. The photo was taken after the Russians occupied the camp. The Germans had evacuated some ten days earlier.
It is known that the International Tracing Service (an arm of the Red Cross) has copies of all the registration particulars from Auschwitz. This probably includes the daily roll-call documents, which contain registration details and daily death totals. In any case, it has had in its possession enough information to (unofficially) provide the following approximate statistics regarding deaths (from all causes, including, old age) at Auschwitz (this was long before the Soviet records were released):
Deaths at Auschwitz
Year Red Cross Certificates
1940/1941 19,500 -
1942 48,500 37,195
1943 37,000 28,727
1944 30,000 -
1945 500 -
Total 135,500 -
By comparison, the Auschwitz death certificates record 35,273 (37,195) deaths for the year 1942 and 27,242 (28,727) for 1943. Since the death certificates are known to be incomplete and the registration particulars, are known to be almost complete, the Red Cross numbers in the table, are the more accurate.
Directly, or indirectly, the Red Cross, through the International Tracing Service, has been the source of all the accurate estimates of deaths at the concentration camps. These estimates were based on the camp roll-call numbers (which included the daily death toll), cremation lists, etc, and a small number of the death certificates obtained by the allies after the war.
The Red Cross (International Tracing Service) has never provided statistics to the public, at large. This is because their numbers, totally contradict the HolyCo$t (holocaust) myth.
Charles Biedermann (Red Cross Delegate and Director of the International Tracing Service) testified (under oath) in a Canadian court case, that, as of December 31, 1976, the Red Cross had the names of only 357,190 individuals who died (of all causes) in the entire German concentration camp system.
Biedermann also confirmed that, as of December 31, 1983, that number had increased to 373,468 deaths (again, from all causes) in all of the Nazi camps.
Of course the Red Cross records are not complete, but you can be sure these numbers are a good approximation, and that the estimates of about 500,000 dead in the entire German concentration camp system (from all causes) are realistic.
Biedermann was presented with, and questioned about, a two volume work entitled Gedenkbuch. The Gedenkbuch is a German government document that records the names of those Jews known to have died in the German concentration camp system. It was presented as a gift from Germany to Israel, in 1962. The Gedenkbuch contains 129,000 names.
For more information on the Auschwitz death certificates, see "Death Books From Auschwitz", a three volume set, two of which are lists of individuals who died at Auschwitz. The information includes: name, date of birth, date of death, place of birth, inmate number. The lists are contained in volumes two and three. Volume one contains many photographs of the prisoners as well as many reports and photographs of various lists. The catalog number is *PXV 95-3344 and the books are located at the New York Public Library, in the Jewish Division on the first floor.
Wolfgang Kempkens, obtained copies of some 800 of the death certificates from sources in Poland and Russia. Reproductions of 30 of these death certificates appeared in the article "Pages From The Auschwitz Death Registry Volumes" by Mark Weber, Journal of Historical Review vol 12 p 265.
Pictured above, is a day by day record of Auschwitz deaths. A more detailed graphic can be seen by clicking here. The peaks coincide with known Typhus epidemics.
From http://bb.domaindlx.com/911TheTruth/ |
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ian neal
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kbo234
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | .....That the death figures may have been exaggerated for political purposes is of secondary importance IMO |
Well, yes and no.
In the same way that 9/11 is of less significance, in itself, than the Iraqi death toll, the bankers' money creation scam etc., etc......9/11 is the best way of exposing the fact that there is something very rotten in the state of Denmark.
The misinformation regarding Auschwitz 'numbers' is relatively easy to expose. The difference between the original 'narrative' and the more recently admitted reality is so surprising and shocking to anyone who accepted the '4 million industrially exterminated' story that one is bound to doubt everything and demand that the evidence be revisited. The more that are aware of this the better IMO.
| ian neal wrote: |
However discussing the tedious details of auschwitz will please 'them' no end. |
What is 'tedious' about this? Few revelations could be more significant. Much of our current political reality has been built on the foundation of the holocaust story. The USA, and its people, has supported Israel against Palestine and the arab world in a one-sided way that surely would never have been possible (given the murderous facts of life on the ground) without a population brainwashed by the holocaust story.
It is vital for us all that Jews begin to realise how Zionists, with the financial backing of their corporate/globalist sponsors, have violated not only the arab world (and what remains decent in the western world), but the Jewish people themselves.
Jews, one would surely expect, hate lies no less than the rest of us.
Last edited by kbo234 on Tue May 29, 2007 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rodin
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ian
I think we should set the record straight on the Holocaust because it was a crucial part of the criminal elite's strategy, and their hugely-promoted and much-milked version is so easily discredited.
And yes, many of the links you post are pertinent too.
You see, a system capable of pulling global hoaxes like
Holocaust
Moon Landings
911
etc
Has to be extremely well run, and involve a large and self-loyal group of people. If we cannot identify these people how can we fight back?
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rodin
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: |
Jews, one would expect and hope, hate lies no less than the rest of us. |
They make good troops - well rewarded, and given Talmudic laws that tell them they are superior. Takes a good one to turn their back on those earthly delights...
Luckily there are good ones
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Zionism’s Greatest Weapon: The Holocaust Story |
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| ian neal wrote: | | If you want a word that brings together and unites all the different isms that the PTB have invented to, that is ism is fascism, which I take to be the fusion of military, government, industrial/business and media power. In short the military industrial complex. |
Sounds exactly like Tony Blair's Britain
The media is simply a propaganda machine for New Labour policies.
The industrial conglomerates and private equity funds control everything including the NHS and also dictate which country gets invaded next and which ones are left alone. Our NHS s run by KPMG and Price Waterhouse and subcontracts goes to United Healthcare.
Tony Blair goes to Libya hand in hand with BP executives with whom the Bush and Bin Laden families controlled Carlyle group is heavily linked. BP recently sold all it's UK refinaries to Carlyle Group. Very strange for the second largest oil company in the world to flog it's refinaries.
BP was also kicked out of Iran when it was nationalised coincidentally and they are looking for a comeback. Iraq was run by Standard oil which is a BP subsidiary.
The problem is if the fascist states we now live in succesfully lie about the holocaust, and they lie about the moon landings and they lie about 911, then basically they control everthing about us from our brains to the toes on our feet.
They have successfully lied about the economy being BOOMING when in reality we are in recession. Many of their lies are simply to exercise control such as the rediculous EU directives. Showing us who is boss.
However, the only way to fight them is on all fronts, by exposing all their lies 911 and 7/7 are very easy to expose people in America are waking up in the millions. The moon landings need only for people to really put 2 + 2 together. The holocaust story is also a simple adding up exercise of various census figures and survivor/refugee statistics.
Problem is this:
the more lies they are able to tell and get away with and profit from the more daring and greedy and confident they become. They can stage hostile takeovers of whole countries. Forget Iraq and Afghanistan which are only the latest, they have been taking over countries for years.
Has anyone reading this heard a word of dissent about the military coup in Thailand? A democratic government overthrown and yet not one journo or one mp has a word to say about it?
where does zionism fit into this?
well zionism is what kick started all of this. If you read the protocols of the elders of zion which zionism is based upon.
Zionism is NOT a jewish thing, it is an athiestic system which has highjacked a number of jews to believe in it in the same way al-quada hoodwinks some muslims into following it.
Jewish religious leaders and scolars have repeatedly condemmed zionism as anti-judaism. But the same lies that are sold to the general public are also sold to the jewish public and the same brainwashing occurs.
Educated jews understand this. The jewish religion does not state that thejewish people should have a country solely for jews. In fact it expressly forbids this. There are black jews living in places like ethiopia and ghana, there are asian jews living in places like bombay. there are jews in every country in the world including every arab country. the talmud forbids jews from having a nation so zionism is an anti jewish movement. Sounds strange but 100% true. In the same way that a muslim suicide bomber murderer is 100% anti koranic teachings and 100% cerain to go to hell.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1 323449152
You are right that fascism is the name of the problem. But zionism and communism are its brother and sister.
We are living in a world where most things are lies, most of us are half asleep, but when we wake up we can prevail.
Exposing 911 as what it is a massive insurance fraud, a bullion robberry, and a huge false flag oporation will bring these guys down. Because of the power of the internet more and more people are waking up. But 90% of the public is still asleep and we need to shout loudly.
In many countries the internet is censored, it may happen here too so time is running out.
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TheTruth
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| rodin wrote: | You see, a system capable of pulling global hoaxes like
Holocaust
Moon Landings
911, etc
Has to be extremely well run, and involve a large and self-loyal group of people. If we cannot identify these people how can we fight back? |
Well we know the HolyCo$t is a Jew run hoax,...
So probably the other two are as well.
The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic.
First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid.
If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about.
Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again.
But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.
I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.
From time immemorial, however, the Jews have known better than any others how falsehood and calumny can be exploited.
Is not their very existence founded on one great lie, namely, that they are a religious community, whereas in reality they are a race? And what a race!
One of the greatest thinkers that mankind has produced has branded the Jews for all time with a statement which is profoundly and exactly true.
He (Schopenhauer) called the Jew "The Great Master of Lies."
A interesting quote from Mein Kampf by A Hitler.
Sounds like many of the people arguing on bulletin boards.
Last edited by TheTruth on Wed May 30, 2007 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anthony Lawson
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: Let's Stop Pussyfooting Around |
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Let’s Stop Tip-Toeing Around
kbo234 has hit the nail on the head. Well said!
| Quote: | | What is 'tedious' about this? Few revelations could be more significant. Much of our current political reality has been built on the foundation of the holocaust story. The USA, and its people, has supported Israel against Palestine and the arab world in a one-sided way that surely would never have been possible (given the murderous facts of life on the ground) without a population brainwashed by the holocaust story. |
Now, it is Britain’s turn, with a budget being provided, specifically, for Holocaust indoctrination, perhaps this kind of concern would have been voiced earlier, if the following kind of stuff hadn’t kept getting in the way:
| Quote: | | You declare it's 'propaganda' but make no effort to explain how Zionists are controlling the national curriculum - basically you posted some mundane article, made grandiose proclamations about its enormous significance ('indoctrination'?) and have subsequently made zero effort to evidence them. Dogsmilk |
…and, recently…
| Quote: | | The PTB are trying desparately to promote a rise in bigotry, race hate and fascism/neo-nazism and a strategy of tension between the faiths. Take great care not to be helping them in this wicked agenda. Ian Neal |
The first instance demonstrates a total lack of understanding of how powerful political agendas can begin: in a small, almost unnoticeable way.
The second instance demonstrates that the fear of being used by others can often help them to pursue their evil agendas, because of the constraints you place upon yourself, thus allowing the evil to develop, thrive and flourish, virtually unhindered. It can be described as the decent-people-doing-nothing syndrome.
Mistakes will be made, debating points lost and won, but the bottom line is: You have to deal with the issues as you see them, and not try to outguess your opponents, who will, inevitably, attempt to distort what you write and say. Therefore great care is needed to make sure that your arguments are truthful and carefully presented, and that you are able to back them up with facts. Then people will listen.
Respect the victims. Avoid using words like ‘holohoax’, 'HolyCo$t' or any other distortion of the word. Doing so will demean you and your arguments in the eyes of those who still believe the ‘official’ version.
There can be no doubt that a huge number of people were deported to slave-labour camps and suffered and died horrible deaths, in and around Nazi Germany, before and during WWII. The victims of all wars, and the victims of all of the deceits which led to them deserve respect.
Those who use the victims’ suffering to promote their own evil agendas, do not.
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After word: You should have checked out the title of Hitler’s book, ‘The Truth’; it is Mein Kampf (not kempe). Kampf means: combat, fight, contest, engagement, battle, conflict, action, struggle. A pretty wide choice, in English, and most seem to fit, though My Struggle is usually thought to be the correct one. Getting factual stuff like this wrong, leaves you wide open to criticism of your opinions; useful ammunition for those who oppose you.
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ian neal
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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No problem with what you say here Antony
Especially
| Quote: | | Therefore great care is needed to make sure that your arguments are truthful and carefully presented, and that you are able to back them up with facts. |
But there in lies the problem.
All users here are aware what a sensitive issue this is and most avoid the subject or do take great care. But you need only look back at previous threads where this has been discussed to see that this is not always the case. Statements have not been carefully presented or factually supported and language often found on far right/fascist sites has been used (eg holohoax).
My advice is when introducing discussion of this subject then start on the evidence of jewsagainstzionism and put zionism and the role of key influential zionists in the wider context. Show (just as today with Al Qaeda and CIA) how the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' all join up round the back. |
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ian neal
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Zionism’s Greatest Weapon: The Holocaust Story |
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| stelios wrote: | | Sounds exactly like Tony Blair's Britain |
True enough. Fascism with a smile and a suit instead of goose-stepping around.
| stelios wrote: | | However, the only way to fight them is on all fronts, by exposing all their lies 911 and 7/7 are very easy to expose people in America are waking up in the millions. |
IMO wrong. I and I believe the vast majority of us here are all to aware that 9/11 is not an isolated decpetion. It is symptomatic of a system that is rotten and corrupt to the core and which is based on lie after lie. However it is my opinion that there is logical sequence to the issues/lies and when to introduce them.
| stelios wrote: | | where does zionism fit into this? well zionism is what kick started all of this. |
Again IMO wrong. Zionism is a recent example of a repeating meme used by the elite. But the PTB have been playing this game a lot longer than 150 years and this is one of the reasons I have a problem when I hear zionism is the be all and end all of the conspiracy. It is just one layer of the onion. The second thing to realise is that the elite's modus operandi is to divide and rule by creating opposames that polarise opinion. So it is to be expected that the PTB will not only be highly influential within zionism but also within groups (especially on the far-right) opposed to zionism. By singling out one ism (in this case zionism) for special attention we are playing their game.
We can already see the conserted efforts of the ADL (and others) to associate 9/11 truth with anti-semiticism. |
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rodin
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Zionism’s Greatest Weapon: The Holocaust Story |
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| stelios wrote: |
The media is simply a propaganda machine for New Labour policies. |
All parties follow the agenda. Grammar schools attacked by Ca-moron - why? So the elite keep ahead by dint of denial of service...
New prez of World Bank announced. Another tribe member...
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rodin
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Zionism is a recent example of a repeating meme used by the elite. But the PTB have been playing this game a lot longer than 150 years and this is one of the reasons I have a problem when I hear zionism is the be all and end all of the conspiracy. It is just one layer of the onion. The second thing to realise is that the elite's modus operandi is to divide and rule by creating opposames that polarise opinion. So it is to be expected that the PTB will not only be highly influential within zionism but also within groups (especially on the far-right) opposed to zionism. By singling out one ism (in this case zionism) for special attention we are playing their game.
We can already see the conserted efforts of the ADL (and others) to associate 9/11 truth with anti-semiticism. |
True - cooked up by Herzl and Rothschild to co-incide with ME oil awareness around 1890. The family are much older than Zionism, and an order of magnitude older than Rothschild, though he may have muscled his way to the top around 1800.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm
When he left the London Gold Fix did he jump or was he pushed? Since his baby the Soviet Union fell apart Oligarchs appear to be serious contenders... then again Khodorkovsky sent his Yukos loot to Rothschild in Israel when Putin fingered him...
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20031102-111400-3720r.htm
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies to Anthony -
During our previous exchange, I somehow managed to avoid finding this and this which would have saved a lot of verbal fannying about and which I've now just come across looking for something else - sorry about that.
While I'm on the subject, this
might be of interest to you - there was a cheap copy going, but I've selfishly bagged it for myself.
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Dogsmilk
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Anthony Lawson
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: There Are Many Paths |
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There Are Many Paths
| Quote: | | My advice is when introducing discussion of this subject then start on the evidence of jewsagainstzionism and put zionism and the role of key influential zionists in the wider context. |
Ian, I am sure that the best interests for the reputation of the 9/11 Truth Movement are high on your agenda, but I don’t think that should stretch to telling others how to introduce subjects. The video of the orthodox rabbi is interesting, and there is no shortage of items and articles by and about Jews who abhor what is going on in Israel. But the thrust of the rabbi’s argument, in the video, was that ‘God’ didn’t want the Jews to have their own nation. Being a card-carrying atheist, how could I possibly take that anywhere? In any event, in matters of what is fundamentally right and fundamentally wrong, I don’t need a rabbi, a priest or a monk to instruct me, because my mother did that, a long time ago.
It seems that your idea is to show that there are many Jews who detest the way that Zionist Israel is behaving, which kind of legitimizes the protests of non-Jews. This sounds like fear-of-being-branded-an-anti-Semite talking. Like, Jews can tell jokes about Jews, but if a ‘goy’ told exactly the same jokes, that would be edging towards being anti-Semitic.
Don’t you think that the anti-Semitic card is a bit worn out, these days? Intelligent people are able to distinguish between a rabble-rouser standing on a street corner and shouting racial obscenities and someone voicing an opinion on how Israel, a Jewish nation, is behaving towards the Palestinian people. Of course it is a good thing that concerned Jews are joining in with their condemnations, but if they are given an exclusive on it, then nothing will get done. The protest needs volume, not an apologetic whisper.
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I think the debate did go off the rails a little.
I think that in school they should only be taught the whole history of the first and second world war.
I was never taught this.
I only recently learned that the first world war was over an assaination of one guy an austrian aparantly in Bosnia by serbians.
What the hell did that have to do with Great Britain and why did we sacrifice millions of lives for that?
Once history is taught correctly people realise they have been lied to.
Second world war is the same. The US helped and financed Hitler. The help included many zionist financiers. without this the war machine could not have started. IBM developed the machines for the final solution. The USA far from being the saviours actually blackmailed Britain before they joined the war, and made us pay them a total of £255 billion to repay a $3.7billion loan.
The USA also refused visas to jewish refugees and actually negotiated with Stalin as to what to do with the jews in Russia and America.
This kind of history is not going to be on the nation curriculem i bet.
So i do not think our children should be indoctrinated with falsehoods.
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blackcat
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: |
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wow
thanks 4 that
i didnt know anything about the berlin to baghdad oil pipeline
basra 1914
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Zionism’s Greatest Weapon: The Holocaust Story |
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| ian neal wrote: |
IMO wrong. I and I believe the vast majority of us here are all to aware that 9/11 is not an isolated decpetion. It is symptomatic of a system that is rotten and corrupt to the core and which is based on lie after lie. However it is my opinion that there is logical sequence to the issues/lies and when to introduce them.
| stelios wrote: | | where does zionism fit into this? well zionism is what kick started all of this. |
Again IMO wrong. Zionism is a recent example of a repeating meme used by the elite. But the PTB have been playing this game a lot longer than 150 years and this is one of the reasons I have a problem when I hear zionism is the be all and end all of the conspiracy. It is just one layer of the onion. The second thing to realise is that the elite's modus operandi is to divide and rule by creating opposames that polarise opinion. So it is to be expected that the PTB will not only be highly influential within zionism but also within groups (especially on the far-right) opposed to zionism. By singling out one ism (in this case zionism) for special attention we are playing their game.
We can already see the conserted efforts of the ADL (and others) to associate 9/11 truth with anti-semiticism. |
Yes and if 9/11 truth campaigners single out Zionism as the root of all evil they will invoke the mighty power of the Zionist lobby to attack our campaign. There is so much evidence that the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7 are false that there is no need to damage our campaign by making Zionism the scapegoat. If we do, I predict that within a year we shall have dwindled to an ineffective rump because it will be very widely believed that we are a bunch of anti-semitic racists supported by a few self-hating Jews.
How the PTB must be hoping that we will go for an all-out attack on Zionism, as it will make their task of discrediting us so simple!!! Perhaps they are even encouraging us to take that direction through posts on this thread. Who knows! |
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Long Tooth
Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 306
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Zionism’s Greatest Weapon: The Holocaust Story |
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| xmasdale wrote: | | ian neal wrote: |
IMO wrong. I and I believe the vast majority of us here are all to aware that 9/11 is not an isolated decpetion. It is symptomatic of a system that is rotten and corrupt to the core and which is based on lie after lie. However it is my opinion that there is logical sequence to the issues/lies and when to introduce them.
| stelios wrote: | | where does zionism fit into this? well zionism is what kick started all of this. |
Again IMO wrong. Zionism is a recent example of a repeating meme used by the elite. But the PTB have been playing this game a lot longer than 150 years and this is one of the reasons I have a problem when I hear zionism is the be all and end all of the conspiracy. It is just one layer of the onion. The second thing to realise is that the elite's modus operandi is to divide and rule by creating opposames that polarise opinion. So it is to be expected that the PTB will not only be highly influential within zionism but also within groups (especially on the far-right) opposed to zionism. By singling out one ism (in this case zionism) for special attention we are playing their game.
We can already see the conserted efforts of the ADL (and others) to associate 9/11 truth with anti-semiticism. |
Yes and if 9/11 truth campaigners single out Zionism as the root of all evil they will invoke the mighty power of the Zionist lobby to attack our campaign. There is so much evidence that the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7 are false that there is no need to damage our campaign by making Zionism the scapegoat. If we do, I predict that within a year we shall have dwindled to an ineffective rump because it will be very widely believed that we are a bunch of anti-semitic racists supported by a few self-hating Jews.
How the PTB must be hoping that we will go for an all-out attack on Zionism, as it will make their task of discrediting us so simple!!! Perhaps they are even encouraging us to take that direction through posts on this thread. Who knows! |
Hitting the nail on the head xmasdale again. Zionism, the latest ism that gets the inexperienced fool to step into the giant venuszionism flytrap.
Zionism, the latest ism used in the magicians box of tricks.
Judging by the ignorance on threads here ihave to agree that it does seem people are encouraging threads in a certain direction, and as usual the fish are taking the bait.
Zionism kick started it all!!!! Says stelios!!!! Why does the ADL have to pay shills to muck spread that sort of filth on forums, when you have people doing it for free and are probably posting it in all seriousness?
One layer of the onion is a very good expression, how it makes the eyes weep, layer upon layer of deceptions. one layer zionism the same layer as the next, communism and under that the next ism.
What is so suprising is that people who apparantly spend or have spent thousands of hours reasearching cannot spot the scam.
Simple rule of thumb, when your 'reasearch' tells you a specific race or religion or ism, is responsible for it all, go back to the basics, the worlds religions are in bed together in an orgy of lies, and pulling the strings are the puppetmasters. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: Re: There Are Many Paths |
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| Anthony Lawson wrote: | .......... but I don’t think that should stretch to telling others how to introduce subjects.
This sounds like fear-of-being-branded-an-anti-Semite talking. Don’t you think that the anti-Semitic card is a bit worn out, these days? Intelligent people are able to distinguish. |
Hi A
1) I'm merely offering my advice and opinion which everyone is free to take or leave
2) I do fear the PTB will try to brand the 9/11 truth movement as anti-semitic, but then that is for a very good reason. This is the ploy they are already trying. Just witness the BBC conspiracy files documentary and Jon Ronson's article. In Jon's case he had reason to react, although he totally misrepresented his exchange on this forum.
I think you under estimate the ability of the MSM to shape public opinion or the public debate. If we are all so bleeding smart and able to see through the brianwashing and propaganda, then how come we are where we are both in regards to 9/11 and our understanding of zionism. |
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Anthony Lawson
Validated Poster
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 370
Location: Phuket, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: Backstep to May 20, 2007 |
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Backstep to May 20, 2007
| Quote: | British Taxpayers to Fund Holocaust Indoctrination
Gordon Brown this week announced a new government cash injection to help ensure British educators are prepared for teaching about the Shoah.
The announcement, which came towards the end of a wide-ranging address to Labour friends of Israel’s annual lunch, follows his £1.5m windfall in 2005 to help fund the Holocaust Educational Trust’s plan to send children and teachers from every school on visits to Auschwitz.[/b] |
Hey, what an idiot I am. What I really meant to write, after this was:
Oh! Thank you Chanc… Sorry, Prime Minister Brown. What a simply spiffing idea; getting those young, innocent minds to hear all about the Holocaust and to have the opportunity to visit Auschwitz.
And don’t worry one bit about those anti-Semites who think that maybe what’s been happening to the Palestinians should come in for a mention. What do they know? Just a tiny part of the big picture, that’s what. They should listen to their betters and check out the rest of the canvas, not just mess around and concentrate on getting to know more of the details hidden away in the grey areas. After all, that’s all in the past, isn’t it?
Oh! By the way, if we all promise to make a special donation, for this wonderful project—and vote for you and New Labour at the next election—and if we all roll over on our backs, will you promise to tickle our tummies? Pleeeaaase!!!!!
(There, that should keep me out of the Gulag.)
_________________
The truth won't set you free, but identifying the liars could help make the world a better place. |
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Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6342
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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and new laws in France?
| Quote: | Turkey suspends military ties with France over 'genocide row'
https://rt.com/news/turkey-genocide-france-conflict-463/
Published: 22 December, 2011, 20:26
French navy soldiers stand guards on the upper deck of the "GUEPRATTE" frigate (AFP Photo / Fayez Nureldine)
TAGS: Conflict, EU, Politics, Law, History
The Turkish Prime Minister, Tayyip Erdogan, says Ankara has rescinded an agreement allowing French military planes to land, and warships to dock, in the country. This brings the conflict over a "genocide bill" proposed in France to the NATO level.
"We are re-evaluating our relations with France. We will take step-by-step measures, depending on how the situation unfolds", said PM Erdogan, accusing French President Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling party of "politics based on racism, discrimination, xenophobia."
Turkey has frozen all contacts with France, and canceled any joint political, economic and military projects with the EU country. This includes joint maneuvers and an economic committee meeting in Paris in January.
Access to Turkish airspace and military bases has been reduced to case-by-case scheme.
Erdogan has confirmed Ankara is withdrawing the country's Ambassador to France. The ambassador, Tahsin Burcuoglu, is to leave on Friday.
French Foreign Affairs Minister Alain Juppe has called Turkey not to "overreact" to the outcome of the vote, urging for "good sense and moderation," reports Reuters.
The sanctions follow a vote in France's lower house of Parliament in favor of a law that would deem denial of genocide a crime.
Though the proposed bill cites genocides in general, Ankara believes the law targets the 1915 ethnic cleansing of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire – which Ankara denies to qualify as genocide.
The bill, proposing a penalty of up to one year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euro ($58,870) to those who deny or "outrageously minimize" sufferings due to genocide, now awaits ratification in the French Senate. The law may just as well die there, as was the fate of an earlier draft this year.
Before the vote in the French Parliament, Turkey warned of “grave consequences” for France if the law is adopted. As both countries are members of NATO, the row could complicate relations within the bloc.
France and Turkey have been cooperating on dealing with the Iranian nuclear stand-off, and crises in Syria and Afghanistan. Paris still considers Ankara a key partner in the NATO bloc, despite frictions between the two during the Libyan campaign, when Turkey contested France’s leadership over the operation.
France is Turkey's fifth biggest export market and the sixth biggest source of its imports, so the effects of a breakdown in relations could be major both for politicians and businessmen. |
| Quote: | Azerbaijan Criticizes French Parliament's 'Armenian Genocide' Bill
http://www.rferl.org/content/azerbaijan_criticizes_french_decision_on_ armenian_genocide/24431659.html
December 23, 2011
BAKU -- Azerbaijani officials have expressed their disapproval of French legislation that makes it illegal to deny that the mass killing of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey nearly a century ago was genocide, RFE/RL's Azerbaijani Service reports.
Novruz Mammadov, head of the Foreign Relations Department in Azerbaijan's presidential adminstration, said the bill -- which was passed by the lower house of parliament on December 22 -- is unfair and affects France's image as a democratic country.
Mammadov said the bill "restricts freedom of expression and opinions. This step by parliament can affect Azerbaijani-French ties. It's necessary to wait a while [after the vote] and then we'll take the necessary steps."
The bill -- which would penalize someone denying "the Armenian genocide" with one year in jail and a fine of some 45,000 euros ($58,000) will next be voted on by the French Senate.
At least 1 million Armenians were killed in World War I-era Ottoman Turkey. Ankara denies it was genocide. Instead, it maintains that most of those deaths -- the numbers of which it says were much lower -- were the result of fighting between Armenians and Turks.
Turkey reacted swiftly to the vote in the National Assembly, or lower house of parliament, recalling its ambassador from Paris and suspending all political, economic, and military activities with France.
Azerbaijan is an longstanding ally of Turkey and hostile to Armenia, with whom it has a territorial conflict over the Nagorno-Karabakh region, internationally recognized as Azerbaijani territory but controlled by Armenians.
Azerbaijani NGOs such as the International Diaspora Center and the Union of Azerbaijan Patriotic War Veterans staged a protest on December 22 in front of the French Embassy in Baku.
Demonstrators shouted "French parliament, be fair!" "Shame on Sarkozy!" "French people, stop Sarkozy!" and "Stop assistance to Armenia, which has occupied Karabakh!" The protesters handed a statement to the embassy.
Trade Ties
During French President Nicolas Sarkozy's visit to Azerbaijan in October, President Ilham Aliyev said he hoped that trade turnover between the two countries would reach $4 billion. Aliyev said some 40 French companies are working successfully in Azerbaijan on a wide range of projects, including environmental protection.
"A French company will send our first telecommunications satellite into orbit," Aliyev said in October. "We have good opportunities to cooperate in this sphere."
French oil companies Total and Gaz de France also recently discovered a new gas field in Azerbaijan which is expected to strengthen the country's energy potential.
Newly-opened gas fields hold some 350 billion cubic meters of gas which increases Azerbaijan's gas reserves to 2.6 trillion cubic meters.
Independent legal analyst Erkin Qadirli told RFE/RL on December 22 that Azerbaijan has certain levers it can use to exert pressure on France.
"The Total company could lose its share in the gas field," he said. "France has also awarded Azerbaijani first lady [Mehriban Aliyeva] with an Order of Legion, which she could reject and give back [in order to cause negative publicity for Paris].
Azerbaijan is also a partner to the European Human Rights Convention and could use it as a tool to submit an appeal to a European Court if the [French bill on genocide denial] is enforced."
Qadirli says Azerbaijan could raise the issue of France's co-chairmanship in the OSCE Minsk Group, which is working to resolve the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, by claiming that France is showing support only to the Armenian side. |
_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
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