Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: Richard Dawkins - Enemies of Reason
Did anyone see this on Ch4 last night (Aug 13?) I was watching it and then a friend of mine phoned, so I had to turn the telly down - but I could see he was talking about 9/11 and presumably saying that alternative theories to the official explanation are irrational and superstitious.
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Richard Dawkins - Enemies of Reason
jomper wrote:
Did anyone see this on Ch4 last night (Aug 13?) I was watching it and then a friend of mine phoned, so I had to turn the telly down - but I could see he was talking about 9/11 and presumably saying that alternative theories to the official explanation are irrational and superstitious.
If he did indeed say this then that makes Dawkins an 'enemy of reason'. This sounds like good news for God ?
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:37 am Post subject:
Dawkin's Ego will be his downfall: the backlash is inevitable
His idea of "reason" is oh so obviously "all genuine people should think just like me or be controlled for their own good" _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Dawk is the standard bearer of the atheist movement but like many establishment figures he is not a truth teller. His views on 911 are wll documented and this proves his aims are exactly the same as those of all the other illuminati and new world order people.
I am surprised that so many on this website chose him as there example of a good person because his views on 911 are opposite to most on this site. Dawk is a cult leader who has formed his own religion and installed himself as the leader of his cult. Like communism, zionism, atheism is a control system with it's own doctrines and rules.
Dawk is an example of the rampant evil in the world today and his views must be rejected in there totality. _________________
I don't have a TV so I am only commenting on what I've read here.
Premise:
DAWKins is obsessed with the religious issues arising from 9/11 and those issues being the cause of 9/11. This is rather than 9/11 as being a FALSE FLAG attack, or anything other than what is presented in the official conspiracy theory. Basically for a scientist he is so far up his own back passage, that he can't see the wood for the trees.
So my conclusion, not having watched TV in over 1 year, and only from reading what people have written here is that:
Conclusion:
DAWKins via his obsessions with religion perpetuates the myth that 9/11 was carried out by 19 Muslim hijackers, and it's an evil Muslim thing, which basically then extrapolates to evil, religion and god, and sales for his books the God Delusion, The Selfish Gene, The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable (have I missed any???…)
Comment:
As a scientist, someone who should be inquisitive and question everything DAWKins fails to see that some of his 19 evil, Muslim, god obsessed religious fanatics have been found alive (a miracle from above I dare say?), and some who had magical passports (maybe touched by the hand of god) that could survive blazing infernos and fall conveniently to the ground etc.
For a scientist he fails to see the poor logical reasoning behind everything to do with 9/11. From the millions of dead muslims, to the physics of 9/11 itself.
One example being, the mastermind of this plot, who was a guy on a dialysis machine living in a cave. As a biologist DAWKins should understand the implications of renal failure & dialysis. Or maybe he's so far "evolved" on evolution, god, and genes he's forgotten the big picture like how a kidney works and what its function is, and why someone who hangs out with Fred Flintsone in a cave really can't survive being in renal failure, for long as a viable god fearing biological entity.
Isn't Dawkin a 'pretty big shout' in the stop the war coalition? Maybe he's a bit like GGGalloway swept along in the funamentalist Zelikow 911 gospel
tide just like the majority of religeous zealots, a victim of the prevailing culture, but unlike Galloway he is yet to enter the 9/11 'age of reason'.
Yup - this Dawkins in line with many other scientists seeks to suck the meaning out of life and make it worthless, like so many of the journos in the so-called liberal press
This basic meaningless and randomless of life sets up a background where the taking of life in the thousands and the imprisoning of life in so many like - becomes meaningless in a world of plenty and scarcity.
Dawkins provides the worst kind of religion the world has ever seen.
Corrupt, meaningless and empty _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
I'm sorry Stelios, dh: I disagree - there's nothing wrong with a bit of atheism, you know. It's a perfectly acceptable perspective on life and it doesn't mean you're not human.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:22 am Post subject:
jomper wrote:
I'm sorry Stelios, dh: I disagree - there's nothing wrong with a bit of atheism, you know. It's a perfectly acceptable perspective on life and it doesn't mean you're not human.
I'm cool with athiesm: but I'm in no way an athiest
I suppose I kind of feel awareness of God is like a sense.. like smell... try and describe using words what it feels like to be able to smell to someone who never has, or did so long ago they have lost awareness of what it is like
Its not a problem, just diversity: and adaption
God's not troubled by athiests and athiests should have no cause to be troubled by god
The problem with Dawkins is he doesn't know what hes looking at:
He's looking at the works of man (religion and what is done in its name) and thinks that to be looking at the work of God
It isnt, its the work of Man and his varying levels of harmony/disharmony with God: it is a testament to mans imperfect comminication with God and how much man leads hismelf astray
But it doesn't matter:
All any of us need to aim to do is to do our best with this life, NOW _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
Richard Dawkins has made some good points in his time, especially about the dangers of religious bigtry and superstitious dogma, based on scripture rather than spiritual experiences. But he's completely lost it here! He's saying that science and reason are not just away to see the world, they are the only way to see the world.
Science did a good thing, freeing the world of dogmatic funadamentalism (as I said in my previous post, a few centuries ago you could kill someone and not face a murder charge if your victim had been excommunicated). I also don't dispute the benefits of technology. But the problem is that the rise of materialistic science has also taken something away from us, a feeling of spirituality. Most people instinctively feel this loss. A few don't mind, like Dawkins, who tries to brand everyone who does as backward and deluded! Most people do feel this however, I think. I certainly do. This is why many people, including myself, have gone on a search to find this lost part of ourselves and the universe. It's not because we're backward or deluded; it's because we know that there's a place for spirituality in our own lives and the world. It used to exist before dogmatic religion came along and destroyed it, by burning witches and "evil pagans" etc. We want to find it again. We know it exists, we just can't see it yet!
Can't we have a society which embraces best of both worlds: the benefits of science and reason, but also intuition, spirituality, the divine? Are the two really incompatible? I think not and I'm not alone. One of Dawkins' own Oxford colleagues has challenged him. Here you can see the two of them wrangling in a rough cut outtake from Dawkins' last TV series:
For some reason this didn't make the broadcast cut.
McGrath has cahallenged Dawkins to a live debate at the Union, but so far Dawky hasn't taken him up on it! _________________ "Lynda, you're sweet. From what I've seen of your world, do you think anybody votes for sweet?"
Doctor Who- Bad Wolf
"Because he refused to compete in games of domination he was indomitable"
from The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin
Blackcat you must agree with me that Dawk has simply created his own cult? And those who follow his new man made religion should annount themselves as dawks. _________________
Stelios, Dawkins is an atheist. He's not religious and hasn't created a religious cult. That's because he doesn't believe in god(s). That what being an atheist means.
I disagree, i believe he IS religious and has simply developed his own religion.
what do you think about his t-shirts with a big A for atheist on the front?
_________________
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject:
Maybe Dawkins should take a leaf out of his own book and use the science that is his "be all and end all",and apply it to the "official theory" of freefall "collapses" on 9/11.
I certainly agree with that point, Newspeak. A powerfully rational mind like his really should look at those collapse times.
Stelios, t-shirts do not make a religion. There is not a single word of his that I've read that suggests he's created a religion of his own. I assume you mean that you think he's dogmatic, but he's only dogmatic in his attacks on superstitious, irrational beliefs, like the belief in god(s).
Well lets not argue about his attacks on religion.
Lets look at what he himself preaches.
Charles Darwin's fictional novel has been thoroughly debunked and disproven not least by the elderly Charles Darwin himself.
Dawk is a preacher
Richard Dawkins wrote:
Those who don't believe in evolution are ignorant or brainwashed
Darwin realized that natural selection produces cruel results. He looked at predators and prey, parasites and hosts, and saw how there is an immense amount of suffering and cruelty out there in nature. He also realized that that was a logical consequence of his theory.
We can seek more altruistic, sympathetic, artistic things that have nothing to do with the preservation of our selfish genes-and thank goodness we can.
Every time we use a contraceptive, we do a very non-Darwinian thing. Every time we write a book or go to a concert, we are doing something not directly related to preserving our selfish genes and surviving.
I dont really want to keep quoting Dawk because i feel unclean just copying and pasting this stuff. I do so to prove my point that Dawk is a BELIEVER in the works of Darwin and he is a preacher of the same.
May i quote for you what Darwin himslef thought of his own works?
Charles Darwin wrote:
"“When we descend to details, we cannot prove that a single species has changed; nor can we prove that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the theory.”
Darwin's theory of evolution required that transitional forms exist. As Charles Darwin became older, however, he became increasingly concerned about this lack of evidence in regards to the fossil record. Darwin found NOT A SINGLE species was a transistional species.
More the case we have in our museums and universities over 100 million fossils. NONE of these is of a transisitional species.
So if Darwin was man enough to admit his theory was wrong why the hell do they brainwash our children at school with it?
And without wanting to say verdict is in on Dawk but if he believes in Darwin who rejects his own writings, then Dawk is a snake oil salesman. _________________
I disagree, i believe he IS religious and has simply developed his own religion.
what do you think about his t-shirts with a big A for atheist on the front?
Absolutely agree with you Stelios
It's a pure religion and belief system.
It denotes meaninglessness to life as it is lived. It's nihilism and suggests nothing really matters.That it's all a chaos mechanism.
It provides the philosophical background to the current mendacious politicking and killing
There's nothing wrong with atheism other than the development of meaninglessness
The whole problem, both with the established religions and with the new atheism is the denial of god in the bodily functions
At least the established religions accept the existance of god energy
The new atheists only accept atomic and molecular materialism
They've shot the energy code out from under themselves
They have no meaning in the post-quantum world.
Dawkins and his ilk are defunct _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
Greetings From Idiot America
Creationism. Intelligent Design. Faith-based this. Trust-your-gut that. There's never been a better time to espouse, profit from, and believe in utter, unadulterated nonsense. And the nonsense is rising so high, it's getting dangerous.
Article continues at above link. Good for a laugh!
Stelios, I asked you in a different thread if you'd ever read anything Dawkins has written, and your lack of response suggested you had not. It seems fairly clear that this is so.
dh, Plato dismissed comprehensively the unfortunate idea that god-belief is necessary for morality 400 years before Christ was born, in the Euthyphro dialogue. Plenty of great thinkers since, such as Hume and Russell, have shown how small-minded that perspective is.
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: both distract
Hagbard Celine wrote:
Richard Dawkins has made some good points in his time, especially about the dangers of religious bigtry and superstitious dogma, based on scripture rather than spiritual experiences. But he's completely lost it here! He's saying that science and reason are not just a way to see the world, they are the only way to see the world.
Science did a good thing, freeing the world of dogmatic funadamentalism (as I said in my previous post, a few centuries ago you could kill someone and not face a murder charge if your victim had been excommunicated). I also don't dispute the benefits of technology. But the problem is that the rise of materialistic science has also taken something away from us, a feeling of spirituality. Most people instinctively feel this loss. A few don't mind, like Dawkins, who tries to brand everyone who does as backward and deluded! Most people do feel this however, I think. I certainly do. This is why many people, including myself, have gone on a search to find this lost part of ourselves and the universe. It's not because we're backward or deluded; it's because we know that there's a place for spirituality in our own lives and the world. It used to exist before dogmatic religion came along and destroyed it, by burning witches and "evil pagans" etc. We want to find it again. We know it exists, we just can't see it yet!
The latest scientific findings (including genetics and perhaps even quantum physics), very strongly suggests, 1) intelligent design and 2) a universal mind cause. Not all scientists are atheists and although it’s not been widely publicised, Darwin’s evolution theory has been proved to be partly wrong. Even Darwin’s own words show that the basis of his theory is wrong. Stick in the mud people have their ideas but there is no real conflict between true science and the acknowledgement of a cause that exists beyond space and time, or a Creator (or perhaps even Creators)!
My opinion is that atheism is for people who don’t bother to reason on a true spiritual or even a true logical level but religion is even worse! Understanding that there is God is one thing but religion is and always has been a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a deceptive spirit of darkness which masquerades as an angel of light.
Both have their bigots and both distract from finding the truth about who we are and where we fit in with the universe and humankind’s loss of correct identity, has led to the mess the world is in today.
But you know what? We can see it and we can find it again, because it’s inside us. Well, inside most of us – I don’t think that people like Bush & Co have it at all and often wonder if they are really human.
Oh and what on earth is wrong with that cameraman? Is he drunk?
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: My opinion?
blackcat wrote:
Quote:
My opinion is that atheism is for people who don’t bother to reason on a true spiritual or even a true logical level but religion is even worse!
My opinion is that anyone who claims to have the answers is either a liar or is seriously deluded. Whatever it is they say.
I never said I have all the answers but I know who I am and know what I know. But like most people I am exploring many things and I can give you longer answers if you wish.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 486 Location: Manchester
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:
TruthseekerJohn said:
Quote:
My opinion is that atheism is for people who don’t bother to reason on a true spiritual or even a true logical level but religion is even worse! Understanding that there is God is one thing but religion is and always has been a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a deceptive spirit of darkness which masquerades as an angel of light.
Both have their bigots and both distract from finding the truth about who we are and where we fit in with the universe and humankind’s loss of correct identity, has led to the mess the world is in today.
Whilst I lack true scientific / religious background I agree. Dawkin paints a meaningless picture devoid of any reason for humanity whilst religions paint a false reason to destroy each others humanity in the name of invisible men that are larger than their enemies unseeable version. Or at least more wealthy and possibly whiter.
Both maybe wrong but atheism certainly isn't a religion of its own. Merely the absence of belief in a deity. Doesnt mean you have to back science and Darwinism as a substitute. Or does it? _________________ The Peoples United Collective TPUC.ORG
Stelios, I asked you in a different thread if you'd ever read anything Dawkins has written, and your lack of response suggested you had not. It seems fairly clear that this is so
did you not see my previous post QUOTING the mighty Dawk himself? _________________
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
