View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
TonyGosling Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Emmanuel Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 434
|
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry to reply so late. But int he response to the initial story. It is not just descrimination, it is censorship.
I do understand choosing to work where you work is privelge, but at the end of teh day we all have a choice where we put and earn our money.
Some people are so proud that they are paying their taxes.
Yet an alful amount of tax payers money is being placed in DEFENCE. To destroy peoples homes, kill children (both in the place of invasion and the soldiers)
Our refusal to submit starts with where we place our energies, our money and our general communications with those around us.
I suppose the more we keep silent about these pressing matters wherever we are the more people will continue to go along with the lies.
I actually start debates off about 911, in which many people happily want tot express how they feel about it, some prefer not to investigate as it upsets teh equilibrium of their lives, others are quite curious. Keep askign questions. I am not so good at being subtle, but by questioning the media, authority in general in a light handed way is the only way people will begin to step out of the prisions they are so heavily attatched to.
The cities are our prisons, as long as we keep working for and in those places of slavery , we cant complain when the walls become stronger and the shackles become tighter. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gareth Suspended
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 398
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
*Update*
The recruitment agency have (finally after some persistence) informed me that they or the employer won't be putting the reason for my dismissal in writing as they don't have to.
I will be attending my local CAB at the next available opportunity. _________________ www.truthaction.org/forum
www.wearechange.org.uk |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eckyboy Validated Poster
Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 162 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thats a new one gareth I have never heard of that one before. Even if you have worked in a company for under a year you are entitled to know why you have been dismissed. When you make a claim with the benefits agency they ask why you left your last employment. They then check this with the employer before deciding if you should get any money. This is from the ACAS website that spiv mentioned you should check:
"Right to receive a written statement of reasons for dismissal
The legislation gives most employees (with some exceptions - see Those who are not covered by the provisions relating to a written statement of reasons for dismissal, below) whose employment is terminated with or without notice, or whose limited-term contracts expire without being renewed, the right to receive from their employers, on request, a written statement of the reasons for dismissal or the non-renewal of their limited-term contracts. A limited-term contract is a contract for a fixed term or the performance of a specific task, or one which ends when a specified event does or does not occur. It is important to note that an employee who has been dismissed has no right to receive such a written statement unless he or she asks for one. The request can be oral or in writing. Employers are required to comply with an employee’s request for a written statement within 14 days of the request being made.
Employees dismissed at any time during pregnancy or statutory maternity or adoption leave are entitled to receive from their employer a written statement of the reasons for their dismissal, regardless of whether or not they have requested one, and regardless of their length of service.
The written statement can be used in evidence in any subsequent proceedings, for example in relation to a complaint of unfair dismissal.
Those who are not covered by the provisions relating to a written statement of reasons for dismissal
The right to a written statement of reasons for dismissal does not apply to:
anyone who is not an employee, for example an independent contractor or free-lance agent;
generally those who have not completed one year's continuous employment at the time of their effective date of termination (generally the last day on which the employee worked). For a fuller explanation of how to calculate the effective date of termination, see the document Unfairly dismissed?
masters and crew members engaged in share fishing who are paid solely by a share in the profits or gross earning of a fishing vessel;
members of the police service and the armed forces."
The law at the moment is a total joke and with all these stories of human rights cases you would think it would apply with employees as well. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | I will be attending my local CAB at the next available opportunity.
|
You are wasting your time. The whole point of encouraging the spread of agency work was to remove the hard won worker's rights which took generations to get. You have ZERO right to question your termination as an agency worker, something I know from past experience which was confirmed by the CAB at the time. I had a six-month contract which was terminated after a few weeks because circumstances changed and my "employer" simply cancelled the "contract". I was at liberty to do the same at any time apparently. In other words the "contract" was worthless verbiage. So was yours. You have no rights and that is the point of agency workers. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
scubadiver Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1850 Location: Currently Andover
|
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I myself am currently a temp and I wrote an email to Gareth saying that the agency were well within their rights to terminate his employment. After all, they have a reputation to look after and so does the business he worked for however passionate he (or the rest of us) may feel about speaking about it.
I told a couple of members of staff in my office about William's talk and I also went up to London for the Aug 11 demo in London. I said I was going to London but refused to say why only because I don't want to upset the apple cart.
I won't jeopardise my position when there is a time and place for everything. I will speak about 9/11 when I am not doing it on company time or as their representative.
But when I say I want a day off for Sept 11th people may start putting two and two together.
My 2p
PS Having said all that, Gareth's reply to my email did have a certain logic to it so we shall wait and see! _________________ Currently working on a new website |
|
Back to top |
|
|
telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
|
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Under UK law, temporary workers have no right to redundancy pay, to claim unfair dismissal or to take maternity leave.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4338656.stm
I view this that Gareth said something in the work environment that sparked controversy, this just happended to be about 911. This later culminated in two fellow workers having an argument in a semi-connected type of way. The company saw Gareth as being provocative and asked he be removed by contacting the agency he was hired through.
As nice as it would be to get 'free publicity' from championing Gareth's plight via a tabloid route, this is about a temp worker who got the boot for speaking out about a subject in the workplace which people didn't like.
I realise some view my comments as being trivial, which is cool, however, he has no right of redress, this is a legal cul-de-sac, consequently game over. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
|
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
telecasterisation wrote: | Under UK law, temporary workers have no right to redundancy pay, to claim unfair dismissal or to take maternity leave.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4338656.stm
I view this that Gareth said something in the work environment that sparked controversy, this just happended to be about 911. This later culminated in two fellow workers having an argument in a semi-connected type of way. The company saw Gareth as being provocative and asked he be removed by contacting the agency he was hired through.
As nice as it would be to get 'free publicity' from championing Gareth's plight via a tabloid route, this is about a temp worker who got the boot for speaking out about a subject in the workplace which people didn't like.
I realise some view my comments as being trivial, which is cool, however, he has no right of redress, this is a legal cul-de-sac, consequently game over. |
so basically there is no freedom of speech if you want to keep your job?
if two other workers argued about it i fail to see how gareth had any control over it.
would the results of been the same if gareth said that arsenal were the best team in the premier league, which then resulted in two workers having an arguement about it?
i think not.
so what we have is someone being dismissed simply because they spoke about 9/11 not because he started an conversation which led others to argue about it. the two that argued about it should of been called to the office and told arguements in the workplace will not be tolerated end of story.
however with the way temp workers are treated it dos'nt suprise this has happened. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
telecasterisation Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 1873 Location: Upstairs
|
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
marky 54 wrote: | so basically there is no freedom of speech if you want to keep your job?
if two other workers argued about it i fail to see how gareth had any control over it.
would the results of been the same if gareth said that arsenal were the best team in the premier league, which then resulted in two workers having an arguement about it?
i think not.
so what we have is someone being dismissed simply because they spoke about 9/11 not because he started an conversation which led others to argue about it. the two that argued about it should of been called to the office and told arguements in the workplace will not be tolerated end of story.
however with the way temp workers are treated it dos'nt suprise this has happened. |
All the way through this I have strived to highlight that perspective is the governing factor here. It doesn't matter what you, I or Tony Gosling think, for we are not in positions of authority in the paper shredding company. It is their view that matters here, not our's.
If they deem Gareth's comments to be inflammatory and unwanted, then they are. He was seen as the catalyst that kicked off the trouble at work - again it matters not if this was accurate or not - we are in no position to make any difference to the outcome.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, there is no free speech there or here - how many people have you seen banned from here because of what they have typed? No difference whatsoever.
It is all about shifting perspectives, you see it one way until you are in the same position and it all changes.
Life isn't 'fair'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
|
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
telecasterisation wrote: | marky 54 wrote: | so basically there is no freedom of speech if you want to keep your job?
if two other workers argued about it i fail to see how gareth had any control over it.
would the results of been the same if gareth said that arsenal were the best team in the premier league, which then resulted in two workers having an arguement about it?
i think not.
so what we have is someone being dismissed simply because they spoke about 9/11 not because he started an conversation which led others to argue about it. the two that argued about it should of been called to the office and told arguements in the workplace will not be tolerated end of story.
however with the way temp workers are treated it dos'nt suprise this has happened. |
All the way through this I have strived to highlight that perspective is the governing factor here. It doesn't matter what you, I or Tony Gosling think, for we are not in positions of authority in the paper shredding company. It is their view that matters here, not our's.
If they deem Gareth's comments to be inflammatory and unwanted, then they are. He was seen as the catalyst that kicked off the trouble at work - again it matters not if this was accurate or not - we are in no position to make any difference to the outcome.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, there is no free speech there or here - how many people have you seen banned from here because of what they have typed? No difference whatsoever.
It is all about shifting perspectives, you see it one way until you are in the same position and it all changes.
Life isn't 'fair'. |
i can see what you mean and understand what your saying regarding temps rights and employers rights etc, but the only thing i disagree with is that he was dismissed for saying something that caused other workers to argue.
to believe that you would have to believe they would of done the same in the example i gave. ie: if gareth said arsenal are the best and two others argued about it. i doubt very much it would of happened under those circumstances, therefore the reason for the over reaction from his employers has to be the fact he questioned 9/11 and someone took offence rather than the fact two other workers argued about it.
if gareth had said something differant, and workers argued about it, the outcome would of been differant and the blame placed on the workers for argueing and being immature. so all im saying is it has to be the 9/11 issue which is why he was given marching orders(unless of cause we believe they would of done the same had it been something differant he had said that caused argueing like for example raising questions about the EU or if u.f.o's exsist or ghosts or whatever). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Disco_Destroyer Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 6342
|
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow the DTI has had a name change???
http://www.berr.gov.uk/
But here is some interesting info, seems to hinge on the contract you signed!
Quote: | Your booklets talk about Employment Agencies (EAs) and Employment Businesses (EBs) – what is the difference?
An EA will introduce you to hirers that you are going to work for permanently (or work for on a fixed or short term contract). With this arrangement, your contract will be with the hirer you go to work for and not with the agency.
An EB (commonly known as a Temp Agency) will place you with hirers to work but your contractual relationship is with the EB and it is the EB that is responsible for paying you.
Back to Top
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
I know the difference between an Employment Agency (EA) and an Employment Business (EB). Does it make any practical difference to me?
Yes. If your contract with an agency is on an EB basis, they must pay you even if they have not been paid by the hirer themselves. If your contract with the agency is on an EA basis, they have to pass on money they receive on your behalf within 10 days of receiving it (unless you request otherwise). However, if they don't get paid, they don't have to pay you.
Back to Top
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
How can I tell if an agency is an Employment Agency or an Employment Business?
Most agencies will operate in both ways. You need to be sure what you are asking them to do for you, i.e. find you permanent and temporary work, and be sure you understand the contract that they ask you to sign.
Back to Top |
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/employment-agencies/faq/page23965.ht ml _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Disco_Destroyer Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 6342
|
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and from the same DTI how about this for 'Newspeak'
Quote: | Warning: too much information can harm: The Better Regulation Executive and the National Consumer Council have published a joint interim report looking at how to maximise the positive impact of regulated information for consumers and markets. |
http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulation/reform/ _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|