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scubadiver
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: 60% of UK Muslims believe government lied about 7/7 |
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http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/religion/survey+governme nt+hasnt+told+truth+about+77/545847
59% of the 500 people polled believe that the government has not told the public the whole truth about the 7th July bombings.
52% believe that the British security services have "made up" evidence to convict terrorist suspects.
24% believe the four men identified as the July 7th bombers were not actually responsible for the attacks.
Being discussed on Channel 4 now.
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Craig W
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks scuba. There is also a small thread on this in "7/7/05".
It would be interesting to see the results of a similar survey of the general population, to compare with this survey of Muslims.
That this survey is solely of Muslims allows the MSM and authorities to spin it as troubling evidence of Muslim disaffection and alienation (which no doubt will be used to help explain any future incidence of alleged "home-grown Muslim terror").
Here is the text of the article linked above:
| Quote: |
Survey: 'government hasn't told truth about 7/7'
Last Modified: 04 Jun 2007
By: Darshna Soni
A quarter of Muslims polled think the authorities involved with staging the 7/7 London bombings. (Three quarters are either too brainwashed or too scared to consider the truth - CW)
It's a worrying picture that suggests a significant minority of British Muslims are alienated from the government and the security services. (Worrying only if you assume the official conspiracy theory is true - CW)
A Channel 4 News survey of 500 British Muslims, carried out by GFK NOP, has found that nearly a quarter don't believe the four men identified as the London bombers were responsible for the attacks. (Over three quarters think they did it, despite the amost total lack of evidence - again, testament to the power of MSM spin and lies - CW)
And a similar number say the government or the security services were involved. Nearly six in ten of those polled believe the government hasn't told the whole truth about the July the 7th bombings - and more than half say the intelligence services have made up evidence to convict terrorist suspects. (Over 40% of Muslims are deluded enought to think the authorities have played with a straight bat - CW)
The findings come as Tony Blair told a London conference that the "true voice of Islam" needed to be heard - to isolate the extremists.
The Prime Minister went on to say that that most Muslims wanted to be "loyal citizens", despite the "disproportionate" public attention given to what he called "small, unrepresentative groups" of radicals. In this exclusive report, Darshna Soni reveals the full findings of our survey - and talks to Muslims throughout England.
The Survey
Channel 4 News, with GFK NOP, has commissioned a survey to reveal the Muslim community's attitudes towards the 'official narrative' surrounding the 7/7 bombings revealing that: 59% of the 500 people polled believe that the government has not told the public the whole truth about the 7th July bombings.
52% believe that the British security services have "made up" evidence to convict terrorist suspects.
24% believe the four men identified as the July 7th bombers were not actually responsible for the attacks.
68% believe that the Muslim community does not bear any responsibility for the emergence of extremists willing to attack UK targets. Although 58% felt that the community should be doing more.
Download the full survey here: Channel 4 News / GFK NOP Survey (Word doc)
Your views
If you'd like to comment on our survey findings, you can get in touch at the news@channel4.com |
Here are the full poll results from that last link:
| Quote: | Inquest poll - Toplines
Question A1 (1) Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1. The British government has told the public the WHOLE truth about the July 7th bombings
[PROBE: STRONGLY/TEND TO]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 44 8.8 8.8
2. Tend to agree 68 13.6 13.6
3. Neither agree nor disagree 42 8.4 8.4
4. Tend to disagree 147 29.4 29.4
5. Strongly disagree 148 29.6 29.6
Don't Know 51 10.2 10.2
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A1 (2) Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1. The British government was involved in some way in the July 7th bombings
[PROBE: STRONGLY/TEND TO]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 57 11.4 11.4
2. Tend to agree 63 12.6 12.6
3. Neither agree nor disagree 71 14.2 14.2
4. Tend to disagree 109 21.8 21.8
5. Strongly disagree 128 25.6 25.6
Don't Know 72 14.4 14.4
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A1 (3) Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1. The British security services were involved in some way in the July 7th
bombings
[PROBE: STRONGLY/TEND TO]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 47 9.4 9.4
2. Tend to agree 75 15.0 15.0
3. Neither agree nor disagree 75 15.0 15.0
4. Tend to disagree 104 20.8 20.8
5. Strongly disagree 113 22.6 22.6
Don't Know 86 17.2 17.2
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A1 (4) Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1. The 4 men identified as the July 7th bombers were the ones actually
responsible for the attacks
[PROBE: STRONGLY/TEND TO]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 99 19.8 19.8
2. Tend to agree 99 19.8 19.8
3. Neither agree nor disagree 91 18.2 18.2
4. Tend to disagree 63 12.6 12.6
5. Strongly disagree 57 11.4 11.4
Don't Know 91 18.2 18.2
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A1A Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1a. Do you think that the Muslim community in Britain bears any
responsibility for the emergence of extremists willing to attack UK targets?
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Yes 108 21.6 21.6
2. No 343 68.6 68.6
Don't Know 49 9.8 9.8
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A1B Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A1b. Are you satisfied that the Muslim community is taking sufficient steps
to address the issue of extremism, or should it do more?
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Yes - I am satisfied 161 32.2 32.2
2. No - The Muslim community should be doing more 292 58.4 58.4
Don't Know 47 9.4 9.4
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A2 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A2. And now thinking more generally, some people believe that the British
security services have made up evidence to make it easier to get terrorist
suspects convicted in court.
To what extent do you either agree or disagree with this statement?
[PROBE: STRONGLY/TEND TO]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 132 26.4 26.4
2. Tend to agree 129 25.8 25.8
3. Neither agree nor disagree 64 12.8 12.8
4. Tend to disagree 64 12.8 12.8
5. Strongly disagree 58 11.6 11.6
Don't Know 53 10.6 10.6
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A3 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A3. If you were arrested in Britain, how confident are you, if at all, that
as a Muslim, you will be treated fairly?
[READ OUT]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Very confident 63 12.6 12.6
2. Quite confident 122 24.4 24.4
3. Not very confident 179 35.8 35.8
4. Not at all confident 105 21.0 21.0
Don't Know 31 6.2 6.2
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A4 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A4. To what extent do you think the policing tactics used when arresting
Muslim suspects under the Terrorism Act can be justified?
[READ OUT]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Usually 95 19.0 19.0
2. Sometimes 179 35.8 35.8
3. Rarely 97 19.4 19.4
4. Never 53 10.6 10.6
Don't Know 76 15.2 15.2
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A5 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A5. Do you agree or disagree that the tactics used by the police when
arresting Muslims terror suspects are racist?
[READ OUT]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Strongly agree 77 15.4 15.4
2. Tend to agree 155 31.0 31.0
3. Neither agree nor disagree 59 11.8 11.8
4. Tend to disagree 96 19.2 19.2
5. Strongly disagree 63 12.6 12.6
Don't Know 50 10.0 10.0
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A6 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A6. Since the events of 7th July how worried are you, if at all, that Police
may shoot to kill people who they suspect of being Muslim terrorists?
[READ OUT]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Extremely worried 119 23.8 23.8
2. Very worried 191 38.2 38.2
3. Not very worried 110 22.0 22.0
4. Not at all worried 58 11.6 11.6
Don't Know 22 4.4 4.4
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Question A7 Single-Coded. Answered by 500 out of 500
A7. Some Muslims are considering leaving the UK because they believe there is
no future in Britain for Muslims.
Have you yourself considered leaving Britain for this reason?
[PROBE TO PRECODES]
500 500
Tot/Ans %/Ans %/Resp
1. Yes - have considered seriously 26 5.2 5.2
2. Yes - considered but not seriously 64 12.8 12.8
3. No - not considered this at all 401 80.2 80.2
Don't Know 9 1.8 1.8 |
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John White
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Actually, this is encouraging. Firstly, lets make sure we are clear on the purpose of opinion polls, and its NOT to find out what people think: its to find out if people think as they "should". The spread of "official doubt" in the UK indicates that 7/7 truth is breaking through, and can't be making "them" feel too happy. And scope out the comments:
| Quote: | Your views
We asked you to email in your thoughts on the matter, and your emails have been flooding in. Here are some of them:
"Well done Ch4 and thanks for bringing the survey and a number of important issues to the attention of the British public.
Do bear in mind many British non-Muslims also question the official version of 7/7."
- Paul
"Why don't you ask the same question of non-Muslims? i.e. 'do you trust the authorities and the government?' - you might be surprised by the result, as its not only Muslims who no longer believe the Bliar government."
- Ted Newcomen
"I am a white female atheist and I don't believe the government has told us the whole truth about the 7/7 bombings. I don't believe the conspiracy theories either.
So, for this survey you could also have asked Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and atheists what they thought. I'd be prepared to bet that the answer to the question 'has the government told the truth about 7/7' would be broadly similar in all of those."
- Alice Porter, Hertfordshire
"I just wanted to say how gobsmacked I was with your 'piece'.
At least your website gives some links where people can go and research for themselves so I suppose I should congratulate you on that.
And I suppose I should thank you for reminding me to not even contemplate wasting a second of my time on the mainstream media. What must you tell yourselves?
Oh, Channel 4, where did it all go wrong?" - Nick
"Dear Sirs,
Obviously we have a situation where many Muslims are in denial and genuinely worried about the deteriorating climate of opinion amongst non-Muslims. Our courts have a number of Muslim barristers and lawyers and maybe even a Muslim judge or two?
These learned legal officials from the Muslim community MUST speak out without fear or favour and try to "scotch" the rumour mongers and conspiracy theorists. Who else will the doubting Muslims believe?"
- Alfred P. Bright.
"We think that it is highly reprehensible that Channel 4 News should give prime airtime, and thus credence and encouragement, to such a completely ludicrous theory that the British Govt and/or security services were somehow involved in planning the 7/7 London Tube bombings.
You might just as well say that the American Govt. planned to crash the planes into the Twin Towers in New York on 9/11."
- Peter Bell.
"I am growing heartily sick at the continuing denial of the muslim community to accept that there is an extremist element which has hijacked their community.
- Chris Davis
"Being a Muslim in the UK, I definitely see growing alienation, distrust and fear between Britain's Muslims and other people in the UK including the government. I think this applies both ways, and I also think this is one of the biggest root problems facing us and the rest of the world today.
I and many others don't believe in the conspiracy theories brought up in the programme, and I feel a bigger poll may be more representative. However, I fear that most people are tempted to use anything to cause separation these days.
The only way to combat this is, ironically, to build trust through the media. I appreciate the positive spin put on the poll results later in the programme, talking about the 75% who are like me. It's a shame, several people will have already taken on board the initial message given, intentionally or not, that many Muslims are paranoid, and therefore can't be trusted."
- Dr Munir Choudhury, Leeds
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Here's my e-mail to them:
Whatever version of the story you believe about 7/7/05, it is a theory, and when four lads plan together to commit a crime, that is by definition a "conspiracy" . So the question is not whether or not people believe in "conspiracy theories" so much as for which conspiracy theory do they find the evidence most compelling.
In the government's conspiracy theory they first had the lads travelling to Kings Cross on a train which the rail authorities claim was cancelled that morning. A year later they admitted their error and changed the theory to the lads travelling on a later train which did not arrive at Kings Cross until after the trains that were blown up had left that station. These statements by the government do not inspire confidence in their conspiracy theories.
The government has also committed a gross injustice by presuming the four lads guilty, though they never had a chance to defend themselves in court. There could have been a public inquiry in which their families and friends would have had a chance to clear their names, but Tony Blair ruled that out as a "ludicrous diversion" claiming he knows who did it.
Since when in British justice has word of Prime Minister overridden the principle of innocent until proven guilty?
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| xmasdale wrote: | Here's my e-mail to them:
Whatever version of the story you believe about 7/7/05, it is a theory, and when four lads plan together to commit a crime, that is by definition a "conspiracy" . So the question is not whether or not people believe in "conspiracy theories" so much as for which conspiracy theory do they find the evidence most compelling.
In the government's conspiracy theory they first had the lads travelling to Kings Cross on a train which the rail authorities claim was cancelled that morning. A year later they admitted their error and changed the theory to the lads travelling on a later train which did not arrive at Kings Cross until after the trains that were blown up had left that station. These statements by the government do not inspire confidence in their conspiracy theories.
The government has also committed a gross injustice by presuming the four lads guilty, though they never had a chance to defend themselves in court. There could have been a public inquiry in which their families and friends would have had a chance to clear their names, but Tony Blair ruled that out as a "ludicrous diversion" claiming he knows who did it.
Since when in British justice has word of Prime Minister overridden the principle of innocent until proven guilty?
Noel Glynn |
Very good Noel - except the authorities changed the Luton time to an earlier train - the 7.25 which was timetabled to leave at 7.24 but was running a minute late.
A selection of emails received by Channel 4 under the heading:
A large number of your emails drew attention to the fact that it was not just Muslims who did not believe the official version of what happened on 7 July 2005.
Channel 4
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TonyGosling
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Channel 4 news' website appears to have made additions since the story was posted last night
| Quote: |
Conspiracies and cover-ups?
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/religion/conspiracies+an d+coverups/546582
Last Modified: 05 Jun 2007
By: Darshna Soni
We got a huge response from viewers after our report on 7/7 conspiracies.
I tried to reply to some of your emails on the train home, but my internet connection kept cutting out. This wasn't part of the conspiracy. At least, I don't think it was...
Many of you saw our research as extremely worrying. We found that nearly 60 per cent of British Muslims don't think we've been told the truth about the bombings.
A quarter think the government may have had a hand in the attacks. Another 25 per cent believe that the four men identified as the bombers weren't actually responsible.
What do the results mean? For some, they are evidence that many British Muslims have lost trust in the government and the security services.
Rom Stanko asked: "What kind of society are we building where this level of distrust can exist and where the disparate sections of our community becoming increasingly alienated from the mainstream view?"
'I definitely see growing alienation, distrust and fear between Britain's Muslims and other people in the UK.'
Dr Munir Chourhury
Dr Munir Chourhury wrote: "Being a Muslim in the UK, I definitely see growing alienation, distrust and fear between Britain's Muslims and other people in the UK including the government... The only way to combat this is, ironically, to build trust through the media."
We interviewed two academics who believed there are historical reasons for the lack of trust. Many of you agreed, including Jay Horbsy: "Why are we surprised given the "dodgy dossier?"
But its one thing to think the government lied over the Iraq War and quite another to think it would conspire to kill its own citizens.
"I am left with a sense of outrage towards those who feel some conspiracy by the government allowed the 7/7 bombings," wrote Mike Ward. These views were simply "astonishing," according to Rod Page.
How much airtime should we have given to those who believe that the bombings were an inside job? Peter Bell argued: "... It is highly reprehensible that Channel 4 News should give prime airtime, and thus credence and encouragement, to such a completely ludicrous theory..."
Do our findings suggest that some British Muslims are in denial? Chris Davis wrote: "I am growing heartily sick at the continuing denial of the Muslim community to accept that there is an extremist element which has hijacked their community."
But dozens of you pointed out that it isn't just British Muslims who question the official narrative. Paul describes himself as "an educated white middle-class fella, from Bradford," who along with his friends does not trust the government.
"I am a white female atheist and I don't believe the government has told us the whole truth about the 7/7 bombings," wrote Alice Porter.
"The alienation of Muslims is a matter of grave concern, but Muslims are by no means the only ones who question the official story of the events of July 7th," wrote Beverley Martin.
This is of course true and I should have reflected the fact, although it was stated by Shahid Malik MP in our studio debate afterwards.
According to Dan, these opinions don't just belong to the "tinfoil hat brigade!"
As for the conspiracy theories themselves, Ian said he asked his wife, who was out gardening, "if she thought that Channel 4 told the whole truth. She thought not and that there was clearly a conspiracy."
So there you have it!
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John White
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But its one thing to think the government lied over the Iraq War and quite another to think it would conspire to kill its own citizens |
LOL! What does sending soldiers to die in an illegal war count as then?
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marky 54
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: |
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there was a mention of this in the sun newspaper to dated 5 june 2007 on page 2, stategically placed  , at least half the populations eyes will wonder over a page thus ignoring page 2  or embarrasingly flick over and avoid that page altogether through fear of people thinking they are looking at something they aint 
anyway it mentions that 25% of muslims think evidence was made up to convict people. there is no mention of the other fingures regarding what others think, so if what has already been posted in here is true then it seems the sun have tried to play it down and claim its only muslims who think it. |
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: |
Very good Noel - except the authorities changed the Luton time to an earlier train - the 7.25 which was timetabled to leave at 7.24 but was running a minute late.
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I bow to your superior knowledge, Bridget, and wish I had checked more thoroughly before posting it.
Noel |
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