Michael Meacher labelled a crackpot?

[Dr Hemp]

Anyone seen this?

http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/stories/2003/09/22/mpMichaelMeachersCra ckpotConspiracyTheories.html

We must be really getting to them! Mind you, if the Guardian says Michael Meacher is a crackpot, then I suppose it must be true!

[Hazzard]

Just keep at it.

[prole art threat]

Is there actually a paper out there that we can trust? I dont think so. I used to read The Guardian and Socialist Worker and even though I still buy them I cant bring myself to read 'em. I tend to use them as plate mats to eat my dinner off, and even that gives me indigestion.

[flamesong]

[Dr Hemp]

And of course there is the great Nexus magazine - in the current issue alone we have

- Bird flu and biowarfare
- Big Oil's links to al-Qaeda
- Health symptoms give earthquake warning
- New energy breakthroughs
- UFO reserachers divided over "Project Serpo"
- Europe's ancient pyramids

You can subscribe online at http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ and I seriously suggest to those who are pissed of at the Guardian do so, if you don't already.

[flamesong]

Yes, indeed.

I just found the list I forwarded to the organisers:

Private Eye
Fortean Times
Namaste - http://www.namastepublishing.co.uk
Nexus
New Statesman- http://www.newstatesman.co.uk
Focus (now BBC Focus Magazine) - http://www.focusmag.co.uk
Bizarre (now a bit like a sex oriented Fortean Times) - http://www.bizarremag.com

Though I don't necessarily endorse any of them.

I'd also like to add The New Internationalist to the list, though I rarely read it. But the adverts for it in The Independent always seem to focus on relevant stuff.

I also enjoy Resurgence - http://www.resurgence.org - and the free mini copy of Ecologist - http://www.theecologist.org - which came with yesterday's Independent has me wishing I could afford a subscription. It has a great little exposé on Diet Coke™ and Aspartame.

[Dr Hemp]

[flamesong]

[Dr Hemp]

I'm genuinely sorry to read this, but I fear my knowledge of human nature means it doesn't surprise me - * is not anything sacred on this planet? Nexus magazine selling out? what the *?????

I never saw the documentary, but it wouldn't take a genius to work out that Channel 5 would be more than likely to do a piss take rather than serious coverage.

It's also a shame that Nexus doesn't employ anybody who knows how to properly use a desk-top-publishing programme to do the layout, as sometimes it's quite hard to read because of the poor layout, but in the content you'll find articles that you will not find elsewhere. Get what they are saying about Bird flu and biowarfare in the latest edition.

Let's hope, as you say, it was an error of judgement! As I say, I'm a big fan of the magazine and I salute them for telling us the truth, which they've been doing for years.

[insidejob]

"publishers of the Socialist Worker, are a fairly well known front for MI5." - Flamesong

Flamesong,

more on this please.

insidejob

[flamesong]

There is another thread on this. I don't really want to repeat myself, so forgive the C/P:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=1670

[mason-free party]

DON'T FORGET NEXUS IS AN ANAGRAM OF SUN AND SEX....alot of disinfo mixed with truth but hardly ever touching the 9/11 truth issues

[flamesong]

How can NEXUS be an anagram of SUN and SEX when NEXUS has five letters and SUN and SEX together have ...er... SIX letters? Where is the other 'S' which would make this non-fact slightly less insignificant?

And just out of curiosity, what would have been the significance, in your opinion?

[insidejob]

"Re: The Socialist Worker would love to hear from you!
The Socialist Workers Party (SWP) is generally regarded as an MI5 front which has itself spawned countless other fronts including the Anti-Nazi League (ANL), Globalise Resistance, the Stop the War Coalition, Respect and other children and grandchildren." - Flamesong

Flamesong,

Your comments demonstrates that you politically disagree with SWP's political strategy (if it has one, that is) and actions. It doesn't suggest that it's a 'control-dissent' creation of the MI5. Yes, SWP, Stop the War et. al reject so-called conspiracy theories. But that's no different to most people on the Left.

Do you have any evidence or circumstantial evidence that suggests MI5 has captured or created the leadership positions of the SWP?

insidejob

[flamesong]

I don't know what kind of evidence would satisfy you, insidejob, but I don't actually feel any obligation to convince you. I have little doubt that no insignificant organisation can exist which is not infiltrated.

If you doubt this, consider London Greenpeace (not to be confused with Greenpeace International), essentially a group of five, whose campaign against McDonalds was documented in the film McLibel.

In the film, Dave Morris jokes that at one meeting of the five around the table, four were Special Branch (although, when I met him, this was the first thing I asked him about and he confessed that it was an exageration for effect). But there were at least two infiltrators - in a small, local group!

Greenpeace itself was famously infiltrated by Christine Cabon of the French Secret Service (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure) and Alain Mafart and Dominique Prieur of the French armed forces which resulted in the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

My own experience at DSEi in Docklands in 2003 when an undercover cop (with whom I had been sat talking less than an hour earlier) was exposed in front of a crowd of protesters was quite striking - and frightening.

Of course these examples are not front organisation, nor are they evidence that the SWP and its issues are. But to my satisfaction, suffice to say that there is little doubt that the SWP contains agents of the state. That it is being navigated is obviously difficult to prove. Any agent who was exposed would be in some danger. Any concrete proof would spell the end for the organisation and the last thing the powers that be want is hoards of unguided radicals running wild.

There are enough well informed people out there who believe that the SWP is controlled by MI5. Its pariah status is no accident - if they were not like mosquitos with their Socialist Worker, annoying and persistent, they might not be so unpopular.

But as you seem so causal about this, perhaps you would like to offer some evidence to the contrary.

[flamesong]

[mason-free party]

[insidejob]

Flamesong,

I just wanted to know whether you had any evidence or, more likely, circumstantial evidence. People on the Left and trade unions come across the SWP all the time. It would be nice to know whether they are an MI5 front.

I think most so-called Revolutionary Left organisations and parties are a bit weird and a bit of a pain. I accept some individual members report to their local Special Branch. But I also accept that without their activism some campaigns wouldn't exist - such as Stop the War. But I do need significant circumstantial evidence before I start treating them as an MI5 front.

insidejob

[flamesong]

[flamesong]

[flamesong]

[johnnyhotshots]

This is nothing new; the same thing happened to David Icke; rubishing his reputation to discreit him.

[mason-free party]

Flamesong....what i'm getting at is i find it strange that you are using masonic symbolism on your website i.e interlocking circles... i also find it strange that a business man sets up a conspiracy exhibition in one of the most masonic towns in England...its certainly a funny old world we live in
www.flamesong.com

[flamesong]

[Abandoned Ego]

Being a none mason myself, although I do live in Blackpool, Im just wondering if you might enlighten me "mason free party";

[flamesong]

Wow, MFP, you really can make a mess of joining the dots, can't you!

Yes, I confess, I joined the Jon Ronson forum. I belive there are quite a few others on here who were/are also members of the Jon Ronson Forum.

I joined it having seen Secret Rulers of the World on Channel Four in which Jon Ronson 'infiltrated' Bohemian Grove with Alex Jones. I say, 'infiltrated' in inverted commas for a reason which will become apparent, I hope.

At the time of joining, which is not the date you have in mind - also to become apparent - there weren't many forums for people to discuss stuff like this and Jon Ronson'r forum was about as good as I could find. To be honest, I think that posting anything serious there is a waste of time.

Anyway, having seen the Channel Four documentary and Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove several times each, I concluded that Jon Ronson could not have infiltrated Bohemian Grove as he repeatedly claimed on his forum. I concluded that Jon Ronson spent his time in a motel room with Alex Jones' bride-to-be, Violet Nicholls, albeit in an innocent way.

I became very critical of Jon Ronson on the forum and he became very stand-offish. After a while the forum seemed to vanish - but a small handful of forum members found a way in via the back door and left goading messages about Jon Ronson not being able to take criticism and just being a piss-taker. I started my own first forum and invited the few remaining people to join that, if they wanted to speak freely.

Eventually, the forum was removed entirely. Then, quite by accident, I stumbled upon the new forum just after it was relaunched - I wasn't aware that it was the day after. Actually, I just checked and it was four days after!

You might also note that I haven't posted there since 22nd January 2005.

If you are accusing me in colluding with Jon Ronson to ridicule Alex Jones and David Icke, I am at a loss! Apart from being a listener to Alex Jones since July of 2001 (a few months prior to 9/11) I having been a guest at David Icke's home on the Isle of Wight and taken out to lunch by him at his local pub to discuss making a documentary in order to counter the ridicule he was receiving.

Whilst I do not share all his beliefs, I do respect him and I think he is a decent bloke.

And of John Lundberg, the circlemaker, I fail to see the relevance. He created the Jon Ronson forum and was a moderator on it (but not for a long time, I believe). He is a documentary filmmaker and made an interesting documentary called The Mythologist. So, what are you getting at, exactly?

As for the ridiculous claim that the nazi's formed the first Olympics, pedantically speaking it was the Greeks in ancient times.

Oh, you mean the modern Olympics, the ones which were started by the Greeks in Athens in 1896 (actually by a Frenchman, Baron Pierre de Coubertin). Either way, a few years before the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

On the whole, your conclusions look a little flawed.

Oh, incidentally, it seems that I was wrong about Jon Ronson. It turns out he did make it into Bohemian Grove after all. Apparently, he didn't want it to be known in case it affected his work adversely.

[flamesong]

Can I assume then, MFP, that having attempted to drag my (pseudo)name through the * Blackpool sand, you have withdrawn to a safe distance and have little interest in the facts?

Or have you got further revelations to make?

Perhaps you know more than I do!

Maybe these alleged nefarious connections explain why I managed to escape being DNA tested when I was arrested!

Maybe the Freemasons are so secret that some of the members don't even know that they are members!

[paul wright]

I met Flamesong on Indymedia a long while ago and more recently in Blackburn in real life on the occasion of the now fallen Straw and Condi love-in visit
I testify he is a most worthwhile guy, and doing great jobs here

[mason-free party]

[flamesong]