Computer video games, what do they teach us?

[marky 54]

before i found out about 9/11 i was a mean gamer, i use to spend time playing online, in the last so many years however i soon realised that computer games can be used to ferther the agenda just as much as tv/radio/internet etc.

i don't play as much now and certainly do not play online, but what are our children and youth exposed to in these games, are there any examples you've seen in games that can effect behaviour or examples of games taking advantage inorder recruit or influence people?

how about this game? a shoot em up called prey
http://www.prey.com/flash.html

aliens come down and take a character named tommy and his father and girlfriend, they are loaded onto a ship where it becomes obvious people are being used as meat for another race of aliens.

tommy escapes and then has to save his family, as he runs around the space craft the story unfolds that aliens created humans on a dead rock and created earth to support organic life, orangic life they could then use as food at a later time.

so heres a mind imprint of alien attacks that many think will be used as a psy-op in the future with a staged alien attack.

theres more on the opening level and in some places aboard the alien craft there are posters saying "the U.S army wants you". theres nothing wrong with recruiting but why are games being used to do this, games where overkill is often needed to advance through levels of blood and gore and where you never die is being accosiated with posters of the "U.S army wants you" now if there was ever a false impression of army life and invasion of your privacy inorder to recruit there it is.

the other worrying thing about the game is your girlfriend ends up getting injured and asks you to finish her, you cannot leave her to die naturally or help her or save her in any way, the only way to advance in the game is to finish her of yourself. making it seem more humane to kill in cold blood than to save her by other means, and all this is associated with "the U.S army wants you".

i find it scarey games like this are becoming the recruiting grounds of future soilders, where any humane feelings are taken out of the killing and justify's finishing people of as oppose to trying to save them.

its seems killing for what ever course good or evil is just being turned into a computer game.

i came across this game by accident, a friend bought it and asked if i wanted it because they could'nt control it etc, so i tried it out and was disgusted to find a game like this with recruitment posters in it.

[marky 54]

as for online games they can have a very big effect on behaviour, and maybe even designed to do so, i find this video exagerates it all a bit but it is what children are exposed to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjEB5Bx2yaA&mode=related&search=

heres another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAQSkw_rj8w

im sorry if anyone thinks this is unrelated in any way, but as a gamer and one who has experianced aggresive feelings or recieved aggresive behaviour whilst playing things like this, i can say hand on heart these things do have an effect on society but are also used as a form of control through addiction, to influence people and thus helps to brake down society and incourage certain behaviour.

it takes over lives and sets a example of how to treat others in the real world. but can also be used to influence a certain way of thinking.

on the upside can be used to spread the word, if you don't get banned for it, but i have not played one since finding out about 9/11 so would not know.

overall though they can influence our children without us even being aware of what they are exposed to.

[TonyGosling]

Well done for an interesting critique and insight into what is for me another world - I did play sim city back in 2001 for several hours and it left me feeling extremely weird - empty - most disturbing - I heard that author Iain Banks spent weeks playing the gameand missed a book deadline as a result. Addictive.

It's a bit like the queen's obsession with jigsaws. Its really a metaphor for what she should be doing. Like so many video games are about power of one sort or another - a surrogate power that cons our senses into relinquishing REAL power and by conditioning us into thinking that power is something that comes through aggression and force rather than - dare I say it - from above.

It does seem that almost the entire entertainment industry is geared around the military industrial complex agenda.

Which is why its not very entertaining

[marky 54]

i just rechecked the game the exact words on the poster in prey is, i want you for U.S army(in bold) nearest recruitment office(small letters underneath). its the picture of the guy pointing his finger in a big U.S flag top hat.

i should point out the game is 18 rated, but i still find it is shocking that games such as these are being used to recruit people for the reasons i state above. if soliders run around thinking its just a game then where does the humane side of things kick in? obviously shooting before thinking will be the norm if our soliders in what ever country are raised on shoot em up's. these games should not be associated with real war in anyway. but it gives us an insight into what mentailty armys are looking for.

[marky 54]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYQ3b8EOMF0&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH6UrvjDlsM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsfFZ4Wtqs&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4G9QL89KjI&mode=related&search=

disturbing, very disturbing, believe it or not some are wearing head sets and are actually talking this way to other players online as well as cursing at the game and if a kid did'nt talk to people this way whilst playing, there is no gaurentee he/she will not hear others talking that way and maybe even be directing it at your child.

i think im starting to see why kids are so disrespectfull these days and where their anger is coming from.

take note of the last clip near the end, the kid talks to his mother as though hes talking to one of his little buddies on the otherside of his headset and leaves the room angry as oppose to walking in seeming ok.

just thought i'd share it with everyone as its something ive been looking at recently as one of things that explains todays youth and culture we are currently experiancing in the uk. ive made my mind up lol, my kids go no where near a online game and there will be very strict measures on playtimes if at all and only while im there.

the gaming culture has a very bad side to it that we don't see promoted when they are urging people to buy the latest console.

[marky 54]

sorry to keep adding but if you read all the information it soon becomes obvious game addiction is destructive and is doing more than any elite to destroy society regardless of if its a part of a plan or not. hence the reason i think people should take this issue seriously and reconise it as a problem for all of us and the world we live in.

heres a few more articles.

http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2001/12/48479


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19354827/

and a webpage for getting help if you suffer from or know anyone who knows someone suffering from game addiction. theres a nation of zombies out there and its time to wake them up i think, especially the kids they are the future, its also time to educate people of the dangers.

http://www.olganonboard.org/

[TmcMistress]

Orrrr.... you could just be reading too much into Mario.

Now, I'll agree with you on Superman 64, that game was obviously designed to render large sections of the population into drooling vegetables...

But really, don't you think you're seeing shadows where there's just nerds who need to learn to manage their time better?


(note: I say 'nerds' in full recognition of my own nerdy status. I luv the anime and the video games. I just give them their proper place. Which is not all day and not in lieu of a shower or two.)

[Dogsmilk]

[John White]

Computer games are an Art form:

Sometimes art is *, sometimes its sublime, but always it is both a mirror and a model of our own subconcious

And like all Art, the system likes to get it's hooks into it if it can: certainly some games have been developed in tandem with the military, or various corporate interests: often a game is designed to provide a brand upon which a corporate empire can be launched

And yet ultimately to be worried about whether computer games can influence people in unacceptable ways, is the exact same agrument applied vigerously in the past to films, paintings, statuary and of course Books: and I'm definately for keeping all of them!

[Louise]

I'm a gamer myself Marky54.

I don't play online though.

I like sports games and first person shooters the most.

I have the game Prey and I just really enjoy playing them.

Although very violent games like manhunt whitch is banned (but i've still played it) should not be played by anyone under the age of 18 because it is very violent and bloody and could effect the behaviour of younger children.

In fact manhunt i used to play when someone upset me or wound me up somewhat, i would strangle one of the people in that game with a baseball bat and pretend it was the person that just wound me up.

But older people who play these type of games should be able to tell the difference between a computer game and reality.

But this is something that younger children however might get a bit mixed up.

All in all i find computer games great fun, although i do take my sports games very seriously such as:

World Chamionship snooker 2005
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007
Brian Lara Cricket 2005
and of course FIFA 07.

Infact i find my sports games that i have more hard work than fun and oftern find when i finish i'm sweating and tired.

But i hope you enjoy you gaming Marky54 if you do it anymore.

[Dogsmilk]

Oh yeah - I just thought of that ancient classic deus ex - Majestic 12, the illuminati and a choice of three different endings depending on how you wanted the world to turn out. They don't make 'em like that any more. Shame the sequel was nonsense.

[Easy Rider]

check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=houLTIkzhFs

[Louise]

Hi Dogsmilk

I have a load of old computer games myself, but they won't run on my up to date computer.

So that's way it's always best to have a second older computer as well so you can still play all those old games if you want to and move to your more powerfull one for all the latest games you want to play.

I think that its games with their ever incresing demands on system resources that has made the people who make the computer hardware advance and progress in technology because i don't think that business applications push computer hardware and resources any near the level that games do.

[Dogsmilk]

[Disco_Destroyer]

OMG here we go I in the words of the Young Ones must be a 'Homicidal Axe wielding Maniac' what with the music I listern to and love of violent online games
I don't know what games you play but most online games are based on team play, capture and hold goals such as Flags etc I don't know how that could add anything to further the agenda. I however was discusted at the release of Americas Army, no link required as it requires no support. This is the only intelligence released game to my knowledge! Infact games like Halflife and Chaser go a long way into the reals of conspiracy and impending Tyranny!

[Louise]

My first computer was a sinclair ZX81 with a 16k ram pack, i coudn't do much in the way of playing games on that, there were a few basic games avalible for it but as you can imagine they wern't very good.

From there i moved on to a Sinclair Spectrum 48K, the rubber key type.

Then it was The Spectrum + (128K) and then the Spectrum + 2 with the datacorder attached to it.

I have (and still have) all my Spectrums and over 1000 games for it.

I haven't used them for years and they have been lying redundant (along with the games) for a very long time, but i'm sure that they are all still fully operational.

The most frustrating thing about the spectrum was when you were loading in a game from tape you'd wait for it to load for about 5 mins or more, then sometimes you'd get that horrible message:

"R tape loading error"

And you'd have to start all over again.

One of my favorite games on the spectrum was called Dungeon Master, it was a multi load type adventure game.

From the Spectrums i went on to the Commodore 64, this had much more superior graphics and sound than the Spectrum.

But i didn't buy as many games for the Commodore 64 as i did the Spectrum but two games i liked for the Commodore 64 are:

Little Computer People and
Labyrinth

I never touched the Amiga or the Atari ST, not because i didn't like them, i just didn't have the money to get one.

I then moved onto my first PC, that was an Amstrad PC1640 Duel Drive with a CGA Monitor (capable of displaying an amazing 4 colours out of a choice of 16).

Then a 486, then a Pentium 1 and so on.

Also i have owned 3 different games consoles:

Atari VCS2600
Colecovision
Intellivision

Becoming a qualified PC engineer ment that i was able to built my own computer whenever i wanted a more powerful one, i just had to have the money to get all the parts.

But building you own computer is much cheaper than buying a ready built one from somewhere like PC World, and you get to decide what goes into it yourself.

And as long as you pay attention to quality you get a really good feeling when you have finished the computer and it's all up and running.

So there you have it, a history of all my gaming computers.

My latest computer that i built myself is a Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz, with 2GB of RAM and SATA hard drives.

The Graphics card is a Nvidia Geforce 7600GS PCIE with 512MB of RAM.

Also just breifly changing the subject, i sure am glad to get out of critics corner and trying to convince people like Bushwacker that 9/11 was an inside job, it was doing my head in.

Perhaps i would find getting blood out of a stone an easyer job.

Sorry to change the subject breifly.

[marky 54]

i aint suggesting getting rid of games, where did i say such a thing?

im pointing out the effect they can have on people, obviously if your sensible they are fine, but pointing out how they can be used to influence people or promote agendas and invade privacy and the fact they are like drugs and many kids and adults are addicted, and many destroy their lives due to them.

people can down play the effects all they like, but the fact is we have generations raised on this stuff and im trying to give some insight into explaining why things are getting bad other than just blaming elites for everything. some things are our responsibility that we can do things about.

you want to know why todays youth are getting destructive and angry?
you want to know why not enough are taking notice about whats happening in the world today?

also from a parents point of view this information is essential, and raising the issue of what they teach us or our children is essential also.

because their will come a point for addicts where the games have a greater influence over their lives than their parents or any one around them does. the games become their lives and drives people to suicide or losing everything as well as cause depression.

if i was talking about a drug that caused depression etc it would be accepted if i was saying they are putting stuff in the water supply to dumb us down it would be accepted, why you get a differant response to showing there are other things having the same effects is puzzling.

maybe people are just defending the things they like to do, i love games also but can see the effect they have on people also, and i certainly will not let my kids near them unless im present to monitor their behaviour, and ill certainly be checking every game they touch before i allow them on them.

people need to become more aware of the dangers other than the epilepsy warning.

[Louise]

I think that's what's called being a good responsible parent Marky54.

Just to make sure that your children are not playing any games that are ment for adults (18 type games) etc.

Some games are definately not for children like the more violent bloody ones.

I definately woudn't let a child near Manhunt for example, but to ban it outright prevents adults from enjoying it, so i don't think that that's quite right.

I think that it is very good that you are so resonsible with your children Marky54 and make sure that they are playing the right sort of games for their age.

[eogz]

I play console games.......

Every now and again.

I actually enjoy them but tend to gravitate towards first person shooters such as Call of Duty3 on the 360.

My son, 14 likes to play console games, but not all the time.

My concerns about them are:

They desensitise young and old people to the act of killing or violence, if there is a negative result of them, it is this. I feel, especially as graphics become more life like and the games more real that de-sensitisation is the goal rather than planning to turn nations into gaming zombies.

Gaming is fun but it can also place us in a highly suggestiuble state, like TV and evangelists! So use is the issue here and how long should they be played for.

I try to limit myself to an hour every now and again (not daily) but relax these rules with my son, fortunately he has attention deficiencies so can't do much more than my limit!

I did read somewhere that recent games like full spectrum warrior and lots of other first person shooter, team shooter and tactical war games were originally developed by the military, please correct if i'm wrong.

So we could be developing nations of sub-conciously trained soldiers, a little more desensitised to killing than most, but who remain spotty and pasty coloured.

Considering the growing use of robotic/rc weapons then a nation of tactically trained soldiers, proficient with games and simulations, who are desensitised to gross violence may actually be the army of the future.

[marky 54]

its not just about 18 rated games or children,

to begin with any adult that is addicted spends less time with their family and becomes withdrawn from everything around them, the new life is the game and the game is all that matters, children, wifes and husbands get ignored as a result of addiction the family brakes down as the addiction takes over peoples lives, it destroys familys and thus destroys society.

online games are the worse for this as you can make online friends become a part of a guild which for some ends up being the supplement for the family, people get attached and so emersed in it all that when people leave the game or guilds disband they become depressed, and sometimes are driven to suicide, check the link to the news report as a example in my second post on the thread.

theres also another side to online games, and that is enemys, ive experianced this part myself whilst playing, some say they help with team work etc, but they are ignoreing the negitive side also, the side where players will be abusive and hassle other people and act in a way that in real life would be only be considered as evil, so it promotes this side in people also.

remeber for every adult addicted is a potential child who has lost their mother or fathers attention it effects everyone and society as a whole, if a parent is addicted are they concerned about what their children are up to or just glad to have them out the way so they can get more game time?

the danger is gaming is becoming reality for most but the real reality is neglected, its no differant to kids being left at home while the parents are down the pub all day in some cases, and its getting worse with more and more online games growing and being released.

it may sound like nothing but it goes a long way to explaining the problems in society today.

how does a child cope with online games, when they can have a great effect on adults who know what their responsibilities are, but give them up for more gaming hours. how many children throw their lives away in the same way before even getting grands from school? how many skip school, leave homework, etc etc just to get more gaming hours.

its a drug, and is destructive in the same way drugs are on peoples lives.

[eogz]

Do you not think though that so many things are addictive in life

Drugs
Alcochol
Smoking
Gamnbling
Sex
Shopping
Gaming
TV
Eating
911 Forums (sorry bad taste joke)

Aside from those that are obviously dangerous and detrimental to your health, everything else has to be carried out responsibly, when these activities are carried out to excess thay create similar problems.

As parents we have a reponsibility to limit our children's exposure to all off the above and completely the above 3 (and sex too!), we teach them through example and guidance.

Those peolle that become addicted to activities usually do so because something is lacking or missing from their lives, a deep roooted issue or a destructive personality (mine has to be kept in check (gambling addict at 20 yrs old)).

I do worry about the issues around Gaming, but do feel as far as young people are concerned that a sensible adult approach to all things helps develop sensible adults.

[marky 54]

[marky 54]

[eogz]

I would definately agree with you there.

[Cruise4]

Whatever manipulatory/programming/conditioning you imagine Computer Games have.... times by 1000 and you will be near to the true potential.

Same as TV.

[TmcMistress]

[Disco_Destroyer]

[marky 54]

i don't disagree with the issues you raise having an effect on top of everything else, but i think i provided enough information and examples on behaviour to prove games do also have an effect or can be as addictive as drugs.

people don't usually just buy a game then sit the rest of there lives of in a room, for many its a gradual process, they play a few hours and then it turns into to 4 then 8 and so on before they know it they are addicted, and it is happening to kids all over the place as well as adults, also people start of playing for fun but then find they are more powerful in the fake reality and it strokes their heroic hero ego side, as their life brakes down through addiction, yes i agree it causes depression.

and is adding to the problems and break down of society and familys, hence the warning and debate as im certain some games are made by design to feed addiction, or to influence a certain type of behaviour.

but lets be clear, i'm not saying all games do this or are bad for it, although any game can be addictive if you like it enough but some are just addictive by design and IMO purposely being made to do this aswell as pleasing peoples needs in the game to keep them hooked, friends,family earning an income in a real ecomony etc etc whilst being a powerful alter ego who can own a house, horse, pets etc etc, like i said online games are the worse and increasing and becoming reality for a lot of people and i mean alot.

all im trying to do is warn people to at least save a few people from the destructive side of gaming and not to fall into the same trap.

[Louise]

TmcMistress wrote:

"That's what SCUMM VM is for, Louise. Old LucasArts games are the only old ones worth playing, anyway. Huzzah, Full Throttle!"

What's SCUMM VM TmcMistress? , i've never heard of it.

Does it allow you to play older games on Modern computers?.

How about DOS based games?.

Yes i agree Old LucasArts games are very good.

I'd like to play Wing Commander 4 the price of freedom again.

A briliant game, and a brilliant story.

Following sort of the same line as 9/11.

Corrupt leaders following a waped, twisted, evil agenda of murder and crateing false situations which is blamed on people that are innocent to start a war with them, and this benefits them into accomplishing their agendas and goals whitch (as you find out as you get near the end of the game) is really sick.

If i went into the full story of the game here it would take too long to explain it here, but i could start a seprate thread and explain it if people want, it really is brilliant.

In fact the quote in that game really fits what we are doing with 9/11 truth as well and that is:

"The price of freedom, is eternal vigilance"

Very fitting to the 9/11 truth movement i think.

[eogz]

Did anyone ever watch Red Dwarf or read the books?

Remember Better Than Life.

Wonder how many years we are from that?

I'm not saying all these games are evil, just the love of them. Kind of like money I suppose.

If I really wanted to seperate myself from the control mechanisms I probably wouldn't have any technology in my home, as well as being used for nefarious purposes these things can be used to educate.

Problem is when you suggest this stuff to people they look at you like you suggested the Sun (Solar object not the newspaper) doesn't really exist. How many people really check on their children's and their own use of these things?