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karlos
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: Mon03Sep - LONDON - 7/7 bombing victims' meeting |
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London Bombing victims public meeting
Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:30 pm
Tonights public meeting will be focussed on the events of 7th July 2005. It will be a unique event combining the perspectives of a 7/7 survivor as well as the family of a 7/7 victim.
Speaking at the event will be Daniel Obachike author of the book
http://www.the4thbomb.com/
a survivor of the London bus bombing. He will also show exclusive video clips and will be signing copies of his book.
Joining the platform and also speaking will be Thomas Ikimi the award winning film director. He has just released his latest film - The Homefront which he hopes will help pressure the Government into holding a public
inquiry into the 2005 bombings, in which 56 innocent people died.
He has dedicated the film to his cousin Mr Fatayi-Williams whose father was a Muslim from Hendon, a 26-year-old executive with oil and gas company Amec. Who unfortunately died in the very same bombed bus.
He will be signing dvd copies of his movie.
http://www.thehomefrontmovie.net/
Held at the Indian YMCA
Fitzroy Square.
London W1
nearest tube Warren Street
Spread the word.
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TonyGosling
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karlos
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just bump this back to the front to remind people we have some leaflets to deliver.
Anyone want to meet up and hand out leaflets please contact me and we can meet up.
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Disco_Destroyer
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karlos
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for everyone who came.
It seemed to go really well. The hall was much fuller than usual and we had alot of totally new faces attend. Everyone was very attentive and seemed really interested so hopefully the meeting served it's purpose of raising awareness.
Had it not been for the tube strike which unfortuantely occured on the same day there certainly would have been standing room only.
Well done to Meg and Gareth as well as the speakers Thomas and Daniel for all of their combined efforts. Which contributed to a successful evening.
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| stelios wrote: | Thanks for everyone who came.
It seemed to go really well. The hall was much fuller than usual and we had alot of totally new faces attend. Everyone was very attentive and seemed really interested so hopefully the meeting served it's purpose of raising awareness.
Had it not been for the tube strike which unfortuantely occured on the same day there certainly would have been standing room only.
Well done to Meg and Gareth as well as the speakers Thomas and Daniel for all of their combined efforts. Which contributed to a successful evening. |
I would concur.
In particular the interesting points made by the eye-witness account who had no particular recollection of the bus drivers alleged saintly behaviour. He did say though that the bus diverted from its original route then went towards its destination making an abrupt stop AFTER he had seen some black cars and motorbikes.
So why would the bus make an abrupt stop in an area where there was no stop? The only explanation that one can give is that it is positioned in a square which then becomes easy to isolate from all points.
Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose.
Why was the bus driver nowhere to be seen for almost a week? Yet so many conflicting stories have emerged by him. Why was he promoted so closely by Gordon Brown? Is this Browns test for the NWO?
Some interesting news reports and stories regarding the bus driver.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=74905
Why more than 2 years after the event no analysis has ever been made of the bus bomb by J7 truthers?
J | Quote: | 7 Incident Analysis: Number 30 Bus, Tavistock Square
9.47am Tavistock Square, Number 30 Bus Explosion
Full article coming soon.... in the meantime, here are some pictures. Note the timestamps on the images which begin at 09:54. The number 30 bus explosion is reported as occurring at 09:47 on the morning of 7th July 2005 and many photos exist in the public domain showing a large number of people still standing on the top deck of the bus. |
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/07/ubus.x ml
| Quote: | | The Greek-born bus driver recalled how he moved to London in 1972 to stay with relatives after deciding to leave the rag trade where he had been employed most of his life. |
The above is stated in the article regarding the bus driver.
He moved to London in 1972 ...after deciding to leave the rag trade where he had been employed most of his life.
He was 49 in 2005. In 1972 he was 16. Which rag trade did he leave at 16?
His mothers aprons?
Made up stories for a made up event. If hes an actual bus driver I must be an astronaut.
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/bus/090705Timesbusdriverdraginjure doff.html
times | 9th July 05 | original url: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1687566,00.html
Changes with other driver at the last minute
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THE driver of the bus ripped apart by a terrorist bomb told last night how he tried to rescue his injured passengers in the minutes after the explosion.
George Psarabakis, 50, who was meant to be on another bus route but swapped with a colleague at the last minute to the No 30, thought that he had hit the pavement when the bomb went off. |
Helped passenger victims of the explosion which occurred at 9.47am
| Quote: | With only cuts and bruises, Mr Psarabakis climbed out of his cab and started helping to pull survivors from the wreckage of the double decker.
"I looked down at myself and saw that I was OK, then my next thought was to do something for the injured. I helped as many as I could off and kept going until my back went - it was agony. I really tried my hardest to get the victims off the bus - I really did." |
He helped passengers after the blast and walked 7 miles.
| Quote: | | Although he lives in Stoke Newington, in North London, he continued his journey west for seven miles and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am. He was still wearing his blood-spattered uniform. |
Bus blast was 9.47. He gets to hospital at 10.50am. In one hour.
Bus driver or marathon runner? Times events in another newsreport dont fit. Who can walk 7 miles after being in an explosion and helping victims?
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | Why more than 2 years after the event no analysis has ever been made of the bus bomb by J7 truthers?
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60 pages of analysis on the Tavistock Square bus explosion here:
http://z13.invisionfree.com/julyseventh/index.php?showtopic=23
The bus page will be on the website soon.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose. |
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/fh/free/308423921125771.php
When interviewed years after the Enniskillen bombing, Robert McCartney never came across as a "sick mind" - he said he just felt the need to record what had happened, as he was the only person in a position to do so.
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose. |
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/fh/free/308423921125771.php
When interviewed years after the Enniskillen bombing, Robert McCartney never came across as a "sick mind" - he said he just felt the need to record what had happened, as he was the only person in a position to do so. |
Cant really comment on a source you dont quote...
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that hadn't come across it before. Working through it...
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose. |
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/fh/free/308423921125771.php
When interviewed years after the Enniskillen bombing, Robert McCartney never came across as a "sick mind" - he said he just felt the need to record what had happened, as he was the only person in a position to do so. |
Cant really comment on a source you dont quote... |
Robert McCartney did at Enniskillen what you suggest "only a sick mind would do." The link confirms he did so, as you would have found out if you had bothered clicking on it. If you can really make the effort, you can see some of the footage used here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/25480.stm
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/07/ubus.x ml
| Quote: | | The Greek-born bus driver recalled how he moved to London in 1972 to stay with relatives after deciding to leave the rag trade where he had been employed most of his life. |
The above is stated in the article regarding the bus driver.
He moved to London in 1972 ...after deciding to leave the rag trade where he had been employed most of his life.
He was 49 in 2005. In 1972 he was 16. Which rag trade did he leave at 16?
His mothers aprons?
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That is a very good point. It was very widely reported that he used to be in the rag trade BEFORE he came to the UK.
It must be a made up story because to the naked eye it appears plausible. Because we all know alot of CYPRIOTS are involved in the 'rag trade'. But most of the Cypriot Greeks came to the UK in 1974. The bus driver is actually from the mainland Greece. In 1972 he would have had no right to emigrate to the UK as Greece was not in the Commonwealth.
So how would a 16 year old non Commonwealth citizen be allowed to emigrate to the UK? Marraige? Work Permit?
I am not saying it is impossible, but it does not add up.
The bus driver is a prime suspect in the crime that was committed that day and should be arrested and questioned. Swapping bus routes i am told is not a normal occurance. London Bus drivers usually work shifts and usually are assigned specific routes for a long period of time like years. Rates of pay also vary according to routes. EG a small bus like a W5 the driver gets paid less that a Euro elongated bus driver. Eg £9 per hour instead of £7.50 per hour.
So a last minute swap of routes is very unusual and can be dangerous to passenger. Buses have crashed into bridges and trees because fo a change of route and people have died.
So it really is a practice that bus companies avoid.
If for a 2 year stretch a driver has worked the number 52 route and today he works the number 29 it is very risky.
Implausible.
As the eye witness stated. Why did the bus stop and park where it did?
No bus stop. Diverted from it's normal route.
It makes no logical sense.
Unless the bus driver was part of the crime and told to stop his bus there and wait.
His behaviour of leaving a crime scene (accident scene) is illegal. If you crash your car and cause fatality you have to stay until police arrive dont you?
A bomb would mean that the driver MUST stay with his vehicle and leaving and dissapearing is a criminal act.
What if he was drunk? And dissapeared to sober up?
Normal procedure would be that the bus driver has to stay.
Instinct would mean that a driver of any vehicle let alone a public carrying vehicle must stay with his crashed/blown up vehicle.
The bus driver to abandon the scene has committed a serious chargeable crime. 'Failure to stop' or something like that. For him to abandon the scene he must have had other things on his mind. Possibly to debrief his handlers, possibly to verify his next move. Who knows.
So i agree. The bus driver is a suspect and like briefcase man aka Richard Jones and Headband man, needs to be questioned.
Richard Jones who was filmed walking with his briefcasepast victims of the tube bomb unaffected by the carnage around him, not stopping to help, suddenly becomes the sole bus bombing eye witness. It is impossible for Richard Jones to have even been on the bus. Therefore his newspaper evidence not his testimony to an inquest, or trial, or inquiry, his newspaper interview evidence states he was on the bus and saw the bomber's backside practically in his face in front of him.
As amusing as that is deliberately meant to sound it is a blatant lie. The humour is there to show us that he is telling the truth. because no man would admit to having another mans backside in his face. It is a slight of hand deception.
Richard Jones was not on the bus.
It was dissapointing but not surprising that the J7 people chose not to attend the meeting.
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose. |
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/fh/free/308423921125771.php
When interviewed years after the Enniskillen bombing, Robert McCartney never came across as a "sick mind" - he said he just felt the need to record what had happened, as he was the only person in a position to do so. |
Cant really comment on a source you dont quote... |
Robert McCartney did at Enniskillen what you suggest "only a sick mind would do." The link confirms he did so, as you would have found out if you had bothered clicking on it. If you can really make the effort, you can see some of the footage used here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/25480.stm |
Who he is and why he recorded what he saw is open to question.
British security services were involved in many of the bombs which were alleged to be by the IRA.
British ex-army personnel were known to be creating mayhem in Ireland and were even uncovered in the early 1970's for being involved in illegal acts such as bank robberies.
So when an event occurs where death is the outcome and someone starts videoing it and not helping the injured I will still say this is sick.
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Irish terrorism is a good example of where M15 and the Special Branch had paid informers, double agents and insiders. And at times actually instigated terrorist acts.
So why do people hide from the fact that 7/7 could have and probably did have paid informers, double agents and insiders?
The government has already admitted that at least two of the bombers were known to them. Why was the bus bomber not on the dummy run?
What happened on the outdoor exercise when they all went white water rafting and who else was non the course on who were the instructers?
If there was no foreknowledge why did the Israelis know about it ahead of time and why have Guardian journalists uncovered other examples such as the Saudis who provided warnings to the UK ahead of time.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Also why would they start to record as stated by the eye-witness account directly AFTER an explosion? Only a sick mind would do that if he saw dead bodies on the street or someone with a purpose. |
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/fh/free/308423921125771.php
When interviewed years after the Enniskillen bombing, Robert McCartney never came across as a "sick mind" - he said he just felt the need to record what had happened, as he was the only person in a position to do so. |
Cant really comment on a source you dont quote... |
Robert McCartney did at Enniskillen what you suggest "only a sick mind would do." The link confirms he did so, as you would have found out if you had bothered clicking on it. If you can really make the effort, you can see some of the footage used here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/25480.stm |
Who he is and why he recorded what he saw is open to question.
British security services were involved in many of the bombs which were alleged to be by the IRA.
British ex-army personnel were known to be creating mayhem in Ireland and were even uncovered in the early 1970's for being involved in illegal acts such as bank robberies.
So when an event occurs where death is the outcome and someone starts videoing it and not helping the injured I will still say this is sick. |
Sometimes people are just what they are, in this case a a hotelier who by all accounts was a keen videographer, and had his camera with him at a ceremeony which was a significant event in the calender of the town. He was interviewed in this BBC programme:
http://catalogue.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/programme/NBSJ296N
I'd be happy to send you a copy, presumably it being better to judge what he actually says (like the fact there were more than enough people already helping the injured), rather than rely on your own conjecture about a specific event you clearly know nothing about. Open minds, and all.
Oh, and I don't think you'll find any real doubt who was responsible for the bombing. One size doesn't always fit all, just because you want it to.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| stelios wrote: | | Irish terrorism is a good example of where M15 and the Special Branch had paid informers, double agents and insiders. And at times actually instigated terrorist acts. |
Undoubtedly, but just because their fingerprints are all over the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the Miami Showband murders, doesn't mean they had a hand in every atrocity.
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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I accept that
But 7/7 dont you think that M15 and have their grubby hands all over that?
Where did the military grade explosives come from?
What happened to all the cctv footage?
Wht was Benjamin Nethanyu given a warning before the first bomb?
Why did police and media very quickly identify the suspects before any post mortum or identification of any remains, how on earth could they have done that? ESP
And who ordered the terror drills to be held the same day at exactly the same stations?
Most of the IRA and INLA terrorism was genuine for want of a better word.
Todays so called Islamic terrorism is mostly all proven as fake.
7/7 - no investigation, no inquiry, no inquests
21/7 - 40 years each for carrying a bag of flour
Ricin plot - all aquited
Liquid plot.
etc
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| stelios wrote: | I accept that
But 7/7 dont you think that M15 and have their grubby hands all over that?
Where did the military grade explosives come from?
What happened to all the cctv footage?
Wht was Benjamin Nethanyu given a warning before the first bomb?
Why did police and media very quickly identify the suspects before any post mortum or identification of any remains, how on earth could they have done that? ESP
And who ordered the terror drills to be held the same day at exactly the same stations? |
There are a lot of anomalies that seem to point in all sorts of directions, the unlikely concentration on TAPT as the only explosive being one of many. My money is on military grade explosives from the Balkans, which is awash with the stuff. Easy to obtain, hard to trace precisely, and/or deniable, depending on how it got here.
As to the "terror drill" or "drills," there doesn't doesn't seem to be much concrete evidence that the one that everyone's attention is on was anything like as complex as some are suggesting. The more participants, the more chance of leaks, but who other than Power himself has even acknowledged it, even if that wasn't just opportnistic "advertising" on his part? Power was an established "expert" for the media on such matters, so it's hardly surprising that he would pop up, exercise or not.
Knowing consultancy firms, Visor probably sell the same exercise or key elements of various options to numerous companies, which is easy money for little effort. What we don't have is a paper trail, and pardoxically, the more people we assume were involved, the bigger that should be. More "actors," more "scripts." Visor is, of course, by no means the only company that sells crisis management to the public and private sectors, and there are only 52 weeks in the year. Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on.
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ukginger
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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CCTV Missing again....
Look they should have been easily able to edit together the CCTV to show the "bombers" throughout the whole journey all the way to the target....
The question is why not ?
The issue of CCTV comes up time and time again, the other big one would be why no CCTV of the plane crashing into the Pentagon ?
BTW Some people think that they want everybody in the 911 Truth Movement to state that it was not a commercial airliner then produce the video to sink the 911 Truth Movement.
Ooops I'm getting off topic... sorry.
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conspiracy analyst
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Staraker"] | stelios wrote: | | Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on. |
Yeah but the difference is that the management of the Underground stations according to reports on that day were also participating in a drill.
Just like happened during 9/11.
The probability of placing a CIA agent in charge of the London Underground and bombs going off point in which direction? That its a coincidence?
Why didn't we have bombs prior to Kileys arrival?
The drill ...became the real event in all probality. Peter Power admits they went from fake drill to real, ie they took over the crisis management.
Hence when the eye-witness account states they were recording a full 12 seconds AFTER the blast in all probability he was part of the drill.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ukginger wrote: | CCTV Missing again....
Look they should have been easily able to edit together the CCTV to show the "bombers" throughout the whole journey all the way to the target....
The question is why not ? |
Sure, and I think that the way the CCTV footage has been handled has contributed greatly to people's suspicions. It should be possible to construct a far more detailed "video trail" and one thinks of the obvious example of that which was done for Jamie Bulger more than a few years back. There, however, the subject of the surveillance was fairly ovbious - i.e a small child in the company of two older boys - and therefore more easy to spot, but even then it was compiled from a great variety of sources. As for 07/07, it should be theoretically possible to back-track on various motorway/traffic/service station/etc. cameras, but the task would be monumental, even if all the possible footage was available, so I suspect that simply wasn't done.
For Tavistock Square, again we could have a plethora of traffic camera material, some of which has surfaced, but not enough to calm doubts. As such cameras are often directional, rather than being locked-off in one particular direction, it's not guaranteed that the bus was caught by every one it passed, but if that were the case, it would be as useful to disclose what was captured by each one, to either prove that it was "doing something else" at the time, or in the hope that it provides some useful detail that wasn't previously spotted, if all that was being looked for was the bus.
The lack of CCTV from the bus is rather glaring. As far as I'm aware, such units record to hard-drive rather than tape these days, and it occurs to me that, being a more impact-fragile medium, it may be that it could have been in operation, but was irretrievably-damaged. To simply claim that it wasn't working at all is a good way of heading off the inevitable demand that a more secure - and therefore expensive - medium should be used in future, "just in case."
| Quote: | | The issue of CCTV comes up time and time again, the other big one would be why no CCTV of the plane crashing into the Pentagon ? |
Again, I think that that's a case where partial disclosure has been counter-productive. Has anyone actually worked out how many cameras were or could have been pointing in the right direction, and accounted for what they did record at the time? Another problem one runs into is time-lapse systems, which record only a fraction of the frames-per-second as regular video, which I think may be the issue with the only "impact" footage released.
| Quote: | BTW Some people think that they want everybody in the 911 Truth Movement to state that it was not a commercial airliner then produce the video to sink the 911 Truth Movement.
Ooops I'm getting off topic... sorry. |
It has a strange ring of truth, sometimes it's best to allow the "other side" as much rope as possible before kicking the chair away. If some people get fixated on impossible details, it can draw attention away from more easily exposed anomalies.
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Nick Cooper
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on. |
Yeah but the difference is that the management of the Underground stations according to reports on that day were also participating in a drill. |
According to contradictory reports. These things aren't done by word-of-mouth. Where's the paper trail?
| Quote: | | The probability of placing a CIA agent in charge of the London Underground and bombs going off point in which direction? That its a coincidence? |
Kiley worked for the CIA for seven years upto 1970, apparently in a managerial role. More to the point, as far as I'm aware, nothing exploded during the four years he was with the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, or the seven years he was with the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Do we judge a man on the seven years he did in one job he left 37 years ago, or the 40+ years he spent in other ones? I'd hate to have people think everything I do can be linked to the 11 months I worked for the RSPCA twenty years ago!
| Quote: | | Why didn't we have bombs prior to Kileys arrival? |
Are you serious? There were at least 17 between 1885 (yes, 1885) and 1992, not counting WW2, of course:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/subterra/lu/luterror.htm
| Quote: | | The drill ...became the real event in all probality. Peter Power admits they went from fake drill to real, ie they took over the crisis management. |
What Power actually said could be taken to mean they went from processing scripted information to reported events outside. Where is the proof they had any involvement in crisis management of the actual explosions?
| Quote: | | Hence when the eye-witness account states they were recording a full 12 seconds AFTER the blast in all probability he was part of the drill. |
Central London is usually hardly devoid of tourists with camcorders, and I daresay anyone carrying one might be a little bit more ready to use one, what with all the earlier commotion going on.
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conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on. |
Yeah but the difference is that the management of the Underground stations according to reports on that day were also participating in a drill. |
According to contradictory reports. These things aren't done by word-of-mouth. Where's the paper trail? |
Wheres the Public Inquiry? I forgot two months prior to the London bombings we change the law regarding Public Enquiries whereby we decide we dont need them after all. Logical enough, as one couldn't really question fake terrorism now could one. When we had real terrorism, Bloody Sunday 1972 we had 3 Public Inquiries and the conclusion was what? Not guilty. The British Army as always in its occupational role was acting in the most honourable tradition...
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The probability of placing a CIA agent in charge of the London Underground and bombs going off point in which direction? That its a coincidence? |
Kiley worked for the CIA for seven years up to 1970, apparently in a managerial role. More to the point, as far as I'm aware, nothing exploded during the four years he was with the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, or the seven years he was with the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Do we judge a man on the seven years he did in one job he left 37 years ago, or the 40+ years he spent in other ones? I'd hate to have people think everything I do can be linked to the 11 months I worked for the RSPCA twenty years ago!
| Quote: | | Why didn't we have bombs prior to Kileys arrival? |
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I presume working for the CIA and the RSPCA is linked. I can see two connections. The letters C and A. Similar to Bush's connection of Iraq and Al Quaeda. Both have an A and Q...
He worked in the CIA in Latin America as far as I know. When the USA was supporting its usual array of Democratic Dictators who used to dissapear people in football stadiums and torture them using their favourite Germans they gave passports to as 'refugees' (Hitlers SS). I know what you mean when you say there is a connection with the RSPCA.
Defending animals appears to be your policy.
No one died. Most of them were probably planted by the security services to blame movements in opposition to the democratic nature once again of British rule. Refusing votes to women and treating the Irish worse than dogs. But then again the biggest terrorist atrocity on British soil warrants no Inquiry. Why should it? Baby killers aren't prone to have a conscience now are they? They haven't even had the decency to ask for a proper compensation of the deceased.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The drill ...became the real event in all probality. Peter Power admits they went from fake drill to real, ie they took over the crisis management. |
What Power actually said could be taken to mean they went from processing scripted information to reported events outside. Where is the proof they had any involvement in crisis management of the actual explosions?
| Quote: | | Hence when the eye-witness account states they were recording a full 12 seconds AFTER the blast in all probability he was part of the drill. |
Central London is usually hardly devoid of tourists with camcorders, and I daresay anyone carrying one might be a little bit more ready to use one, what with all the earlier commotion going on. |
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Why hasn't he been called in for questioning alongside the Bus Driver?
I forgot ...no Public Inquiry. Where is the evidence he isn't involved?
You have gone round in circles to prove that everything is as it seems.
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Nick Cooper
Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | conspiracy analyst wrote: | | Staraker wrote: | | Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on. |
Yeah but the difference is that the management of the Underground stations according to reports on that day were also participating in a drill. |
According to contradictory reports. These things aren't done by word-of-mouth. Where's the paper trail? |
Wheres the Public Inquiry? |
A very good question. Shame you seem to have erroneously leapt to the conclusion that I don't think there should be one.
| Quote: | | I forgot two months prior to the London bombings we change the law regarding Public Enquiries whereby we decide we dont need them after all. |
Absolutely. A terrible and pernicious piece of legislation that is completely contrary to a true determination of the facts (whatever they turn out to be).
| Quote: | | Logical enough, as one couldn't really question fake terrorism now could one. When we had real terrorism, Bloody Sunday 1972 we had 3 Public Inquiries and the conclusion was what? Not guilty. |
Wrong again. There was one tribunal now widely acknowledged as a whitewash, one inquest where the coroner rightly declared it "murder," and one public enquiry yet to deliver its findings, but will presumably do so under the "old rules," since it predates the 2005 legislation.
| Quote: | The British Army as always in its occupational role was acting in the most honourable tradition...
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The probability of placing a CIA agent in charge of the London Underground and bombs going off point in which direction? That its a coincidence? |
Kiley worked for the CIA for seven years up to 1970, apparently in a managerial role. More to the point, as far as I'm aware, nothing exploded during the four years he was with the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, or the seven years he was with the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Do we judge a man on the seven years he did in one job he left 37 years ago, or the 40+ years he spent in other ones? I'd hate to have people think everything I do can be linked to the 11 months I worked for the RSPCA twenty years ago! |
I presume working for the CIA and the RSPCA is linked. |
Only if you're spectacularly trying to miss the point....
| Quote: | | I can see two connections. The letters C and A. Similar to Bush's connection of Iraq and Al Quaeda. Both have an A and Q... |
So you are, then. Come on, it's not difficult - think about it. What were you doing twenty years ago? Does it have much bearing on what you're doing now?
| Quote: | | He worked in the CIA in Latin America as far as I know. |
Really? Got a source for that?
| Quote: | | When the USA was supporting its usual array of Democratic Dictators who used to dissapear people in football stadiums and torture them using their favourite Germans they gave passports to as 'refugees' (Hitlers SS). |
Maybe some time you can some up with something that I didn't already know about and was condemning when you were probably still in short pants....
| Quote: | | I know what you mean when you say there is a connection with the RSPCA. Defending animals appears to be your policy. |
Oh come on, you can do better than that. You say something stupid, and I prove you wrong. You're supposed to come back with something a bit more rational and factual, and a lot less puerile.
Apart from that shot driver, you mean? And a lot more could have died, especially in the Wood Green bombing.
| Quote: | | Most of them were probably planted by the security services to blame movements in opposition to the democratic nature once again of British rule. |
You should be careful with that - people might just think your blatant prejudices get in the way of rational thinking or judgement.
| Quote: | | Refusing votes to women and treating the Irish worse than dogs. But then again the biggest terrorist atrocity on British soil warrants no Inquiry. Why should it? Baby killers aren't prone to have a conscience now are they? They haven't even had the decency to ask for a proper compensation of the deceased. |
CICA payments are set by law - it would be illegal for it to exceed those limits unless the law is changed. If you're so concerned, have you written to your MP asking them to propose or support such a change in the governing legislation? Relatives of anyone killed in a crime get the same amount of compensation. Do you think they'd merit more or less if their relative was knifed in a dark alley or run off the road by a drunk driver, as opposed to being blown up on a train?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | The drill ...became the real event in all probality. Peter Power admits they went from fake drill to real, ie they took over the crisis management. |
What Power actually said could be taken to mean they went from processing scripted information to reported events outside. Where is the proof they had any involvement in crisis management of the actual explosions?
| Quote: | | Hence when the eye-witness account states they were recording a full 12 seconds AFTER the blast in all probability he was part of the drill. |
Central London is usually hardly devoid of tourists with camcorders, and I daresay anyone carrying one might be a little bit more ready to use one, what with all the earlier commotion going on. |
Why hasn't he been called in for questioning alongside the Bus Driver? |
How do you know "he" hasn't, if "he" existed at all?
| Quote: | | I forgot ...no Public Inquiry. Where is the evidence he isn't involved? |
As above. Try to remember that the trick to working out what happened in any situation is to look at all the evidence, and then try to work out what makes the most sense; you don't start off with a preconceived idea, and then try to shoehorn in "evidence" that "fits", even if it would never even get into court, let alone stand up in there. For example, if you were wrongly up on a murder charge, wouldn't you want to make sure that someone you didn't know who turned up and provided you with an alibi was reliable. You really don't don't want to wait until you're in the dock when they suddenly remember, "Oh no, you're right, it wasn't that day, after all!"
| Quote: | | You have gone round in circles to prove that everything is as it seems. |
If you genuinely think that, then obviously the second part of your username is meant as an ironic joke. Objectivity means scrutinising everything with equal vigour, not just the bits you don't like.
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karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Staraker wrote: | There are a lot of anomalies that seem to point in all sorts of directions, the unlikely concentration on TAPT as the only explosive being one of many. My money is on military grade explosives from the Balkans, which is awash with the stuff. Easy to obtain, hard to trace precisely, and/or deniable, depending on how it got here.
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Might be easy to obtain for an M15 desk operative like yourself, but not easy to find for the average punter.
My money is still on Mossad supplying the explosives as they reported in the Israeli ppress that the explosives were the same as those used in the cafe bombing in Haifa
| Staraker wrote: |
As to the "terror drill" or "drills," there doesn't doesn't seem to be much concrete evidence that the one that everyone's attention is on was anything like as complex as some are suggesting. The more participants, the more chance of leaks, but who other than Power himself has even acknowledged it, even if that wasn't just opportnistic "advertising" on his part? Power was an established "expert" for the media on such matters, so it's hardly surprising that he would pop up, exercise or not.
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Do you have any links to previous interviews with Peter Power?
Keeping all of Verint's staff busy that day probably also involved switching off all the cctv hard drives. Probably the reason why there is no cctv evidence dont you agree?
| Staraker wrote: |
Knowing consultancy firms, Visor probably sell the same exercise or key elements of various options to numerous companies, which is easy money for little effort. What we don't have is a paper trail, and pardoxically, the more people we assume were involved, the bigger that should be. More "actors," more "scripts." Visor is, of course, by no means the only company that sells crisis management to the public and private sectors, and there are only 52 weeks in the year. Given the size of London, it would have been more remarkable if there hadn't been any such exercises (whatever scale one believes them to be) going on. |
Obviously i dont 'know' security consultants as well as you do but there is a clear paper trail.
Peter Power's client was a company called Verint.
I dont see any problem following the paper trail.
OK so if there are these exercises going on regularly on the underground how come i am only aware of one exercise where simultaneous bombs were going off.
And the billion-to-one thing is that the same day as the drill the real thing actually happened at the exact same stations at the exact same time.
I know people who work for London Transport and they are not aware of the ever having been those kind of drills before or after 7/7.
I must say by you guys constantly posting on these sites you actually wind people up and make them more determined to expose M15 and Mossad's involvement in the 7/7 event.
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conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Conspiracy analyst
Quote:
He worked in the CIA in Latin America as far as I know.
Staraker
Really? Got a source for that?
| Quote: | Another example of America's intrusion on to the British scene is worthy of note at this point. As revealed by the IOS (once more) of 8th January 2006, the London Transport Commissioner, one Bob Kiley - an American - after five years service, would be stepping down at the end of this month. However, the Managing Director of the London underground, one Tim O'Toole - an American - who had been favoured to become Kiley's successor, had apparently decided not to run for the job. As a result of this, the transport finance chief, Jay Walder - another American! - would now be one of two candidates for the job. On the face of it, an extraordinary situation - made even more intriguing when it is recalled that Bob Kiley had served in the CIA from 1963 to 1970, first as Manager of Intelligence Operations, and then as Executive Assistant to the notorious Richard Helms. (4)
To quote from the same IOS report: "Controversially, Mr Kiley will remain on TFL's payroll for three years after he steps down - earning £736,000 in consultancy fees. He will also be able to remain in the £2.I million house in Belgravia that was bought for him by TfL and where he lives rent free". This is certainly controversial! |
http://www.spectrezine.org/global/Mendes2.htm
Kiley worked under the tutelage of Richard Helms in the same period of history where Operation Northwoods was in operation.
On Richard Helms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Helms
He was also with Kissinger in that period who was responsible for Operation Condor in 1969
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/1952981.stm
| Quote: | | Documents recently released by the CIA, strengthen previously-held suspicions that Kissinger was actively involved in the establishment of Operation Condor, a covert plan involving six Latin American countries including Chile, to assassinate thousands of political opponents. |
What was going on in that historical period which were sponsored by the CIA whereby Kiley was Manager of Intelligence Operations?
Coup in Iraq 1963
Brazilian coup
Cuba
Kennedy Assasination
Greek colonels coup 1967
Black civil rights assasinations ML King, Malcolm X
Hundreds of other world situations which occurred as well...
Helms then resufaces in London and is also seen to be working in Berlin during the Olympic Games of 1972... during the 'hostage' crisis of Israeli athletes allegedly by Arab ...terrorists.
What does the job title Manager of Intelligence Operations mean for someone working for the CIA in its 'glory days'?
Like working for the ...RSPCA!
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Nick Cooper
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nick Cooper
Suspended
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| conspiracy analyst wrote: | | What does the job title Manager of Intelligence Operations mean for someone working for the CIA in its 'glory days'? |
Very interesting - I'll have to look further into that, as my past interest in CIA operations was in a later time period. Then again, we shouldn't let our imaginations run away with themselves. Kiley joined at the age of 27 or 28 and left seven years later, which although apparently fast-tracked through the management structure, does seem quite short. Obviously, a lot of dirty stuff going on in that time-frame, and no obvious reason (judging from the BBC's biography) for him leaving.
| Quote: | | Like working for the ...RSPCA! |
I did an office job for the RSPCA, I do an office job for someone else now - it has nothing to do with animals, but both require/d keyboard skills. Working for the CIA in the sense most people would think of it doesn't seem much like running the New York's Subway, let alone the London Underground, but management skills are universal.
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