Tatchell against (Ahmadinejad for) 911 Truth

[paul wright]

[rodin]

[jazds]

Err Peter Tatchell,

The man WITHOUT an agenda! And I wish he would go to the gym before he takes on Mugabe's fat goons again because it's about time someone arrested that racist, murdering, fascist cretin.

Seriously though I think anyone who holds up a politician (and we all do it or have done it) and says this guy is GREAT... needs his head examining. Politicians are falible human beings, it's why checks and ballances exist - the fewer of them the easier it is to cover up the abuse of power and / or get away with criminal acts.

Ahmadinejad has an agenda - probably most of the propaganda peddled about him in the West is faulse but this is the guy who almost started a hot war sending his speed boats out to kidnap a Royal Naval boarding party. Forget where they were at the time and consider how close that came to a shooting match and wether this guy made a rational decision in sending his fanatics out in speed boats armed to the teeth and desperate to get one over on the Brits!

Islamic extremists really do exist. Stalin really did kill more people than the Nazi's and we really did decided to go to war with Hitler rather than Stalin when Poland was invaded! Even though Stalin's genocide was already clocking 20 MILLION and it would have made more sense just to leave Hitler and Stalin to have their enevitable knockout match!

"Ahh but then Anglo-American bankers funded them both"... at least thats how it looks. Nothing is as it seems that's why we need to keep questioning. Lets only draw conclusions when we have enough facts.

[karlos]

Ahmedinejad is the elected president. But unlike the USA he is not the commander in chief nor is he in control of the Upper house of Lords which is run by the clergy.
So in actual fact he is the pragmatic one out of all of them.
The armed forces and revolutionary guards are actually battle hardened over many years and are warriors.
The clergy are the type of clergy who where pistols under their gowns.

So by people like Tatchell encouraging the war to start they are actually totally tits up on this issue.

Listen to what the president says, observe his deeds. He is a good and sensible leader made out by the zionist media to be a devil.
The clergy and the revolutionary guards are the actual problem and by weakening Ahmadinejad you are strengthening his domestic opponents who are far far worse.

I am really surprised that hard lefties like Tachell are wanting action against him yet ignore the obvious facist society in Saudi Arabia where for goodness sake women are not even allowed to drive.
Saudi Arabia executes and amputates more people than almost anywhere else and certainly does execute Gays.
Iran is a cultured society with filmakers and internet and pop music and as i said before it might not be as good as Norway or Singapore it is certainly far better than many many places.
Look North Korea why wasnt it attacked?
They after all showed they had a very small bomb.
And there they actually need liberation.
what about Burma?

Yet none of these places are of any interest because Iran has 200 years worth of oil and plenty more besides.

Tatchells campaign is in line with George Bush's wishes which seriously throws into question his recent visit to Russia.

[jazds]

[Thermate911]

[conspiracy analyst]

[jazds]

[jazds]

[conspiracy analyst]

[conspiracy analyst]

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2394663&fSectionId=641&fS etId=304


According to the above business report tobacco which was Zimbabwes main export currency product has gone into reverse.

Allowing foreign based transnationals to loot each states natural products without a penny for the local peoples is what the Structural Adjustment Programmes were all about when inaugurated in Sub-Saharan Africa. This sent life down to 35 years of age in countries like Zambia.

This worked quite well in the 1980's and early 1990's when Mugabe followed western policy. But when like Saddam he faced a total meltdown in a firesale of all government businesses and the experience of Argentina meant a turn to economic nationalism as a way of surviving from globalist internationalism which US economic policy is all about.

In the process he was obliged to expropriate all foreign owned business otherwise the country would break apart.

[paul wright]

Aren't people like Mugabe (long time) and Ahmadinejad placement leaders
Isn't their and their ilk's line false opposition to the western 'democracy' status quo a complete blind alley.
I notice a Burmese protestor commenting how in Burma public transport still operates and life goes on as usual despite the scenes in the streets
Actually all these despotic regimes, in Africa, Asia, Europe and the Americas could be brought down in a few days if the mass of the populace did nothing. If they stayed in their homes and their beds and did nothing not least go out to their work
If the society became completely non-functional through withdrawal of popular support the foot soldiers would soon be turning their guns on their officers who would quickly turn their guns on the senior commanders
Storming the Winter Palace or the Bastille is another false image of how to go about it

[xmasdale]

[jazds]

conspiracy analyst,

If I thought you were worth the effort I'd provide you with the basis to do your research...

Providing me with this link –

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2394663&fSectionId=641&fS etId=304

is a sad joke. If that is the basis of your knowledge you are a moron.

In regards to farm invasions, totally unjustified, most of the farms were purchased after the 1920's. The farmers built and worked them and made Zim the breadbasket of Africa, allowing for an increase in the population from a few million to 32 million over a short period of time. Life expectancy rose from 40 to 67. Today Zimbabwe is no longer the bread basket of Africa, it is a basket case economy, propped up by aid from the West, where life expectancy is a mere 34 years and a loaf of bread will set you back in the region of z$1.5 million. Your hero sure has done well!

As far as I'm concerted no one owns land other than the people, farmers are mere custodians. Farming is a skill that isn't easily learnt. It's a skill and a profession that you are born into, raised up with, tooled up to do. If you do what Mugabe did – using war veterans who were not even born when the bush war ended, to invade land he redistributed to his cronies - you end up with the same result.

As much as I admire Chavez and his much more reasonable land scheme, it is going the same way. I don’t say that from a bigoted point of view, I say it from an informed point of view. It shouldn’t take much intelligence to realise that if you break up large farms and distribute the land to people from cities who neither have the skills, money, material, or inclination to farm you end up with an inevitable result. Farming isn’t an easy job, farming the land with your bare hands is even harder. I wish the world wasn’t so complicated it would make life so much simpler but it is complicated and drawing conclusions should be based on more than bias and wishful thinking.

If you want to learn about Mugabe I suggest you go out there with an open mind, rather than cherry picking laughable reports from Mugabe's controlled press. Did you read this article? Surely you can see the biased reporting? This is the basis of my anger, you are either a complete moron; or a bigoted, racist twat who loves Mugabe because Mugabe don't love whites - this is a common factor in Mugabe lovers and I know this – unlike you - from first hand experience. That and the fact they have never lived there or know that Mugabe's victims are all races but its blacks who are suffering the most at his hands and most hate him with a vengeance.

What is happening is indefensible, which brings me back to you. What are you? A moron or a bigot who can't see past his own beliefs and will not read anything other than Mugabe's controlled press?

If the West is involved in any way in Zimabwe it is propping this dictator up. He could have easily been toppled but then there isn’t any oil. What is easier to manipulate, well run economies and stable democracies or corrupt dictators, eager to maintain control of their thrown? As they say WAKE UP but I will not hold my breath.

I hate Mugabe supporters. I look forward to meeting you. You can have a piece of my mind, it looks like you need it!

[karlos]

[karlos]

[jazds]

[karlos]

[karlos]

Iranian MPs condemn U.S. terrorist activities
TEHRAN, Sept. 29 (MNA) -- In a statement issued here on Saturday, 215 Iranian lawmakers condemned the terrorist activities of the U.S. army and its intelligence service CIA and called upon the United Nations to put an end to these crimes.
In light of the following reasons, the aggressor United States’ Army and its Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) support terrorism and are terrorists:

1- The U.S. nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II, and the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Balkan region;

2- Invasion and occupation of certain countries such as Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan;

3- Boundless financial and political support for the racist and aggressor regime of Israel, and cooperation with Israel in its terrorist operations against Palestinians, the Lebanese people, and other regional countries;

4- Numerous cases of illegal support for the former Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, and certain terrorist groups such as Mojahedin Khalgh Organization;

5-The training of Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorist groups in Afghanistan by CIA agents during the Soviet occupation of this country;

6- Slaughtering innocent people by daily bombardments of civilian areas in Afghanistan and Iraq, torturing ordinary people in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and a number of secret jails especially in Europe, ad infinitum.

In their statement the MPs have stated that these activities are classified as flagrant violations of the UN Charter and other international human rights treaties and war conventions and thus the organizations involved in such activities are considered terrorists.

“We, as the representatives of the great Iranian nation, condemn the U.S. Army’s acts of invasion and fomenting of insecurity in the region, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan, and call upon the United Nations to intervene and to halt the activities of the torture centers of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and the U.S. secret jails in various countries.”

[conspiracy analyst]

[Justin]

I sent this earlier today in response to Moeen's email to myself and others asking us to accept the current Iranian regime as a positive force in today's global politics:

[jazds]

[xmasdale]

[TonyGosling]

Wasn't it Ndabalingi Sithole rather than Albert?
Anyway the whole land reform buisiness was arranged as part of the Lancaster House agreement. Henry Kissinger personally took responsibility for sorting out the financial arrangements for the land reform programme part of the agreement and agreed to finance the compensation claims of the white farmers.
Trouble was after the settlement Kissinger kept saying the new government hadn't fulfilled its promises so he never came up with the compensation cash and the land reform situation and the promises of the new regime languished for years.
IMO Kissinger did the Lancaster House deal without any intention of keeping his side of the bargain and therefore creating a counter-revolutionary movement in Zim. Building up loads and loads of resentment and tension. The Western economic warfare programme against the Mugabe regime has been rather succesful. It was and is designed to make land reform compensation impossible for the country and fuel internal strife.

Iecho the question.......

Why are we discussing Zimbabwe in a thread about Iran?

[karlos]

Chenjerai "Hitler" Hunzvi
is a Zimbabwe political leader who died but is also worth mentioning.
He lived in eastern europe and was married to a Polish lady.
He was the driving for behind the siezure of lands from mainly JEWISH landowners. Which was the specific policy that resulted in sanctions against Zimbabwe.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Back to Iran
I posted this mail on sunday article in another topic but nobody seems to have responded so i am reposting it here.
This was also mentioned by one of our members on the George Galloway show on Sunday evening and i think it deserves a thorough disection.



This is Debra Cagan, although i cannot believe this is her photo that was all over the UK press. Because this does not look like any politician i recognise. Wearing what appears to be a Nazi style Iron Cross.
She looks like a character from the Rocky Horror Picture Show. But in fact she is a close Bush aide. To be honest it is not even clear she is a woman in this photo.

Quote Mail on Sunday:
Britsh MPs visiting the Pentagon to discuss America's stance on Iran and Iraq were shocked to be told by one of President Bush's senior officials Debra Cagan: "I hate all Iranians."
And she also accused Britain of "dismantling" the Anglo-US-led coalition in Iraq by pulling troops out of Basra too soon.
The all-party group of MPs say Debra Cagan, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Coalition Affairs to Defence Secretary Robert Gates, made the comments this month.
Hard line: Debra Cagan stunned the MPs with her comments

The six MPs were taken aback by the hardline approach of the Pentagon and in particular Ms Cagan, one of Mr Bush's foreign policy advisers.

She made it clear that although the US had no plans to attack Iran, it did not rule out doing so if the Iranians ignored warnings not to develop a nuclear bomb.

It was her tone when they met her on September 11 that shocked them most.

The MPs say that at one point she said: "In any case, I hate all Iranians."

Although it was an aside, it was not out of keeping with her general demeanour.

"She seemed more keen on saying she didn't like Iranians than that the US had no plans to attack Iran," said one MP. "She did say there were no plans for an attack but the tone did not fit the words."

Another MP said: "I formed the impression that some in America are looking for an excuse to attack Iran. It was very alarming."

Tory Stuart Graham, who was on the ten-day trip, would not discuss Ms Cagan but said: "It was very sobering to hear from the horse's mouth how the US sees the situation."

Ms Cagan, whose job involves keeping the coalition in Iraq together, also criticised Britain for pulling out troops.

"She said if we leave the south of Iraq, the Iranians will take it over," said one MP.

Another said: "She is very forceful and some of my colleagues were intimidated by her muscular style."

The MPs also saw Henry Worcester, Deputy Director of the Office of Iranian Affairs, who said he favoured talks with Iran.

The Pentagon denied Ms Cagan said she "hated" Iranians.

"She doesn't speak that way," said an official.

But when The Mail on Sunday spoke to four of the six MPs, three confirmed privately that she made the remark and one declined to comment. The other two could not be contacted

[jazds]

All the info above on Zimbabwe is faulse, not researched, wrong people, wrong tribes, etc.

Hitler hunzvi targeted white farms, not jewish!

The UK govt has handed over £51 million in land reford and over £500 million in redevelopment. Read the link I provided!

[ian neal]

Lost In Translation: Ahmadinejad And The Media

By Ali Quli Qarai

09/28/07 " ICH" -- - First I want to make some remarks about that now world-famous statement of President Ahmadinejad at Columbia: "We do not have homosexuals in Iran of the kind you have in your country." The American media conveniently ignored the second, and crucial, part of his sentence as something redundant.

Obviously he was not saying, We don't have any homosexuals whatsoever in Iran—something nobody in the world would believe, not even in Iran. And by implication, he was not telling his audience, I am a plain liar! —something which his audience at Columbia and the American media construed him to be saying.

What he was saying is that homosexuality in the US and homosexuality in Iran are issues which are as far apart from one another as two cultural universes possibly can be. They are so dissimilar that any attempt to relate them and bring them under a common caption would be misleading. "Homosexuality is not an issue in Iran as it is in present-day American society." This was, apparently what was saying in polite terms.

Homosexuality in the US is a omnipresent social and political issue which crops up in almost every discourse and debate pertaining to American society and politics. So much so that I think it was a major issue, if not the deciding factor, in the last two presidential elections which paved Bush's way to the White House and saddled the Democrats with defeat, because a large so-called conservative section of the American public (the red states) felt wary of the pro-gay liberalism of the Democratic Party.

By contrast, homosexuality is a non-issue in Iran and is considered an uncommon perversion (except as an occasional topic of jokes about a certain town). Prom the viewpoint of penal law, too, it is does not receive much attention as the requirements for a sentence (four eye-witnesses, who have actually seen the details of the act) are so astringent as to make punishment almost impossible. (It would be interesting to know how many have been accused of it during the last two decades)

By contrast adultery and homosexuality are legalized forms of behaviour in most of Europe and America, and regarded not as criminal acts but as perfectly acceptable forms of sexual behaviour and as legitimate natural human rights which need to be taught even to all Asian and African societies as well.

There was also a subtle hint in his remark that he wanted to move on from this topic to more serious and relevant matters, a point which would be obvious to anyone conversant with Persian language and culture (like his another hint concerning the disgraceful conduct of Columbia president, when, while formally inviting Columbia academics to Iran, he added that "You can rest assured that we will treat you in Iran with hundred percent respect."

Iranians, being linguistically a very sophisticated people, speak a lot in hints which are invisible to outsiders. Americans in comparison tend to be straightforward and often as primitive.

(In general the Persians, like other civilized societies, have developed the art of making and responding to harsh remarks in soft and friendly words. Americans, as Prof. Bollinger proved, have still much to learn from civilized nations concerning the civilities of civilized hostility.)

Mr Bollinger's hostility towards President Ahmadinejad had obviously been fed by devious translations and interpretations of his earlier—also world-famous—remarks about Israel and the Holocaust. As if, as one commentator has remarked, the professor had been watching only CNN and Fox News.

· Unfortunately for more than an year these remarks have given a ready-made excuse to his critics to demonize him and attack Iran's foreign policies. Although he has made some attempts (unjustifiably belated, I think, and not quite adequate) to clarify himself, we who hear these remarks have also an intellectual duty to ourselves and others to see exactly what he exactly meant.

It is a basic linguistic principle of civilized discourse that so long as there is an acceptable and upright interpretation for someone's remark, it should not be given a devious meaning. Moreover, as one of my teachers often says, it is easy to reject and denounce the statements of others, but the worthy task of every intelligent seeker is to try to understand people who hold different opinions. This is particular necessary when such statements originate in a different linguistic and cultural domain.

When Ahmadinejad repeated Ayatullah Khomeini's words that "Israel baayad az bayn beravad," (which literally means that Israel should cease to exist), what is critically important for understanding is to see how Iranian people understand these words of their president. I don't think any mature Iranian with some awareness of regional politics has ever thought that the late Leader of Iran, or the present president of the country, were advocating some kind of military objectives against Israel. By citing the example of the Soviet Union and the Apartheid regime in South Africa Ahmadinejad, too, has clarified what he meant by 'Israel ceasing to exist.' By the rules of civilized discourse, every speaker's clarification concerning what he means is authoritative as he is entitled, before all others, to state and clarify what he means by his statements. In this case, Ahmadinejad has also clarified as to how he thinks that my happen: a general referendum in undivided Palestine with the participation of its Arab, Jewish and Christian population.

As for his statement that the Holocaust in a myth, we all know that the word "myth" has several meanings in the dictionary. One of its meanings is "A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology" (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). Thus a myth is not something necessarily untrue and Ahmadinejad has not denied outright that the Holocaust did occur, although he seems to have—what he considers to be legitimate—doubts about its exact extent, doubts which are prone to be strengthened, rightly or otherwise, by attempts to persecute or prosecute scholars whose research leads them to conclusions different from main-current historiography. What he basically appears to question is that the Holocaust should be made an ideological tool for the pursuit of unfair and inhuman objectives—something which most of us acknowledge has happened in the case of Palestine. Why should the people of Palestine be made to pay the price for the guilt and failings of Europe? He asks. I think that is a legitimate question.

The savants of the media are free to interpret Ahmadinejad's statement with the purpose of demonizing him and excoriating Iran, but there are better and alternate paths for those who strive for understanding and peace between nations, and to an objective like this should institutions like universities, including Columbia, contribute.

I hope that Mr Bollinger will advance a courageous apology to Mr Ahmadinejad and take advantage of his standing invitation for continuing the exchange of ideas with academic circles in Iran. Iranians generally are a large hearted people, like most Americans, and I hope the bitterness which has arisen from the unfortunate event of the past week will soon be forgotten with the sincere efforts of well-meaning intellectuals and officials on both sides. I cannot think of any other way in which good will between these nations as well as the good repute of an outstanding institution of higher learning such as Columbia can be salvaged.

Ali Quli Qarai is an Iranian scholar. He has published several books, including a translation of the Quran. He can be reached at altawhid@gmail.com

[karlos]

[karlos]

[paul wright]

It's simple, Stelios. There are degrees of both stupidity, mendacity and corruption
Tatchell is both halfway ok and not -ok
Ahmadinejad is elected and so is Bush. The US spread Aids via the Hep B vaccine at the same time the WHO was spreading it via the smallpox vaccine.
There are no, or very few, good systems of governance. They are all corrupt and in league
There are no 'good' governments that I can think of, they are all part of a globalist control interplay as far as I can see, and a new world governmentless order is required
ps I notice the photo displays Tatchell's organisation Outrage active against the Saudi regime