David Shayler - Manchurian Candidate?

[Tamborine man]

[mason-free party]

hey John..its not me sitting in crop circles trying to channel ET and the Council of Nine...you might find Palden or some other UN lucis trust fruit loop though

[John White]

[blackcat]

[TonyGosling]

I know it looks like I came up with the Mancunian Candidate headline to this thread but I didn't (I merged my post into a subsequent one) and I'm a little peturbed that Manchurian candidates are killers. Dave surely is not! Let's make that clear.

Now.

Where oh where in Jewish mysticism does all this Arcangel Metatron and Messianic Christ Conciousness stuff come from?? That''s a great question which I'll have a stab at answering. Particularly because Dave has denied Jesus's existence to me several times and he seems to be going down the 'everybody is God' route. Which actually is another way of saying there is no God.

Metatron comes from the Babylonian Talmud which runs in parallel with and in opposition to the Jerusalem Talmud. The Babylonian being a compilation of Rabbinic writings whih originated from the period of cptivity of the Jews in the ancient city of Babylon.

This is immediatly a BAD sign. Herein lies a sort of Babylonianised and corrupted version of Judaism which was acceptable to King Nebucadnezzer and his high priests back in the days. Essentially the Jerusalem Talmud is the original Rabinnic writings from when the Jews really were God's chosen and protected people - but on July 18th 586 BC that all ended as the Babylonian armies breached the walls of Jerusalem and destroyed the temple (a few weeks later)- taking the Jews captive.

Dave is following the Babylonian corruption, not the true scriptures of Judaism.

[Rowan Berkeley]

Metatron is not some sort of Babylonian add-on, Tony. He is a core component in merkabah mysticism, under various peculiar names, such as "Yahoel", "Zevoel", and "the Boy".

[TonyGosling]

And Merkabah. Is it in the Jerusalem or Babylonian tradition?

[Rowan Berkeley]

talmud starts getting written down, which is way into the xian era - the tradition on which both written versions are based is one and the same, and includes elements from the babylonian so-called "captivity", and palestinian elements too.

[TonyGosling]

Hey Rowan,
Are you doubting whetether or not the Jewish people were held captive in Babylon? Whether they were taken over? Your strange spellings and vague hints don't aid the discussion.
And the idea that the Talmud was an exclusively oral tradition before the birth of Christ is one view of many. The fact remains that it was felt necessary to divide the two traditions Jerusalem and Babylonian.
It seems clear to me which was the one that was corrupted by Babylonian paganism.

[egw]

[TonyGosling]

Read the Old Testament and... Bob's yer Uncle - you've got it

[egw]

Wouldn't I have to believe in the Old Testament to get it?

[TonyGosling]

[egw]

[pdx911action]

I love metaphysical debate as much as the next person, but back to Shayler...

My take on it is he was forced into a deal after being thrown into prison for whistle-blowing. We can only theorize what the terms might be, but they add up to "do what we say...or else".

Whether it was his idea to join 9/11 Truth and they co-opted it, or he was a plant from the beginning, his purpose has been to sow subtle...lately not so subtle...dis-info, among his otherwise good testimony.

Given his obvious intelligence, he knows what he's saying now is nonsense. At the very least, even if he did sincerely believe he was some sort of spiritual incarnation of whomever, he would know better than to undermine the credibility of 9/11 Truth by publicly making strange sounding statements.

Given the fact he was a genuine whistlblower, and was thrown in prison for it, I further suspect his desire to expose state malefence was and is genuine.

Thus, the best reason for Shayler's bizarre turn, that fits the facts as I know them, is they have him by the balls, so to speak, and he must be their dis-info puppet, or return to prison or worse.

This is, of course, just a theory, but it makes more sense to me than he suddenly had a mental breakdown. The most recent picture I saw of him, his eyes were dark and hollow, like he was losing sleep. He looked exhausted, but still sane.

[egw]

We internet sleuths look with suspicion on any US citizen who has spent a mere 6 months with the CIA, at the beginning of a long career apparently unrelated to anything the CIA might have an interest in. And there are examples where the citizen in question has been working with the CIA all along.

I would think it only fair that we look at the case of David Shayler with the same level of skepticism. His run in with the intelligence establishment appears to have been of little consequence to anyone, except it gave him status as a whistleblower.

And now look what he's up to.

[pdx911action]

[Tamborine man]

[B]

Latest report on Dave: He's stayed over with us in Highgate following a presentation of his new film the British Broadcasting Conspiracy on Saturday. (Great film & contribution to 9/11 Truth incidentally, nothing nutty about that!). It was a chance to try to find out if there is still any way of diverting him from his chosen course and we all had questions, including my daughter who is fascinated by this sudden metamorphosis of the sofa-lolling, dope-smoking ex-lodger into saviour of mankind! “What’s it like being the Messiah?” she asked, genuinely curious. The reply was likewise classic. “It’s a bit of a chore, actually, you’ve got to go around trying to convince people who don’t want to believe you.” It was hard to keep a straight face!

Other gems included “the Life of Brian isn’t much help to my cause.” But on the whole it was sad and worrying to see how rapidly he is deteriorating, even since his last visit 10 days ago; although he remains perfectly lucid and articulate there is less and less objectivity, the list of historical personages of whom he is the reincarnation (along with being Yeshua) seems to grow ever longer while the fuse holding back rage has grown visibly shorter. I showed him Stuart Wilde’s article on the ‘claridad’ syndrome (thanks Watcher for posting that) and the blood-pressure instantly mounted. “New World Order stuff,” he fumed. “And you can tell it’s rubbish because he says Mary Magdalen was a whore.”

I asked if he’s been giving any consideration to the effect of what he’s saying on other people, especially the 9/11 Truth community, had he been following the threads about him on the Forum?? “No, I never bother with the Forum.” “Well you should bother with the Forum, if you’re putting out an important message to the world you should check how it’s being received out there and find out if you’re getting across. Ask any politician.” “I’m not a politician.” “Well you’re a leader, then.” “I’m not a leader, I’m Yeshua, the incarnation of the Holy Spirit as well as the messenger from God, Messiah means messenger, I’ve come to teach the world, not lead it.” “Even more reason to consider whether your teaching is being properly understood properly by your pupils, you’re not a lonely reed singing in the wind, you’re surrounded by minds needing to be filled and instructed, you’ve got to consider the level at which they are at and how best to help them assimilate your message.” “They’ll understand well enough if they want to!” “Well if you go on the Forum and read some of the posts there, also what’s being said in the press and media you’ll realise that people just aren’t picking up your message, in fact the general conclusion seems to be that you’ve gone mad! So somehow or other you’re NOT getting across, shouldn’t you at least go away and think about that before going any further? In fact, going back to the original Messiah, Jesus for our purposes and also Mohammad, they each had long periods in the wilderness when they thought very carefully about what they were going to do and how best to do it. You haven’t had that period of withdrawal from the world, shouldn’t you be having that before bursting out with extraordinary stuff that people clearly just can’t take in?” “Well you’re wrong there, firstly I have had my wilderness period, what do you think all those years of being on the run were? And secondly people do understand what I’m saying, after my announcement in Glastonbury people were stunned, they gave me reverent looks, several of them gathered round to hear more…” “Well great, then, you’ve got the beginnings of a following, but again, going back to Jesus, gather your disciples around you and become a working team BEFORE taking on Jerusalem! You’re doing things in the wrong order. Also, take another leaf out of Jesus’ book and talk in PLAIN LANGUAGE without all this esoteric stuff thrown in, stick to the real world like Jesus did in 1st century Palestine, he was talking to farmers and fishermen and landlords of vineyards, tax-gatherers, centurions etc. and so he used metaphor that they could easily relate to. So now, consider your audience and talk to them in a down-to-earth way with points of reference that are already familiar to them. No one understands the Kabbalah or how one person can be the incarnation of about 20 famous historical figures at once. Talk to people about the War on Terror and the intelligence services and 9/11 like you were doing before, that goes down much better with modern people because it’s telling them about the world they’re living in now and how to see through the plots of the people in power and stop these stupid and massively destructive wars, that’s the teaching you need to be doing in my opinion. Bringing in all this other stuff and glorifying yourself in the process is just too confusing and also it’s distressing for people who used to respect you, they can’t understand what’s happened to you and I’m afraid that’s why so many are coming to the same conclusion.” “Well if people supported me instead of attacking me they’d soon see I’m right, I’d get on a lot better and so would they. But people don’t want to see The Light, that’s the tragedy.” “The Luciferians claim to be the bringers of Light into the world too, how can you be sure that what you perceive as ‘The Light’ and all these messages in your brain aren’t from quite a different source?” “Don’t think I haven’t been constantly asking myself the same question! but there are just too many signs all the time PROVING who I am and what my role is that I have no longer any doubt about it, that’s why I’ve just got to get on with it and tell the world.” “Well you may have seen the odd sign here and there but no one else has, frankly so how is anyone to know?” “Surely stopping a major bombing in London is proof enough isn’t it?” “Well yes it would be if anyone could prove it was your intervention through meditation or whatever that stopped that, but how do you prove that?” (Getting cross) “Well for a start YOU’D get on a lot better if you’d open your eyes and support me but I have to say to you that Yeshua tells me you’ve got huge issues to deal with so I do know why you’re not making much progress, frankly. If you’d be willing to let me as Yeshua take you through that I think you'd have a much better understanding of why you need to support me.” “But I am supporting you, I’m helping put food on your table and a roof over your head!” “Well, so you should, it's up to my followers to keep me in a state of bliss so that I can carry out my mission. But you’re undermining me, that’s the trouble, because you've got these serious things wrong which go right back and until you resolve them you won’t get any further.” “OK, please Yeshua tell me what is wrong with me so that I can work on that to put it right.” (Short silence while Dave checks with ‘The Great Compassion’ whether he can or can’t tell me what’s wrong with me). “No, Yeshua says now is not the right moment to tell you, you’ll have to wait.” “Oh, that’s very worrying for me, can you not just hint what it’s about, is it serious??” “Yes it’s serious.” “Did I hurt someone?” “Yes you did.” “Whom did I hurt?” “Tizzy.” [B’s schizophrenic daughter] “Well I know that already, I neglected her a bit when she was growing up but not that badly, no more than other busy parents struggling with jobs etc. neglect their children. But I never, never hurt her, of that I am totally sure.” “Well you allowed her to be hurt by someone else.” “Ah, that’s different, that’s not what you said first-off, I know all about that episode. But you started by referring to some massive character-defect in me. I’d like you to tell me about that. But OK if now is not the right moment it can certainly wait”

Etc. – there was a lot more besides on various related themes including all this stuff ‘proving’ Dave’s divinity, would you believe it, Totnes where Dave is currently staying means Birth of God – Tot = Tut, one of the ancient words for God and ‘ness’ = naissance or birth! And I think I’ve identified just who and what is whispering in Dave’s ear – an entity that likes pyramidal power for a start!! (he admitted as much, Annie also heard that bit clearly). Today he’s giving interviews to the Guardian and the Daily Mail and I believe the Independent’s lined up too. Hopefully Annie’s excellent piece in the MOS yesterday will have begun the delicate process of drawing a clear line of demarcation between the 9/11 truth campaign and Dave which is the reason why she expressly left 9/11 out of the article. On the personal/pastoral level we will of course continue to do all we can to support Dave (but not in the way he himself wishes!!) and do our best to bring him through this in one psychological piece but it’s not going to be easy. A propos, thank you Watcher, John White et al for your wisdom re.spiritual problems/psychic attack, there’s no wool over Outsider’s eyes either! and for pointing to appropriate avenues of treatment. I’m glad (almost) all agree that it would be preferable to avoid modern anti-psychotic drugs if we possibly can, they are so poisonous and disempowering, they wreck things like will and moral drive. If Steve H who’s looking after him could persuade him to cut down on the dope that might bring about an immediate improvement but Dave is notoriously difficult to persuade to do anything he doesn’t want to do.

If any in the network feel they could personally be of help/healing please PM me.

[TonyGosling]

Thanks B for the report on Dave.
So nothing's changed, he's now listening to something other than his friends and it's hardly suprising that's he's ignoring our discussions here. Ultimately that is up to him and there's not a lot we can do except point this fact out to him.
You're probably quite right about an 'entity'. It was was also spotted by a friend of mine who claims to have spiritual insights who says he saw it giving instructions in Dave's 'aura' here in Bristol.
Other weird stuff has been happening including the room Dave was staying in here being uninhabitable due to the presence of 'voices'.
Most people switch off when told of such phenomenon but not I.

[outsider]

Thanks, Tamborine Man, for that very interesting post. I don't know where you got that content from, it's not in King James or Douai.
However, it's been my take for a long while; as I say to people, the 'God' of the Old Testament is not the same 'God' as Jesus called his (and our) father (and Jesus of course never said he was God).
Where did you get that 'sermon'? It certainly rings true to me.

[pdx911action]

Very illuminating, B.

I am honestly sympathetic if he genuinely has had a breakdown. He is blessed to have a network of friends and supporters to help him...just remember you can only help him as much as he is willing to let you.

Unfortunately, if he's still "on the clock", in whatever capacity, this is also exactly how he would behave. And at this point, regardless of where Shayler is at, the rest of us have a responsibility to 9/11 Truth to firmly, if regretfully, push Shayler to the sidelines.

And B? Don't feel like you have failed as a friend. From your eloquent and well reasoned post(I particularly appreciated the "Jesus would talk to people in a language they understood" parts), you've gone above and beyond the call of duty!

[kbo234]

[Tamborine man]

[Mick Meaney]

Adrian is unable to access the forum at the moment and asked me to post this statement for him.

[kbo234]

Thanks for that Adrian and well said.

[TonyGosling]

[karlos]

Does anyone agree with my suggestion to remove the link at the front page to david shayler?

[TonyGosling]

I'm not that bothered
why don't you tart a poll

[moeen yaseen]

DELINKING SHAYLER POLL

Firstly I am NOT even going to attempt to reply to John White's last email outburst against me concerning Shayler on this thread. It is both irrelevant and contemptuous. I have more important things to do with my time. In response to Stelios who has not answered my email to second the motion I am pleased that Kenyon Gibson has seconded the delinkage poll and which is posted on the forum. Kenyon has also worked in the US intelligence services and was one of the earliest supporters in 2005 of this campaign like myself. At a time of intensification of the Global War OF Terror and rise in Islamophobia any serious movement like this can NOT tolerate the antics of David Shayler or be linked to him as it will TOTALLY undermine this movement.
I was also very interested to read the posts here on behalf of Adrian
Connock. The last post on the Second coming of Jesus by Tony is also relevant and interesting. However, from an Islamic pespective there is a substantial Prophetic NOT Quranic literature on the second coming of Jesus(Isa) and Imam MAHDI to restore Truth and Justice universally. This needs a separate dialogue.