It also looks like a helicopter flying from right to left in Rick's shot was partially obscured in '911 Mysteries'.
Why did Sofia do this?
i agree about the sound.
i don't have a clue what you talking about with the helicopter.
all it proves is the maker of the film misused the footage. it dos'nt reflect the 9/11 truth movement or prove wrong any of the evidence for any of the theorys(for example there are plenty of witnesses and videos where explosives were heard) therefore the end sequance was the usual speculative rubbish.
it proves misuse of the footage and thats it. ALL the theorys still stand with out that clip therefore who wrote the utter ****** about if lies is all you've got best give up now?
talk about over react over a clip never used to prove a theory by members of 9/11 truth, though i agree the clip in question is misleading.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:45 am Post subject:
We will see. Fetzer appears to be of the opinion that Seigal's footage wasnt used! (re the recent "pull it from google" drama). I'm waiting to see what happens. Its only Seigal's claim that the soundtrack originally didnt include those sounds: maybe he edited them out and is now panicking that the original soundtrack has resurfaced from another source, which would be another pwning for the credibility of NPT... not saying thats the case, just a theory. But I'm darned if I will play "choose a favourite" at this stage _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 438 Location: That Yankee country the U.S.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: '9/11 Mysteries' alters Rick Siegel's original WTC foota
marky 54 wrote:
i agree about the sound.
1) i don't have a clue what you talking about with the helicopter.
all it proves is the maker of the film misused the footage. it dos'nt reflect the 9/11 truth movement or prove wrong any of the evidence for any of the theorys(for example there are plenty of witnesses and videos where explosives were heard) therefore the end sequance was the usual speculative rubbish.
2) it proves misuse of the footage and thats it. ALL the theorys still stand with out that clip therefore who wrote the utter ****** about if lies is all you've got best give up now?
talk about over react over a clip never used to prove a theory by members of 9/11 truth, though i agree the clip in question is misleading.
1) The helicopter is obscured in Sofia's version. It's almost invisible until it comes out of the smoke.
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: SW London
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject:
Quote:
1) The helicopter is obscured in Sofia's version. It's almost invisible until it comes out of the smoke.
I wonder why that was?? Any chance at all it may have been the smoke _________________ "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: '9/11 Mysteries' alters Rick Siegel's original WTC foota
Killtown wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
i agree about the sound.
1) i don't have a clue what you talking about with the helicopter.
all it proves is the maker of the film misused the footage. it dos'nt reflect the 9/11 truth movement or prove wrong any of the evidence for any of the theorys(for example there are plenty of witnesses and videos where explosives were heard) therefore the end sequance was the usual speculative rubbish.
2) it proves misuse of the footage and thats it. ALL the theorys still stand with out that clip therefore who wrote the utter ****** about if lies is all you've got best give up now?
talk about over react over a clip never used to prove a theory by members of 9/11 truth, though i agree the clip in question is misleading.
1) The helicopter is obscured in Sofia's version. It's almost invisible until it comes out of the smoke.
2) You approve of deception?
not at all which is why i pointed out the last few captions are speculating and over reacting.
But in Sofia's version, it's not plain as day. Hmmm.
ok i see what you mean about the helicopter also, i did'nt notice at first.
so killtown do you agree with the video that 9/11 truth have an agenda and that everything 9/11 truth is trying to acheive is lies? this is basically what the video clip is implying. or is the video clip trying to decieve also by using this clip to try and promote something that is'nt true?
i admit it could mean the makers of the film were misusing the clip and misleading, but do you agree with the clip that it is 9/11 truth as a whole doing so?
so killtown do you agree with the video that 9/11 truth have an agenda and that everything 9/11 truth is trying to acheive is lies? this is basically what the video clip is implying. or is the video clip trying to decieve also by using this clip to try and promote something that is'nt true?
i admit it could mean the makers of the film were misusing the clip and misleading, but do you agree with the clip that it is 9/11 truth as a whole doing so?
Actually once again a fertile mind expanding things where nothing exists. That allows you to mis-interpret. However, once knowledge of misinformation is yours the further passing of misinformation with knowledge is the actual definition of disinformation.
Yes, I do claim that Avatar, Sophia, Brad and the rest have purposely fictionalized ripped off files from other DVDs and b****** the sound and video to make horrible distortions of truth. Yes, anyone who after understanding the fabrications, the difficulty to do such edits, can no longer pass this as "911 truth". Even Sophia now claims it was NEVER a 911 truth documentary and always a fictionalized artistic expresion of a story line. Did you know that? Did you promote and buy that beast knowing it was a Hollywood sci-fi fiction distorting reality to promote a story line? If you listen to the Fetzer/Sophia radio interview you should be disgusted with them. You can see them in video clips at Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=911fooledagain
While I see most of the leaders of the organizations in the same light I also know the punters are what they are after. If you think you can gel yourself into an action "committee" without the interest of the local or federal controllers wanting part then you are never going to find truth.
I am saying straight out to you, trust no organization specially those who are leading it. The only reason to organize is to become available for directed action. Change will only come from spontaneous action. Don't be fooled again.
How about I come up and Willie and I take the lie detector test and I will show my new videos?
so killtown do you agree with the video that 9/11 truth have an agenda and that everything 9/11 truth is trying to acheive is lies? this is basically what the video clip is implying. or is the video clip trying to decieve also by using this clip to try and promote something that is'nt true?
i admit it could mean the makers of the film were misusing the clip and misleading, but do you agree with the clip that it is 9/11 truth as a whole doing so?
Actually once again a fertile mind expanding things where nothing exists. That allows you to mis-interpret. However, once knowledge of misinformation is yours the further passing of misinformation with knowledge is the actual definition of disinformation.
Yes, I do claim that Avatar, Sophia, Brad and the rest have purposely fictionalized ripped off files from other DVDs and * the sound and video to make horrible distortions of truth. Yes, anyone who after understanding the fabrications, the difficulty to do such edits, can no longer pass this as "911 truth". Even Sophia now claims it was NEVER a 911 truth documentary and always a fictionalized artistic expresion of a story line. Did you know that? Did you promote and buy that beast knowing it was a Hollywood sci-fi fiction distorting reality to promote a story line? If you listen to the Fetzer/Sophia radio interview you should be disgusted with them. You can see them in video clips at Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=911fooledagain
While I see most of the leaders of the organizations in the same light I also know the punters are what they are after. If you think you can gel yourself into an action "committee" without the interest of the local or federal controllers wanting part then you are never going to find truth.
I am saying straight out to you, trust no organization specially those who are leading it. The only reason to organize is to become available for directed action. Change will only come from spontaneous action. Don't be fooled again.
How about I come up and Willie and I take the lie detector test and I will show my new videos?
i dont quite get what the hell you are going on about.
yes i agree the sound is differant, yes i agree the the helicopter is'nt visible untill near the end of the section, yes i agree the makers of the film mislead or have mis-represented the original content. but are the makers of this films the whole of the 9/11 truth movement?
so why is the clip showing these flaws in the film suggesting the whole 9/11 truth movement are decieving?
the statements in the clip are exagerations or lies, what the clip should be pointing out is the makers of the film were decieving not the whole 9/11 truth campagin.
and for your information no i did not know about these flaws in the film and no i'd never knowingly promoted something that isn't true.
its good that these flaws have been flagged up but why attack the whole 9/11 truth movement as a result, is it my fault this film misused footage?
no it isnt therefore its not the 9/11 truth movement trying to decieve is it? its just the makers of the film. get some prespective in is.
so if a car racing driver cheats in a race there is a forumal 1 agenda?
if a politican lies there is a agenda by the whole party?
the failure to put it in prespective and to imply there are motives by others in the truth campagin and the truth movement as a whole as a result shows this is'nt about just pointing out misleading information in a film, its about discrediting the whole 9/11 truth movement.
like the clips says "wow serious lies supported by david ray griffin, james fetzer, steven jones. even after siegal points it out they all reply "its the best we have got".
there is no evidence to support this claim in the clip.
and i would like to see your proof of this from each person.
or is it just made up? or are you mis representing things they have said?
for example they say it's the best we've got before even knowing themselves there is a misleading clip in the film? which you then take to mean they support lies even though they are unaware of them.
its one thing to point out someone has misused your clip, but to use it to destroy 9/11 truth as a whole shows there are other motives other than the ones you claim. the only people that should of been attacked is the makers of the film. but you are making it into everyone in 9/11 truth.
and just for the record you don't even need any documentary to prove what the documentary is saying. so yes they are misleading but no they are not wrong about the overall message.
so if a car racing driver cheats in a race there is a forumal 1 agenda?
.
Gee, Marky, I just can't seem to follow your "logic". What has this to do with the price of rice in Spain?
Yes, the 911truth agenda. Markey, you have problems with reality? Does facing a pack of liars leading you seem out of place? Have you ever cracked a real history book?
Markey. You are one of them. Aren't you proud? Stand tall, say it loud. You are a racing driver and cheat to win. You are too cool for school.
That was the lesson, you learned it well Marky. But you failed at spelling and you failed to quote without fraud yourself. You qualify to lead the 911truth.
Here is the second of 4 large pieces of mis info. Just so you understand how PURPOSEFUL this has been
so if a car racing driver cheats in a race there is a forumal 1 agenda?
.
Gee, Marky, I just can't seem to follow your "logic". What has this to do with the price of rice in Spain?
Yes, the 911truth agenda. Markey, you have problems with reality? Does facing a pack of liars leading you seem out of place? Have you ever cracked a real history book?
Markey. You are one of them. Aren't you proud? Stand tall, say it loud. You are a racing driver and cheat to win. You are too cool for school.
That was the lesson, you learned it well Marky. But you failed at spelling and you failed to quote without fraud yourself. You qualify to lead the 911truth.
Here is the second of 4 large pieces of mis info. Just so you understand how PURPOSEFUL this has been
ok ill say this again, i understand the documentary is misleading, and agree it is bad and you have a case for concern, BUT only with those who misled knowingly.
im still waiting for proof that david ray griffin,s.jones and fetzer all said that "its all we have got" whilst knowing about the problems you flagged up with the documentary.
your logic is simply this, that if someone makes a film who is totally unrelated to 99% of people in the truth campagin, but mislead with sound then that is some how reflective of the other 99%?
im also sorry to be the one to inform you of this but the documentary in question is not needed to prove facts or raise questions about 9/11 in the first place so all the concerns regarding 9/11 still stand regardless.
just simple science can prove it.
so my point is this, yes get angry at those who delibratly misused your footage, but don't blame the rest who did'nt have a clue or was unaware untill you flagged it up(there may well be lots of people who still don't know).
a racing driver cheating does not mean the forumla 1 community have a agenda does it? it just means the driver had a agenda.
that was the point in that comment. because you seem angry with the whole 9/11 community for someone elses actions.
what makes you think im being led also? i don't follow anyone and just want the truth. and the truth is everything said in the documentary still stands because it was all there before the documentary even came along, and the same questions were being asked, even in your documentary, i remeber the bit on projectiles very well and it was one of things that got me questioning in the begining.
as a man who does not promote lies, i look forward to your evidence about ray griffin,s.jones and fetzer, rather than just say so.
im with you on about 90% of what your saying but i disagree with who you are trying to impliment as a result of someone elses actions.
so if a car racing driver cheats in a race there is a forumal 1 agenda?
.
Gee, Marky, I just can't seem to follow your "logic". What has this to do with the price of rice in Spain?
Yes, the 911truth agenda. Markey, you have problems with reality? Does facing a pack of liars leading you seem out of place? Have you ever cracked a real history book?
Markey. You are one of them. Aren't you proud? Stand tall, say it loud. You are a racing driver and cheat to win. You are too cool for school.
That was the lesson, you learned it well Marky. But you failed at spelling and you failed to quote without fraud yourself. You qualify to lead the 911truth.
Here is the second of 4 large pieces of mis info. Just so you understand how PURPOSEFUL this has been
ok ill say this again, i understand the documentary is misleading, and agree it is bad and you have a case for concern, BUT only with those who misled knowingly.
im still waiting for proof that david ray griffin,s.jones and fetzer all said that "its all we have got" whilst knowing about the problems you flagged up with the documentary.
your logic is simply this, that if someone makes a film who is totally unrelated to 99% of people in the truth campagin, but mislead with sound then that is some how reflective of the other 99%?
im also sorry to be the one to inform you of this but the documentary in question is not needed to prove facts or raise questions about 9/11 in the first place so all the concerns regarding 9/11 still stand regardless.
just simple science can prove it.
so my point is this, yes get angry at those who delibratly misused your footage, but don't blame the rest who did'nt have a clue or was unaware untill you flagged it up(there may well be lots of people who still don't know).
a racing driver cheating does not mean the forumla 1 community have a agenda does it? it just means the driver had a agenda.
that was the point in that comment. because you seem angry with the whole 9/11 community for someone elses actions.
what makes you think im being led also? i don't follow anyone and just want the truth. and the truth is everything said in the documentary still stands because it was all there before the documentary even came along, and the same questions were being asked, even in your documentary, i remeber the bit on projectiles very well and it was one of things that got me questioning in the begining.
as a man who does not promote lies, i look forward to your evidence about ray griffin,s.jones and fetzer, rather than just say so.
im with you on about 90% of what your saying but i disagree with who you are trying to impliment as a result of someone elses actions.
The irony of a philosophy professor, who supposedly uncovers a hoax in the film from within the JFK conspiracy, now defending the same kind of hoax as “artistic” distortion of a “few seconds” (the bullet shot). This is, as the professor would say is, “beyond the pale”.
However the truth movement is not beyond parading insanity, lies, and distortions as brotherly love and tree hugging facts as long as it “tells their story”. A man who has no problem stating “Even if true I would not say it” now endorses the story that makes its facts based on cinematic fantasy and fictions.
My personal attempts to get James Fetzer to even mediate this issue back in January only led to his complete debauchery of morals by stating that it is ok to replace explosions, move them around, and do whatever and artist may thing is needed to obtain some artistic expression. Damn the facts full speed ahead. Let’s create that Hollywood blockbuster!
Well, I sent all the big leaders, Jones, Griffin, Fetzer, Woods, Floum, Burks the whole crew that information last January about the serious lies in 911 Mysteries and they ignored me. I made a video demonstrating only one of these serious lies and sent that to all of them. You see I am on a list with “all the big leaders” because I made that video on the Hoboken pier that fateful day.
Fetzer and the rest have backed the 911 Mysteries video and makers as heroes even though they pushed a fictionalized fantasy as a documentary that claims government malefeasance. Even seeing the proof of frauds these leaders of “911 truth” decided it was better to ignore this breach on humanity. Dr Griffin ignored my pleas and let stand his statement on the video “Excellent. The best of the 9/11 movies”. Fetzer not only reiterated his statement “The best 911 documentary we have.” but claimed lying is good, changing words fine, altering evidence something we have to do to get the story out. Pointing out lies and fabrications is counter productive to the truth movement. Steven Earl Jones only left this to say about it “WOW! is my reaction to this movie. Great insight into demolitions and what really happened on 9/11/2001.”
Did you notice how fast Sophia TOOK DOWN her video after I had them put back so that proof was alive? They were taken down by HER and replaced and not without reason. See if any of this footage is still there?
ok, i already agreed 9/11 mysteries is misleading and it was wrong to change real sound for false sound etc.
i cannot justify anyone supporting 9/11 mysteries even after knowing about the misleading part/s. although all ive heard on griffin/jones is not supported with physical proof i have no reason to think your lying.
so lets just imagine for one moment 9/11 mysteries did'nt exsist, do you think there would still be evidence for CD to question 9/11? would the same questions be asked by those who research 9/11 with 9/11 eyewitness out of the picture?
and what do you propose should be done now? stop asking questions lay down the gauntlet and be enslaved or murdered when the **** hits the fan when all our freedoms are gone?
the fact is all the questions people want answering are all still there without 9/11 eye witness, i agree it should be binned. but im confused why you think the whole of 9/11 truth is lies when it exsisted before 9/11 eye witness even came along.
ok, i already agreed 9/11 mysteries is misleading and it was wrong to change real sound for false sound etc.
Agreed
marky 54 wrote:
i cannot justify anyone supporting 9/11 mysteries even after knowing about the misleading part/s. although all ive heard on griffin/jones is not supported with physical proof i have no reason to think your lying.
While this is not understandable at all
marky 54 wrote:
so lets just imagine for one moment 9/11 mysteries did'nt exsist, do you think there would still be evidence for CD to question 9/11? would the same questions be asked by those who research 9/11 with 9/11 eyewitness out of the picture?
For one thing Markey Sophia has claimed on the recent Fetzer radio show that 9/11 Mysteries was never a documentary and was meant as an artistic expression to tell their story - it is fact less actually. So using it in research or evidence, as Sophia says herself, is not what her fictions are about. She claims to artistically alter to entertain her audience. It is all in the Fetzer Sophia interview on his show.
marky 54 wrote:
and what do you propose should be done now? stop asking questions lay down the gauntlet and be enslaved or murdered when the **** hits the fan when all our freedoms are gone?
I would suggest revolution and doing it now before you have to toss off a EU federal overseer as well as a Divine Right Kingdom.
marky 54 wrote:
the fact is all the questions people want answering are all still there without 9/11 eye witness, i agree it should be binned. but im confused why you think the whole of 9/11 truth is lies when it exsisted before 9/11 eye witness even came along.
Once again you make no sense. But let's break down:
marky 54 wrote:
the fact is all the questions people want answering are all still there without 9/11 eye witness,
There is no questions need answering Markey. The people know the answer, they are afraid to take the needed actions.
marky 54 wrote:
im confused why you think the whole of 9/11 truth is lies when it exsisted before 9/11 eye witness even came along.
It was there all the time. You just don’t see it. That is the actual idea of infiltration Markey, keep you questioning.
Well, I may be much more aware than you are, it would seem so. Did you speak at a few conferences; eat with them, live with them for days? Did you get to have phone calls with intimate insider bs? Nope, I know you did not. Were you offered bribes? Coerced? Told to say things that were not true? Will I saw and heard all that. I am first hand; you can only be second hand. Frankly, I don't give two * what you believe, in the end is what counts.
BUT, that is not why I tell you that. It is only why I am SURE. I tell you that because it is historically a fact. No humans have had organizations form with more than 5 people that are not infiltrated and controlled in the USA. They learned their spying from the British.
The human that thinks that rulers would not watch, infiltrate, and control the opposition is an idiot. Better left at the roadside after flattening.
You are faced with a man who cares not about sales, friends or gain. I care about freedom and liberty. 911truth orgs hate my guts because I would not play their game. I will continue my life to maintain my freedom and Liberty and help others along the way. I will do unimaginable things to those that stand in my way or try to remove those rights.
ok, i already agreed 9/11 mysteries is misleading and it was wrong to change real sound for false sound etc.
Agreed
marky 54 wrote:
i cannot justify anyone supporting 9/11 mysteries even after knowing about the misleading part/s. although all ive heard on griffin/jones is not supported with physical proof i have no reason to think your lying.
While this is not understandable at all
marky 54 wrote:
so lets just imagine for one moment 9/11 mysteries did'nt exsist, do you think there would still be evidence for CD to question 9/11? would the same questions be asked by those who research 9/11 with 9/11 eyewitness out of the picture?
For one thing Markey Sophia has claimed on the recent Fetzer radio show that 9/11 Mysteries was never a documentary and was meant as an artistic expression to tell their story - it is fact less actually. So using it in research or evidence, as Sophia says herself, is not what her fictions are about. She claims to artistically alter to entertain her audience. It is all in the Fetzer Sophia interview on his show.
marky 54 wrote:
and what do you propose should be done now? stop asking questions lay down the gauntlet and be enslaved or murdered when the **** hits the fan when all our freedoms are gone?
I would suggest revolution and doing it now before you have to toss off a EU federal overseer as well as a Divine Right Kingdom.
marky 54 wrote:
the fact is all the questions people want answering are all still there without 9/11 eye witness, i agree it should be binned. but im confused why you think the whole of 9/11 truth is lies when it exsisted before 9/11 eye witness even came along.
Once again you make no sense. But let's break down:
marky 54 wrote:
the fact is all the questions people want answering are all still there without 9/11 eye witness,
There is no questions need answering Markey. The people know the answer, they are afraid to take the needed actions.
marky 54 wrote:
im confused why you think the whole of 9/11 truth is lies when it exsisted before 9/11 eye witness even came along.
It was there all the time. You just don’t see it. That is the actual idea of infiltration Markey, keep you questioning.
Well, I may be much more aware than you are, it would seem so. Did you speak at a few conferences; eat with them, live with them for days? Did you get to have phone calls with intimate insider bs? Nope, I know you did not. Were you offered bribes? Coerced? Told to say things that were not true? Will I saw and heard all that. I am first hand; you can only be second hand. Frankly, I don't give two * what you believe, in the end is what counts.
BUT, that is not why I tell you that. It is only why I am SURE. I tell you that because it is historically a fact. No humans have had organizations form with more than 5 people that are not infiltrated and controlled in the USA. They learned their spying from the British.
The human that thinks that rulers would not watch, infiltrate, and control the opposition is an idiot. Better left at the roadside after flattening.
You are faced with a man who cares not about sales, friends or gain. I care about freedom and liberty. 911truth orgs hate my guts because I would not play their game. I will continue my life to maintain my freedom and Liberty and help others along the way. I will do unimaginable things to those that stand in my way or try to remove those rights.
the only reason for my questions was to understand where you are coming from on the portion of things i did'nt understand. i'd rather ask the man himself than pick up comments along the way that are other peoples opinons.
i understand now what your saying especially when you said it was there all the time, that is the idea of infiltration to keep you questioning or something to that effect.
thanks for that reply it helped me to understand what was meant by 9/11 truth agenda and what it was in reference to.
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: Distraction
Is the tool.
You seem to understand by looking in your heart what needs to be done. It is not legal to think it, it is not legal to talk about it, and it is against the laws of the actual beast to effectuate it. Mothers would rather give it up and its not the others jobsworth.
History always shows the way and repeats if you missed it. The problem is the fears, beer, sports and TV keep most distracted and in line. The ones like you who want to question? There are already keepers waiting. If you get by them there are more. If you try to stand tall in their den they will wield their full force at you to keep you quiet and keep their sheep in the proper places. Each in its own cubbyhole and doing fine things, cleaning the road afterwards and sharing the pint in the pub talking of how well the protest or leafleting or whatever went.
In the meantime the meantime.
I am out of here until I get the UK Truth and Lies Conference going for Sept 11. Anyone can find me on my http://www.ricksiegel.com/ or http://www.911researchers.com where I do not have to waste my time answering unfounded lies and put up my thoughts and research.
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