Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: Religion! The Biggest Lie Ever Sold
I used to be a Christian for about 25 years. I was happily walking through the Christian faith happy to believe everything I was told and read. For a few years I went on like this. Then a time came when I started questioning the things I saw happening. I was part of the church ministry, and deeply involved with the spreading of the Gospel. The more I learned. The more I began questioning the meaning of faith. What is was and how it came to be. It did not sit right with me. I began to question everything I was learning. It would not make sense, however it was explained to me. I researched the beginings of religion. I found out that Christianity, had it roots firmly in Paganism. Everything I had learned was not true. Neither was it original. To cut a long story short. I left the church. That was four years ago now. Since then I have learned much more about the lies of Christianity. But I was still short of knowledge regarding this faith and others. If you are a Christian. Your are therefore being deceived and vulnerable to future brain washing. As I was. Like any other cult. Christianity is a lie and one that you should escape from. It kills. It persecutes, and it lies. I urge anyone who claims to be a Christian. Or any other religion to watch this film. If you doubt this evidence. Then you are in real need of help or just bloody minded. I do not hold that all religion is the cause of war. But the main religions seem to be involed one hell of a lot. (I do not believe in Hell either)
Link _________________ "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be alseep to believe it"
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: Evolution! The Biggest Lie Ever Sold
Evolution! The Biggest Lie Ever Sold
More fool you mister Sherlock.
I have been a Christian since the age of about 22 and have continuously questioned everything both Christians and non-Christians have tried to get me to believe. The Bible represents the best in underground movements of our ancestors who were far less mind-controlled than people in the West today. It should be treated with great respect and in many ways it is a miracle that the dark forces have not stamped it out.
Of course the Bible was not 'written by God' as some idiots try to pretend that Christian and religious Jews believe, but rather by ordinary people in extraordinary situations who were touched by God's love and power.
David WJ Sherlock wrote:
I used to be a Christian for about 25 years. I was happily walking through the Christian faith happy to believe everything I was told and read.
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Evolution! The Biggest Lie Ever Sold
TonyGosling wrote:
Evolution! The Biggest Lie Ever Sold
More fool you mister Sherlock.
I have been a Christian since the age of about 22 and have continuously questioned everything both Christians and non-Christians have tried to get me to believe. The Bible represents the best in underground movements of our ancestors who were far less mind-controlled than people in the West today. It should be treated with great respect and in many ways it is a miracle that the dark forces have not stamped it out.
Of course the Bible was not 'written by God' as some idiots try to pretend that Christian and religious Jews believe, but rather by ordinary people in extraordinary situations who were touched by God's love and power.
David WJ Sherlock wrote:
I used to be a Christian for about 25 years. I was happily walking through the Christian faith happy to believe everything I was told and read.
Whatever! The Evidence is there. _________________ "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be alseep to believe it"
Very true, but most christians will not even watch that film, beyond the first 5 minutes, nor will they consider any of the arguments contained within it. I saw what kind of responses it got in the other thread about it, not pretty...and this from 'truthseekers'...
David, you are a fabulous campaigner and i respect you.
But attacking religion is not the target you should be aiming at.
Why not embrace other ideals if you are put off by your particular sect of religion which has upset you.
The bible was written by man, but it is pretty close to what we should do.
As you know i am not a Christian but i will defend it because i share 95% of it's teachings.
Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within all of us, so you do not need to belong to any church at all. God needs no proxy.
Far better to study religion from your home and not to listen to people who may not have your best interest at heart.
all religions are a force for good.
Darwinism has been proven to be a pack of lies David, so please dont go down the path of humaism, atheism, eugenics, which in the end leads to practices such as euthanasia, abortion, wars. Dont forget Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc were all atheist and followers of Darwin. Between them they probably killed 100 million fellow human beings.
The discovery of DNA has proven that there is not such thing as evolution. Everything has its own unique DNA and no matter what there are no transitional species and no half human half monkey fossils.
David, surely you dont believe that you came out of the sea, climbed up a tree, ate a banana then stood up straight and shed all your heir. Darwinism is a ridiculous lie. Made by a man 150 years and the cause of all evil in the world today.
Those 4 i have named above. feel free to counter them with examples of good atheists. I am sure you cant.
So David before you reject God, think of other ways of keeping your faith. _________________
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject:
Dogsmilk wrote:
As a non-Christian agnostic, I would seriously recommend properly investigating the 'evidence' in that film.
...........
Speaking as an ex christian from a family mostly of the church,I very much agree with "always question the evidence", in this films case that should not be too difficult.
................
Tony,I know David Sherlock has some 1st hand experiences in the religious field,so he does know what he's talking about.
David, you are a fabulous campaigner and i respect you.
But attacking religion is not the target you should be aiming at.
Why not embrace other ideals if you are put off by your particular sect of religion which has upset you.
The bible was written by man, but it is pretty close to what we should do.
As you know i am not a Christian but i will defend it because i share 95% of it's teachings.
Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within all of us, so you do not need to belong to any church at all. God needs no proxy.
Far better to study religion from your home and not to listen to people who may not have your best interest at heart.
all religions are a force for good.
Darwinism has been proven to be a pack of lies David, so please dont go down the path of humaism, atheism, eugenics, which in the end leads to practices such as euthanasia, abortion, wars. Dont forget Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc were all atheist and followers of Darwin. Between them they probably killed 100 million fellow human beings.
The discovery of DNA has proven that there is not such thing as evolution. Everything has its own unique DNA and no matter what there are no transitional species and no half human half monkey fossils.
David, surely you dont believe that you came out of the sea, climbed up a tree, ate a banana then stood up straight and shed all your heir. Darwinism is a ridiculous lie. Made by a man 150 years and the cause of all evil in the world today.
Those 4 i have named above. feel free to counter them with examples of good atheists. I am sure you cant.
So David before you reject God, think of other ways of keeping your faith.
I reject organized religion. Religion has killed more than any of those dictators. Not that I indorse them. We fight the forces that control. Religion falls into that category. As a ex-Christian. I have it on first hand experience. That today's churches are helping to usher in the NWO. Ecumenical 2000. The World Council of Churches is largely responsible on that score. Through out the ages. Religion has been a force for oppression. This is not a lie. This is historical fact. Christian religions have played a great part in this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/26/nchur2 6.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixnewstop.html The church is corrupt. Immoral and dangerous to our future. They are a part of the system they are supposed to be against (666). They largely indorse the Freemasons. And support the government and their wars. They have always supported Royalty and it's empire building. There maybe a creator of the universe. But it is not that murdering callous, duplicitous deity of the bible. The fact that the Bible was written by man. Is the very basis for it's corruption. We have known for years that the church as her roots in the Pagan Religion. Easter and Christmas are two examples of their error. The same as the Charismatic Christians have their roots in Voodoo.
December 25 was also the Day of Saturnalia, a celebration dedicated to the Chief god, Saturn, during which time there was much drinking, many banquets, and presents were exchanged.
God is very clear in his directives against the celebration of this Pagan holiday that Christians now universally celebrate as Christmas. God calls this an abomination! Christians celebrate December 25th blindly believe they are honoring the birth of Jesus, when they are in reality honoring the Pagan god Tammuz. The lies go, on and on and on.....
The Christianization of Pagan holidays began about the fourth century A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine, became (or feigned becoming) a Christian. In order to consolidate his rule, he incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the church ritual - attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities - thus appeasing the Christians. Over the centuries, this practice has continued until the present time where we find the two systems, Paganism and Christianity, almost indistinguishable.
This is the Adversary's clever deception - Paganism dressed up in Christian clothes! It's still nothing more than Paganism, but the Christian churches have wholeheartedly embraced this deception
I have viewed the evidence in that film. And it concurs with what I have learned. _________________ "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be alseep to believe it"
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject:
A search for one of more obscure names mentioned,that of Ixion of Rome reveals this lot:
Quote:
Like Christmas, Easter has traditions that are not as pure and unique as people would like others to believe. To most, the origins are not important. Whether or not one is religiously motivated, the following quotations should bring some fascinating reading and food-for-thought, to say the very least.
Origins of Easter
"The Greek 'pascha', formed from the Hebrew, is the name of the Jewish festival, applied invariably in the primitive church to designate the festival of the Lord's resurrection, which took place at the time of the passover. Our word, Easter, is of Saxon origin, and of precisely the same import with its German cognate 'Ostern'. The latter is derived from the old Teutonic form of 'auferstehn', 'auferstehung', ie. 'resurrection. The name, Easter, as expressive of meaning, is undoubtedly preferable to pascha or passover, but the latter was the primitive name". (Eusebius, p. 207).
"The well-known Barne's Notes comments on this mistranslation in this single occurrence of the word 'Easter' in the King James version, as follows, 'There was never a more absurd or unhappy translation than this". (Koster, p. 23,24).
"Easter had a pre-Christian origin, namely a festival in honor of Eostre, the Teutonic dawn-goddess, and as Usha or Ushas, the Hindu dawn-goddess. This Eostre was also known to be the spring goddess and the goddess of fertility. Thus, another form of Sun-worship, another variant in the form of a dawn-deity, Eostre, also called Eastre, Eostra, Ostara, was adopted by or merged with Christianity. This same dawn-goddess was also well known in the Greek classics...as Eos (the Roman Aurora) and the Assyrian Ishtar, goddess of the morning. In classical mythology, Eos, was an amorous deity and the idea of fertility with its fertility-symbols of eggs and rabbits was to be expected". (Koster, pp. 24, 25).
"Most likely this Eostre, dawn deity/fertility deity, is the same Astarte, which is recorded in the Hebrew of the Old Testament as Ashtaroth and Ashtoreth (the latter being changed because of deliberate Hebrew misvocalization). The name of Astarte was Ishtar in Nineve. She was also known as the 'queen of heaven'". (Koster, p. 25 with his reference from Gray's Interpreters' Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 1, p. 255).
"Other spring festivals were celebrated with the rites of Adonis or of Tammuz (well known as the youthful Sun-deity) which were held in summer in some places, but held in spring in others, such as Sicily and Syria. Our dead and risen Messiah being assimilated to the pagan celebration of the dead and risen Adonis (Tammuz)...Ezek. 8: 9 and 14". (Koster, p. 25).
"How a once-tumultuous Saxon festival to Eastre was transformed into a solemn Christian service is another example of the supreme authority of the Church early in its history". (Panati's, p. 55).
Lent
"As the church moved away from the fervor of apostolic times, people's piety began to wan, and bishops cast about for some celebration that would deepen the devotional approach to Easter, climax of the spiritual year...Some observed a total fast for exactly forty days (minus the Lord's Day, Sunday), a feast called Quadragesima, which would evolve into Lent". (Panati, p. 206).
"The forty days' abstinence of Lent was directly borrowed from the worshippers of the Babylonian goddess. Such a Lent of forty days, 'in the spring of the year', is still observed by the Yezidis or Pagan Devil-worshippers of Koordistan who have inherited it from their early masters, the Babylonians. Such a Lent of forty days was held in spring by the Pagan Mexicans, for thus we read in Humboldt (Mexican Researches) where he gives account of Mexican observances: " Three days after the vernal equinox...began a solemn fast of forty days in honour of the sun". Such a Lent of forty days was observed in Egypt...expressly in commemoration of Adonis or Osiris, the great mediatorial god. At the same time, the rape of Proserpine seems to have been commemorated, and in a similar manner... "forty nights" the "wailing for Proserpine" continued...Among the Pagans this Lent seems to have been an indispensable preliminary to the great annual festival in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz which was celebrated by alternate weeping and rejoicing...being observed in Palestine and Assyria in June, therefore called the "month of Tammuz"". (Hislop, pp. 104, 105). "But at last, when the worship of Astarte was rising into the ascendant, steps were taken to get the whole Chaldean Lent of six weeks, or forty days, made imperative on all within the Roman Empire of the West. The way was prepared for this by a Council held at Aurelia in the time of Hormisdas, Bishop of Rome, about the year 519, which decreed that Lent should be solemnly kept before Easter." (Hislop, pp. 106, 107).
Palm Sunday
"On the Sunday before his Resurrection, Jesus rode victoriously into Jerusalem, cheered by crowds, fanned by palm branches...Matthew 21:8-9..." (Panati, p. 207).
"As the custom of blessing palm branches spread, countries lacking the tree were forced to make substitutions. Hence, Palm Sunday became known in other lands as: Olive Sunday, Willow Bough Sunday, Blossom Sunday, and simply the generic Branch Sunday..." (Panati, p. 208).
"Palm Tree. In ancient Egypt it was sacred to the sun god, Re, and represented the fertility of the crops...In Judaism, it is an emblem of Judea; in Christianity of Christ's entry into Jerusalem". (Bruce-Mitford, p. 44). "Palm. Solar...The Tree of Life...As phallic it signifies virility and fertility, but if depicted with dates it is feminine...Arabian: The Tree of Life...Christian:...immortality and as such, is sometimes depicted with the phoenix; divine blessing...associated with Jesus Christ... Greek: Emblem of Apollo...Hebrew: The righteous man; emblem of Judea after the Exodus; Sumero-Semetic: A Tree of Life, emblem of Phoenician Baal-Tamar (the Lord of the Palm) and of Astarte and the Assyro-Babylonian Ishtar." (Cooper, under Palm)
Shrove Tuesday
"Shrove Tuesday, or as we know it today, "Pancake Tuesday" seems in the olden time to have been a season of merriment, horseplay and cruelty, as if the participants were determined to have their fling ere Lent set in with its sombre feelings and proscription of joy...Taylor in his Jack-a-Lent (1630), gives the following curious account of the custom: ""Shrove Tuesday, at whose entrance in the morning all the whole kingdom is inquiet, but by that time the clocke strikes eleven, which (by the help of a knavish sexton) is commonly before nine, then there is a bell rung, cal'd the Pancake-bells, the sound of whereof makes thousands of people distracted, and forgetful either of manners or humanitie,; then there is a thing called the wheaten floure which the cookes do mingle with water, eggs, spice, and other tragical magical inchantments...it is transformed into the forme of a Flip-Jack, cal'd a Pancake, which ominous incantation the ignorant people doe devoure very greedily"...Brand informs us that the luxury and intemperance which prevailed were vestiges of the Roman Carnival. The modern pancake, translated from the history of the past, seems to suggest the old saying, "Let us eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"". (Knowlson, pp. 22, 23).
Ash Wednesday
"The first day of Lent, a Wednesday, was always special and it came to be called Ash Wednesday from a custom involving ashes, long a symbol for repentance. Early Christians approached the church altar to have the ashes of blessed palm leaves scored on their forehead in the shape of a cross...The blessed palm leaves that are burned to make the ashes are, in fact, "leftovers" from the previous year's Palm Sunday. This Lenten custom originated in the 6th Century, during the papacy of Gregory the Great. The astrological origin of the word "Wednesday" is revealed in its Latin name, Mercurii dies, literally, "Mercury's day". It entered English through the Anglo Saxon equivalent, Wodnes daeg. Mercury, in Roman mythology, was the messenger of the gods, usually depicted with winged feet; he is not unlike a Christian angel. Woden was the Saxon god of war and victory". (Panati, pp. 206, 207).
Easter Sunrise Services
"In the earliest of Christianity, congregants prayed while facing east, in the direction of the rising sun. The custom is pagan and ancient...For Christians, Jesus Christ was the "sun of righteousness"...In Roman Catholicism...the priest...might or might not face the rising sun...Jews face east, toward Jerusalem, the Holy City, as a token of respect. The Ark of synagogues in the Western world is deliberately placed on the eastern wall so the congregation faces east as it prays". (Panati, pp. 15, 16). "The whole subject of Easter, its Sunday-emphasizing date, and its pagan emblems and rites, such as Easter sunrise services, is crowned by the general admission that the word "Easter" is derived from the name of a goddess, the dawn-goddess, the spring deity, the goddess of fertility". (Koster, p. 27). "East. The rising sun; dawn; spring...It is the direction towards which worship is oriented, especially for all solar gods..." (Cooper, under East).
Easter Bunny
"It just so happened that Eastre, a fertility goddess (the ancient word 'eastre' means 'spring') had as her earthly symbol the prolific hare, or rabbit. Hence, the origin of the Easter bunny". (Panati, p. 205).
"A pre-Christian symbol of rebirth and renewal of life at the beginning of the vernal equinox. A hare or rabbit, is the emblem of Ostara, or Eastre, Teutonic goddess of Spring and dawn..." (Cooper, under Easter Egg, Rabbit)
Easter Eggs
"From the earliest times, and in most cultures, the egg signified birth and resurrection". (Panati's, p. 56).
"The egg as origin of the universe is found in myths throughout the world...and in Christianity can represent the virgin birth." (Bruce-Mitford, p. 49).
"The egg as the origin of the world is found in Egypt, Phoenicia, India, China, Japan, Greece, Central America, Fiji, and Finland. The golden egg is the sun...In Christianity, it can signify the virgin birth." (Cooper, under Egg).
"Gébélin, author of the Religious History of the Calendar... "the Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Greeks, Gauls, and others - regarded the egg as an emblem of the Universe - a work of the Supreme Divinity. Easter was the time of the solar New Year - the day of the renewal of all things - the incubation of Nature.' The coloring and ornamentation of Easter eggs seems to have been part of the original custom, and was taken over by the Church, who used red to denote the blood of Christ". (Knowlson, pp. 36, 37).
"Now the Romish Church adopted this mystic egg of Astarte, and consecrated it as a symbol of Christ's resurrection". (Hislop, p. 110).
"The origin of the Pasch eggs is just as clear...From Egypt these sacred eggs can be directly traced to the banks of the Euphrates..."An egg of wondrous size is said to have fallen from heaven into the river Euphrates. The fishes rolled it to the bank, where the doves, having settled upon it and hatched it, out came Venus, who afterwards was called the Syrian Goddess" that is, Astarte. Hence, the egg became one of the symbols of Astarte or Easter". (Hislop, p. 109).
Hot Cross Buns
"At the feast to Eastre, an ox was sacrificed and the image of his horns carved into ritual bread - which evolved into the twice-scored Easter biscuits we call hot cross buns. In fact, the word 'bun' derives from the Saxon for 'sacred ox', 'boun'." (Panati, p. 205).
"Hutchinson, in his History of Northumberland, following Mr. Bryant's Antient Mythology, derives the Good Friday Bun from the sacred cakes which were offered at the Arkite Temples, styled Boun, and presented every seventh day...Hesychius speaks of the Boun, and describes it a kind of cake with horns.
Diogenes Laertius, speaking of the same offering being made by Empedocles describes the chief ingredients of which it was composed "He offered one of the sacred Liba, called a Bouse, which was made of fine flour and honey"...The prophet Jeremiah takes notice of this kind of offering when he is speaking of the Jewish women at Pathros, in Egypt, and of their base idolatry in all which their husbands had encouraged them...Jeremiah xliv.18,19; 7:18..." (Knowlson, pp. 28, 29).
"The 'buns'...were used in the worship of the queen of heaven, the goddess Easter, as early as the days of Cecrops, the founder of Athens - that is, 1500 years before the Christian era. "One species of sacred bread" says Bryant, 'which used to be offered to the gods, was of great antiquity, and called Boun'...The hot cross buns are not now offered, but eaten, on the festival of Astarte; but this leaves no doubt as to whence they have been derived". (Hislop, p. 108).
"Early church fathers, to compete with the pagan custom of baking ox-marked cakes...accomplished three objectives: Christianized a pagan cake; gave the people a treat they were accustomed to; and subtly scored the buns with an image that, though decidedly Catholic, at a distance would not dangerously label the bearer 'Christian'." (Panati's, pp. 57, 5.
Pomegranate
"The many seeds embedded in the pulp of the fruit came to symbolize fertility; the entire fruit goddesses like the Phoenician Astarte (or Ashtoreth), Demeter, and Persephone (Latin Ceres and Proserpina), Aphrodite (Venus), and Athena." (Biedermann, p. 271).
"Besides the mystic egg, there was also another emblem of Easter, the goddess queen of Babylon, and that was the Rimmon, or 'pomegranate'. With the Rimmon or 'pomegranate' in her hand, she is frequently represented in ancient medals, and the house of Rimmon, in which the King of Damascus, the Master of Namaan, the Syrian, worshipped, was in all liklihood a temple of Astarte". (Hislop, p. 110).
"But upon more searching inquiry, it turns out that the Rimmon or 'pomegranate' had reference to an entirely different thing. Astarte, or Cybele, was called also Idaia Mater, and the sacred mount in Phrygia...was named Mt. Ida - that is, in Chaldee...the Mount of Knowledge. 'Idaia Mater' then signifies 'the Mother of Knowledge' - in other words, our Mother Eve, who first coveted the 'knowledge of good and evil'...Astarte, as can be abundantly shown, was worshipped not only as an incarnation of the Spirit of God, but also of the Mother of mankind...represented with the fruit of the pomegranate in her extended hand...the fruit of the 'Tree of "Knowledge'". (Hislop, pp. 110, 111).
"The pomegranates with the bells on the priestly vestment represent fecundating thunder and lightning." (Cooper, under Pomegranate).
At this point some observations:
Why would the "unique" God of Israel instruct HIS priests to wear the pagan symbol of the 'pomegranate' on their robes when they came before Him? Exodus 28: 33, 34; Exodus 39: 24-26)
The "Wise" King Solomon called by this same "God of Israel", also made extensive use of the 'sacred pomegranate'. I Kings 7; 2 Kings 25: 16, 17; 2 Chronicles 3: 16; 2 Chronicles 4: 13; Jeremiah 52: 20-23.
Cross
Fundamental to the Easter season, is the firm belief of Christ's crucifixion on a cross. This symbol alone is the most revered idol of worship. Therefore, we must investigate its origin.
"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
"...historical evidence points to Constantine as the one who had the major share in uniting Sun-worship and the Messianic Belief. Constantine's famous vision of 'the cross superimposed on the sun", in the year 312, is usually cited. Writers, ignorant of the fact that the cross was not to be found in the New Testament Scriptures, put much emphasis on this vision as the onset of the so-called ' conversion' of Constantine". (Koster, pp. 30, 31).
"In the Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, vol. 14, p. 273, we read, 'In the Egyptian churches, the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner'." (Koster, p. 30).
"The Romans, who crucified Jesus, did not themselves dream up crucifixion on a cross as a cruel form of punishment. They adopted both the symbol and the torture from the Phoenicians..." (Panati, p. 119)
"The most universal of the simple symbolic figures, its importance is in no way limited to the Christian world." (Biedermann, p. 81).
"There is evidence of the cross as a symbol from the remotest ages in Egypt, China, and in Crete where a cross dating from the fifteenth century BC has been discovered..." (Chevalier & Gheerbrant, p. 248)
"The first form of that which is called the 'Christian Cross' found on Christian monuments there (referring to Egypt), is the unequivocal Pagan Tau, or Egyptian 'Sign of life'". Hislop, p. 201)
"The cross on which Jesus was crucified was probably a tau cross (also call "St. Anthony's cross"), formed like the letter T..." (Biederman, p. 351).
"The T cross; life; the key to supreme power; phallic. It is also the cross of Mithraism and Thor's Hammer and as a hammer, an attribute of thunder and smith gods." (Cooper, under Tau).
"Further proof of its pagan origin is the recorded evidence of the vestal virgins of pagan Rome having the cross hanging on a necklace, and the Egyptians doing it too, as early as the 15th century BCE. The Buddhists and numerous other sects of India, also used the sign of the cross as a mark on their followers' heads". (Koster, pp. 32,33 citing numerous references).
"There is hardly a Pagan tribe where the cross has not been found. The Cross was worshipped by the Pagan Celts long before the incarnation and death of Christ...The cross thus widely worshipped, or regarded as a sacred emblem, was the unequivocal symbol of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah..." (Hislop, p. 199).
"Tammuz, alias Bacchus, has a surname: 'Ies' or HIS. He was also known as the Fish (Ichthus), and had the Tau, the cross, as his sign. These three (Ies, the Fish, and the cross), have survived, and are still with us!" (Koster, p.66).
"In Jewish and Christian traditions, the sign of the cross belongs to primitive initiation ceremonies. The Christian cross is prefigured in the Old Testament by the door posts and lintels of the children of Israel being marked with the blood of the Passover lamb in the sign of the cross. The lamb itself was roasted on two spits crosswise to each other." (Chevalier & Gheerbrant, p. 253).
"According to tradition, the symbol painted in blood on an Israelite's doorstep to spare the slaughter of the firstborn was in the form of the tau cross. In an instance of prophesy, this cross is also said to be the type Christ was nailed to...John 3:14. This passage has led some to conclude that Christ must have been nailed to a tau cross and not a Latin cross." (Panati, p. 123).
"The same sign of the cross that Rome now worships was used in the Babylonian Mysteries, was applied by Paganism to the same magic purposes was honoured with the same honours. That which is now called the Christian cross was originally no Christian emblem at all, but was the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians - the true original form of the letter T - the initial of the name of Tammuz - which, in Hebrew, radically the same as ancient Chaldee, as found on coins...That mystic Tau was marked in baptism on the foreheads of those initiated in the Mysteries, and was used in every variety of ways as a most sacred symbol." (Hislop, pp. 197, 198).
To say that such superstitious feeling for the sign of the cross, such worship as Rome pays to a wooden or a metal cross, ever grew out of the saying of Paul, "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ", that is, in the doctrine of Christ crucified - is a mere absurdity, a shallow subterfuge and pretence. The magic virtues attributed to the so-called sign of the cross, the worship bestowed on it, never came from such a source". (Hislop, p. 197).
"...in Egypt the earliest form of that which has since been called the cross, was no other than the ' Crux Ansata' or 'sign of life' born by Osiris and all the Egyptian gods; that the ansa or 'handle' was afterwards dispensed with and that it became the simple Tau, or ordinary cross, as it appears in this day, and that the design of its first employment on the sepulchres, therefore, could have no reference to the crucifixion of the Nazarene, but was simply the result of the attachment to old and long-cherished Pagan symbols, which is always strong in those who, with the adoption of the Christian name and profession, are still, to a large extent, Pagan in heart and feeling. This, and this only, is the origin of the worship of the "cross"". (Hislop, p. 201).
Crucifixion and Resurrection
Easter is celebrated as the time when the "Saviour of the World, Jesus Christ, was crucified". The following is a list of other "crucified saviours" taken from the on-line book The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors by Kersey Graves (1875), chapter 16 - unless otherwise stated. The dates given are the estimated dates of their crucifixions.
Chrishna of India (1200 BC)
"depicted in artwork as being "suspended on the cross...holes pierced in his feet..." "... the Hindoo crucified God and Son of God 'our Lord and Savior' Chrishna"..."
Sakia of India (600 BC)
"He in mercy left Paradise, and came down to earth because he was filled with compassion for the sins and miseries of mankind. He sought to lead then into bitter paths, and took their sufferings upon himself that he might expiate their crimes and mitigate the punishment they must otherwise inevitably undergo" - called 'The Savior of the World' 'The Benevolent One' 'The Source of Life, the Light of the World' The Dispenser of Grace.'
Tammuz of Syria (1160 BC)
"Trust, ye saints, in your Lord restored Trust ye in your risen Lord; For the pains which Thammuz endured Our salvation have procured." (Ctesias, 400 BC author of Persika as quoted by Graves)
Wittoba of the Telingonesic (552 BC)
"Mr. Higgins tells us, "He is represented in his history with nail-holes in his hands and the soles of his feet."
Iol of Nepal (622 BC)
"...he was crucified on a tree in Nepaul"
Hesus of the Celtic Druids (834 BC)
"...crucified with a lamb on one side and an elephant on the other...the elephant...represents the magnitude of the sins of the world, while the lamb...represents the innocency of the victim (the God offered as a propitiatory sacrifice)..."
Quexalcote of Mexico (587 BC)
"The Mexican Antiquites (vol. Vi, p. 166) says "Quexalcote is represented in the paintings of 'Codex Borgianus' as nailed to the cross". Sometimes two thieves are represented as having been crucified with him."
Quirinus of Rome (506 BC)
"He was 'put to death by wicked hands' ie. crucified...And finally he is resurrected and ascends back to heaven."
(Aeschylus) Prometheus of Caucasus (547 BC)
"Lo! Streaming from the fatal tree His all atoning blood, Is this the Infinite? - Yes, tis he, Prometheus, and a God! Well might the sun in darkness hide, And veil his glories in, When God, the great Prometheus, died, For man the creature's sin."
Thulis of Egypt (1700 BC)
"...died the death of a cross...was buried, but rose again, ascended into heaven, and there became 'the judge of the dead' or of souls in a future state..."
Indra of Tibet (725 BC)
"...in Georgius', Thibetinum Alphabetum, p. 230...this Tibetan Savior...nailed to the cross. There are five wounds, representing the nail-holes and the piercing of the side."
Alcestos of Euripides (600 BC)
"The 'English Classical Journal' (vol. xxxvii) furnishes us with the story of another crucified God...being the first, if not the only example of a feminine God atoning for the sins of the world upon a cross."
Atys of Phyrgia (1170 BC)
"He was suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again (from the Anacalypsis)."
Crite of Chaldea (1200 BC)
"He was also known as 'the Redeemer' and was styled 'The Ever Blessed Son of God', 'The Savior of the Race'...And when he was offered up, both heaven and earth were shaken to their foundations."
Bali of Orissa (725 BC)
"...in Asia, they have the story of a crucified God known by...'Lord Second' having reference to him as the second person or second member of the trinity, as most of the crucified Gods occupied that position..."
Mithra of Persia (600 BC)
"This Persian God, according to Mr. Higgins, was 'slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind, and to take away the sins of the world'. He was reputedly born on the twenty-fifth day of December and was crucified on a tree."
"...we might note other cases of crucifixions. Devatat of Siam, Ixion of Rome, Apollonius of Tyana in Cappadocia, are all reported in history as having died the death of the cross...For, like Paul, they were "determined to know nothing but Jesus Christ and him crucified" (I Cor. 2:2) ie., to know no other God had been crucified but Jesus Christ. They thus exalted the tradition of the crucifixion into the most important dogma of the Christian faith. Hence, their efforts to conceal from the public a knowledge of the fact that it is of pagan origin." (Graves, chpt. 16)
"According to the emblematical figures comprised in their astral worship, people were saved by the sun's crucifixion or crossification, realized by crossing over the equinoctial line into the season of spring, and thereby gave out a saving heat and light to the world and stimulated the generative organs of animal and vegetable life. It was from this conception that the ancients were in the habit of carving or painting the organs of generation upon the walls of their holy temples. The blood of the grape, which was ripened by the heat of the sun, as he crossed over by resurrection into spring (ie, was crucified), was symbolically 'the blood of the cross' or 'the blood of the Lamb'." (Graves, Chpt. 16).
"Osiris was to his worshippers "the god-man, the first of those who rose from the dead" and that his death and resurrection were therefore supposed to be in some way beneficial to mankind." (Legge, p. 1-126 FN)
"...from very early times there had been worshipped with mysterious rites a divine couple who were known only as "The God" and "The Goddess". This pair, as we may guess from an illusion in Hesiod, otherwise called Zeus Chthonios or the infernal Zeus, god of the underworld, and Demeter, the ancient earth-goddess, who was worshipped with her lover under the various names of Ma, Cybele, Astarte, Rhea, Isis throughout Asia Minor, Syria, Phoenicia, and Egypt. As the lover of the earth-goddess, in all these cases suffered death and resurrection, the Orphites had to work into the history of their Dionysos Zagreus. But they carried the idea further than any of their predecessors by connecting this death and re-birth with the origin of man and his survival after death." (Legge, p. 1-126)
Conclusion
"It is interesting that the holiest day of the liturgical Christian year, Easter Sunday, bears the name of the pagan sex goddess Eastre and the pagan sun god Solis". (Panati, p. 205).
"In the Christian faith, Easter is the most sacred of holy days because it commemorates the cornerstone miracle of the faith - had Christ not risen, Christianity could never have flourished, since the man Jesus would not have proved to be the Son-of-God Jesus. But the holy day's name derives from an ancient pagan festival and is the name of the Saxon goddess of spring and offspring, Eastre. How did a raucous pagan ritual evolve into a solemn Christian service? Second century missionaries...tried not to interfere too strongly with entrenched and popular customs. Rather...they attempted to transform pagan practises into ceremonies that harmonized with Christian doctrine". (Panati, pp. 204, 205).
"To conciliate the pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome, pursuing its usual policy, took measures to get Christian and pagan festival amalgamated, and, by a complicated but skilful adjustment of the calendar, it was found no difficult matter, in general, to get Paganism and Christianity - now far sunk in idolatry - in this and in so many other things, to shake hands". (Koster, pp. 25, 26 taken from Hislop, p. 105 and Frazer's The Golden Bough, pp. 344-347).
"The misgivings of the lead character in novelist John Irving's A Prayer for Owen Meany, seems to be shared by more than a few people: "I find that Holy Week is draining; no matter how many times I have lived through his crucifixion, my anxiety about his resurrection is undiminished - I am terrified that, this year, it won't happen; that, that year, it didn't"". (Bibby, p. 127).
Karen Toole Mitchell, a United Church Observer columnist has stated, "Let's face it, the resurrection is hard enough to defend without adding the ascension." (Bibby, p. 136).
Bibliography
Bibby, Reginald W. Unknown Gods. Toronto: Stoddart Publ. Co. Ltd., 1993.
Biedermann, Hans. Dictionary of Symbolism. New York: Facts on File, Inc., 1992.
Bruce-Mitford, Miranda. The Illustrated Book of Signs and Symbols. Montreal: Readers Digest, 1996.
Chevalier, Jean and Gheerbrant, Alain. A Dictionary of Symbols. Cambridge, MA: Basil Blackwell Ltd., 1994.
Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius
Can others look up some names, the older the references the better.
December 25 was also the Day of Saturnalia, a celebration dedicated to the Chief god, Saturn, during which time there was much drinking, many banquets, and presents were exchanged.
When I worked in Saudi Arabia I was asked by an Arab "If Jesus was born on December 25th why do you celebrate 2000 years of Jesus birth on January 1st 2000? I still have no answer!
I have viewed the evidence in that film. And it concurs with what I have learned.
Aside from such minor issues as you can get a more accurate description of Egyptian mythology on any given Nile album (and Nile Rock, making it Nile 2 Zeitgeist 0 by my reckoning), I'd just like to see any evidence whatsoever that the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of Rome represented some dark new dawn of political control. This would need to explain why Julian the Apostate tried to swing it back to paganism (which wasn't a particularly popular move). _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
...historical evidence points to Constantine as the one who had the major share in uniting Sun-worship and the Messianic Belief. Constantine's famous vision of 'the cross superimposed on the sun", in the year 312, is usually cited. Writers, ignorant of the fact that the cross was not to be found in the New Testament Scriptures, put much emphasis on this vision as the onset of the so-called ' conversion' of Constantine". (Koster, pp. 30, 31).
IIRC, Constantine appears to have favoured (judging by what he put on his coins) Sol Invictus, 'the unconquered sun' (whose festival is Dec 25th which is where I thought that date came from as I thought it was generally accepted Jesus was not born on that day - I'm amazed Zeitgeist missed that out). Constantine did not overtly become a Christian for a while after the battle of Milvian(sp?) Bridge and I think it's a bit conjectural as to when he actually 'took the plunge' porior to going public. It has been argued he was veering towards monotheism and finally settled on Christianity. I'm not sure if (it's known at all) the cross he saw wasn't more the chi rho style of cross which was certainly around then. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject:
[quote="Newspeak International"]
Dogsmilk wrote:
Quote:
...historical evidence points to Constantine as the one who had the major share in uniting Sun-worship and the Messianic Belief. Constantine's famous vision of 'the cross superimposed on the sun", in the year 312, is usually cited. Writers, ignorant of the fact that the cross was not to be found in the New Testament Scriptures, put much emphasis on this vision as the onset of the so-called ' conversion' of Constantine". (Koster, pp. 30, 31).
IIRC, Constantine appears to have favoured (judging by what he put on his coins) Sol Invictus, 'the unconquered sun' (whose festival is Dec 25th which is where I thought that date came from as I thought it was generally accepted Jesus was not born on that day - I'm amazed Zeitgeist missed that out). Constantine did not overtly become a Christian for a while after the battle of Milvian(sp?) Bridge and I think it's a bit conjectural as to when he actually 'took the plunge' porior to going public. It has been argued he was veering towards monotheism and finally settled on Christianity. I'm not sure if (it's known at all) the cross he saw wasn't more the chi rho style of cross which was certainly around then.
...historical evidence points to Constantine as the one who had the major share in uniting Sun-worship and the Messianic Belief. Constantine's famous vision of 'the cross superimposed on the sun", in the year 312, is usually cited. Writers, ignorant of the fact that the cross was not to be found in the New Testament Scriptures, put much emphasis on this vision as the onset of the so-called ' conversion' of Constantine". (Koster, pp. 30, 31).
IIRC, Constantine appears to have favoured (judging by what he put on his coins) Sol Invictus, 'the unconquered sun' (whose festival is Dec 25th which is where I thought that date came from as I thought it was generally accepted Jesus was not born on that day - I'm amazed Zeitgeist missed that out). Constantine did not overtly become a Christian for a while after the battle of Milvian(sp?) Bridge and I think it's a bit conjectural as to when he actually 'took the plunge' porior to going public. It has been argued he was veering towards monotheism and finally settled on Christianity. I'm not sure if (it's known at all) the cross he saw wasn't more the chi rho style of cross which was certainly around then.
It is not generally accepted by Christians that the Dec 25th date is not the birth of Christ. They know it, but do not accept it. Or worse. Ignore the fact. Inconsistency of their doctrine matters not to these people. They are led by blind faith. Imagine if we as 9/11 truthers used that premise. We would not have go off square one. Tony Gosling. Could you furnish me the evidence that disproves evolution. And explain why, if there is only six thousand years since the creation of the earth. How does that explain fossils? The book of Job, tells of a creature called the Behemoth. That is only one reference to anything remotely like a dinosaur. We have been digging up dinosaur bones for many years now. Do you believe as Christians have said to me before. That the Devil crept down to Earth and put them there. Would you say that?If the Holy Spirit is sent to convict men's heart. A Holy Councilor. Why are there so many diversities in the same faith?
"And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span?
"If then you cannot do even a very little thing,
why are you anxious about other matters?
(Luke 12:25-26
God's promise to avenge on your behalf. He is the law. If you go by your teachings. Then you are in error of the word of God. This whole 9/11 fight should be left to God. This is what all Christians are taught. No exceptions! He will judge all. And he will meet out the punishment. You either trust in God. Or fail to do his will by taking on the fight. You can't do both. According to God's law that is. This is the kind of hypocrisy I came to know well in the church.
13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
By being in the 9/11 movement, you are flying in the face of God. Breaking his law. "Vengeance is mine", the Lord says. Trust in him first is the basic premise.
This is the Sun of Man (Mine)
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “Satan rules the world, but I shine on my followers. Whoever follows me will never suffer misfortune, but will always have good luck.”
—John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world; Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
—John 8:12
As we know, the sun is the light of all life. _________________ "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be alseep to believe it"
True Stelios. I firmly believe the Bible was written by man to control.The Bible does not even call God by his name. They give him a big "G" and that is good enough. And why have all the names in the Bible been changed to western style names. No one as ever questioned his fact. If a German man is called Fritz and he comes to England. He is still called Fritz.
JESHUA The True Hebrew Messiah (Isa. 9:6; Matt. 1:21,23)
So how do we get from YAHU'SHUAH the Messiah to Jesus. Why do we not still say YAHU'SHUAH. In Latin he is called Jesu.
God knows no other Saviour than Himself, "for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved", but the True Salvation Name of YAHU'SHUAH ("YHVH is Saviour") (Isa. 43:11; 45:21; 41:4; Acts 4:12).
I am Dave, you are Stelios no matter were we go. _________________ "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be alseep to believe it"
Names are unimportant. Whether your are John, or Johan, or Johannes, or Yahya. The name is the same. You cannot expect everyone to speak the same language? England is known as Angleterre in certain quarters does that make us any less English?
So David do you reject Darwins work of fiction as i reject it?
A novel written by a twisted man 150 years ago.
Might i remind you that Darwin himslef REJECTED his own works? Yes he says in his novel
Darwin's theory of evolution required that transitional forms exist. As Charles Darwin became older, however, he became increasingly concerned about this lack of evidence in regards to the fossil record. Darwin wrote, "“When we descend to details, we cannot prove that a single species has changed; nor can we prove that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the theory.”
Shall i repeat that. Darwin found NOT A SINGLE species was a transistional species.
More the case we have in our museums and universities over 100 million fossils. NONE of these is of a transisitional species not even 50/50 or 75/25 or even 99/01.
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The Bible has been written and re edited and the original meanings have been changed in many cases. But this is why you must ot allow PEOPLE to tell you what the Bible means. You must interpret it as you choose.
Our enemies in this world are people who have rejected the teachings of the prophets and the words of God and have formed their own manmade religions.
Marxism, Communism, Facism, Zionism, Humaism, Eugenics, Atheism, etc
So why should you believe the words of a man no matter how crooked over the words of good God believing people. Zeitgeist the movie is a load of cobblers. The fact that certain Christian festivals are in fact pagan festivals does not detract. You see there was atime when all men were pagans. They believed in the sun, trees, animals, etc. They used to paint themselves blue. But as man has become more knowledgeable the fact that there was a God and that there is an afterlife, was revealed to man and religion developed. Judaism, Bhuddhism, led to Christianity and Islam.
Symbolism and idol worship is forbidden in religion, so easter eggs and santa claus are NOTHING to do with religion. Harvest festival IS a pagan tradition, but what harm does it do?
What is more harmful is to folow the teachings of the manmade religions i have listed above. Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin were all followers of man made religions and the result was they murdered 100 million people. Atheism leads to chaos and makes humans into ferel beasts.
David please think in your heart of an example of a good Atheist. Living or dead. Public figure, political figure or celebrity. I am pretty sure you cant because i have asked this question many times, while there are hundreds of very cruel and evil atheists nobody has yet named a good one. If you can come up with an atheist version of Mother Teresa or Cat Stevens then i will shut my gob. _________________
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Our enemies in this world are people who have rejected the teachings of the prophets and the words of God and have formed their own manmade religions.
Marxism, Communism, Facism, Zionism, Humaism, Eugenics, Atheism, etc
Don't forget Pastafarianism!!! That wasn't man made - it was made by his almighty squigglyness.
Blackcat back with those one liners. I bet there will be a few expletives this Saturday from you. I will be definately asking you if Roy Keane is really Mick McCarthy in disguise.
By the way have you not considered that Rastafarian members of 911 and 7/7 truth might be a little offended of your humourous use of their religion. Do not forget they first exposed the ruling class such as George Bush and Tony Blair who are follows of the Babylonian deity Molech, so i would suggest you use a different punchline in future. Your current joke though hardly a side splitter has definately lost it's punch.
I forgot to say atheists, do you really want this Dawkins ashole to be your leader? I saw him on dispatches once and the interviewer had him tied up in knots. Bill Gates wants to reduce the world's population to 500 million. Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, UNESCO sterilising third world people so the world population reduces. Most world leaders are atheists and i am sure none of you agree with wanting a genetically engineered world of a ruling class, a worker class and an under class. So please tell me what is so good about the aims of atheism?
atheism does not want to improve mankind or the planet. Atheism wants to make us into efficient workers like in China working for peanuts like virtual bonded labour. Atheism is good for the zionists and the rulers of this world because it makes them top dogs. I answer to God alone. Atheists answer to Bill Gates and Jacob Rothschild. _________________
Blackcat back with those one liners. I bet there will be a few expletives this Saturday from you. I will be definately asking you if Roy Keane is really Mick McCarthy in disguise.
We will see.
Quote:
By the way have you not considered that Rastafarian members of 911 and 7/7 truth might be a little offended of your humourous use of their religion. ........ i would suggest you use a different punchline in future. Your current joke though hardly a side splitter has definately lost it's punch.
It is no funnier than believing in the nonsense that mainstream religions expect you to believe. At least I know it is all a joke! If you insist on expecting me to take Islam or Christianity seriously then I expect you to take Pastafarianism seriously. So in future do not call me an atheist - I am a Pastafarian. My God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is every bid as valid a piece of drivel as is yours. That is the point.
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I forgot to say atheists, do you really want this Dawkins ashole to be your leader?
I doubt that atheists have a leader since they are not an organisation and have no agenda. You are confusing them with brainwashed from birth mainstream religious nuts who are too dumb to raise themselves out of the mire.
Quote:
Most world leaders are atheists and i am sure none of you agree with wanting a genetically engineered world of a ruling class, a worker class and an under class. So please tell me what is so good about the aims of atheism?
Bush and Blair are both Christians and make a big show of their religious piety and devotion to Christianity. You of course neatly sidestep this fact by simply ignoring that reality, and especially by ignoring the fact that millions of American Christians vote for Bush because of his avowed Christianity. Blair is the same. Even if they are acting (why aren't atheist leaders just acting?) you still do not explain the devotion millions of Christians show towards them. Are they just thick peasants again who do not have any real understanding of religion?
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atheism does not want to improve mankind or the planet.
Correct - it is not an organization and has no agenda. It is not a movement. You are getting there Stelios!!
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Atheism wants to make us into efficient workers like in China working for peanuts like virtual bonded labour.
So wherever there has been a mainstream religion there has automatically been decency and fairness in the workplace? I wonder why there are so many sweatshops in India then. Why did all those people die in Victorian UK fighting the government to get basic safety and decent wages and hours and conditions.
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Atheism is good for the zionists
Lack of religion is good for those who wish to establish a religious state?
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I answer to God alone. Atheists answer to Bill Gates and Jacob Rothschild.
Sadly we all answer to those in power whether it is the police or the wealthy who control them. If you believe you are different then that is the hypnotic delusion that your religion imposes on you.
I am still waiting to hear examples of good publically known atheists or cant anyone think of any.
You are wasting your time. You may as well ask for "good" scrabble players. Atheists do not proclaim to have any answer to life's problems so do not seek recruits. Compare that with religious nuts who are forever shouting from the rooftops that we had better listen to them and join them or else. You cannot even see that Communism and Fascism are the belief systems that those tyrants you mention followed. They murdered millions in the name of those belief systems not in the name of atheism. The overwhelming majority of atheists abhor such systems as much as they abhor religion. There is in fact little difference between Fascism, Communism and any Religion, so it would be pointless for a true atheist to join any of them.
Anyway, as soon as you are given examples of odious religious tyrants you just say they don't belong really. Bush and Blair being the latest examples of Christian warmongering monsters.
Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth
http://mujca.com/stopthenext911.htm
Kevin Barrett has taught English, French, Arabic, American Civilization, Humanities, African Literature, Folklore, and Islam at colleges and universities in the San Francisco Bay area, Paris, and Madison, Wisconsin. He grew up in a family of lapsed Unitarians (which is about as lapsed as it gets) and reverted to Islam in 1993, a move that gradually impressed upon him the gravity of the moral choices we make in this life. Barrett’s dissertation is on Islam and Moroccan legend. He is also the author and illustrator of the cult classic A Guide to Mysterious San Francisco, published under the pseudonym of “Dr. Weirde.” (He begs Allah’s forgiveness for that slightly twisted book.) Barrett became a 9/11 truth activist in 2004 after reading David Griffin’s The New Pearl Harbor and conducting follow-up research that convinced him Griffin had accurately summarized evidence indicating 9/11 was an inside job. In the summer of 2004 he founded 9/11 Truth Squad, a local group based in Madison, Wisconsin. In July, he rashly rejected a plum post-doc at the University of California because it was funded by the 9/11-disinformation-sponsoring CIA-linked Ford Foundation. Barrett has led several 9/11 Truth Teach-Ins at the University of Wisconsin, including a 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. Truth Marathon on the third anniversary of the attacks. As of January 2005, he has made six guest appearances on local radio and television to discuss 9/11 truth. He is currently working on university research projects, writing and editing for the Muslim magazine al-Jumuah, and spearheading MUJCA-NET.
And here's the latest from Last Trumpet Ministries
Quote:
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/ltn/index.html
In this issue of the Last Trumpet Newsletter, we will use the Scripture and our God-given discernment to examine the workings of a dark force that is now in its final stages of transforming America and the rest of the world into a new age of antichrist dominance. This sinister and clandestine force is so deceptive that nearly all of humanity accepts it. What has happened to our nation of the United States of America? Clearly, it is not the nation it once was! What has happened to the way people think? Who are we, and what have we become? Has humanity and the society of the last days become the product of a strange force operating within secret societies? Has this force been cleverly and gradually manifested through our religions, schools, and universities?
........
Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 179 Location: Manchester
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject:
It is very fascinating exploring astro-theology. I have been currently looking at about it here. It is in-depth, but also fun with groovy little animations, etc, and audio. There is an audio of a passage from a Shakespeare Play where the orator is voicing his fear and disdain of the DARKNESS. For as you may know and this site will tell you so, Darkness has held our ancestors in awe, and fear and dread, and it always precedes the appearance/birth of Light
So for example, in the patriarchy Darkness has been greatly feared, AND equated even with dark skin, and Nature and woman. All connected with Darkness.
Whereas the Goddess religion held Darkness as sacred and inseparable with Light, NOT as the patriarchs would mythologize it as being Satan/Devil and in conflict with Light --checkout site here http://members.cox.net/deleyd/index.htm
The conceptualizing human mind huh?
That will abstract out 'things' like 'light' and 'dark' and then having abstracted them believe 'them' to be in conflict
So is the concepttualizing mind wrong, evil?
We ARE animals. Some call us thinking animals. But this presumes other animals don't think doesn't it. But what we tend to do with our brains is beable to analyze past and plan future. All this is conceptualisation. And that is a useful tool. But................when this function of the mind analytically divides up natrual dynamic cyclic processes, and then believes one part/mainfestation of the process is in struggle with another manifestation of same process is when is clear that conceptualization has become ir-rational!
Why would that happen??
I am thinking it happens from the over-USE of rational-ality...! When that function doesn't know when to cease cutting up reality/analysing, and is unconscious of it doing so, and takes its analytical perspective as reality
So the resolving of this irrationality is ecstasy!
Ie., is the voluntary embrace of NON-rationality. Not irrationality, mind. But the REAL meaning of religion which is the experiencing of the sacred by ingesting sacred substances. And then having had ecstatic experience for this to resolve tendencies that could be seen to be verging on the rigid.
A loosening of rigidity, which is over-use of conceptualization. _________________ keep asking questions!
I am still waiting to hear examples of good publically known atheists or cant anyone think of any.
One that springs to mind is Carl Sagan
Sagan wrote frequently about religion and the relationship between religion and science, expressing his skepticism about many conventional conceptualizations of God. Sagan once stated, for instance, that "The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."
I am still waiting to hear examples of good publically known atheists or cant anyone think of any.
You will have to be a trifle more specific, from a human perspective good and bad are based upon perspective. Although not an athiest, Adolf Hitler was adored by many of his followers and seen as a great human being, however if you were British around 1943, this wouldn't have been the case.
What exactly constitutes 'good'? Bear in mind, you are asking a range of people for their definitions, many of whom will not be basing that view on any set of documented guidelines or rules laid down by legislative procedure or any omnipotent being.
I am more prone to list the astonishingly long list of ‘bad’ Christians.
I struggle with the concept of ‘knowing’ who or what created the universe. We are microscopic creatures swarming on the surface of a cooling speck of dust hanging in a vacuum. I find the concept that anyone can state they are certain there is a God as being the height of conceit. We create images in our heads of this or that and they become our individual ‘realities’, yet not one of those is realer than any other.
I have no clue what created the universe or why? This does not preclude there is no God, just there is no way whatsoever to prove that one exists.
To conclude; I have nothing against Christians, I perceive them very like smokers - as long as they do it behind closed doors. Jesus apparently led by example and didn't set up shop in the middle of a busy shopping area with a bullhorn. This type of in-your-face bullying tactic is unwelcome and invasive. I always make a point of stopping, taking their lealets and entering into debate. One recently attempted to hit me after about 40 minutes which was most enlightening for the rest of his entourage.
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Please think in your heart of an example of a good Atheist. Living or dead. Public figure, political figure or celebrity. I am pretty sure you cant because i have asked this question many times, while there are hundreds of very cruel and evil atheists nobody has yet named a good one.
Stelios, why don't you try looking on the internet for 2 seonds and educating yourself before coming out with nonsense like this. Try wikipedia for a start.
Please think in your heart of an example of a good Atheist. Living or dead. Public figure, political figure or celebrity. I am pretty sure you cant because i have asked this question many times, while there are hundreds of very cruel and evil atheists nobody has yet named a good one.
Stelios, why don't you try looking on the internet for 2 seonds and educating yourself before coming out with nonsense like this. Try wikipedia for a start.
NONSENSE you call it?
I looked at your list. As i suggest everyone should do.
It includes:
Enver Hoxha: (1908–1985): Communist ruler of Albania noted for implementing state atheism
Alexander Lukashenko (1954—): President of Belarus
Joseph Stalin (1879–1953): Soviet head of state.
Please before you post up such a list i did actually ask for examples of GOOD atheists as in kind, considerate, charitable, humanitarian.
I did not mean GOOD as in DEVOUT atheists.
Im sorry if you misunderstood me.
So can anyone please give me an example of a GOOD atheist in the same mould of Mother Teresa or Cat Stevens. _________________
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