Earlier in the thread were requests for evidence of transitional species and the theory of evolution.
There is no evidence for any transitional species.
Despite over 100 million fossil records.
Even Darwin debunked his own novel before he died.
So why today are idiots today still preaching Darwin's novel?
People like Dawkins and Bill Gates for example.
Darwins novel was the basis for Hitler's genocide of inferior humans.
Darwins religion was the foundations for Pol Pot who wanted to kill superior humans.
There is no half monkey half human, there never has been and unless we screw around with hybrid dna there never will be.
Evolution is a lie.
All humans are equal.
Belief in evolution means agreement with Hitler's policies. _________________
Belief in evolution means agreement with Hitler's policies.
Ok, I do believe we're not supposed to go out of our way to flame someone, but... that is STUPID. That is far & away one of the stupidest things I have ever read online, and this is the INTERNET. It is practically chock-full of stupid things. Your whole post is like a concentrated collection of idiocy. It actually hurts to read it, and you felt the need to post it 3 TIMES.
Jesus CHRIST. Stelios, do you actually think about what you type, or do you just ram your head into the keyboard repeatedly and get lucky on occasion when it happens to form words?
To borrow Bill Hicks, again, "I think God put you here to test my faith, dude." _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Stelios can say what he likes, its a free country (lol)
Hang on. If we come from apes, why are they still roaming around?
Why have some species that evolved into others not died out?
I am interested in Christianity, especially Orthodox and Byzantine art but these have been translated so many times and manipulated to suit the gangsters running it, its hard to believe in the Creation so literally.
I think the holy scriptures can work on more than one level.
Has no one heard of the Vedas, the advanced peoples of Peru or Atlantis?
Just because skulls and paper manuscripts were not found doesnt mean the civilisation werent advanced.
Communication was said to be more sophistcated. Just read the Bhagavad Gita and you will know what I mean. Our memories were used much more, whole cantos were recited and sung.
Bodies were burnt for purification. There is evidence and great descriptions of flying machines, much like the UFOs described today.
http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Ancient.Civ_Technol/050202.vimanas.h tml
I liked the analogy of the whirlwind in the junkyard that can make a shiny new mercedes. It just does not add up. There must be some intelligent artist behind every work of art and the perfections of flowers, trees and kittens cant be accidents either.
I am not so interested in physical evolution though, but human beings are generally going backwards in evolution. We may have a good range of mobile phones on the market but we dont discuss anything of merit on them.
We may be evolving technologically possibly but spiritually we are in decline. The more machinary we have between ourselves and others the more barriers we have for proper communication. Paradox innit?
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Last edited by Emmanuel on Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
I liked the analogy of the whirlwind in the junkyard that can make a shiny new mercedes. It just does not add up. There must be some intelligent artist behind every work of art and the perfections of flowers, trees and kittens cant be accidents either.
You think that relatively puny things like flowers and kittens cannot be accidents but an "intelligent artist", immensely more complex, just happens to appear from nothing. It is that flawed logic that is at the heart of every belief in a divine being.
As can I. Meaning? I'm free to call him on acting in a very stupid way. We are on a forum whose purpose is to, after a fashion, encourage free thought and a breaking away from the mind control of those in charge. So you'll have to pardon me if I thought stelios' equating those who happen to disagree with his version of things to Nazis offensive in the extreme.
Quote:
Hang on. If we come from apes, why are they still roaming around?
Credible evolutionists do not claim that we evolved from apes for the most part. They say that apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor.
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Has no one heard of the Vedas, the advanced peoples of Peru or Atlantis?
Of course they have. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
BILL HICKS keeps getting quoted and mentioned.
He is a drug taking libertine who actually believes in nothing.
A time will come when people will stop following sound doctrine, instead to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of false teachers who will tell them what their itching ears want to hear.
Bill Hicks is probably laughing into his Jack Daniels at the thought of muppets actually worshipping him and repeating his every drunken words to normal people.
Atheism is the same religion that Adolf Hitler followed. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, among others. By following atheism and the fictional literature of Charles Darwin you are indeed a fellow traveller of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin.
To deny it means you are ashamed of what your atheist doctrines cause people to do.
Which means atheism is a bad religion which makes its followers do bad things. _________________
Last edited by karlos on Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Right, I give up. Stelios, you should talk to one of my supervisors at work, she's a fine, upstanding Christian woman who thinks that allowing gay marriage would make normally straight people start thinking they were gay in droves. You and she would get along famously, I'm sure. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
The only way I can look at this discussion is in terms of psywar, and in those terms, religion,because of its vagueness, emotionality, and partisan anti-objectivity, is an ideal tool which can easily be adapted and applied either for or against any political program whatsoever. _________________ http://niqnaq.wordpress.com
Right, I give up. Stelios, you should talk to one of my supervisors at work, she's a fine, upstanding Christian woman who thinks that allowing gay marriage would make normally straight people start thinking they were gay in droves. You and she would get along famously, I'm sure.
For pity's sake. Why do you keep on going on about being lesbian?
What has that got to do with this discussion?
I probably would get on with your supervisor and with you too.
Your forgetting. Hitler, killed plenty of gays.
So please stop using your sexuality as your excuse for being an atheist.
There are plenty of gay vicars these days dont you know?
Paul McCarthny is a hindu and therfore a veggie.
Lets say Joe Bloggs too is a Hindu.
Does that not also imply that Joe Bloggs should also be a veggie?
Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, were all atheists.
TMC Mistress is a self confessed atheist.
Therefore i am suggesting you change from being an atheist into being a believer. God loves everyone equally. We all commit sins. What is the greatest sin of all is to deny the existence and supremacy of God.
For some reason you feel your lesbianism excludes you from worshipping God. it does not.
Adultery, fornication, greed, avarice, jealousy, etc
We are all sinners.
And one sinner cannot judge another sinner. Only God can judge us.
And your sexuality does not protect you nor exclude you from God's mercy or judgement. Anymore or less than another person's adultory. Or any other sin. _________________
Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 179 Location: Manchester
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:
stelios wrote:
BILL HICKS keeps getting quoted and mentioned.
He is a drug taking libertine who actually believes in nothing.
A time will come when people will stop following sound doctrine, instead to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of false teachers who will tell them what their itching ears want to hear.
Bill Hicks is probably laughing into his Jack Daniels at the thought of muppets actually worshipping him and repeating his every drunken words to normal people.
Atheism is the same religion that Adolf Hitler followed. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, among others. By following atheism and the fictional literature of Charles Darwin you are indeed a fellow traveller of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin.
To deny it means you are ashamed of what your atheist doctrines cause people to do.
Which means atheism is a bad religion which makes its followers do bad things.
I bet you didn't even watch the video linked above did you? _________________ keep asking questions!
Stelios - Bill Hicks died years ago. Like the great Christian Hitler he is no longer with us.
Until this discussion i never even heard of Bill Hicks. Now i hear he is dead.
May God have mercy on his soul.
What did he die of?
Surely he didnt choke from drinking a turd that had fallen into his drink?
Hitler. Can you locate any evidence that Hitler prayed or confessed or anything else during his latter years. When he topped himself did he ask God for forgiveness was he given the last rites.
Apart from recieving money from the Catholic church there is no connection between Hitler and any religion. His words (Mein Kampe) and his actions imply that he was an avid follower of Charles Darwin, he believed HE was the messiah and that the new world order was Heaven.
You see i have not heard any of the other atheists arguing that Hitler is not one of their poster boys. Only you Blackcat reject Hitler as one of your brethren. Why not say that Hitler was a different kind of atheist if that makes people feel easy. Why not say Dawkins too is a different kind of atheist, and Pol Pot too, and Stalin and Mao and all the other bad atheists.
But the problem is apart from Bill Hicks and some other dubious examples nobady has come up with any examples of atheists they consider to be role models. Dawkins and Bill Hicks have been the main two and i have debunked both examples quite adequately. _________________
For what it's worth, worship of something described as "the life force" was quite common in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, and obviously this is vague enough to make possible a darwinist pseudo theism - hitler was a child of his epoch to the extent that this influenced him, I imagine. _________________ http://niqnaq.wordpress.com
Only you Blackcat reject Hitler as one of your brethren.
I have no "brethren" as I have no religion and am not a member of any organisation. I have nothing in common with Hitler, his beliefs or his Christianity. You are unable to deny the way religion has been used to kill millions so make the feeble argument that those who eschew any religion have themselves the religion of "not having a religion" or of having the religion of "atheism". Feeble! Making the argument that those who oppose the evil of religion are as bad, by inventing a religion for them and then saying their members include some of the most evil people you can think of is pathetic. I have no religious beliefs and do not wish to inflict that view on anyone. Your wish to inflict "beliefs" on to people like me and then to try to make some connection with my view and those of evil monsters is typical of those who follow mainstream religion. You just have to put everything and everyone into some simplistic grouping and arrogantly have all the answers. I have no answers. I have nothing to defend either as I have never chosen to belong to any group who have murdered millions in pursuit of their beliefs. You on the other hand belong to such an organisation and cannot possibly defend its history so have to invent some of the most outrageous associations to attack your critics rather than even try to justify your membership of such an odious organisation. You are right in one aspect however - the people you mention like Hitler and Pol Pot are just as bad as the religious leaders you admire. The difference between you and I is that you choose to belong to your movement whereas I belong to none and have no problem in condemning Hitler, Pol Pot and all. You are more selective.
You really are dangerously insane. I suggest therapy, immediately. Your lack of reading comprehension, grammar, and spelling skills do not help matters.
(We've switched stelios' definition of TmcMistress with her own. Let's see if he notices the difference.)
By the by, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. There are considerable differences between the two, not that I would feel the need to justify it to you were I an atheist.
(Which, of course, begs the question of why I continue to participate in this idiocy. Maybe I am insane, that is after all one of the definitions: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time...)
Quote:
i have debunked both examples quite adequately.
You've done no such thing.
"Take mushrooms, people, and squeegee your third f***ing eye." - Bill Hicks. Inserted just for you, stelios. _________________ "What about a dance club that only let in deaf people? It would really only need flashing lights, so they'd save a lot of money on music." - Dresden Codak
Hitler. Can you locate any evidence that Hitler prayed or confessed or anything else during his latter years. When he topped himself did he ask God for forgiveness was he given the last rites.
Apart from recieving money from the Catholic church there is no connection between Hitler and any religion. His words (Mein Kampe) and his actions imply that he was an avid follower of Charles Darwin, he believed HE was the messiah and that the new world order was Heaven.
Myth 1: Hitler was not a Christian
The entire section on Hitler's Christianity provides ample evidence for his brand of Christianity. The evidence itself destroys any opinions or beliefs about Hitler's alleged apostasy.
The evidence shows that:
Hitler was born and baptized into Catholicism
His Jewish antisemitism came from his Christian background.
His early personal notes shows his interest in religion and Biblical views.
He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind.
His Nazi party platform (their version of a constitution) included a section on Positive Christianity, and he never removed it.
He confessed his Christianity.
He tried to establish a united Reich German Church.
Hitler allowed the destruction of Jewish synagogues and temples, but not Christian churches.
He encouraged Nazis to worship in Christian churches.
He spoke of his Christian beliefs in his speeches and proclamations.
His contemporaries, friends, Protestant ministers and Catholics priests, including the Vatican, thought of Hitler as a Christian.
The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. He died a Catholic.
To ignore the evidence of Hitler's Christianity demonstrates how power of belief can obscure the facts.
Myth 3: Hitler got his ideas of Aryan superiority and Jewish hatred from Darwinian evolution
Hitler showed no knowledge of Darwinian evolution or natural selection. Nowhere in Mein Kampf does he mention Darwin, natural-selection or even the word "evolution" (in the context of natural selection).
As for Aryan superiority and his Jewish hatred, Hitler clearly describes in Mein Kampf how he slowly began to change his mind about the Jews from the influence of the anti-Semitic movement of the Christian Social Party. His views with regard to anti-Semitism he said, "succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all." (read volume 1, chapter 2). Nowhere does he explain his anti-Jewish beliefs in Darwinian terms.
In his private notes, where he describes the Bible as a "Monumental History of Mankind," Hitler outlines his views of the Aryan and the Jew, all in the context of Bible reasoning, never in the context of Darwinian natural selection.
Moreover, Hitler viewed progeny, not in regards to evolution but in terms of blood lines (a Biblical view). He peppered his writings and speeches with "blood" words. Examples in Mein Kampf include:
"One blood demands one Reich."
"Bavarian by blood, technically Austrian, lived my parents..."
...the German in Austria had really been of the best blood..."
"...the weakness of leadership will not cause a hibernation of the state, but an awakening of all the individual instincts which are present in the blood..."
Clearly, Hitler had no scientific sophistication or an understanding of Darwin's theory of evolution and his "blood-line" explanation of human "progress" reveals a Biblical view, not a Darwinian view. He did, however, at times express ideas, not from Darwin, but rather from Herbert Spencer's concept of Social Darwinism, which has little to do with natural selection and served as an adjunct to his already established religious views. Spencer's Social Darwinism tried to connect Darwin's biological theory with the field of social relations. The result of Social Darwinism resulted in many eugenics programs that began in America and adopted by the Nazis. [Note that Darwin never expressed the idea that natural selection could extend from biological systems to social systems.]
Hitler best sums up his belief of Aryan superiority and his stand against the Jews with his declaration in Mein Kampf:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
You are wasting your time Mr-Bridger. Stelios has been told all this before with an abundance of links and quotes from Mein Kampf etc. but he insists Hitler was a member of an esoteric religion called Atheism. Facing the truth is something his brainwashed religious background forbids.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 3187 Location: Here to help!
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:
LOL! No-one want to own up to having Hitler on their "side": he's worse than VD!
For what its worth, IMO Hitler as an athiest is a nonesense, and Hitler as a christian is superficial at best, he grew up influenced by chrisitan society obviously, but his religion also was shaped by pagan occultism at the heart of creating the mythos for the "new germany" (Thule and Vril societies etc)
Its also no good athiests trying to shake off "social darwinism" as nothing to do with them
And athiesm is in a lot more bother trying to dissasociate itself from Lenin and Stalin, which is why they'd rather stick on the Hitler issue as its far easier to cast doubt on athiesms's responsibility there _________________ Free your Self and Free the World
The argument I offered (though no one has followed it up) uses the concept of "Life Force", and because of its liminality (lying exactly on the threshold between pseudo-science and pseudo-religion) it in turn brings into question the real meaning of the term "worship".
In fact, it seems to be impossible to completely exclude orgiastic components from the concept of worship. Thus, "worship" reverts to fertility cultism, in a more or less obvious way, very easily.
"Vril", which John mentions, is in fact an English instance of this (Bulwer-Lytton). _________________ http://niqnaq.wordpress.com
Correct by he was never confirmed and he never took up his sacrements
He never attended communion afetr becoming a teenager
Mr-Bridger wrote:
His Jewish antisemitism came from his Christian background.
Wrong, His grandfather was Jewish, his father therefore had jewish progeny but was a catholic. Hitler hated his father who beat him regularly and was cruel to his mother. His father is a lso believed to have killed Adolf's brothers and sisters by smothering them while infants.
This is probably where his anti jewish feeling began - hatred for his father.
Mr-Bridger wrote:
He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind.
Mate, he wrote about Darwins views endlessly. He REJECTED the bible as the history of mankind. He believed the Arean race were superior and that the German people were the chosen ones and that the Fatherland was in fact heaven.
He encouraged Nazis to worship in Christian churches.
He spoke of his Christian beliefs in his speeches and proclamations.
Quote:
His contemporaries, friends, Protestant ministers and Catholics priests, including the Vatican, thought of Hitler as a Christian.
TMCMistress
it is you yourself who in several posts have outed yourself. Yet you have not explained WHY?
The vatican supported and financed Hitler to an extent. As did Americans like HW Bush, Rockefellar, Avril Harriman. And rich zionists bankers too.
The catholic church did not want Hitler to kill catholics that is why they associated with him.
Quote:
The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. He died a Catholic.
He never took up the catholic sacrements and so was NOT a catholic. He murdered many catholics. He never attended mass as an adult. He never attended confession. And because he hated his father who actually tried to beat Hitler into becoming a catholic, Adolf also rejected catholicism.
Quote:
Hitler showed no knowledge of Darwinian evolution or natural selection.
This is completely wrong. I suggest you study Mein Kampe further _________________
And athiesm is in a lot more bother trying to dissasociate itself from Lenin and Stalin, which is why they'd rather stick on the Hitler issue as its far easier to cast doubt on athiesms's responsibility there
Well if Atheism is some sort of movement, either political or religious, then I am clearly not an Atheist. I just do not believe there is a God. That in no way associates my lack of a belief with the policies of Lenin or Stalin. Do you seriously believe a neocon or a Fascist who does not believe in a God is a supporter of Stalin?? Or are such monsters as neocons/Fascists automatically God believers?? The attempt to make people without a belief in a God as bad as those who do believe in delusional nonsense seems to be an essential defence mechanism for religious people.
Hint: He was born in Austria, tried to take over the world, and no, he’s not the Governor of California.
By Robert Flynn
The most famous Christian of the 20th century was Adolf Hitler.
Sure, we call Hitler infamous today. But before he started gobbling up European countries like they were little bratwurst sausages, Hitler was famous as a world leader with high moral values and a distinctly Christian vision.
Though Hitler talked a lot about being a Christian, the million-dollar question is: did he actually consider himself one? The answer isn’t simple. True, he was born and died a Roman Catholic; in fact, he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ” in the church and served as an altar boy. And in 1941, the year he rolled into Russia, Hitler told General Gerhart Engel: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” The Vatican, for its part, considered Hitler Christian enough; they certainly didn’t excommunicate him.
Over the years Christians have argued that Hitler was an atheist, a hard claim to defend. Never mind that he repeatedly attacked atheism, he never said anything to indicate he was an atheist. From what those who knew him later in life said, Hitler was a theist, viewing God as a somewhat distant figure, though not wholly removed from human affairs; after all, the S.S., Hitler’s elite soldiers and personal bodyguards, wore belt buckles that read, “Gott Mit Uns”—or “God Is With Us.”
I have more faith in God than I do in the Scientists, who cant even make puny things like flowers or kittens.
Surely something like bacteria would be what you'd call 'puny'? Mind you, they f*cked up the martians...
At any rate, kittens grow into cats which are the ultimate mammalian killing machine. Not puny.
With this Hitler stuff, please bear in mind even Hitler had enough elementary common sense to play politics with the church considering a big chunk of his population were Christian and he was already picking on the Jews. He's hardly going to have come to power shouting "f*ck the pope!".
My partner was confirmed and she sang in a choir. It was just what she did. She doesn't believe in God.
He had nuff run-ins with the church and didn't show much Christian brotherhood to the Jehovahs Witnesses. Not that it matters much really. Only he knew what he really thought. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
Its not the symbol itself its the INTENT that it is important.
Being born into a religion doesnt make you a believer as much as attending a building called church makes you a servant of God.
I think Bush has announced his good christian values quite frequently. Do you believe it?
It is 911 that has brought this sense of duality on its head. Good, evil. with us, or you are the terrorists, being a true patriot, being an alien.
All this kind of upside down forms of language are filtering into our own consciousness now as reality!
Stelios is making a fair point. Those who are atheist do not care of the consequences of killing people. After all there are no punishments, heaven or hell, or morality in a Godless world.
Im sure, like today Hitlers rise to power was not a one man show, he openly spoke of a New World Order and brought in views very similiar to the findings of Darwins investigations of turtles etc....
These discussions become circular as they often do, misinterpreting matters of semantics and lables.
I am praying for us all
Personally, I find it very sad if people need the fear of punishment in the afterlife to be moral. being an agnostic with no specific fear of divine retribution, I'd like to think I restrain myself from flagrantly immoral acts due to more than the simple fear of getting caught.
Moral philosophy over the last 100 years has been largely secular. You do not need religion to have morality. Though, as Nietzsche astutely observed, atheists tend to follow a distinctly Judeo-Christian based moral code even when they think they're being all different. _________________ It's a man's life in MOSSAD
Hi DM,
If you like punishment or not, its there. We are all suffering. From birth, old age, disease and death. In this life now as well as after the body expires.
When you hurt someone they have pain, when you harm yourself through alcahol or too much cake , you suffer later. We can pretedn there is no punishment or affect, but the law of cause and affect is there.
A video to see where Im coming from.
I am not God fearing I love God. http://youtube.com/watch?v=G9_tyeIASNM
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