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TellmeTruth
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 Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Police's Eye in the Sky |
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'Spy helicopter' used at festival
A remote control "spy helicopter" has been helping police patrol a major music festival.
Staffordshire Police have been using the CCTV drone for the first time at the V Festival site this weekend.
more>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6953650.stm
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Police's Eye in the Sky |
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| TellmeTruth wrote: | 'Spy helicopter' used at festival
A remote control "spy helicopter" has been helping police patrol a major music festival.
Staffordshire Police have been using the CCTV drone for the first time at the V Festival site this weekend.
more>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6953650.stm |
Did it help at all? |
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TellmeTruth
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I hope not.
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Bongo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Typical of the police...
1. Arrest innocent people for smoking a little blow at a festival.
2. Completely ignore the real criminals and gangsters.
The police are completely corrupt. Dont trust them ever.  |
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skadseye
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid= 9096&t=4
| Quote: | Police at the Glastonbury Festival are the first force in the country to use new mobile cameras which will broadcast whatever the police officer is looking and listening to back to a bank of computer screens at the police base.
The Body Worn Video Wireless system, made by Reveal Media in partnership with Domo, uses encrypted digital video transmission from cameras worn on the police officer as well as transmitting the officers position back via GPS receivers.
Avon and Somerset Constabulary are the first police force in the UK to use the system and are trialling it at the Glastonbury Festival. |
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festival of snickers
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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i wish a camera or two had recorded the b****** who assaulted me for no reason
cameras? who cares! 
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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What is often forgotten, is that 'the police' are simply civilians in uniform. Most have a family, a house, a mortgage. They get sick and have days off.
They are in no way different to anyone else, with the exception that they each have a plastic card that allows them to legally deprive members of the public of their freedom in circumstances other than citizen's arrest.
It is just a job.
Last edited by telecasterisation on Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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festival of snickers
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | What is often forgotten, is that 'the police' are simply civilians in uniform. Most have a family, a house, a mortgage. They get sick and have days off.
They are in no way different to anyone else, with the exception that they each have a plastic card that always them to legally deprive members of the public of their freedom in circumstances other than citizen's arrest.
It is just a job. |
id say most cops in my town are ok but who knows
king crimson? i have that cd and had lp in 1971
three of a perfect pair and wake of poisedon is good
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festival of snickers
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | What is often forgotten, is that 'the police' are simply civilians in uniform. Most have a family, a house, a mortgage. They get sick and have days off.
They are in no way different to anyone else, with the exception that they each have a plastic card that always them to legally deprive members of the public of their freedom in circumstances other than citizen's arrest.
It is just a job. |
id say most cops in my town are ok but who knows
king crimson? i have that cd and had lp in 1971
three of a perfect pair and wake of poisedon is good
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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The Court Of The Crimson King is my favourite album alongside Brain Salad Surgery by ELP. The only track I skip is Moonchild.
As for bad police - every job has dodgy employees, some steal stationery, some abuse other employees, whilst others abuse power. There is no way to filter out or identify suspect individuals in the induction and training process. That said, a few play their hand early and highlight themselves as being racist or whatever during training.
It is like every other job, a few bad staff members taint the entire workforce by reputation alone. |
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Rowan Berkeley
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | hey each have a plastic card that allows them to legally deprive members of the public of their freedom in circumstances other than citizen's arrest. |
And a big stick, pepper spray and sometimes guns. Handing such tools and powers to a mildly cretinous youth is just asing for trouble. The police are simply the most powerful gang on the streets with the best resourced and most comprehensive protection racket. They also have a monopoly regarding recognition by insurance companies and the contract to maintain the political/economic status quo. Few people like or trust coppers, so they often have social circles revolving around their own kind which enhances their social otherness.
Of course some coppers are lovely - I kind of picture Tele riding round on a bicycle amiably humming prog rock and gently chiding errant youth - though others are at their very best when they're out of harms way having a kip at the side of the motorway.
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Of course some coppers are lovely - I kind of picture Tele riding round on a bicycle amiably humming prog rock and gently chiding errant youth - though others are at their very best when they're out of harms way having a kip at the side of the motorway. |
I was viciously attacked twice in the line of duty. Once by a pair of drunk rugby fans, the other was as a result of being called to a 'domestic'. I was in the process of arresting the husband for lamping the wife when she tried laying into me with a heavy cast iron frying pan - I wish I had had some form of pepper spray then - people forget that the police are usually right in the line of fire upon arriving at a disturbance.
I never once rode a bicycle in the line of duty.
As for police asleep on the motorway - it is very very rare to see police on the motorway now as this is now very much the jurisdiction of The Highways Agency and they have Highway Patrol 4x4's doing 90% of what traffic police used to do. Apart from chasing speeders, or processing drivers involved in personal injury accidents, police have little purpose there. |
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Bongo
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with the police is that 99% of them are just 'yes men' (alwright... awright!!!  ... and women). No police officer uses his own common sence any more, for the simple reason that they are not allowed to.
The government places expectations in the form of targets on the police force and officers are persuaded to do all they can to achieve the required levels of fines or arrests. This happens from the top down. Senior 'Scotland Yard' officials approve such things as the 'spy-plane' and officers lower down are instructed to maximise the ammount of convictions made with the use of such a device. This then lets the top officials send a report back to the government saying; | Quote: | | "What a great initiative we have just undertaken. Look at all the effect it has had! Can we have some more money now, for... oh say... Tazer guns?" |
The whole system is not about fighting crime...
It is about the government setting targets to fight the perceived threats, which we are told are far greater than they are, by... you guessed it, the government controlled media. And the reason for doing this? Yup, so that the government can continue their unabated destruction of all our civil liberties and rights.
If anyone thinks that the police force is still run like in the programme "Heartbeat"... don't be so foolish. Also, anyone who works for the police, how about you speak out and do your job of protecting the public, instead of following boollsh1t orders which accomplish the exact opposite, which in the long term, places us all in danger.
I'd take a guess why you wouldn't speak out... because logical debate and use of common sense no longer have a place in a system run by controlling government. Not to mention the warning never to do it again that you would get.
Yeah... ah sure trust dem police folks !!! |
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Bongo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I am not going to appologise for triple posting... It was the slug of a forums fault!
Last edited by Bongo on Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bongo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| See above ^ |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Bongo wrote: | | Also, anyone who works for the police, how about you speak out and do your job of protecting the public, instead of following boollsh1t orders which accomplish the exact opposite, which in the long term, places us all in danger. |
Speak out about what exactly? You sign the Official Secrets Act when you join which is essentially a gagging order, so what information do you want them to disclose, or who do you want them to challenge and about what?
There is a recognised hierarchy in the police, where those 'below' take orders from those 'above', I am uncertain how you perceive things;
| Quote: | | The problem with the police is that 99% of them are just 'yes men' |
For that is what you do when ordered to do something?
We've just had a whole wobbly thread where someone was sacked due to what they said in the workplace - and you now want those who know exactly what they can and can't discuss to literally do just that.
Can you elaborate a little more as to the benefits of 'speaking out' and what it means? |
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Bongo
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Tele...
I will have to take your whole post with a pinch of "you obviously have not understood my post' salt!!!
Anyway, what is the official secrets act got to do with individual police staff's day to day running of an open sensible and transparent police force?
This is a document which outlines the policy of open and transparent police obligations to the public from the Police Service of Northern Ireland (although it must be said that how much of this is rhetoric is questionable!)...
www.psni.police.uk/transparency_policy_final_amended_30.5_03.doc
... any doubt of the questionability of the above is easily seen on the PSNI website...
http://www.psni.police.uk/index/statistics_branch.htm
...funny that these statistics are for 'Government departments and agencies' at the top of the list with 'Members of the public' bringing up the rear? The rest you can figure out yourself im sure?
You also state that...
| Quote: | | For that is what you do when 'ordered' to do something? |
Actually, when I am asked to do something, the first thing I do is assess what it is that I am being asked to do (no matter by whom!). If I have any misgivings about the order, I have a duty of care to report back my concerns before undertaking said task or placing others at risk from passing the 'order' down.
Ps. I have also placed the word 'ordered' in colons, as this only exists in the military (where you do not have a choice)... in any other walk of life, you can and most definately should assess the request (in full) before acting upon it.
Finally, you state...
| Quote: | | We've just had a whole wobbly thread where someone was sacked due to what they said in the workplace - and you now want those who know exactly what they can and can't discuss to literally do just that. |
In actual fact, as I remember he or she was on a temporary contract and were simply told they were no longer needed... he/she was not sacked! Also, we do not know the exact circumstances of his/her situation.
| Quote: | | Can you elaborate a little more as to the benefits of 'speaking out' and what it means? |
... well  ... maybe if some lowly bobby spoke out about the De-menezes shooting, it might be less likely to re-occurr in the future... hence making us all safer?
"Just the first thought that came into my head!" |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bongo wrote: | Sorry Tele...
I will have to take your whole post with a pinch of "you obviously have not understood my post' salt!!!
Anyway, ............that came into my head!" |
I am a trifle unsure from which direction to approach your above response. There is a great deal of assumption based upon semantics.
You say that the military is the only occupation where you have no choice when it comes to orders? Well, if it's simply a matter of choice, you can refuse an order in ANY occupation providing you are prepared to face the consequences, military personnel included.
This comes down to the differences between instructions / directives / orders / whatever you like, for yes you can certainly question any order given to you by anyone, but this then has implications as to keeping your job. What specifically do you refer to regarding orders issued to serving police officers?
There are 'standing orders' which are different again - are you suggesting that every police officer should question every directive they are given? I just don't comprehend the concept you suggest.
You then create something of a dichotomy in that you question the relationship between coppers on the beat and the open disclosure of information. Would you be happy with those holding your privileged information covered by the Data Protection Act openly discussing it down the pub? Your bank clerk giving away copies of your bank statement down the high street.
Every police officer has information that could compromise investigations and operating procedures, not to mention it is illegal to disclose certain information pertaining to evidence and witnesses. You'd like your identity revealed to the remaining members of a gang where one is in custody and you are the witness?
When you join such an occupation as a police force, you swear an oath or attestation and that includes acknowledging the rank structure and what that entails. I perceive your stance as being 'Let's join and just do what we like instead'. There are rules in every occupation, just like there are rules here, are you suggesting everyone ignores them all? No surgeon 'bothers' to wash their hands before surgery?
The 'transparency issue' is actually very superficial and you need to rethink your 'open policy' stance.
As for the temp agency worker - he was most definitely 'fired', but your semantic chicanery definitions may of course not take specifics into account. |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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We all have a choice any time we perform any action.
Though we do find ourselves in situations where we do have to consider our livelihood, our families etc. And it is certainly difficult to question orders in an authoritarian structure. But somewhere in this is the spectrum spanning some copper rescuing someone from being attacked, to attacking peaceful protesters (e.g. there were numerous accounts of the police ignoring violent individuals and venting their fury on people just trying to get out of the way at the battle of Trafalgar. And who can forget Lord Cardigan's account of the heavily pregnant woman being mercilessly beaten by uniformed thugs at the battle of the beanfield. Just following orders, sir. Nothing to see here - move along please).
At the end of the day, if we follow an order, it is our responsibilty for choosing to obey. If we believe the consequences to ourselves outweigh refusing the order, it is our choice and our responsibility.
| Quote: | I was viciously attacked twice in the line of duty. Once by a pair of drunk rugby fans, the other was as a result of being called to a 'domestic'. I was in the process of arresting the husband for lamping the wife when she tried laying into me with a heavy cast iron frying pan - I wish I had had some form of pepper spray then - people forget that the police are usually right in the line of fire upon arriving at a disturbance.
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That sounds nasty. I was once viciously attacked by a psychiatric patient; yet only a couple of days before she'd kept trying to flash her knickers at me. That's bipolar affective disorder for you.
The police are in the front line. But not exclusively. And coppers have weapons and the mandate to use them. And God help he that batters a copper as opposed to a civilian. Assaulting a police officer is a serious offence.
You are right about the traffic police. With all these new variantions, like the community support 'plastic police', I get confused. It's all just flashing lights to me.
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Bongo
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I am a trifle unsure from which direction to approach your above response. |
I think that's probably because you are not understanding the issue!
| Quote: | | There is a great deal of assumption based upon semantics. |
It is not semantics, as I have provided all relevant links and I cannot see how I can make the point clearer?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semantics
| Quote: | | Note: Semantics is commonly used to refer to a trivial point or distinction that revolves around mere words rather than significant issues: “To argue whether the medication killed the patient or contributed to her death is to argue over semantics.” |
It would appear to me that the Police operating to a government driven 'target culture' and no one in the police speaking out against this situation, can hardly be described as semantics.
| Quote: | | You say that the military is the only occupation where you have no choice when it comes to orders? Well, if it's simply a matter of choice, you can refuse an order in ANY occupation providing you are prepared to face the consequences, military personnel included. |
... and the opposite could be true. If someone was to order you , for example, to do something dangerous on a building site and you follow the order resulting in someone getting hurt, you could lose a lot more than just your job.
| Quote: | | There are 'standing orders' which are different again - are you suggesting that every police officer should question every directive they are given? I just don't comprehend the concept you suggest. |
... sorry, but yes, I suggest every member of police staff give their full consideration of what they are being asked to do.
| Quote: | | You then create something of a dichotomy in that you question the relationship between coppers on the beat and the open disclosure of information. Would you be happy with those holding your privileged information covered by the Data Protection Act openly discussing it down the pub? Your bank clerk giving away copies of your bank statement down the high street. |
...Now, this is where you go off on a bizarre tangent. I think you are confusing open and transparent policing with, as you suggest, "those holding your privileged information openly discussing it down the pub?"
| Quote: | | When you join such an occupation as a police force, you swear an oath or attestation and that includes acknowledging the rank structure and what that entails. |
...well that's just frightening.  So you are suggesting that there is no room for a member of the police force to use their intelligence to make a judgement.
| Quote: | | I perceive your stance as being 'Let's join and just do what we like instead' |
...thats poor, because I find fault with your logic, then you automatically assume I am coming from exactly the opposite direction? I guess you live in a zebra coloured house since there only seems to be black and white in your life! I'm afraid there is a lot of grey areas in life too.
| Quote: | | The 'transparency issue' is actually very superficial and you need to rethink your 'open policy' stance. |
...Now I am 100% sure you have not read the previous posts before chaffing away on your keyboard. Listen and listen close...
ready...
It is not MY stance. It is the police forces policy as can be seen from the previous links. Just incase, here is the link again... just in the hope that it might clarify the situation once and for all!
www.psni.police.uk/transparency_policy_final_amended_30.5_03.doc
... although I must agree with you, I also think that this policy is quite possibly very superficial indeed.
| Quote: | | As for the temp agency worker - he was most definitely 'fired', but your semantic chicanery definitions may of course not take specifics into account. |
...so much for your knowledge of employment law (did you say you were a policeman?) No employer in his right mind would fire a temporary employee when it is much easier to simply terminate their temporary contract. This is so that the employee cannot file an unfair dismissal suit.
But again, we do not have both sides of this story, so therefore my freind...
That is semantics. |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Bongo wrote;
| Quote: | ...so much for your knowledge of employment law (did you say you were a policeman?) etc.......my freind...
That is semantics. |
Your knowledge of police work and their jurisdiction is incredibly shakey and I now fully understand your inability to grasp the finer points.
Police have no input into civil matters. They are not trained in civil areas such as employment law, so the assumption you make that police would 'know' employment law is blatantly incorrect. 'The primary objects of an efficient police is the prevention of crime', outside that then they are merely observers, arbitrators, so I acknowledge your shortfall in understanding, which is cool., I wouldn’t expect you to know that.
You do however have a very bizarre understanding of ‘the police’ and just like those who blame an entire country for the actions of its government, you wrap them all up as being responsible. Policy comes from above and just like when you joined this forum and clicked that you have read and agreed with the terms of joining, you did the equivalent of an oath, it only differs due to the medium.
Police officers do take considered actions, based upon jurisdiction, evidence, intuition, experience and safety, yet you wrongly assume that they are automatons who simply react to programming. Can you give examples of what you mean about police officers simply doing whatever they are told without thought? You need to get it straight in your head about what you mean exactly. I quote you;
| Quote: | | Also, anyone who works for the police, how about you speak out and do your job of protecting the public, instead of following boollsh1t orders which accomplish the exact opposite, which in the long term, places us all in danger. |
It clearly IS YOUR stance and posting links to pass the buck is not going to wash as your previous words speak for themselves. How can you 'do your job' if you continually question it at every turn - that IS the job?
However, Gareth's thread was very clear as he was told not to return to work. You can wrap that up in whatever terminology you like, it changes nothing. He was sacked/fired, which is why everyone was up in arms, the basis of the thread somehow eluded you. |
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