i don't disagree with the issues you raise having an effect on top of everything else, but i think i provided enough information and examples on behaviour to prove games do also have an effect or can be as addictive as drugs.
people don't usually just buy a game then sit the rest of there lives of in a room, for many its a gradual process, they play a few hours and then it turns into to 4 then 8 and so on before they know it they are addicted, and it is happening to kids all over the place as well as adults, also people start of playing for fun but then find they are more powerful in the fake reality and it strokes their heroic hero ego side, as their life brakes down through addiction, yes i agree it causes depression.
and is adding to the problems and break down of society and familys, hence the warning and debate as im certain some games are made by design to feed addiction, or to influence a certain type of behaviour.
but lets be clear, i'm not saying all games do this or are bad for it, although any game can be addictive if you like it enough but some are just addictive by design and IMO purposely being made to do this aswell as pleasing peoples needs in the game to keep them hooked, friends,family earning an income in a real ecomony etc etc whilst being a powerful alter ego who can own a house, horse, pets etc etc, like i said online games are the worse and increasing and becoming reality for a lot of people and i mean alot.
all im trying to do is warn people to at least save a few people from the destructive side of gaming and not to fall into the same trap.
I maintain people only have a need for addiction as its a distraction from other things, its the easy option and that is why Drugs inc. Alcahol are such a problem. I agree you probably have to ween people off of games in much the same way as you do with drug use but the reason remains the same and if there is no support after rehabilitation then they'll go straight back to it or what ever else they find to numb the pain of everyday life.
On a similar note Care in the Community is a wonderful idea, all we need now is a community that cares _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:
I was just thinking about that show when writing on this thread yesterday. Much like The Matrix... and a stroke of genius - whatever happened to decent telly & films?
Still, I find most youngsters - the skateboarding outdoor types are great kids - a bit insecure as lads have always been but really nice people. Was chatting to some in central Bristol and laughing as a police van reversed away failing in its psycological warfare op against the skateboarder kids whio the council are getting a control order against
eogz wrote:
Did anyone ever watch Red Dwarf or read the books?
I was just thinking about that show when writing on this thread yesterday. Much like The Matrix... and a stroke of genius - whatever happened to decent telly & films?
Still, I find most youngsters - the skateboarding outdoor types are great kids - a bit insecure as lads have always been but really nice people. Was chatting to some in central Bristol and laughing as a police van reversed away failing in its psycological warfare op against the skateboarder kids whio the council are getting a control order against
eogz wrote:
Did anyone ever watch Red Dwarf or read the books?
Remember Better Than Life.
Wonder how many years we are from that?
Yea they are far from stupid yobs that the press would have us believe, infact I think they are quite clued up to what is going on. Through fear mongering etc. most people now avoid talking to the young adults. No wonder they are forming huge gangs and making their own rules, its a kind of Us vs Them mentality. Divide and conquer don't you just love it?
I passed a few Deception Dollars to a few in Brentwood and the leads reply was 'yea I heard about that' (9/11 inside job) next time I saw him he asked for more You talk to most adults in this town and its stiff denial You lot in London have it easy (or I'm just lucky in London) as most seem quite receptive of the idea there. _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
i don't disagree with the issues you raise having an effect on top of everything else, but i think i provided enough information and examples on behaviour to prove games do also have an effect or can be as addictive as drugs.
people don't usually just buy a game then sit the rest of there lives of in a room, for many its a gradual process, they play a few hours and then it turns into to 4 then 8 and so on before they know it they are addicted, and it is happening to kids all over the place as well as adults, also people start of playing for fun but then find they are more powerful in the fake reality and it strokes their heroic hero ego side, as their life brakes down through addiction, yes i agree it causes depression.
and is adding to the problems and break down of society and familys, hence the warning and debate as im certain some games are made by design to feed addiction, or to influence a certain type of behaviour.
but lets be clear, i'm not saying all games do this or are bad for it, although any game can be addictive if you like it enough but some are just addictive by design and IMO purposely being made to do this aswell as pleasing peoples needs in the game to keep them hooked, friends,family earning an income in a real ecomony etc etc whilst being a powerful alter ego who can own a house, horse, pets etc etc, like i said online games are the worse and increasing and becoming reality for a lot of people and i mean alot.
all im trying to do is warn people to at least save a few people from the destructive side of gaming and not to fall into the same trap.
I maintain people only have a need for addiction as its a distraction from other things, its the easy option and that is why Drugs inc. Alcahol are such a problem. I agree you probably have to ween people off of games in much the same way as you do with drug use but the reason remains the same and if there is no support after rehabilitation then they'll go straight back to it or what ever else they find to numb the pain of everyday life.
On a similar note Care in the Community is a wonderful idea, all we need now is a community that cares
yeah, i think that is my error sometimes, i keep forgetting that you need a community who cares enough. and its a bit of a merry go round really because the vast majority are not bothered about any issue because they are addicted to something or other and that is all that matters to them .
Did anyone ever watch Red Dwarf or read the books?
Remember Better Than Life.
Wonder how many years we are from that?
I'm not saying all these games are evil, just the love of them. Kind of like money I suppose.
If I really wanted to seperate myself from the control mechanisms I probably wouldn't have any technology in my home, as well as being used for nefarious purposes these things can be used to educate.
Problem is when you suggest this stuff to people they look at you like you suggested the Sun (Solar object not the newspaper) doesn't really exist. How many people really check on their children's and their own use of these things?
me!
after falling into the same trap. then by mistake almost, finding out about 9/11, then wondering how the hell i did'nt know about it, then taking a step back from myself and realising i'd had been ignoring the world around me in exchange for a fake world that actually means nothing to me. then thinking what the ..... how did i fall into this trap?
the game was controling my needs and fulfilling my asperations but in a pixel universe which at no time encouraged me not to do this but instead did all it possibly could to keep me hooked. some people call it everquest/2 most call it evercrack myself included along with numerous others,
and there are simular games out there that do the same.
some may think that each person should limit there own time on these games, but when you need to camp a spot waiting for a spawn for anywhere upto 3-10 hours just to finish of an important quest amongst other things some spawns for raids were once a week or rarer, you soon realise the gaming industry is'nt exactly disencouraging such long lenghts infront of the computer screens.
thats just one example of many where games are made by design to keep you there as long as possible, and if your hooked you will do anything to get that damned quest done.
you have to make a decsion when you need a named kill, never do the quest or camp from anywhere from 1 hour to 10 hours or more.
if you go away and leave it till later the named could spawn and be killed by others meaning you have a maximum wait again.
this is the worse online game i know of for keeping you there or hooked on purpose, before you know it playing for 10 or more hours a day is just a usual thing and is needed to get any where in the game, time to call in sick! .
"That's what SCUMM VM is for, Louise. Old LucasArts games are the only old ones worth playing, anyway. Huzzah, Full Throttle!"
What's SCUMM VM TmcMistress? , i've never heard of it.
Does it allow you to play older games on Modern computers?.
How about DOS based games?.
Yes. It's an emulator of sorts (VM stands for Virtual Machine), designed specifically to let you play older LucasArts games (Monkey Island, The Dig, Full Throttle, Maniac Mansion, etc.) on a faster pc. Unfortunately, no, it doesn't support DOS based games, but I'm sure there's an emulator out there somewhere for those. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 162 Location: Edinburgh
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:
I am a keen games player and despite owning some of the most so called violent games out there (manhunt, hitman, sly racoon etc)I also have dozens of games that are not violent. The trouble with computer games is that the public and mainstream media still foolishly think that games are for children. The recent banning of Manhunt 2 is a case in point. It is an 18 game therefore only adults should be allowed to play it. The decision to ban this game means that nobody HAS THE CHOICE to play it which is totally wrong. Games should be treated exactly the same as books and films which at times are far more disturbing. I should have the choice as an adult whether I want to play this game or not. The Following statement from the BBFC makes interesting reading.
"BBFC Rejects Video Game
The BBFC has rejected the video game Manhunt 2. This means that it cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK. The game was submitted in both a PS2 and a Nintendo Wii version. The decision was taken by the Director and the Presidential Team of Sir Quentin Thomas, Lord Taylor of Warwick and Janet Lewis-Jones.
David Cooke, Director of the BBFC said:
“Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.
“Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game’s unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game. That work was classified ‘18’ in 2003, before the BBFC’s recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category.”
“Against this background, the Board’s carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public.”
Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act distributors have the right to appeal the Board’s decision."
Thanks for that BBFC! heaven forbid I be allowed to decide this for myself being an adult. This sets a very dangerous message and no good can come from this if the BBFC's decision is allowed to stand.
"The recent banning of Manhunt 2 is a case in point. It is an 18 game therefore only adults should be allowed to play it. The decision to ban this game means that nobody HAS THE CHOICE to play it which is totally wrong."
"I should have the choice as an adult whether I want to play this game or not."
I coudn't agree more with you Eckyboy.
I was very lucky to get Manhunt 1 and yes my honest opinion is that it is very violent and brutal.
But i enjoyed the game, it was very good, has it turned me into a raving muderous axe weilding maniac?.
NO.
Although i do have to admit, when made angry i do get some very gruesome thoughts about what i'd like to do, but i had that before i played this game.
And i used Manhunt 1 as a means to vent my anger and frustration if at anytime i felt this way.
The game should certainly NOT be played by children.
But do you remember the incident that got that game banned?.
It was when that boy blugeoned that other boy to death with a hammer and Manhunt got blamed.
But as i recall it turned out to be all a load of rubbish, the game had nothing to do with it as far as i can recall.
Another lie.
Having enjoyed (and completed) Manhunt 1, i want to move on to Manhunt 2 but i can't, this (like Eckyboy said) is wrong.
However i do have a PC and i don't think this game has come out in that format yet. _________________ One sure way for evil to prevail, is for the good to do nothing.
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 162 Location: Edinburgh
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject:
Rockstar are currently appealing this decision Louise and hopefully common sense will prevail and we can play this game for ourselves. I also wanted Raw Danger but that has had it's UK release cancelled despite the fact it is out in other european countries.
I don't agree with censorship like this over 18's should be able to choose what they play/watch.
However I do continue to worry about the effects of computer games, not the media inspired excuses for murders but the over long term affect on young people.
Like the desensitization of violence (tv/movies share the blame for this too)
The fact that warfare is becoming increasingly mechanised, how different will controlling a R/C tank/bomber/fighter/ship/smart bomb be from the game for people fed this from an early age?
I'd imagine watching someone die in person is far more traumatic than watching it in screen.
This is tongue in cheek but how popular would a game be if every time you killed an enemy its pixelated mother/wife/children/father/friends came up to your character to berate your evil actions! I suppose then the pixelated police could come and arrest you and then you could spend a couple of years jail tiume getting molested by your pixelated inmates!
I play these games too, so i'm a bit of a hyprocrite in writing this.
Whilst I am not a 'gamer' by any stretch of the imagination, we do have playstations, an X-Box and a wii in the house.
Without reading every post on this subject, my daughters revel in FPS (first person shooter) type stuff and I have played some twenty or so alien/WWII type shoot-'em-ups.
However, the wii is a different animal entirely in that no matter how relaxed you might be as an individual, it does raise your heart rate if you stand and use the controller as a bat/racket or both punching fists if using the boxing aspect with two hand controllers.
The sports game that comes with it lets you play tennis, bowling, baseball etc and having set up a profile, you can enter the fitness mode and daily check for improvement. This means you don't just sit on the couch and press some buttons, you are up hitting balls over nets or at targets. I am now in competition with my sixteen year old, my initial wii fitness age was 64 on the first outing, which I have now got down to 22 over a few weeks.
Despite my arthritis in the lower body, I do two martial arts classes here at home, well, one is straight boxing actually and basic speed work just to stay in aerobic shape, but the wii helps a great deal.
Must admit wii is most impressive and definately the best for lazy kids even if they'd prefer an xbox _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
One downside I didn't mention, is that I nearly knocked one of my dogs out with the controller as he entered the room during target tennis. He still displays a nasty lump on the side of his head.
Whilst I am not a 'gamer' by any stretch of the imagination, we do have playstations, an X-Box and a wii in the house.
Without reading every post on this subject, my daughters revel in FPS (first person shooter) type stuff and I have played some twenty or so alien/WWII type shoot-'em-ups.
However, the wii is a different animal entirely in that no matter how relaxed you might be as an individual, it does raise your heart rate if you stand and use the controller as a bat/racket or both punching fists if using the boxing aspect with two hand controllers.
The sports game that comes with it lets you play tennis, bowling, baseball etc and having set up a profile, you can enter the fitness mode and daily check for improvement. This means you don't just sit on the couch and press some buttons, you are up hitting balls over nets or at targets. I am now in competition with my sixteen year old, my initial wii fitness age was 64 on the first outing, which I have now got down to 22 over a few weeks.
Despite my arthritis in the lower body, I do two martial arts classes here at home, well, one is straight boxing actually and basic speed work just to stay in aerobic shape, but the wii helps a great deal.
Stonking bit of kit is the wii.
an upside to gaming, thanks for pointing it out.
the wii is by far the most sensible and responsible thing ive played on also. computer games that make you work out thus solving one of the main problems that most gaming can cause, unfit children and adults, it also limits your playing hours as you have to take a break or recover from all that thrashing about.
all we need now is vegtables that look like sweets
It mostly depends on whether the youngsters are given the games to shut them up, thereby allowing the adults to continue about their normal business! Because that is neglect and if people are not ready to take responsibility for their offspring they shouldn't reproduce! Including Catholics _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Convert or die new game for US troops to play to unwind in Iraq and Afghanistan
One of our members discoverd this disturbing article.
Attached is a image from the game.
Courtesy of the US Pentagon, troops in Iraq can now unwind after a hard day's urban warfare and play a video game in which they command a Christian fundamentalist army waging urban warfare in America ! On the streets of New York City !
The "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game, is set in a "post apocalyptic" New York that looks almost exactly like New York City after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and lets players simulate commanding a paramilitary Christian army that seeks to convert Jews, mainline Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists, and everyone else in New York City to fundamentalist Christianity. All who resist will be killed.
Now, with the blessing and endorsement of the Pentagon, a Christian ministry with apocalyptic fundamentalist beliefs that is planning a series of tours it calls a 'military crusade' to entertain US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will also be distributing the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" 'Convert or Die' religious warfare video game....To US troops.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 486 Location: Manchester
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:49 am Post subject:
Well like Louise and others I've certainly been into gaming in the past. From the spectrum upwards but the Amiga/ST were as she said out of most kids range back then. Dungeon Master on the Amiga rocked though.
From the PSX time I got back into games big time and ebay addiction led to obtaining all the machines i'd heard of when younger and skint. I ended up with about 35 different consoles and some quite rare titles. Fun as it was, it all ended up as unfullfilling plastic nonsense. I built my own high end gaming PC for HL2 and such like and then lost some life in WoW that like Evercrack has a certain hold. My brother nearly lost his fiancee over WoW but then built her a PC and the two now run a clan server for the Shadowblades and are lost in WoW space together.
Like Marky 54, I found out about 9/11 just prior to WoW times and spent time ingame trying to spread the word. Games lost their glitter as a real world I had ignored for years had been pulling the wool over my eyes. Sadly 9/11 forums and related reading is just as addictive but at least is time well spent.
I recently caved in and bought a Wii however and yes its a great little machine and preferable for kids. Though I was gutted that Manhunt 2 was banned and that decision is outrageous. The first games linking to the murder is even in the polices words, "unrelated as the motive was robbery" and the killer hadn't played the game, as it was the victims. The plot of Manhunt is also revealing and in context for the killing, revealing a surprise, surprise, Elite bunch of scum running a snuff ring. Who deserve their comeuppence and exposure. Now we know of certain elite rings in reality that deserve exposure at the least, dont we. Resi 4 was made for the Wii though and I may just have to get an 360 for Resi 5. Again a visceral game series focused on corrupt corporations and big pharma messing with nature. With regard Manhunt 2's ban I wrote a piece on a have your say forum asking "exactly what types of violent entertainment we need to ban to stop Bush/Blair killing by the hundreds of thousands. Oh that's right a little game called WAR whilst the rest of us settle for RISK".
The Half-life series as already mentioned covers the Orwellian side and resistance whilst its certainly true that Full Spectrum Warrior was a DoD sim spruced up graphically. So yes a certain element of training the youth is at work. Deus Ex as Zabooka mentioned in a prior thread, also featured the Twin Towers missing from the Manhattan skyline (due to processing power) because they were destroyed by terrorists sometime in the past. Whilst Steve Jackson wrote the Illuminati NWO card series after the FBI busted his set up and stole his servers for writing the hacking roleplay game Paranoia.
This latest Rapture offering is possibly sick stuff as this video shows but the rapturists are lapping it up and excusing the NWO roundups violence.
For me, whilst I love FPS and RedSteel had a few nice moments such as the snuff film levels, I am now largely put off by WWII style games based on real historical conflicts. Knowing who really pulled the strings of war abolishes all this for Queen and country nonsense. It was for MIC and Bankers profits period. Little men duped to fight hard and let blood for stupid bits of coloured ribbon. Ghost Recon also had a Cuban episode taking down Fidel lovers. I now find that distasteful. Whilst MGS 4 looks amazing it does appear that Solid Snake is acting as an inbetween in the fictious Arab nation at war. A trailer reveals him fighting both sides and seemingly aiding the conflict. Though i maybe wrong. Kinda smacks of SAS in beards and bomb vans to me. Halo 3 maybe too much to resist though.
Now Rockstar are an ingenious company and have pushed the boundaries repeatedly, from anti state GTA games (I had no idea how accurate those talk radio shows and adverts were until i discovered AJ ), to anti-state RIOT sims gunning down NWO troops, to exposing the Elites prep school systems and now having criminal elements bring down Elite crime rings. Even the Manhunt manual pointed out that the hunters were all sick puppy ex forces types for hire. Sounds like Blackwater inc. They deserve a pat on the back imo and thats an awful lot of wasted money on Manhunt 2.
PC games definitely drive the hardware market and I am tired of trying to keep. Half the claims made by card manufacturers are never met and the games that follow are then written for the next card not 6 months later. PC games are never finished articles requiring millenia of patching and I feel it is time that PC's were made to halt progression for say 3 years plus at a time, whilst new technology is honed in the background ready for the next wave. Like consoles each range should have a set life of say 5 years, Something greedy Microsoft borke the rules of with the xbox that would have sunk any other company. Gates can absorb the price cuts though,so we are stuck with his PC model of consoles for the foreseable future. b******.
Now I realise kids should be kept off these things or at best heavily monitored in their time spent and content played, though its true it can help develop certain skills. I have to admit that my 3 1/2 yr old autistic son can kick ass on Wii sports and serve mean meals on Cooking Mama!! _________________ The Peoples United Collective TPUC.ORG
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You talk to most adults in this town and its stiff denial 
You lot in London have it easy (or I'm just lucky in London) as most seem quite receptive of the idea there.
.
), to anti-state RIOT sims gunning down NWO troops, to exposing the Elites prep school systems and now having criminal elements bring down Elite crime rings. Even the Manhunt manual pointed out that the hunters were all sick puppy ex forces types for hire. Sounds like Blackwater inc. They deserve a pat on the back imo and thats an awful lot of wasted money on Manhunt 2.
